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Vitamin B-12 Deficiency.
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Rigsby Offline
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Vitamin B-12 Deficiency.
Ok, this isn't a proper data sheet. I'd like to do one later on, so for now this is just a placeholder, or perhaps a thread for general discussion on the subject should anyone wish to chime in.

First of all, my brain isn't working properly to do a proper data sheet, and secondly, I will have more data to work with in a little while, when we get to see just how much damage is done and how reversible it is. It looks like I may have very well suffered permanent irreversible neurological and brain damage. I may be lucky, and I'm hoping that I will. So for now, this is just a heads up. Please excuse the adhoc nature, but I want to get this information out there, after much research and many years of undiagnosed illness. Both mental and physical.

Things have been complicated by the fact I have been suffering chronic stress and I have some kind of adrenal fatigue and permanently elevated Cortisol levels, which actually does a lot of damage in itself, such as brain atrophy (shrinkage). That alone by itself is very serious, but I have had a perfect storm of ailments that if they had gone on much longer would have killed me in a few years time. I won't touch on those too much, except in passing, as I can always expound on them later, because for now I want to focus on the B-12 deficiency as the main thing.

You have probably noticed that I make a bit of sense some of the time, then I go a bit 'off my rocker'. Now, it's easy to make excuses, but if I have noticed this others must have too. You've all been very generous with me, so I try to give back where I can.

Drinking doesn't help, and in fact it has been a major complicating factor in this 'perfect storm' so I'm not going to sugar coat it: yes, I drink too much. The majority of my life is spent sober, but as the years of chronic stress and illness have got to me, I wouldn't object to being labeled an alcoholic. I'll leave it up to you to decide on that one.

One thing is for sure, the drinking has not helped at all, and is probably the biggest contributing factor to my general malaise. But something else is to blame as much, if not more, and that is vegetarianism. The two great evils. I will give up one but I will not give up the other, respectively, and anyway, the damage is pretty much done and it makes no difference now. Now I know what it is I am dealing with, I should be able to cure myself. I think if I carried on drinking now then I would definitely be a hopeless alcoholic. Alcohol is easy for me to give up, and it's not really an option. The vegetarianism I will carry on as it is too deeply ingrained in me, plus for other personal reasons I won't mention here. And besides, it makes no difference.

I have a Vitamin B-12 deficiency. It's pretty serious. It insidiously caught up with me. The prognosis is good, however, and what permanent damage is done is done. They reckon 6 months left untreated is about as far as you can go without suffering permanent ill effects. Both neurological and brain damage. I'm pretty sure I will suffer the neurological problems as I have had symptoms for years, but the brain stuff has only manifested lately. The needle and the damage done.

Ok, so what are the symptoms of a serious B-12 deficiency?

They are varied and many, and often typical symptoms that you get for many other ailments, which nearly always complicates a diagnosis from your doctor. I'll get to that in a moment. I have found some amazing websites, and I will link after quoting, but for now, this was my Eureka moment, the point where it ALL made sense:

A B12 deficiency is often misdiagnosed as depression, ME/CFS, fibromyalgia, iron-deficiency-anemia, MS or hypochondria. Patients have often been to the doctor many times, visited multiple doctors and have had numerous tests done, before the B12 deficiency was found. This is costing society millions of euro’s every year, and patients years of unnecessary suffering, misdiagnoses with the accompanying stress, and most of all, the risk of permanent neurological damage.
Considering 7 in 10 patients report neurological symptoms, which can become permanent, it is clear the problem is huge.


https://stichtingb12tekort.nl/wetenschap...eficiency/

I have had chronic depression the last years. I also have had the symptoms of ME and CFS (though not as bad). I have the symptoms of fibromyalgia (which is not a disease but a constellation of symptoms). And lately, why I have got really worried, is that I have a friend with MS (Multiple Sclerosis) and more and more my ailments match what he has. I have been preparing myself for the worst. Something life-changing, if not life-threatening. And last but not least, my doctor thinks I'm a neurotic hypochondriac. Which is why this has never been diagnosed. I've also had many tests done, all coming back clear or borderline. Including abnormal thyroid which is also related, but more related to Folate (B9) levels, which complicate diagnosis even further, one covering up for the other. I'll leave that for later.

And it should have been diagnosed if she was any good, because she knew I was a strict vegetarian, and she also knew that I was almost anemic due to very low B-12 levels. She should have put 2 and 2 together, but it is very commonly missed. And that is why I am making this thread. There can be many causes for B-12 deficiency, but what we are interested in here is the recognition of the deficiency itself, and how to treat it. It matters little how you got it. I am just explaining my trajectory.

How often does B12 deficiency occur?

B12 deficiency occurs much more frequently than generally assumed. People often mistakenly think that a deficiency only occurs in sufferers of pernicious anemia or strict vegetarians. There are, however, many more factors that can cause a deficiency. Then there is also the widely held misconception that a B12 deficiency is always associated with anemia, which often causes doctors to miss the right diagnosis.


https://stichtingb12tekort.nl/wetenschap...ncy-occur/

B12 deficiency and anaemia

One of the major misconceptions about a B12 deficiency is that it is always accompanied by anaemia, or that without anaemia a deficiency is nothing serious. Many patients are being missed because physicians only test B12 when anaemia is present, and, even when a deficiency is obvious by a low blood value, patients are not being treated, because the deficiency is not being taken seriously without the presence of anaemia.


https://stichtingb12tekort.nl/wetenschap...nd-anemia/



Next post I will outline exactly what the symptoms and warning sings of B-12 deficiency are. It's easier and quicker for me to split it up like this for the moment. I just want to add though, as this is in the lifting (as well as fitness) forum, that I have a bench, a belt, some barbells, some dumbbells and a big pack of protein powder waiting for me in the garage. I'm actually hopeful I might be able to start using them soon.

Suffice it to say, that alcohol is bad for you, and meat is good for you, mmmkay? This will be a text you can refer to when arguing with vegetarians and especially vegans. In fact, it will explain much of their behaviour at both a neurological and brain level. And you can always tell them it was a vegetarian of a quarter of a century's standing that came to these conclusions. This text will also provide information for those wishing to go the vegetarian route, but to do it safely.

Let's see exactly what we are dealing with here, with this Vitamin B-12 deficiency thing...
03-25-2017 04:52 PM
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Rigsby Offline
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RE: Vitamin B-12 Deficiency.
These are a few of the things you need to look out for:

Mental Changes from B12 Deficiency

Some of the less classic, but still common, vitamin B 12 Deficiency Symptoms are Mental Changes from B12 Deficiency. These are particularly devastating because they cause so much disability, and yet are very responsive to therapy with Methylcobalamin B12 if they are caught early. Unfortunately, physicians rarely, if ever do the necessary Methylmalonic Acid Test that would allow the deficiency to be caught early and the sufferers usually go on to be diagnosed with an ‘incurable’ mental or neurologic ‘disease’. Some of these mental changes of B12 deficiency mimic problems such as:

Mental Illness
Depression
Dementia and Alzheimers Disease
Multiple Sclerosis and other "Degenerative Spinal Cord" Diseases
'Brain Fog' or the inability to think clearly


http://www.easy-immune-health.com/vitami...ptoms.html


Neuropsychiatric symptoms of B12 deficiency: not just in the elderly and often without anaemia

Vitamin B12 is an essential nutrient, needed for the function of many systems in the body. As a result of a B12 deficiency haematological, neurological, gastro-intestinal and psychiatric problems can develop.
The psychiatric symptoms can precede the other symptoms, among which the well known anaemia, in some cases even with years. These psychiatric symptoms include: irritability, mood changes, depression, disorientation, confusion, memory problems, concentration problems, sleep disorders, hallucinations, paranoia and apathy. Psychiatric disorders that are diagnosed in B12 deficient patients are, among others: dementia, depression, delirium, bipolar disorder, panic disorder, psychosis and phobias.

The fact that many symptoms can precede the development of anaemia, and even cause permanent damage before anaemia develops, has been known for over a century, attested by many scientific articles.


https://stichtingb12tekort.nl/wetenschap...eficiency/


[Image: 432xNxsymptoms_of_b12_deficiency.jpg.pag...yzwUhv.jpg]

...they are also identical to Multiple Sclerosis- even to the point of the DEFINING feature of Multiple Sclerosis- spinal cord lesions.

http://www.easy-immune-health.com/vitami...ptoms.html


How Do I Know If I Have Vitamin B12 Deficiency?

The best way to know for sure is to get your blood levels checked by a doctor. It’s a simple and reliable procedure. But unfortunately the truth is that many vegetarians (and the vast majority of vegans) who don’t take B12 supplements are, to some extent, B12 deficient.

Some of the physical symptoms of B12 deficiency to look out for include the following:

Fatigue
Shortness of breath
Canker sores
Bruising more easily than normal
Paleness
Poor (or sometimes even absent) reflexes
Lack of vibration and soft touch sensation
GAVE syndrome (a gastrointestinal issue)

As B12 deficiency also affects the brain, a number of mental symptoms may also be apparent:

Depression
Poor memory
Changes in personality
Becoming irritable
Psychosis and dementia if left untreated
In the worst case scenario, untreated B12 deficiency will eventually be fatal. Sometimes this can happen within as little as three years.

Basically, you really don’t want vitamin B12 deficiency, but it’s alarmingly common among vegans and vegetarians.

http://www.methylcobalamininfo.com/why-e...-take-b12/


............


That's a lot of information, but I'll just leave it there for now without elaborating on any of the finer points.

So now we have an idea of what to look out for with regard to B-12 deficiency, what can we do to combat it when we realise what we are dealing with...
03-25-2017 05:13 PM
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RE: Vitamin B-12 Deficiency.
First, a little backstory.

I've known about Vitamin B-12 deficiency for a few years. I wish I knew about it a lot sooner, but I would say the last 2-3 years I have been taking a B-12 supplement. B-12 is actually stored in the liver for a few years, until it gets depleted that is, then you have none left. That is why when you are diagnosed with a deficiency, you are given a super dose of it, usually by injection. However, the medical research shows that oral or sub-lingual tablets are just as effective. Sub-lingual goes straight in to the blood stream and oral is tablets you chew (not swallow). I should have been given this the moment I was diagnosed with sub-par B-12 levels, but it is a common mistake to not recognize it. I hold no grudges, but I will make it good...

So I took 1000 ug or mcg or micrograms per day (not every day though). Forget about RDA, it doesn't matter for B-12 (we'll cover that later). This stuff is confusing as hell. Not least because the symbol used (ug) is a form of the proper symbol (µg) - they both mean the same thing, as does 'mcg' which ALL represent the unit of the microgram. 1000 micrograms in a milligram. In fact you can use google with the search string:

https://www.google.ch/search?q=1000+mcg&...cg+to+mg&*

And a nifty little real time calculator pops up, and you can work it all out for yourself according to your needs.

It is confusing as hell though, not least because many of these sites do actually give wrong units and levels. You have to be really careful with this. I spent hours on this today working it out to find the maximum dosage. It doesn't matter so much with B-12 because it is water soluble and non-toxic, but any other Vitamin might cause liver failure or death. This is serious business!

Treatment with high dose vitamin B12 been shown to be safe for more than 50 years

For over 60 years high dose vitamin B12 treatment has been used without any signs of the danger of an overdose.
The Dutch National Health Counsel and the Regional Disciplinary Medical Board of Eindhoven have stated clearly that vitamin B12 is non-toxic.
Clinical research and the treatment for cyanide poisoning have shown that even extremely high doses of vitamin B12 and the serum values that go with it are harmless.


https://stichtingb12tekort.nl/wetenschap...-50-years/

That is a very important link because of their research. A must read. B-12 is non toxic. Though you must take the right form of it. If you have a specific gene, it can be fatal if taken in a certain form. We are talking specifically about Methylcobalamin here - we will get on to the different types of B-12 later.

So all this time I was only taking 1000ug (micrograms), and not every day, and not for many years when I should have been and my B-12 basically got totally depleted from my liver, exacerbated by my drinking of alcohol. My alcohol caused depression. The lack of B-12 caused depression which caused me to drink. Again, I let you be the judge of the weakness of my character. I am just trying to present the facts.

All those years of not eating any meat, and of drinking too much and not taking enough B-12 supplements caught up with me, causing a recursive spiral into effective madness and eventually physical illness. All undiagnosed, even after being spotted in tests. The medical and pharmaceutical aspects of diagnosis are extremely complex and I won't go in to them here, but they are included in the links I give. It's not easy.

If I hadn't finally worked this out for myself today, after many years, well, I really would have MS and Cancer and many other very nasty things. A Vitamin B-12 deficiency is one of the worst things you can have. Pernicious Anemia kills you in a matter of years.

But the prognosis is good. Very good. And this is why there needs to be awareness of this. Because a little bit of awareness can save lives and years of suffering and massive strain on otherwise overstretched medical resources, not least the mental health aspect.

Next post, we get down to the nitty-gritty of curing and healing this B-12 deficiency - some good news for once...
03-25-2017 05:44 PM
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Post: #4
RE: Vitamin B-12 Deficiency.
Beef liver is the best food for B12.
03-25-2017 05:56 PM
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Rigsby Offline
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RE: Vitamin B-12 Deficiency.
[Quick fact: Vitamin B-12 deficiency can cause infertility in both men and women. It can also cause psoriasis (dry skin) and also baldness! Not good if you're already hopped up to the eyeballs with the T.]

When you realise you have a B-12 deficiency and you decide to take action, you want to hit it hard and fast. Every day/minute/hour is valuable. I went the whole hog. I ordered a six month supply for a tenner from ebay. How sick is that? All this time. All this suffering. Life lost, not lived, impending death, for a six month supply that costs the same as my beers for the night. Shame? I know it.

This is what I ordered: Vitamin B12 Methylcobalamin 1000mcg 180 Berry Flavoured Melts. Look 'em up for yourself on the bay. They came the next day. They don't even taste bad. I overlooked the sugar in them. I couldn't give a damn about all that right now. I'm not affiliated.

YOUR job to make sure that you get the right KIND of Sublingual B12 vitamins- as there are many types. The cheapest and most readily available is in a form called Cyanocobalamin. But you DO NOT WANT cyanocobalamin. It is a far inferior to Methylcobalamin B12, for many reasons, and, if you happen to have the MTHFR Gene, using cyanocobalamin could be devastating.

Their bold, not mine!

This is a great, informative page: http://www.easy-immune-health.com/vitami...tment.html

Study it all if you are interested in this. I did. A bit more:

The Right Dose is the Key to Vitamin B12 Deficiency Treatment

Getting the right KIND of vitamin B12 is just the first step. As I said earlier, it's likely that your doctor will recommend a vitamin b 12 dosage of 1000 micrograms (mcg) per day. While studies have shown that this dose is effective to bring up vitamin B12 BLOOD LEVELS, the Facts about Vitamin B12 show that that this is often not a high enough vitamin b 12 dosage to make people feel as well as they could- and THAT is what is important to YOU.


One study entitled Vitamin B-12: Placebo or Neglected Therapeutic Tool had people who felt fatigued, but had NORMAL vitamin B12 blood levels and kept giving higher doses of supplements until they had a 'maximum feeling of well being'. And the AVERAGE dose that it took to do this was 9000 micrograms per day, that is 9 milligrams. And that was the AVERAGE dose, this means that some people needed even higher doses than this to feel well. And these were people without a diagnosed vitamin B12 deficiency!

So, if you truly have Vitamin B12 deficiency, then you may need even more than these study participants!



Safety of High Dosages of B12

In the above study that averaged 9 milligrams per day, there were no adverse effects or side effects. Vitamin B12 is an EXTREMELY safe vitamin to take. Some studies even had people with neurologic damage, such as multiple sclerosis and Parkinson's Disease, taking up to 40 milligrams per day without any ill effects of this vitamin!

While it's unlikely that you will need a vitamin b 12 dosage THIS high for vitamin B12 deficiency treatment, you certainly might need a dose higher than the 'standard' dose of 1000 micrograms.



Using this as a guide, I took a whopping 10 milligrams. That is 10,000ug or mcg (micrograms) - basically 10 tablets at 1000ug a pop. This sounds a lot, but consider that they do sell these B-12 tablets in 5000ug (mcg) form, so that would only be 2 of them!

Some take more, many see this as a waste, but it won't harm you - it is all excreted via urine. There are complications if you have liver disease and if you pee a lot, of course. I'm not a doctor, and you need to see a doctor before you do anything I'm talking about here. This is purely for informational purposes. You are responsible for your own health, and you shouldn't go listening to idiots on the internet like me.

My liver is good.

I only took this higher dose today, after realising I had not taken any B-12 for some months and it was probably why I was feeling bad. A small amount made me feel better straight away. I had become bed-ridden, unable to feel my feet, crippling stomach pain, confusion, suicidal depression, and a few other nasty things that I forget right now - oh yeah - memory loss! :-)

All very amusing. But the back pain I experienced that was so bad I could not get out of bed for a week was no joke. And that had nothing to do with the joint pain in my hip that was so bad I literally could not walk without crying. I walked to the shop like the cripple I was, with small children laughing and pointing at me, young mothers walking to the other side of the road. But I had no food in the house and I had to eat. Yes, I grabbed a couple of beers while I was there! :-)

Somatoform disorders are part and parcel of chronic and major depression. But this was something else again. I'll leave it for later to philosophize about Cartesian duality. This was very real, and it brought me to tears, the sheer frustration of it all. And I laughed out loud quite a bit too.

There was such an improvement in my mood - I was able to do the dishes for the first time in months without it being a battle where they were beating me, I washed, I cleaned the kitchen, I played my guitar that I've been staring at for months on end (a nice new one). I felt like a new man. And this is just on the small 1000ug dose. And that is why I took 10,000ug today, after checking it was safe.

Quite a few people say that the effects take hold very quickly, and I would agree with that. A few days, and you should be brand new. The lasting damage remains to be seen, but I heard a story from someone that was far far more further gone than me, and they pulled it right back from the edge. Peripheral Neuropathy is a bitch. I missed three appointments with my neurologist because of depression. Go figure.

There are people that take about 50,000ug a day - those that have MS for example. And the main site I respect the most says this is overkill, but then again it shouldn't harm you. At worst you pee it out and waste money on a not very expensive supplement.


Conclusion

B12 deficiency is much more prevalent than assumed. A conservative estimate based on the figures from various surveys would amount to 3 to 5% of the total population. For the Netherlands that would be over half a million people.
Deficiencies are not exclusively frequent with seniors, for regularly we see deficiencies in youths and children. The reference values should actually be adjusted for age because of the lowering of B12 values over the course of life. If this were properly done, it would become clear that B12 deficiency occurs very frequently. This is often disregarded which causes late diagnosis and treatment with potentially serious consequences.


https://stichtingb12tekort.nl/wetenschap...ncy-occur/

.....


This is all getting a bit dense, and I think I've made the point, so I'll wrap up next with some links and further reading...
03-25-2017 06:41 PM
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Rigsby Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Vitamin B-12 Deficiency.
(03-25-2017 05:56 PM)Steelex Wrote:  Beef liver is the best food for B12.

People with this condition in the 19th century would be made to eat a pound of it every day! And it cured them. Just don't eat Polar Bear liver! It will kill you, for reasons outlined earlier.

But yeah, a bit of liver does a body good...

It's true.

When B-12 deficiency gets to a really advanced stage you get the pernicious anemia bit, and by that point, well, it might very well kill you. It did back then. Science and medicine have come a very long way. But the application of that knowledge is lacking due to Doctors being over-stretched and resources being scarce.
03-25-2017 06:47 PM
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Rigsby Offline
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RE: Vitamin B-12 Deficiency.
Time to wrap up. I've done a lot of research about this over the last couple of years. Ok, not a 'lot' but more than most. Today I found some great sites that really consolidated my overall knowledge on the subject. I'm sorry if I got anything wrong. Always double-check my assertions. You are responsible for your own health, etc. etc.

I narrowed all this down to just three sites.

The most important was the Dutch one that drew on half a century of empirical research:

Lots of good articles in English here - https://stichtingb12tekort.nl/our-english-articles/

From there you can find all the links I gave previously and many more. Probably the most informative site.


Next would be the actual Methylcobalamin site:

http://www.methylcobalamininfo.com/

They unashamedly push this most useful form of the B-12 vitamin. They give their reasons why. And they provide a wealth of resources in the meantime. I suggest you read the entire site. It won't take long to pick out the bits that are pertinent to you or that are just plain interesting. Methylcobalamin is probably the best variation on the molecule that is B-12. You'll get a lot of value there. And they don't blind you with science.

Last, but certainly not least is this site: http://www.easy-immune-health.com/vitami...ptoms.html

Just a few pages to scroll through. It's like an idiot's guide. Lots of BIG words and BOLD words. But it works. It informs.

And that's about it.

I drew 99 percent of my research from those sites today.


A tenner for a six month supply. Six years of visits to the Doctor's surgery. Sleep disorders, waking in the night with stomach cramps, adrenal crashes, brain fog...

Maybe some of this is just excuses for my bad behaviour. For my weakness. My sloth. For the fact I'm just a bit of a twat. Judge me as you will. I'm not perfect.

But if nothing else, get yourself a pack of B-12 sweeties off of the bay or your local pharmacy. They cost next to nothing, you can't overdose on them, and they do a body and a mind good.

What do you think? Do you think they work after seeing this thread?

:-)

Be well, brothers.
03-25-2017 07:09 PM
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Post: #8
RE: Vitamin B-12 Deficiency.
I have nerve pain so I take vitamin b complex, helps keep the pain to a minimal. Been taking it for like 5 months now after a year and a half of suffering from nerve pain and doctors not knowing what's wrong
03-27-2017 12:04 AM
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Post: #9
RE: Vitamin B-12 Deficiency.
About vitamin B-12:

Generally it is true that most people have B-12 deficiency even meat eaters.

However when you start taking a solid orthomolecular program -

Meaning high potency Multi - like Swanson High Potency (without Iron)
vitamin C 2000-5000mg extra
Vitamin D3 5000IU
Magnesium 300mg
Omega 3 acids

Then you find out - and I did even with vegeterian friends, that no extra B-12 is required. The body starts absorbing B-12 in food much much better - so much in reality that you have too much which is not that good.

The High potency Multi always contain some B-12, but is more the impact of added vitamin C and other nutrients which then makes your body absorb B-12 in a much higher fashion.

The same goes for iron - that is why taking vitamin C is best done outside of eating solid food, because then you absorb way too much iron.

Most of other nutrients even having too much of them don't matter much, but B-12 and especially iron is not something you want to have too much.

So take the good Multi - ditch the B-12 supplements unless you don't take the Multi at all.
03-27-2017 02:23 AM
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CleanSlate Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Vitamin B-12 Deficiency.
How and why is the methylcobalamin version of B12 superior to the cyanocobalamin one?

And why don't most multivitamins use the former?
(This post was last modified: 03-27-2017 04:22 AM by CleanSlate.)
03-27-2017 04:22 AM
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RE: Vitamin B-12 Deficiency.
(03-27-2017 04:22 AM)CleanSlate Wrote:  How and why is the methylcobalamin version of B12 superior to the cyanocobalamin one?

And why don't most multivitamins use the former?

Most vitamin producers are big pharma owned and use even non-working versions of for example vitamin E - dl-alpha instead of d-alpha, then natural one.

Vitamin B-12 is hard to absorb by the body - methylcobamalin is the best absorbable form, because some forms differ in terms of absorption from 5% to 50%. Also you need to absorb it best in the mouth, not swallow it.

But as I said - pick a high potency multi by:

Swanson
Now Foods
Youngevity
Awesomesupplements
and a few others of equal standing - mostly small or medium companies

Then you don't need B-12 supplements. I tested the bloodwork after having taken high potency supplements - your body starts absorbing B-12 in extreme levels.
03-27-2017 04:29 AM
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RE: Vitamin B-12 Deficiency.
^ Thanks, Zel!
03-27-2017 05:55 AM
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RE: Vitamin B-12 Deficiency.
So I take it "Centrum" is junk?

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03-27-2017 09:44 AM
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RE: Vitamin B-12 Deficiency.
(03-27-2017 09:44 AM)DJ-Matt Wrote:  So I take it "Centrum" is junk?

Yes - some are even less than junk, they qualify as toxins and carcinogens.
03-27-2017 10:58 AM
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Rigsby Offline
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Post: #15
RE: Vitamin B-12 Deficiency.
(03-27-2017 12:04 AM)Rekkd Wrote:  I have nerve pain so I take vitamin b complex, helps keep the pain to a minimal. Been taking it for like 5 months now after a year and a half of suffering from nerve pain and doctors not knowing what's wrong

You have to be careful. Some B vitamins can cause nerve pain and tingles.
04-08-2017 07:43 PM
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Rigsby Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Vitamin B-12 Deficiency.
(03-27-2017 02:23 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  About vitamin B-12:

Generally it is true that most people have B-12 deficiency even meat eaters.

However when you start taking a solid orthomolecular program -

Meaning high potency Multi - like Swanson High Potency (without Iron)
vitamin C 2000-5000mg extra
Vitamin D3 5000IU
Magnesium 300mg
Omega 3 acids

Then you find out - and I did even with vegeterian friends, that no extra B-12 is required. The body starts absorbing B-12 in food much much better - so much in reality that you have too much which is not that good.

The High potency Multi always contain some B-12, but is more the impact of added vitamin C and other nutrients which then makes your body absorb B-12 in a much higher fashion.

The same goes for iron - that is why taking vitamin C is best done outside of eating solid food, because then you absorb way too much iron.

Most of other nutrients even having too much of them don't matter much, but B-12 and especially iron is not something you want to have too much.

So take the good Multi - ditch the B-12 supplements unless you don't take the Multi at all.


Bit of a word salad there brother.

I may try to get through it later. Or not.

Lots of contradictory things there to what my research found.

Guess we'll have to work this one out later.
04-08-2017 07:46 PM
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Rigsby Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Vitamin B-12 Deficiency.
(03-27-2017 04:22 AM)CleanSlate Wrote:  How and why is the methylcobalamin version of B12 superior to the cyanocobalamin one?

And why don't most multivitamins use the former?


If you read my post you will see exactly why.

I try to hold your hand. I really do. But I won't fucking spoon feed you.

I give several sources that answer your question.
04-08-2017 07:48 PM
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dilon_78 Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Vitamin B-12 Deficiency.
What is good source of B12 for vegans?

(03-25-2017 05:13 PM)Rigsby Wrote:  These are a few of the things you need to look out for:

Basically, you really don’t want vitamin B12 deficiency, but it’s alarmingly common among vegans and vegetarians.
[/i]
http://www.methylcobalamininfo.com/why-e...s-to-take-b12/


............


That's a lot of information, but I'll just leave it there for now without elaborating on any of the finer points.

So now we have an idea of what to look out for with regard to B-12 deficiency, what can we do to combat it when we realise what we are dealing with...
05-08-2017 01:46 PM
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riverfish Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Vitamin B-12 Deficiency.
Rigsby, what are you basing your diagnosis of vitamin B12 deficiency off of? I'm curious to know if you've had any tests done, such as blood work or even a 23andme test to see if you have the MTHFR mutation. I'm a doctor who also happens to work in a supplement company so I think I can help here.
05-12-2017 12:29 PM
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