My Last Game Book Is Here! After two years of hard work, I'm proud to release Game. Click here for full details.

Post Reply 
The Jordan Peterson thread
Author Message
rotekz Offline
Alpha Male
****

Posts: 1,399
Joined: Aug 2015
Reputation: 14
Post: #3076
RE: The Jordan Peterson thread
(04-07-2019 04:34 PM)Heuristics Wrote:  You're not understanding classical liberalism or for that matter modern liberalism.
Classical liberals in many cases are opposed to the things you mention. You are talking about neoliberals and the modern left.

You're conflating two distinct ideologies.

Nonsense. 'Suicide of the West' was first published in 1964 and has nothing to with neo-liberals or the modern left.
04-08-2019 12:45 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
christpuncher Offline
Chubby Chaser
**

Posts: 491
Joined: Nov 2012
Reputation: 8
Post: #3077
RE: The Jordan Peterson thread
I think most of the consternation comes from that JBP is essentially out in the open about his declaration that he won't address the JQ or any other crucial item... Media powers picked up on this early and made him famous and rich, while we all lapped him up and built a vision that wasn't true.

I mean, his rule is literally "Tell the truth, OR AT LEAST DON'T LIE". In other words - Tell the truth most of the time, until it is the most critical moment to keep telling the truth... Then cave in and lie.

Of course, to be devil's advocate, it's not entirely obvious that this isn't the correct tactic to be using in the first place, nor whether JBPs motivations truly lie elsewhere or if he has white Christianity at heart still, and is taking an ingenious indirect route to get us there...

The internet is littered with infamous men who told the whole truth and had minimal reach for their message, and also destroyed their career prospects in the modern world and with it prospects for participation in a large family and a happy life... Meanwhile, JBP somehow converts millions of men from scientific materialism to opening their minds to religion and philosophy, as well as getting men and women to think about their sexual degeneracy as problematic, and teaches everyone to clean their rooms and take responsibility.

It seems lately we've been taking the pessimistic view of Peterson's messages, when I don't know if it is entirely warranted, nor if the majority of listeners generally receives it as such.

Is Peterson subverting the subverters?

"Tell the truth, or at least don't lie"
Subverter hears: Tell the truth when it's easy and be a coward and keep submitting to (((authority))) when it really matters.
Regular man hears: Learn the truth, but don't tell the Jews that you know.

"Clean you room and take on the most responsibily you can bear"
Subverter hears: Stay distracted with trivial things and keep working your meaningless corporate job so you will be too busy to think about things like revolution and revolt against (((us))).
Regular man hears: Remember that beauty and purity is important. Have white children.

"The West is built on the concept of the supreme sanctity of the individual's rights"
Subverter hears: Don't go organizing into a white identity group and overthrow (((us))) please.
Regular man hears: Find your bravery to save the West through worshipping Christ.
04-08-2019 12:09 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 2 users Like christpuncher's post:
Labienus, ChefAllDay
Pride male Offline
True Player
*****

Posts: 2,883
Joined: Jun 2014
Reputation: 9
Post: #3078
RE: The Jordan Peterson thread
I am the only one who feels like Jordan talks a lot but actually says nothing. At least Owen agrees with me.




Don't debate me.
04-18-2019 11:36 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 2 users Like Pride male's post:
911, AnonymousBosch
_Different_T Offline
Game Denialist

Posts: 52
Joined: May 2018
Reputation: 0
Post: #3079
RE: The Jordan Peterson thread
(04-18-2019 11:36 AM)Pride male Wrote:  I am the only one who feels like Jordan talks a lot but actually says nothing. At least Owen agrees with me.

Here's some meta-comedy if you're into that sorta thing:



04-18-2019 01:44 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 1 user Likes _Different_T's post:
Pride male
Roosh Offline
Innovative Casanova
*******

Posts: 19,308
Joined: Aug 2008
Reputation: 410
Post: #3080
RE: The Jordan Peterson thread
Here's doing a debate with Zizek now:


Roosh
http://www.rooshv.com
04-19-2019 07:35 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 2 users Like Roosh's post:
NoMoreTO, debeguiled
TigerMandingo Offline
International Playboy
******
Gold Member

Posts: 3,612
Joined: Dec 2013
Reputation: 43
Post: #3081
RE: The Jordan Peterson thread
Haven’t listened yet but a lot of online chatter says Zizek is destroying Peterstein.

Kokkinakis banged your girlfriend. Sorry to tell you that mate.
04-19-2019 11:25 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
TigerMandingo Offline
International Playboy
******
Gold Member

Posts: 3,612
Joined: Dec 2013
Reputation: 43
Post: #3082
RE: The Jordan Peterson thread
Haven’t listened yet but a lot of online chatter says Zizek is destroying Peterstein.

Kokkinakis banged your girlfriend. Sorry to tell you that mate.
04-19-2019 11:25 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
felix_vagabondo Offline
Game Denialist

Posts: 59
Joined: Oct 2018
Reputation: 3
Post: #3083
RE: The Jordan Peterson thread
(04-19-2019 07:35 PM)Roosh Wrote:  Here's doing a debate with Zizek now:

Quote:"We should carry our burdens -- accept the suffering that goes along with it. But a danger lurks here, that of a subtle reversal. Don't fall in love with your suffering. Never presume that your suffering is itself a proof of your authenticity. Renunciation of pleasure can easily turn into pleasure of renunciation itself. For example... white Left Liberals love to denigrate their own culture and blame Eurocentrism for our [ills]. But it is instantly clear how this self-denigration brings a profit of its own. Through this renouncing of their particular roots, multicultural Liberals reserve for themselves the universal position: graciously soliciting others to assert their particular identity. White multiculturalist Liberals embody the lie of identity politics."

-Zizek

I was not expecting to hear such a well-phrased Red Pill-esque concept coming from JP's opponent.
Clap
(This post was last modified: Yesterday 12:49 AM by felix_vagabondo.)
Yesterday 12:37 AM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 3 users Like felix_vagabondo's post:
Transsimian, NoMoreTO, Buck Wild
_Different_T Offline
Game Denialist

Posts: 52
Joined: May 2018
Reputation: 0
Post: #3084
RE: The Jordan Peterson thread
Interesting that one of Zizek's gripes with Marx is the lack of an account of authority. Tellingly, Peterson never addresses this.
Yesterday 08:24 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
NoMoreTO Offline
Chubby Chaser
**

Posts: 508
Joined: Jan 2018
Reputation: 9
Post: #3085
RE: The Jordan Peterson thread
I watched about half of this. I respected Zizek as an intelligent guy, an academic who came at Marxism from a very different angle. It was actually refreshing to listen to a Marxist who wasn't an LGBT advocate, who disavowed cultural Marxism but really that is not who we are dealing with these days. Peterson actually pointed out well that Zizek wasn't a pure Marxist. Peterson actually went off script which I haven't seen in a while, but to me is very repetitive in his talking points so I had to skip some large parts (his intro). Overall I didn't get a ton out of it.

Peterson won, simply by looking at the two guys.
- Zizek is overweight and not well groomed, hunched body language
- English is not his first language
- His voice is slobbery with a lisp of some sort, it is hard to listen to.

Ultimately, Peterson looks Alpha next to this guy. Debate points aside, intelligence aside, Zizek might be an intellectual but he lacks the frame and stature on stage. Contrast that with Peterson who dressed better, is lean, and a well groomed, decent looking guy overall.

The general public will see it this way. They will size Zizek up based on how he looks. So a good choice for a debate for JP after getting clobbered by Sam Harris in the fake "God debates".

“Where the danger is, so grows the saving element.” ~ German poet Hoelderlin
(This post was last modified: Yesterday 08:38 AM by NoMoreTO.)
Yesterday 08:35 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
SamuelBRoberts Offline
International Playboy
******
Gold Member

Posts: 4,721
Joined: Oct 2014
Reputation: 92
Post: #3086
RE: The Jordan Peterson thread
The general public isn't watching a debate between a psychologist and an obscure Eastern European philosopher.
Grognards only, this one.

Datasheets: Stretches for Better Posture, Sous-Vide Cooking
Yesterday 08:44 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
_Different_T Offline
Game Denialist

Posts: 52
Joined: May 2018
Reputation: 0
Post: #3087
RE: The Jordan Peterson thread
Did you only watch the first half? The back and forth part in the second half is where they actually engage each others ideas, specifically regarding Peterson's claims about "Postmodern Neo-Marxism" and Zizek's claims about the limitations of Capitalism.
Yesterday 08:45 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
NoMoreTO Offline
Chubby Chaser
**

Posts: 508
Joined: Jan 2018
Reputation: 9
Post: #3088
RE: The Jordan Peterson thread
(Yesterday 08:44 AM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  The general public isn't watching a debate between a psychologist and an obscure Eastern European philosopher.
Grognards only, this one.

Fair enough, replace general public with your "typical viewer"

Most aren't that intellectual. I myself had trouble getting by the slobbering and unkempt look. I still kind of liked him more than JP

“Where the danger is, so grows the saving element.” ~ German poet Hoelderlin
Yesterday 08:51 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Akwesi Offline
Chubby Chaser
**

Posts: 583
Joined: Jan 2015
Reputation: 26
Post: #3089
RE: The Jordan Peterson thread
It was a good debate, I thought.

Both men are a little bit out of their depths when discussing economics, politics, and history, so the question of whether Marxism or capitalism brings happiness was a odd starting point. Peterson went beyond it by shamelessly presenting a straw-man Marxism that he could then use to explore some of his own ideas. Zizek responded by jettisoning both Marxism and the notion of happiness, then proceeded to just be his own zero-fucks-given eccentric self. He seemed more comfortable with the format than Peterson, cracked jokes and broke the rules. Peterson was more earnest and disciplined in his approach.

Eventually they got into territory where they have greater claims of originality, at the conjunction of psychology and philosophy. If you watch the debate on YT, from about 2 hours on out is the best part.

Zizek is the theory jock par excellence, and at times it was difficult for Peterson to keep up - after all, he is more of a combination of theorist, empiricist, and practicioner. I doubt anyone has ever taken life advice from Zizek. But the most pleasant thing about the discussion was that it wasn't really about dominating or "pwning" each other, but some sort of rational debate between two grown men who both think political correctness is for idiots.

Nevertheless, online simpletons are of course mostly concerned with establishing who "won." Ironically, Zizek-fans obsessed with the notion that Zizek "won" and is "superior" elegantly confirm one of Peterson's theses, the ubiquity of hierarchies in social life.
Yesterday 11:08 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 3 users Like Akwesi's post:
debeguiled, Buck Wild, Fortis
felix_vagabondo Offline
Game Denialist

Posts: 59
Joined: Oct 2018
Reputation: 3
Post: #3090
RE: The Jordan Peterson thread
(Yesterday 08:24 AM)_Different_T Wrote:  Interesting that one of Zizek's gripes with Marx is the lack of an account of authority. Tellingly, Peterson never addresses this.

Peterson's reading found that the Manifesto puts sovereignty with "the oppressed." His own psychological opinion, on the other hand accounts for authority by appealing to the concept of the competence hierarchy and other innate socio-psychological features that humans share with lobsters. I think that is why Zizek suggested that it was good that the ancient Greeks sometimes elected their leaders through a lottery, because, he implies, too much competence concentrated at the top is dangerous for the ecological and technological stability of society. In this way, he is like a primitivist, or a proto-conservative. He was like nostalgic for the dysfunction and deprivation of the old Soviet regime, when and where the worst that humans could do was kill a lot of their own species, unless, of course, the army uses nukes. I love how Peterson really gave the stink eye to a few hecklers that cheered joking-sadistically when he said, deprecating to Marx and Engels, that The Communist Manifesto advocated a really bloody revolution.
(This post was last modified: Today 03:33 AM by felix_vagabondo.)
Today 03:02 AM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
_Different_T Offline
Game Denialist

Posts: 52
Joined: May 2018
Reputation: 0
Post: #3091
RE: The Jordan Peterson thread
Quote:His own psychological opinion, on the other hand accounts for authority by appealing to the concept of the competence hierarchy and other innate socio-psychological features that humans share with lobsters.

That's a very well done articulation of Peterson. What do you think of changing "innate" to "innately evolved?"
(This post was last modified: Today 06:19 AM by _Different_T.)
Today 06:17 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 


Possibly Related Threads...
Thread: Author Replies: Views: Last Post
  Jordan Owen Attacking Roosh Yet Again... RickyGP 101 44,235 10-31-2018 11:21 AM
Last Post: Off The Reservation
Bug Roosh Live #23 - Jordan Peterson Roosh 13 2,561 10-25-2018 02:39 PM
Last Post: debeguiled
  Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson says women shouldn't vote angering the women on "The View" MidWest 25 12,190 06-07-2018 08:41 AM
Last Post: Cr33pin

Forum Jump:


User(s) browsing this thread: 2 Guest(s)

Contact Us | RooshV.com | Return to Top | Return to Content | Mobile Version | RSS Syndication