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Ali vs. Tyson - Who wins?
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StackGsMan Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Ali vs. Tyson - Who wins?
Oh and this guy doesn't know wtf he's talking about. Seems like some chump:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDaw2QFC1Qg

I'll go google some more I guess.





Keep in mind I didn't bring up Marciano to begin with, I was only replying.
(This post was last modified: 04-05-2017 04:45 PM by StackGsMan.)
04-05-2017 04:44 PM
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BrewDog Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Ali vs. Tyson - Who wins?
(04-05-2017 04:44 PM)StackGsMan Wrote:  Oh and this guy doesn't know wtf he's talking about. Seems like some chump:





I'll go google some more I guess.

If you'll click on the TV looking icon and paste the youtube address it'll put the video on this forum.

Ali is already a bit out of sorts in this video. He got hit too many times by too many strong fighters. Seems it chilled him out and humbled him in his retirement.
(This post was last modified: 04-05-2017 05:39 PM by BrewDog.)
04-05-2017 05:37 PM
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rudebwoy Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Ali vs. Tyson - Who wins?
(04-05-2017 04:41 PM)StackGsMan Wrote:  Joe Louis? The man that is considered the greatest boxer of all time by boxing experts? Let me guess, you're going to say Louis was old when he fought or the fight was also fixed.

Joe Walcott?

Archie Moore?

But before I even get into any discussion of boxing history, why don't we talk about my "nonsense".

Have you ever even boxed beyond going to a gym and throwing some jabs at some mitts? Keep in mind that any reputable gym asks new members to practice technique, mitts, and bags for at least a few months before even allowing light controlled sparring.

I actually have boxed. I've bloodied lips and noses. I've also been hit so hard I've had a light flash before my eyes and hit the ground. I've also picked blood out of my nose the day after sparring (hint: the blood is actually black the day after).

Have you done any of that?

Don't call me out on "nonsense" when you are a boxing KJ. Gain 15 pounds then spar with a heavyweight that knows what they are doing and tell me more about how a guy that never lost a fight and was knocking guys through the ropes was fixed by the mob.

Is it because he was Italian? Or maybe because you're black and can't believe a white boxer would be that good?

I never said Rocky Marciano was the best boxer ever, and he would have been crushed by either Ali or Tyson. But that doesn't mean he was garbage either just because of his style.

Is this you, I can't tell:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LPddiQXD9c

Marciano's fights were fixed by the mob, common fact. So I would put a huge asterisk besides his name.

I am more of a fan of Jack Johnson (greatest of all time) and Sugar Ray Robinson.

I have boxed, wrestled in high school and did muay thai for one year.

I won't comment on the race angle, I couldn't care less what colour he is. You already know the best boxers are black or latino.

I am done in this discussion.

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04-06-2017 12:40 PM
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StackGsMan Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Ali vs. Tyson - Who wins?
(04-06-2017 12:40 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  
(04-05-2017 04:41 PM)StackGsMan Wrote:  Joe Louis? The man that is considered the greatest boxer of all time by boxing experts? Let me guess, you're going to say Louis was old when he fought or the fight was also fixed.

Joe Walcott?

Archie Moore?

But before I even get into any discussion of boxing history, why don't we talk about my "nonsense".

Have you ever even boxed beyond going to a gym and throwing some jabs at some mitts? Keep in mind that any reputable gym asks new members to practice technique, mitts, and bags for at least a few months before even allowing light controlled sparring.

I actually have boxed. I've bloodied lips and noses. I've also been hit so hard I've had a light flash before my eyes and hit the ground. I've also picked blood out of my nose the day after sparring (hint: the blood is actually black the day after).

Have you done any of that?

Don't call me out on "nonsense" when you are a boxing KJ. Gain 15 pounds then spar with a heavyweight that knows what they are doing and tell me more about how a guy that never lost a fight and was knocking guys through the ropes was fixed by the mob.

Is it because he was Italian? Or maybe because you're black and can't believe a white boxer would be that good?

I never said Rocky Marciano was the best boxer ever, and he would have been crushed by either Ali or Tyson. But that doesn't mean he was garbage either just because of his style.

Is this you, I can't tell:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LPddiQXD9c

Marciano's fights were fixed by the mob, common fact. So I would put a huge asterisk besides his name.

I am more of a fan of Jack Johnson (greatest of all time) and Sugar Ray Robinson.

I have boxed, wrestled in high school and did muay thai for one year.

I won't comment on the race angle, I couldn't care less what colour he is. You already know the best boxers are black or latino.

I am done in this discussion.

It isn't common, and it isn't a fact that Marciano's fights were fixed. I've been around boxing for years, and I've never heard that accusation. It sounds to me like you're falling for a fairy tale that Italians were somehow connected to the mob simply because they were Italian and so was the Cosa Nostra. It's kind of like the white girl at the club who thinks all black guys can rap or are thugs because Tupac wore a bandanna.

Since you're familiar with combat sports, especially Muay Thai, you should know more than anyone that a warrior spirit has nothing to do with race. Marciano wasn't a boxer, his technique was appalling. He was a warrior that could take a brick wall falling down on him.

I don't agree that the best boxers are latino or black, I think that's a ridiculous generalization that dumbs down the entire sport.

Boxers, for the most part and with some notable exceptions like Ali, are usually born of two conditions (notice I said conditions after born): poverty and access to a culture that promotes boxing.

I've never heard of, and anyone can correct me if I'm wrong, an African born and raised boxer dominating any weight class or even achieving any marked success. They are black.

I've never heard of a Jamaican dominating in boxing at the top levels. They are black, and on top of that they produce some of the most athletic Olympic athletes every four years.

I've never heard of a Chilean boxer dominating, they are Latino.

I've never heard of a Brazilian boxer dominating (not sure if they are considered Latino as well), even though they have a huge presence in many combat sports including MMA.

What's the reason?

Because their country doesn't have a boxing culture. Same reason why America dominates basketball, because you can get a game going in just about every city at the drop of a dime.

America produced a lot of boxing legends because of the boxing culture it had, and almost all of them came from the impoverished ethnic groups. When the Irish were poor, they produced boxers. When the Italian were poor, they produced boxers. When the African Americans were poor, they produced boxers. Etc.

Now that boxing is in a huge decline in the US, because of the rise of MMA, guns, and the slow movement to draw everyone into what they think is "middle class", America is falling off the map in the boxing world.

Eastern Europe, Britain, and Latin America are taking over boxing, despite the race of the boxer.

As Forest Gump said, "that's all I have to say about that".
04-06-2017 05:20 PM
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Lagavulin Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Ali vs. Tyson - Who wins?
[/quote]I won't comment on the race angle, I couldn't care less what colour he is. You already know the best boxers are black or latino.[/quote]

This was a common belief 10-20 years ago but is now outdated and no longer true.

If we had to put a race at the top of the tree as things stand it would have to be Eastern Europe - the boxers they are producing these days are scary - Golovkin, Kovalev, Lomachenko, Beterbiev and Usyk are killers and there's a whole host of comrades following in their steps.

And getting back to the point of the thread - Ali beats Tyson. Tyson was a great boxer in his prime but the guys he was knocking out were bums who were intimidated and psyched out before they even got in the ring. Ali had no fear, he fought and beat some of the greatest heavyweights ever in their prime during the golden era including Sonny Liston, Joe Frazier, George Foreman, Ken Norton and Floyd Paterson, in most cases more than once and in some cases where he was expected to lose. He was the greatest and he had it all, there is no comparison.

Great thread by the way. Have to laugh at the dude who mentioned Deontay Wilder - have you seen him box, he is technically very poor and he doesn't have one good win to his name, typical of some of the hype jobs that exist in boxing today, built up by their promoters without ever having achieved anything in the sport. He's heavy handed but that's it.
(This post was last modified: 04-07-2017 05:08 PM by Lagavulin.)
04-07-2017 04:39 PM
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TripleG Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Ali vs. Tyson - Who wins?
Even Ali mentions in the interview that Marciano was better than Frazier and that Ali "may" be able to beat Marciano but he is not sure if both were in their primes.




To put this discussion to rest:

Marciano > Ali > Tyson
04-07-2017 04:58 PM
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Moma Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Ali vs. Tyson - Who wins?
Triple G, it doesn't put the discussion to rest. That video was put up already. The video doesn't prove nada, bro.

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04-07-2017 06:13 PM
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Rocha Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Ali vs. Tyson - Who wins?
Marciano is a boxing great no doubt, but Ali is the best of all time for simple fact of the sheer amount of competition he had back on that day. I am going to quote myself here.

"On the other side it is not for a chance that the late 60s and early 70s is considered to be the golden age of heavyweight boxing, with so many talented guys who would be world champions in any other era or that where in fact champions, and all lost to Ali.

George Foreman, Joe Frazier, George Chuvalo, Floyd Patterson, Jerry Quarry, Ken Norton, Oscar Bonavena, Sonny Liston, Joe Bugner, Ernie Shavers, Henry Cooper, Ron Lyle, Zora Folley, Cleveland Williams... all of these guys where knocking out each one of the other in authentic slugfests.

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(This post was last modified: 04-07-2017 08:26 PM by Rocha.)
04-07-2017 08:04 PM
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Giovonny Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Ali vs. Tyson - Who wins?
This question was answered by the famous boxing trainers/historians Angelo Dundee and Emmanuel Steward.

Ali would win.

Why?

Ali got better when faced with pressure and emotional struggle

Tyson got worse when faced with pressure and emotional struggle.

--

Ali was tough physically,mentally and spiritually.

Tyson was tough physically but NOT so much mentally or spiritually.

--

Of course, if Cus D'Amato lived a few years longer, everything could have been different and Mike could have matured even more.
(This post was last modified: 04-07-2017 08:15 PM by Giovonny.)
04-07-2017 08:13 PM
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Hoser Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Ali vs. Tyson - Who wins?
OT: I was recently scheduled to meet Tyson. I told Roosh about it beforehand and asked if he wanted me to deliver a message (Roosh is a Tyson fan, in case you haven't already read so).

Quick summary: I delivered Roosh's message as a written note. Tyson showed zero "superior" attitude and was quick to turn a handshake into a hug.

It's hard not to like the man.
(This post was last modified: 04-07-2017 08:55 PM by Hoser.)
04-07-2017 08:19 PM
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rudebwoy Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Ali vs. Tyson - Who wins?
I would listen to what the boxing historian Bert Sugar has to say.

Marciano was a good tough boxer, his 5 best fights were against boxers who had an average age close to 40. He also fought at 189llbs, so not really a true heavyweight.

Jack Dempsey had a very impressive record, Sugar rates him as probably one of the best of all time.

First of you cannot compare boxers from different era's and also certain periods had tremendous boxers.

Ali had a much longer career than Tyson, both are legends in my opinion.

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04-08-2017 09:38 PM
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