Read The Forum Rules: We have a clear set of rules to keep the forum running smoothly. Click here to review them.

Post Reply 
The Jordan Peterson thread
Author Message
Leonard D Neubache Offline
Owl
******
Gold Member

Posts: 12,682
Joined: Mar 2016
Reputation: 211
Post: #1401
RE: Jordan B Peterson: A Real Intellectual
Generally speaking, in historical terms we still need to have tens of millions of undesirables genocided by the left before the pendulum shifts back to the Right.

You might see how with the benefit of hindsight the undesirable class aren't entirely interested in playing landfill on the course to a gentle return of the pendulum to the center.

Make no mistake. The Left is not in retreat. It's still merely losing momentum.

God demands of Man responsibility. God demands of Woman vulnerability. These are their curse and blessing alike. Libertianism is to Man as Feminism is to Woman.
(This post was last modified: 05-06-2018 07:54 AM by Leonard D Neubache.)
05-06-2018 07:53 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
remarkable vigour Offline
Sparrow

Posts: 58
Joined: Mar 2016
Reputation: 0
Post: #1402
RE: Jordan B Peterson: A Real Intellectual
(05-06-2018 07:28 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I caution you against advising people on what/who is/isn't a sham when your post/rep count is so low. Just as many people as not will assume you're shilling.

OK, fair enough.

Three things indicate he is not opposition.

1. Patroen account to the tune of 70,000 a month. Many people are willingly giving him money because they think they have gained something.

2. One million in book sales.

3. 500 odd, young men stay behind at every stage of his lecture tour to tell him he has made a difference to them. This cannot be faked and will be a small subset because most people will not be able to attend for a number of reasons.

Quote:In response to Matsufubu's question this is an important possibility that should not be underrated. The red pill can take you down some very depressing roads that you will seek any excuse to turn back from, and the teachings of a popular messiah figure can serve as a "load previous saved game" option.

Whether people are happy with Peterson's path on a personal level will depend on that they expect to gain from it. In the simplest terms possible you have to ask a guy "what do you really actually want"?

Most young guys are so conditioned by society that they are literally incapable of coming to grips with this simple question, but if you stripped away the brainwashing of what they're supposed to want then you would get the same answer as was ever given since time immemorial.

They want to get laid and get paid.

Why else has this forum become a Mecca for disillusioned men trying to break free from their marxist social programming?

I agree with all of this.


Quote:Peterson's 12 rules? Honestly to me they seem like "The guide on how to be a better slave on the Western plantation." It's like he's trying desperately to convince men "act like you're living in a Norman Rockwell painting and I promise you, 1950's America will return".

Well, no. The decline is in its advanced stages. Following these rules is basically going to turn you into an easy mark for the growing number of predators of all shapes, sizes and stripes that now lurk within our societies. "Tell the truth, or a least don't lie"? Super if you've already got tenure. Fucked if you don't. Guess which category JP falls in to?

And this is what I don't agree with.

We, here are familiar with the arguments. The general public don't even know anything is wrong.

Peterson is a gateway drug into understanding society.

And guess what, when these men self improve they will be better able to impose their will on society, (but not necessarily in ways Peterson will approve of).
05-06-2018 08:19 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 2 users Like remarkable vigour's post:
PapayaTapper, Dream Medicine
rotekz Offline
Pelican
****

Posts: 1,581
Joined: Aug 2015
Reputation: 15
Post: #1403
RE: Jordan B Peterson: A Real Intellectual
(05-06-2018 07:45 AM)Belgrano Wrote:  How often does JBP talk about Vox Day?
How often is Vox Day talking about JBP?
Is it really surprising that JP ignores what Vox has been saying? He only stands to lose by engaging him. Peterson is a coward and will avoid directly answering any criticism that hits the mark, instead brushing it aside with "Ooh look! Misogynistic Alt-Right Nazis!" (or words to that effect) as he did with Tim Piggott's excellent article.


As for Vox, he will jump on a matter of interest and devote much time to it for a period. The premise that he shouldn't is a distraction from what he is actually saying.
After the Alex Jones appearance on Monday it's likely he will go back to his normal varied output. Unless of course there is the unlikely event of Peterson engaging with him.


(05-06-2018 07:45 AM)Belgrano Wrote:  History doesn't repeat itself, but it rhymes.
The left has overplayed their hand, and anyone with eyes can see that the far-right is just waiting for the moment the knives come out, with both sides secretly itching for civil war, hoping to put an end to "the problem" once and for all.
Some are just waiting, and some are even actively working on bringing about the final confrontation.

Civil war is inevitable thanks to demographic changes and there is a good reason for wanting it to be sooner rather than later. These demographic trends are stacked against patriots and MAGA folk (predominantly white) with their relatively low birthrate. The longer the war takes to happen the worse it will be for them. America will split up within a few decades and it will not be in a peaceful manner. Trump can only delay it.
05-06-2018 08:50 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 2 users Like rotekz's post:
Enoch, Off The Reservation
Teedub Offline
Crow
*****
Gold Member

Posts: 5,456
Joined: Jan 2013
Reputation: 86
Post: #1404
RE: Jordan B Peterson: A Real Intellectual
Mate, "Peterson is a coward"? Do you have any idea how difficult (and intimidating) it is to do what he did to Cathy Newman, and I'm sure countless others? Roosh got destroyed by a lightweight in Dr Oz, and Roosh is really bright and brave. Newman is an Oxford-educated, professional media interrogator and Peterson wrecked her brain...gaining hate from the liberal-left in the process. He's a beacon of truth in a profession where 90% of his peers disagree, vehemently and angrily, with him. He might avoid what you said he does, but he's got a life to live. He's not perfect, who is? It's easy to call people out and throw stuff at them when you're a nobody in comparison, with little to lose, and they're a somebody with everything to lose. For the record, I do somewhat agree with Leonard that a lot of his advice is essentially 'how to be a better worker drone'... but a lot of that is clearly much needed, as evidenced by the thousands of men who have written to him with thanks.

The things you own end up owning you.
05-06-2018 09:19 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 14 users Like Teedub's post:
Dream Medicine, TooFineAPoint, Buck Wild, debeguiled, paullyFIRE, PapayaTapper, Atlanta Man, LeBeau, StrikeBack, Nevsky, C-Note, DJ-Matt, armenia4ever, getdownonit
rotekz Offline
Pelican
****

Posts: 1,581
Joined: Aug 2015
Reputation: 15
Post: #1405
RE: Jordan B Peterson: A Real Intellectual
(05-06-2018 09:19 AM)Teedub Wrote:  Mate, "Peterson is a coward"? Do you have any idea how difficult (and intimidating) it is to do what he did to Cathy Newman, and I'm sure countless others? Roosh got destroyed by a lightweight in Dr Oz, and Roosh is really bright and brave.
Give me a break! If Peterson can't debate his ideology with a knowledgeable and skilled opponent then he is a cowardly fraud. Leftist hallucinating TV presenters don't count.

As for the little man versus big man argument it's time to watch this again:



05-06-2018 09:32 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Teedub Offline
Crow
*****
Gold Member

Posts: 5,456
Joined: Jan 2013
Reputation: 86
Post: #1406
RE: Jordan B Peterson: A Real Intellectual
You're being intellectually dishonest by implying Newman is just some 'TV Presenter' in the mould of a Holly Willoughby or whatever. That video you posted applies to Peterson cultists, not people who simply find value in his work - and don't expect him to be a leader of their specific 'ism'. If you're an ethnic nationalist, then no, Peterson isn't the guy for you. That's fine, just don't discredit the things he has done / is doing against mutual enemies.

The things you own end up owning you.
05-06-2018 10:02 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 4 users Like Teedub's post:
PapayaTapper, TooFineAPoint, Buck Wild, Dream Medicine
PapayaTapper Away
Crow
*****
Gold Member

Posts: 5,250
Joined: Mar 2014
Reputation: 152
Post: #1407
RE: Jordan B Peterson: A Real Intellectual
When I first moved to CA 25 years ago there were, as there are almost every year, wildfires. When family back home saw the news they saw

[Image: DQZBKutV4AIuWDY.jpg]

Every time there's a fire, a mud slide, an earthquake, or any other disaster Id inevitably get calls, especially from my mother because to her it looked like the entire state was on fire. Because it looks like it is when it fills the screen

This is what I like to call the "pin hole effect". When viewed through the lens the MSM uses it looks like the state is in fact on fire when in fact its not.

[Image: California-counties-map-ru.png]

Even when the worst of the worst wildfires occur you could not physically draw a dot small enough on the map above to be in actual scale of the affected areas. A few thousand acres is imperceptibly small .

In 25 years Ive never seen a wildfire in person

Yes the West, and the US specifically has problems that need addressing. But where I disagree is at what stage and degree they are to the extent that the only way to save it is via bloodbath.

Jordan Peterson isn't going to be cranking out soldiers for the imminent war. And Im glad because we dont need soldiers. There is no imminent war. What we need are self reliant independent thinkers, innovators, and entrepreneurs. To Make America Great Again we dont need to burn it down first. Productive citizenry is what we need,

I look around and see a lot reason to be optimistic for the future. If you step away from the pinholes and look around at a bigger world there's a lot to like. When you see the massive fires on TV this is the reality for the majority of the state

[Image: cyclists-at-santa-monica-california-usa-...66d82f.jpg]

In case its not obvious Im using California metaphorically as the West

Im not saying ignore the barbarians at the gate or that the threat doesn't loom. Im saying that I dont see reason to panic.

An increased number of hopeful, self reliant yet vigilant, young men is a great development

_______________________________________
- Does She Have The "Happy Gene" ?
-Inversion Therapy
-Let's lead by example


"Leap, and the net will appear". John Burroughs

"The big question is whether you are going to be able to say a hearty yes to your adventure."
Joseph Campbell
(This post was last modified: 05-06-2018 11:06 AM by PapayaTapper.)
05-06-2018 10:34 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 8 users Like PapayaTapper's post:
Soundbyte, TooFineAPoint, debeguiled, speculator, StrikeBack, AneroidOcean, Jetset, Tactician
scorpion Offline
Ostrich
****
Gold Member

Posts: 2,626
Joined: Sep 2012
Reputation: 264
Post: #1408
RE: Jordan B Peterson: A Real Intellectual
It should be noted that Vox Day's current gamma meltdown over Jordan Peterson was ostensibly initiated by Peterson's refusal to go suffienctly hard on the JQ. However, it was less than a year ago that Vox had almost an identical gamma meltdown over Andrew Anglin, for almost the exact opposite reason: going too hard on the JQ. According to Vox, being too soft on the JQ marks one as being "not of the right", while at the same time going too hard on the JQ question also marks one as being "not of the right. One could therefore be forgiven for assuming that Vox's definition of being "of the right" is wherever Vox Day is currently standing.

In reality, of course, it's obvious to anyone who's paying attention what's going on here. This is the same guy who's been engaged in a decade-long internet feud with John Scalzi because it drives him absolutely bonkers that Scalzi (whom he holds in contempt) is the more successful author of the two. He's also the same guy who tried to destroy Gab.ai with lawfare because his ego couldn't stand random anons on there talking shit about him. He actually expected that Andrew Torba would give him special censorial privileges over Gab user posts - and got extremely butthurt when that didn't happen and then tried to burn the entire project down in spite. And perhaps most laughably, this is the same guy who regards himself as the greatest and most talented fantasy writer since Tolkien. The fact that he's only sold a few thousand copies of his magnum opus is, well - inconvenient. And we are to be assured that his vendetta against George R.R. Martin and the massive success he's enjoyed is also entirely coincidental and unrelated to Vox's frustrated literary ambitions.

Vox's traffic has dropped off considerably in the past year as more people have recognized him for exactly what he is: a gamma male blogger with an outrageously oversized ego who runs a weird little internet cult. Is he smart? Certainly. Does he have some interesting things to say? Absolutely. But that's it. He's not a Dark Lord. He's not a uniquely brilliant arbiter of truth and justice in the world. He's just a dorky guy with a blog. It's both painful and hilarious to see Vox's minions parroting his latest pronouncements - almost always verbatim - as if it's some truth they themselves have long recognized. If you had taken a poll a month ago of Vox readers, I bet 80% would have been neutral to positive toward Peterson. But now that the fearless leader has changed course - well, of course they've always had a problem with the man. Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia!

Vox is painfully insecure about his intelligence and his influence, and can't stand to see others moving in the sphere of the alt-right who are lauded for these qualities ahead of himself. Peterson is clearly more intelligent and well-spoken than Vox, and has achieved enormous success in a relatively short period of time. Meanwhile, Vox's "genius" has gone largely unheralded (except by his cultist minions with whom he has a love-hate relationship - one can't help but notice the clear contempt he holds for them as they prostrate themselves before him in his comments). And Vox couldn't stand the fact that Anglin's Daily Stormer was having massive influence on the Alt Right while he was relatively ignored. So he lashed out against both men in naked gamma rage. It's pathetic to witness. It's even more pathetic to see Vox cultists like MMX2010 and rotekz parroting Vox's bitter gamma rationalizations like gospel.

A normal person would look at the sum of Peterson's work and ask themselves: is the man doing more good tham he is harm? The honest appraisal from where we stand would be unequivocally yes. He's clearly a counter-cultural figure at a time when the dominant culture is decadent, corrupt and perverted to the core. He's helped thousands of young men make better sense of their lives. He's doing his part to destroy mainstream media and traditional academic hegemony. The enemy of your enemy is your friend. He is clearly our friend.

But this doesn't apply to Vox. Because Vox doesn't ask, "Is the man doing more harm than good?" Vox asks, "Is this man being recognized ahead of me in my own sphere?" If they answer is yes, then Vox starts to get triggered and his gamma rage starts to boil. Eventually it boils over and you get a meltdown like this. Predictable as it is pathetic. When are people going to stop taking him seriously as anything but a blogger?

"For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.” - Romans 8:18
(This post was last modified: 05-06-2018 10:42 AM by scorpion.)
05-06-2018 10:40 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 37 users Like scorpion's post:
PapayaTapper, Leonard D Neubache, Matt Forney, HermeticAlly, Buck Wild, Teedub, TooFineAPoint, Matsufubu, debeguiled, Isaac Jordan, demolition, paullyFIRE, armenia4ever, Malone, Easy_C, Atlanta Man, LeBeau, Nevsky, StrikeBack, ChefAllDay, Xenophon, Benoit, Akwesi, ball dont lie, Thersites, Dream Medicine, DJ-Matt, DamienCasanova, Dismal Operator, Solus, RaccoonFace, cato, Grizzly Bear, Jones, Kinder, Saweeep, Tactician
churros Offline
Banned

Posts: 1,159
Joined: Dec 2015
Post: #1409
RE: Jordan B Peterson: A Real Intellectual
(05-06-2018 09:32 AM)rotekz Wrote:  
(05-06-2018 09:19 AM)Teedub Wrote:  Mate, "Peterson is a coward"? Do you have any idea how difficult (and intimidating) it is to do what he did to Cathy Newman, and I'm sure countless others? Roosh got destroyed by a lightweight in Dr Oz, and Roosh is really bright and brave.
Give me a break! If Peterson can't debate his ideology with a knowledgeable and skilled opponent then he is a cowardly fraud. Leftist hallucinating TV presenters don't count.

As for the little man versus big man argument it's time to watch this again:




Why is this guy imitating Molyneux's cringe diction? Molyneux is also a "fucking leaf" by the way. And that Vox video was just garbage.

You've made your point mate, put it to bed.
05-06-2018 10:42 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Blaster Offline
Ostrich
****
Gold Member

Posts: 1,955
Joined: Oct 2012
Reputation: 26
Post: #1410
RE: Jordan B Peterson: A Real Intellectual
(05-06-2018 07:28 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  Why else has this forum become a Mecca for disillusioned men trying to break free from their marxist social programming?

For the record, I don't consider myself to have ever been seriously disillusioned. What brought me here was acceptance of my own failures and shortcomings and a desire to improve.
05-06-2018 10:46 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 3 users Like Blaster's post:
PapayaTapper, Leonard D Neubache, Dream Medicine
Leonard D Neubache Offline
Owl
******
Gold Member

Posts: 12,682
Joined: Mar 2016
Reputation: 211
Post: #1411
RE: Jordan B Peterson: A Real Intellectual
(05-06-2018 08:19 AM)remarkable vigour Wrote:  ...
Three things indicate he is not opposition.

1. Patroen account to the tune of 70,000 a month. Many people are willingly giving him money because they think they have gained something.

2. One million in book sales.

3. 500 odd, young men stay behind at every stage of his lecture tour to tell him he has made a difference to them. This cannot be faked and will be a small subset because most people will not be able to attend for a number of reasons.

...

And this is what I don't agree with.

We, here are familiar with the arguments. The general public don't even know anything is wrong.

Peterson is a gateway drug into understanding society.

And guess what, when these men self improve they will be better able to impose their will on society, (but not necessarily in ways Peterson will approve of).

The first two can be faked but the last one in indeed indicative of genuine support.

You have valid points about tapping the normies that feel something is not right and in theory self improvement is all good and well. Again, the problem is that without establishing the why (and 'for it's own sake' is not good enough) you're going to end up with a lot of highly organised guys who in a few years neatly tie a noose, leave an apology note out for the attending ambulance crew, straighten the magazines on their coffee table and then hang themselves.

The rot in our society does not exist because men's rooms are messy and their savings accounts are low. It exists because we have lost our roots to our ancestors and no longer cherish and fight for such brotherhood as exists to bond men to the society they are tasked with protecting and policing.

I said it a few pages back. Peterson will never have a map to male happiness because he (I would bet) doesn't have single drinking or hunting buddy, and sure as hell doesn't have a guy that will turn up with a shovel, no questions asked.

The legions of men wandering like lost souls through our civilization are not going to find fulfillment in self improvement. Not in my opinion. They might waste up to a decade on it before they find that out, though.

Look, I'm certainly not on the Vox train, but I think guys buying Peterson's books need to take his work with a grain of salt. Peterson is many things but he's not a happy man and evidence points to this being the case for decades. In my experience you should either aim for happiness or a greater purpose (or both if you can manage it). I don't see that Peterson provides a map toward either.

God demands of Man responsibility. God demands of Woman vulnerability. These are their curse and blessing alike. Libertianism is to Man as Feminism is to Woman.
(This post was last modified: 05-06-2018 11:04 AM by Leonard D Neubache.)
05-06-2018 10:55 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 5 users Like Leonard D Neubache's post:
BlueMark, PapayaTapper, Buck Wild, Matsufubu, Fortis
PapayaTapper Away
Crow
*****
Gold Member

Posts: 5,250
Joined: Mar 2014
Reputation: 152
Post: #1412
RE: Jordan B Peterson: A Real Intellectual
^But for those young men lacking any direction he's at least giving them one. A step away from the vacuum of nihilism is a step in the right direction. Happiness and higher purpose are only available to the hopeful.

_______________________________________
- Does She Have The "Happy Gene" ?
-Inversion Therapy
-Let's lead by example


"Leap, and the net will appear". John Burroughs

"The big question is whether you are going to be able to say a hearty yes to your adventure."
Joseph Campbell
05-06-2018 11:13 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 9 users Like PapayaTapper's post:
Leonard D Neubache, BlueMark, Buck Wild, Matsufubu, Atlanta Man, Nevsky, Benoit, Dream Medicine, billbudsocket
Leonard D Neubache Offline
Owl
******
Gold Member

Posts: 12,682
Joined: Mar 2016
Reputation: 211
Post: #1413
RE: Jordan B Peterson: A Real Intellectual
Back from the ledge is a fair enough direction to start with.

I suppose time will tell where (if anywhere) he attempts to drag them from there. Let's just say I have serious concerns about him herding his followers back down Boomer lane. He's already told his followers what they're not allowed to think which would be less disturbing if it weren't for the messianic regard so many of them hold him in.

God demands of Man responsibility. God demands of Woman vulnerability. These are their curse and blessing alike. Libertianism is to Man as Feminism is to Woman.
(This post was last modified: 05-06-2018 11:22 AM by Leonard D Neubache.)
05-06-2018 11:22 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 3 users Like Leonard D Neubache's post:
Buck Wild, PapayaTapper, Fortis
HermeticAlly Offline
Woodpecker
**

Posts: 406
Joined: Jan 2016
Reputation: 8
Post: #1414
RE: Jordan B Peterson: A Real Intellectual
I think Scorpion summed things up pretty well re: Vox Day. The atmosphere around Vox has become increasingly toxic over the last few years, and it's hard to avoid the conclusion that he's a deeply insecure person with a lot of negative attributes. He's a genuinely talented writer and editor, if he focused his energy on those activities he'd have a lot more to show for it. But he wastes a ton of time and effort on the petty grudges and disputes mentioned above, and this creates an overwhelmingly negative of the impression of the guy in 2018. Plus he's maddening inconsistent in how he touts one thing about Jews in arguing with Anglin, and another in feuding with Peterson.

There are real criticisms of Peterson, some of which Vox touches on, but it's hard for me to muster up any reaction other than a shrug and "so what?" Peterson isn't valuable to the cultural war because of what he thinks about Jews, but because he's a conspicuous enemy of SJWs and cultural marxists, and pushes young men in particular toward self improvement. I think the weird little New Atheist-esque cult that's popped up around him is troubling, and should be called out, but there's a lot more good than bad around Peterson. If you only support figures with absolute ideological purity, you're quickly left with no allies.
05-06-2018 11:41 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 6 users Like HermeticAlly's post:
TooFineAPoint, Buck Wild, Matsufubu, Leonard D Neubache, Dream Medicine, Benoit
PapayaTapper Away
Crow
*****
Gold Member

Posts: 5,250
Joined: Mar 2014
Reputation: 152
Post: #1415
RE: Jordan B Peterson: A Real Intellectual
^^I agree but I think that its the intellectually weak that will become followers anyway and I'd rather it be him than say ... the commies. Nature abhors even intellectual vacuums

Leaders are always a minority and by definition always break out from under the shadow of their mentor. That's where I think his effects will be meaning full in the long run. But yes...only time will tell

_______________________________________
- Does She Have The "Happy Gene" ?
-Inversion Therapy
-Let's lead by example


"Leap, and the net will appear". John Burroughs

"The big question is whether you are going to be able to say a hearty yes to your adventure."
Joseph Campbell
(This post was last modified: 05-06-2018 11:43 AM by PapayaTapper.)
05-06-2018 11:42 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 1 user Likes PapayaTapper's post:
Leonard D Neubache
Blaster Offline
Ostrich
****
Gold Member

Posts: 1,955
Joined: Oct 2012
Reputation: 26
Post: #1416
RE: Jordan B Peterson: A Real Intellectual
(05-06-2018 12:50 AM)rotekz Wrote:  Vox may be unpopular with some but his latest post and accompanying periscope are right on topic and summarise a lot that is evidently wrong with Peterson and his book.

Vox is a really smart guy and very logical thinker, but he's hardly infallible. In particular he tends to get overconfident when it comes to anything related to science, and also seems to deliberately seek out controversial positions. In this case:

1. I'd be skeptical of Vox's conclusion here. Is he judging Peterson and his career or just the book. If it's the book, obviously the book is more philosophical. But (unlike Day) Peterson's career does include real scientific work as well as a clinical practice.

2. Peterson is gamma. This is a giant steaming load of bullshit. You could make a convincing case that Peterson is a confident and high-achieving Delta, but Vox's argument for JBP being gamma is just facile.

3. Peterson ... has suffered ... is why he believes life and evil are defined by suffering. This could be true, but seems to ignore that Peterson actually has a justification for why he focuses on suffering: specifically that is something everyone can agree is real. Therefore it works as a valid first principle on which to base rational arguments. Vox has no excuse for failing to understand this and instead going for the ad hominem cheap shot. It's sheer laziness.

4. True, JBP is not a man of the right.

5. Peterson's Christianity is arguable and hardly something you can sum up in one bullet point or a few minutes of a livestream.

6. I'd definitely have to disagree on whether JBP understand's evil, but without the actual supporting arguments I don't know what Vox is getting at here.

7. Jordan Peterson doesn't entirely believe in individual responsibility. These are just words that sound contrarian but don't actually mean anything. Of course JBP doesn't "entirely" believe in individual responsibility. No one believes "entirely" in anything, except for the ideologically possessed.

8. Jordan Peterson does not know what chaos is. Not sure how to respond to this tbh. JBP's understanding of chaos seems as robust as anyone I've encountered.

9. Jordan Peterson does not follow his own advice. Like #7, this one is just nitpicking technicalities to rhetorically imply hypocrisy without actually having to make the case for it. I could not be less interested in the precise degree to which anyone perfectly adheres to their own advice. No one is perfect and failing to maintain absolute congruence with all values and advice at all times under all circumstances does not make someone a hypocrite.

10. Jordan Peterson does not have a good grasp of either science or history. JBP's grasp of science far exceeds Vox Day's. His grasp of history probably depends on which aspects of history you decide to focus. the latter is something that might be worth debating, as no one knows and understands all of history.

11. Jordan Peterson's perspective is shaped by Holocaustianity.. This might be true but it's also supplemented by actual research into the realities of WW2 and the holocaust not to mention Stalin, Marxism and Communism. I don't really see this to be a major flaw with Peterson's content.

12. Jordan Peterson is a moderate who worships balance. True but also not a problem. Frankly, Vox is way more moderate than he pretends to be. He comes off as an extremist by taking stubborn, uncompromising conservative positions against crazy far-left sci-fi feminists and manlets who shit themselves at that kind of direct confrontation.
(This post was last modified: 05-06-2018 11:52 AM by Blaster.)
05-06-2018 11:46 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 8 users Like Blaster's post:
Teedub, TooFineAPoint, PapayaTapper, Leonard D Neubache, Nevsky, Dream Medicine, Benoit, scotian
RexImperator Offline
Crow
*****
Gold Member

Posts: 5,575
Joined: May 2013
Reputation: 27
Post: #1417
RE: Jordan B Peterson: A Real Intellectual
Quote:Jordan Peterson is a man who is psychologically scarred by tragedy. This is probably why he believes both life and evil are primarily defined by suffering. He has really suffered and he genuinely merits an amount of pity.


I find this to be a slightly odd one from Vox, who is a proclaimed Christian nationalist. I mean, suffering is at the heart or crux if you will (look at the crucifixion) of Christianity. Though, that emphasis might be more of a Catholic thing and Vox is Protestant.

Bella, horrida bella
et Thybrim multo spumantem sanguine cerno
05-06-2018 12:25 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
debeguiled Offline
Peacock
******
Gold Member

Posts: 7,915
Joined: Aug 2014
Reputation: 117
Post: #1418
RE: Jordan B Peterson: A Real Intellectual
At the moment, Vox Day is at least successful in turning the Jordan Peterson thread into the Vox Day/Importance of I.Q. thread.

“That sig BTW is a very asinine anti-family anti-parent quote. You live in a country where 40% of children grow up without a biological father, yet somehow “the greatest burden a child must bear is the unlived life of its parents”? Sorry but this is fruity Boomer nonsense.”

911
05-06-2018 12:51 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 5 users Like debeguiled's post:
Buck Wild, demolition, PapayaTapper, Genghis Khan, Off The Reservation
Easy_C Offline
Crow
*****

Posts: 4,531
Joined: Oct 2014
Reputation: 30
Post: #1419
RE: Jordan B Peterson: A Real Intellectual
(05-06-2018 12:25 PM)RexImperator Wrote:  
Quote:Jordan Peterson is a man who is psychologically scarred by tragedy. This is probably why he believes both life and evil are primarily defined by suffering. He has really suffered and he genuinely merits an amount of pity.


I find this to be a slightly odd one from Vox, who is a proclaimed Christian nationalist. I mean, suffering is at the heart or crux if you will (look at the crucifixion) of Christianity. Though, that emphasis might be more of a Catholic thing and Vox is Protestant.

Which is kind of hilarious because the Protestant revolution was heavily supported by Jewish interests at the time.
05-06-2018 04:35 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
RexImperator Offline
Crow
*****
Gold Member

Posts: 5,575
Joined: May 2013
Reputation: 27
Post: #1420
RE: Jordan B Peterson: A Real Intellectual
Quote:At the moment, Vox Day is at least successful in turning the Jordan Peterson thread into the Vox Day/Importance of I.Q. thread.

So you're saying... JBP has been AMOG'd Wink

Bella, horrida bella
et Thybrim multo spumantem sanguine cerno
05-06-2018 04:48 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 1 user Likes RexImperator's post:
debeguiled
debeguiled Offline
Peacock
******
Gold Member

Posts: 7,915
Joined: Aug 2014
Reputation: 117
Post: #1421
RE: Jordan B Peterson: A Real Intellectual
(05-06-2018 04:48 PM)RexImperator Wrote:  
Quote:At the moment, Vox Day is at least successful in turning the Jordan Peterson thread into the Vox Day/Importance of I.Q. thread.

So you're saying... JBP has been AMOG'd Wink

What do you call it when someone you pay no attention to trashes you at length?

Gammog'd

“That sig BTW is a very asinine anti-family anti-parent quote. You live in a country where 40% of children grow up without a biological father, yet somehow “the greatest burden a child must bear is the unlived life of its parents”? Sorry but this is fruity Boomer nonsense.”

911
05-06-2018 04:52 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 6 users Like debeguiled's post:
Buck Wild, demolition, PapayaTapper, Leonard D Neubache, StrikeBack, Benoit
Enoch Offline
Ostrich
****

Posts: 2,440
Joined: Nov 2015
Reputation: 12
Post: #1422
RE: Jordan B Peterson: A Real Intellectual
I very rarely disagree with Vox Day but he is completely devoid of LEADERSHIP skills.

All he had to do was say he doesn't agree with JP on everything, but JP's message and existence is, at the moment, a NET BENEFIT to society.

If JP starts to tell young men to man up and marry these sluts maybe I will change my tune.

It's simply not possible to dive into the JQ and keep your platform.
05-06-2018 05:18 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 9 users Like Enoch's post:
debeguiled, demolition, PapayaTapper, Leonard D Neubache, Benoit, Thomas Jackson, armenia4ever, scotian, Off The Reservation
Genghis Khan Offline
Pelican
****

Posts: 1,223
Joined: Mar 2013
Reputation: 56
Post: #1423
RE: Jordan B Peterson: A Real Intellectual
(05-03-2018 10:58 AM)getdownonit Wrote:  
(05-03-2018 10:54 AM)Genghis Khan Wrote:  
(05-03-2018 04:27 AM)TooFineAPoint Wrote:  Campbell or maybe Eliade.

Eliade is next on the reading list for me. I believe both Campbell and Peterson reference him. Eliade, Cooraswamy, Guenon, the Traditionalists. Much reading to do!

Recommendations for a good starting point for reading Eliade?

A couple of days late, but here's my reading list (took it from JBP's website):

* The Sacred and The Profane
* Shamanism
* Myth and Reality
* The Forge and The Crucible
* Myths, Dreams and Mysteries
* History of Religious Ideas, Vol. 1,2, and 3

https://jordanbpeterson.com/reading-list/great-books/

I'm realizing that with authors like Eliade, Campbell, Jung, Peterson, etc - there is no real good starting point. The concepts they discuss (myth, reality, religion, psychology, history) are so complex you might as well start somewhere and just keep going. Some of their books are grand ideas, other books fill in the details. Fun stuff!

I'm noticing it myself with Campbell's work - I started with The Hero with a 1000 Faces (grand idea), and am currently going through his Masks of God series (details). Realistically, I'll probably have to go full circle and go back to The Hero with a 1000 Faces book one day.

I see this type of knowledge as a circle, you have to read bits here and there and slowly fill up the patches. And at some point you reach the beginning again. I had a similar experience with reading history, first it was just tidbits here and there (e.g. Mongol invasion and empire, where my username came from, Roman history, the Silk Road, etc), then I read heavier books like Spengler's Decline of the West (grand idea + was actually pleasantly surprised Campbell referenced it) and finally it all clicked into a whole paradigm of history. Now as I dig even deeper, I'm using the grand ideas as a reference for the details I'm reading (as in "what do these details mean, why, and how do they connect with the rest of history").

Good luck!

Not happening. - redbeard in regards to ETH flippening BTC

#TeamRoboDoc
05-06-2018 05:21 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 2 users Like Genghis Khan's post:
PapayaTapper, Dream Medicine
Abelard Lindsey Offline
Woodpecker
**

Posts: 333
Joined: Aug 2015
Reputation: 1
Post: #1424
RE: Jordan B Peterson: A Real Intellectual
Please don't misunderstand me. There is a lot I like about Vox, even when I disagree with him.
05-06-2018 05:51 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
rotekz Offline
Pelican
****

Posts: 1,581
Joined: Aug 2015
Reputation: 15
Post: #1425
RE: Jordan B Peterson: A Real Intellectual
(05-06-2018 05:18 PM)Enoch Wrote:  It's simply not possible to dive into the JQ and keep your platform.

Yet Jordan Peterson chose to go there. In the article he used seriously flawed statistical data to falsely claim that high Ashkenazi mean IQ is responsible for the disproportionately high Jewish entry to Ivy League institutions. When critics pointed out his errors Jordan then doubled down with more BS math.

Then Vox stepped in and conclusively set out all his errors, and the truth that Ashkenazi mean IQ is nowhere near 115. John Fuerst of the Ulster Institute, a true scholar in human intelligence confirmed Vox's calculations (His published papers here). This led to the conclusion that asians with their truly high IQ are getting shafted by the affirmative action policies, aka Jewish academic nepotism, that favours lesser qualified applicants from their own tribe. The DOJ is investigating. You can bet a lot of funds will be put into fighting this.
05-07-2018 02:55 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 2 users Like rotekz's post:
Fortis, Off The Reservation
Post Reply 


Forum Jump:


User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)

Contact Us | RooshV.com | Return to Top | Return to Content | Mobile Version | RSS Syndication