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eskimobobseal Offline
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Post: #151
RE: North Korea Conflict Thread
(04-17-2017 10:28 AM)Mercenary Wrote:  
(04-17-2017 09:50 AM)eskimobobseal Wrote:  It's hell on earth.

Really ?

Then expain why scores more people are commiting suicide in the south than in the north.
Also, explain why the birthrates are higher in Pyongyang than in Seoul.

The West being imperfect does not mean the DPRK is not a prison slave state wasteland shit hole.

Even if you don't believe in the prison camps for whatever reason, and I respect your skepticism on that. You have every right to ask questions. But we're talking about a system that forces people to bow down and worship another man, a mortal man, as a god. A man who controls every aspect of his people's lives, from where they work to what they eat. It's the total antithesis of free will.

04-17-2017 10:47 AM
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weambulance Offline
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Post: #152
RE: North Korea Conflict Thread
(04-17-2017 10:28 AM)Mercenary Wrote:  
(04-17-2017 06:20 AM)AFS Wrote:  Certainly, the superior logistics and technology of the US armed forces, and the weight of numbers when the Chinese surely intervene, will be enough to destroy the mass of the NK military in a matter of days.

(04-17-2017 08:25 AM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  They have equipment that's generations out of date.

The north Vietnamese had crap equipment and inferior tech and logisctics in the 1960s too, but the USA still got their asses kicked and left in shame in 1973. Funny how all that modern weaponery, high tech, and great logistics doesn't do jack shit to help you win in the end, against a population that actually wants to keep their way of life the way it is.

Sigh.

Have you ever actually studied the military engagements in Vietnam? The US military achieved a kill ratio on the order of 15 to 1. In what world is that getting their asses kicked?

In fact, the US military didn't lose a single major engagement in Vietnam to my knowledge.

The US pulled out of Vietnam because the public was fatigued, largely because of the media efforts to undermine the war and turn people against the military generally. And we never would've had to stay there so long to begin with if the politicians had the balls to fight the war properly.

There's a similar story in every major conflict since WWII. The military is winning big, has the enemy on the ropes, and then gets reined in by pussy politicians. 5-10 years later, because the military wasn't allowed to finish the job, something awful rises from the ashes. If we'd stick around and salt the ground the way we should, that shit wouldn't happen.

Gosh, it's almost as if the real problem with our warfighting efforts is the gutless politicians and the biased, anti-American media!

I'm frankly sick of ignorant people shitting on the US military for "losing" wars that were lost everywhere but the battlefield! US soldiers and marines do the best they can with the hand they're dealt--usually hobbled and with one hand tied behind their backs--and rarely lose, but politicians consistently shit the wins away by unearthing the goalposts and running them to some other part of the field.

No military will ever "win" if you put them in situations where winning isn't even an option. You'd have to be a damn fool not to see that.
04-17-2017 10:58 AM
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HighSpeed_LowDrag Offline
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Post: #153
RE: North Korea Conflict Thread
Trump appears to be upping the ante on North Korea: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-04-17...ula-yonhap

Quote:According to a report by South Korea's primary news outlet, Yonhap, the Pentagon has directed a total of three US aircraft carriers toward the Korean Peninsula, citing a South Korean government source.

Yonhap reports that in addition to the CVN-70 Carl Vinson, which is expected to arrive off the South Korean coast on April 25, the CVN-76 Ronald Reagan - currently in home port in Yokosuka, Japan - and the CVN-68 Nimitz carrier group - currently undergoing final pre-deployment assessment, Composite Training Unit Exercise off Oregon - will enter the Sea of Japan next week. According to the senior government official. the US and South Korea are discussing joint drills, which will include the three aircraft carriers and other ships.

USS Carl Vinson, surrounded by a fleet of US warships, was sent by Washington toward the Korean Peninsula in the beginning of April.

While details are scarce, and we would urge confirmation from US-based sources, Yonhap also reports that according to the government source the operation of three aircraft carriers in the same location is unusual, and demonstrates the US commitment to North Korea. Other sources said the Trump administration is demonstrating deterrence by acting on its behalf. "We expect it to be completely different from the previous administration."

On Sunday, Pyongyang launched an unidentified projectile, but the test reportedly failed. South Korea's Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS) stated that the attempted launch was conducted from the area near North Korea's eastern port city of Sinpo, but likely ended in a failure.

[Image: updated-naval-update-041217_0.png]

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04-17-2017 11:10 AM
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Post: #154
RE: North Korea Conflict Thread
(04-17-2017 10:28 AM)Mercenary Wrote:  ...
(04-17-2017 09:50 AM)eskimobobseal Wrote:  It's hell on earth.

Really ?

Then expain why scores more people are commiting suicide in the south than in the north.
Also, explain why the birthrates are higher in Pyongyang than in Seoul.

Just curious.

Where do the suicide statistics for NK come from?

I wouldn't be like a totalitarian communist regime to massage statistics, would it? Perhaps there are a lot North Koreans "self executing for the crime of a lack of patriotic zeal". I'm pretty sure that comes under a different heading.
04-17-2017 11:13 AM
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Post: #155
RE: North Korea Conflict Thread
(04-17-2017 09:09 AM)Seth_Rose Wrote:  China will not let NK fall otherwise they'll have US troops on their borders.

Need more progressive thinking then. Sleepy

Never say never. Trump is a deal-maker.

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04-17-2017 11:24 AM
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Samseau Offline
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Post: #156
RE: North Korea Conflict Thread
(04-17-2017 10:28 AM)Mercenary Wrote:  
(04-17-2017 09:50 AM)eskimobobseal Wrote:  It's hell on earth.

Really ?

Then expain why scores more people are commiting suicide in the south than in the north.
Also, explain why the birthrates are higher in Pyongyang than in Seoul.

Why does SK have double the population of NK? While I agree that Communist shitholes tend to preserve social ties better than "modern" democracies, there's no denying that quality of life is far better in the modern world. People have their material needs met at the expense of their spiritual and social needs, which is still ultimately superior.

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04-17-2017 01:54 PM
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CaptainChardonnay Away
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Post: #157
RE: North Korea Conflict Thread
Watched these two documentaries yesterday

You can see a dead body of someone trying to escape in this one. Goes on to show a guy offering to sell heroin to the film crew and saying the NK government regularly gives heroin to its population.




Not only heroin but NK also make Meth. This one doesn't surprise me as giving your starving population meth is a good way to keep them working.




Also watched this one






04-17-2017 02:22 PM
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Enigma Offline
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Post: #158
RE: North Korea Conflict Thread
From Marx to Mao to Pol Pot, one of the goals of communism is and has been to reduce or destroy the family. The fact that people are claiming the opposite shows a complete lack of understanding of communist societies.

https://chinachange.org/2011/03/17/the-c...under-mao/

Quote:Mao saw the clan and the family as institutions that kept the peasants oppressed so he issued several policies to break down the family structure. Families were made to eat in cafeterias; which meant no home needed a kitchen, children were raised in daycare centers instead of being looked after by relatives, parents were cremated instead of buried, and the ancestor tablets (family records) and ancestral halls were destroyed in the Cultural Revolution.

Mao’s attempts to remove the family from the center of Chinese life ultimately failed, but not before destroying a few aspects of traditional culture.

When the ancestral temples were destroyed most families lost the records of their extended family. This has lead to a major shift in China, family is now seen as the 3 living generations, beyond that is largely forgotten. My friend is a devout communist and an ardent defender of the party (the one who wrote about joining the party), but the loss of his family’s history is one act that he has not forgiven Mao for. The temples have not been rebuilt, and most ancestor worship has disappeared.

The Communists changed family in another fundamental way by giving Chinese women the same rights as Chinese men. This means that far more women are now working outside the home, and women now also exercise their right to divorce. This empowerment has changed how parents view their offspring, as it is now thought better to have a daughter than a son if you want to ensure that you will be taken care of in retirement.

Women’s growing role in the work place has left a gap in the family structure for child care. In the communist period, factories built daycares to remove the importance of family. When State-owned enterprises privatized they closed their daycares. To address this problem it has become common to have the grandparents move in for several years to help with raising the child. So it is still common to find the three generations living together under one roof.

Attempts to popularize cremation have largely failed. The annual QingMing festival (a day to clean off graves) always reveals dozens of tombs that dot the countryside. I remember visiting a grave with a Chinese friend. Her family made an attempt to resurrect some kind tradition, but it was clear that the burning of incense and awkward prayer were coming from a hazy memory of the way things used to be.

Tomorrow we’ll be looking at how the Chinese view the importance of family, and some of the common arrangements that seem strange to foreigners.

The same thing happened in the early Soviet Union, Communist Cambodia, etc.

The only problem is communist societies are such utter failures that they can't support these retarded leftist policies for long.

The West's historic wealth has allowed some of these ideals to live like parasites for a while, but even now we're seeing them lead us towards complete economic and social collapse.
04-17-2017 03:13 PM
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RIslander Offline
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RE: North Korea Conflict Thread
(04-17-2017 09:03 AM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  
(04-17-2017 08:31 AM)RIslander Wrote:  My personal opinion is that the US allows NK to exist solely as a boogeyman. The most powerful country in the world needs 'enemies', such as NK, Iran and Russia in order to justify the massive amounts of money that are feed into the industrial war complex. "We need 10 aircraft careers because of NORTH KOREA!!!" Etc.

This is a new view for me. Can you explain the mechanics of how this works?

Nearly all great nations throughout history maintained enemies, even during times of peace. Having a state enemy is one of the most effective ways of keeping a populace docile and united. By vilifying nations like Iran and NK, countries who stand no military threat to the US homeland, countries with no longrange projection of power and who's already limited offensive ability could be eliminated overnight (excluding terrorism, but military invasions won't prevent that), creates an incentive for the populace to endorse increased military spending. The government and their state run media outlets can scare the populace into falsely believing a domestic threat exists and eliminate protests against increased military spending.

As a result, arms dealers, bomb makers and all the other profiteers from the industrial war machine continue to line their pockets and in return, line the pockets of corrupt politicians, their foundations and campaign coffers.

“There is no global anthem, no global currency, no certificate of global citizenship. We pledge allegiance to one flag, and that flag is the American flag!” -DJT
(This post was last modified: 04-17-2017 03:19 PM by RIslander.)
04-17-2017 03:16 PM
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CaptainChardonnay Away
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RE: North Korea Conflict Thread
^This is shown in the book 1984 by Orwell
04-17-2017 04:08 PM
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Foolsgo1d Offline
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RE: North Korea Conflict Thread
Trump is going to force Kim's hand into action. 3 Aircraft carriers, their support ships and submarines? Some pretty powerful assets there.
(This post was last modified: 04-17-2017 04:33 PM by Foolsgo1d.)
04-17-2017 04:33 PM
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TigerMandingo Offline
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RE: North Korea Conflict Thread
If North Korea is such an imminent threat to world peace, why have they never attacked anyone? or Iran for that matter?
04-17-2017 04:36 PM
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911 Offline
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RE: North Korea Conflict Thread
(04-17-2017 03:13 PM)Enigma Wrote:  From Marx to Mao to Pol Pot, one of the goals of communism is and has been to reduce or destroy the family. The fact that people are claiming the opposite shows a complete lack of understanding of communist societies.

https://chinachange.org/2011/03/17/the-c...under-mao/

Quote:Mao saw the clan and the family as institutions that kept the peasants oppressed so he issued several policies to break down the family structure. Families were made to eat in cafeterias; which meant no home needed a kitchen, children were raised in daycare centers instead of being looked after by relatives, parents were cremated instead of buried, and the ancestor tablets (family records) and ancestral halls were destroyed in the Cultural Revolution.

Mao’s attempts to remove the family from the center of Chinese life ultimately failed, but not before destroying a few aspects of traditional culture.

When the ancestral temples were destroyed most families lost the records of their extended family. This has lead to a major shift in China, family is now seen as the 3 living generations, beyond that is largely forgotten. My friend is a devout communist and an ardent defender of the party (the one who wrote about joining the party), but the loss of his family’s history is one act that he has not forgiven Mao for. The temples have not been rebuilt, and most ancestor worship has disappeared.

The Communists changed family in another fundamental way by giving Chinese women the same rights as Chinese men. This means that far more women are now working outside the home, and women now also exercise their right to divorce. This empowerment has changed how parents view their offspring, as it is now thought better to have a daughter than a son if you want to ensure that you will be taken care of in retirement.

Women’s growing role in the work place has left a gap in the family structure for child care. In the communist period, factories built daycares to remove the importance of family. When State-owned enterprises privatized they closed their daycares. To address this problem it has become common to have the grandparents move in for several years to help with raising the child. So it is still common to find the three generations living together under one roof.

Attempts to popularize cremation have largely failed. The annual QingMing festival (a day to clean off graves) always reveals dozens of tombs that dot the countryside. I remember visiting a grave with a Chinese friend. Her family made an attempt to resurrect some kind tradition, but it was clear that the burning of incense and awkward prayer were coming from a hazy memory of the way things used to be.

Tomorrow we’ll be looking at how the Chinese view the importance of family, and some of the common arrangements that seem strange to foreigners.

The same thing happened in the early Soviet Union, Communist Cambodia, etc.

The only problem is communist societies are such utter failures that they can't support these retarded leftist policies for long.

The West's historic wealth has allowed some of these ideals to live like parasites for a while, but even now we're seeing them lead us towards complete economic and social collapse.


Communism uses brute force to destroy families, faith, gender roles etc, wheras cultural marxism is a more sophisticated and more successful long game subversion process that achieves these goals with the population acquiescing.


North Korea hasn't invaded anyone, they're not a threat to the West.
No need to bother with them, but you make it clear that if they attack the West, they would lose.

They're not our problem, they're South Korea's problem, and maybe Japan. So let SK do all the heavy lifting here, right now their military budget is a measly 2.6% of their GDP. It should be more like 15%-20%.

If there is a war between the Koreas, my neighbor would be buying a Honda or maybe a Ford instead of a Kia, big deal.

The regime in NK will eventually collapse through its own weight, no need to bother going halfway across the planet to kick the hornet's nest. This is a manufactured crisis.

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04-17-2017 04:54 PM
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SamuelBRoberts Offline
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Post: #164
RE: North Korea Conflict Thread
(04-17-2017 04:36 PM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  If North Korea is such an imminent threat to world peace, why have they never attacked anyone? or Iran for that matter?

Kim is a hostage taker whose power lies in the fact that he's got Seoul (and the rest of the major pacific capitals, if you include NK's nuclear capability) hostage. But a hostage-taker doesn't actually want to shoot his hostage, because that means he's gonna take a bullet to the head in the next minute. Pulling the trigger loses means he loses his power. That's why he and his father never actually attacked anyone, because it would mean immediate and deadly reprisal.

Kim's increasing instability (Nuclear threats against Beijing, using chemical weapons for assassinations in neutral countries.) is making the rest of the world think he's about to try and pull the trigger and kill the hostage, even if its results in his own death. That's why everyone is spooked, and there are movements underway to get rid of him.

Iran is outside the scope of this thread.
(This post was last modified: 04-17-2017 04:57 PM by SamuelBRoberts.)
04-17-2017 04:57 PM
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Roger Offline
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Post: #165
RE: North Korea Conflict Thread
(04-17-2017 02:27 AM)Mercenary Wrote:  Best quote of the thread

Amen for that bro.

Sincerely, this is probably the best quote of this thread, which cracks the Truth out and probably makes most of the guys in here to think better and deeper.
04-17-2017 05:15 PM
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Roger Offline
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Post: #166
RE: North Korea Conflict Thread
(04-17-2017 03:13 PM)Enigma Wrote:  From Marx to Mao to Pol Pot, one of the goals of communism is and has been to reduce or destroy the family. The fact that people are claiming the opposite shows a complete lack of understanding of communist societies.

https://chinachange.org/2011/03/17/the-c...under-mao/

Quote:Mao saw the clan and the family as institutions that kept the peasants oppressed so he issued several policies to break down the family structure. Families were made to eat in cafeterias; which meant no home needed a kitchen, children were raised in daycare centers instead of being looked after by relatives, parents were cremated instead of buried, and the ancestor tablets (family records) and ancestral halls were destroyed in the Cultural Revolution.

Mao’s attempts to remove the family from the center of Chinese life ultimately failed, but not before destroying a few aspects of traditional culture.

When the ancestral temples were destroyed most families lost the records of their extended family. This has lead to a major shift in China, family is now seen as the 3 living generations, beyond that is largely forgotten. My friend is a devout communist and an ardent defender of the party (the one who wrote about joining the party), but the loss of his family’s history is one act that he has not forgiven Mao for. The temples have not been rebuilt, and most ancestor worship has disappeared.

The Communists changed family in another fundamental way by giving Chinese women the same rights as Chinese men. This means that far more women are now working outside the home, and women now also exercise their right to divorce. This empowerment has changed how parents view their offspring, as it is now thought better to have a daughter than a son if you want to ensure that you will be taken care of in retirement.

Women’s growing role in the work place has left a gap in the family structure for child care. In the communist period, factories built daycares to remove the importance of family. When State-owned enterprises privatized they closed their daycares. To address this problem it has become common to have the grandparents move in for several years to help with raising the child. So it is still common to find the three generations living together under one roof.

Attempts to popularize cremation have largely failed. The annual QingMing festival (a day to clean off graves) always reveals dozens of tombs that dot the countryside. I remember visiting a grave with a Chinese friend. Her family made an attempt to resurrect some kind tradition, but it was clear that the burning of incense and awkward prayer were coming from a hazy memory of the way things used to be.

Tomorrow we’ll be looking at how the Chinese view the importance of family, and some of the common arrangements that seem strange to foreigners.

The same thing happened in the early Soviet Union, Communist Cambodia, etc.

The only problem is communist societies are such utter failures that they can't support these retarded leftist policies for long.

The West's historic wealth has allowed some of these ideals to live like parasites for a while, but even now we're seeing them lead us towards complete economic and social collapse.

yes..... and how are the things going in the '' west'' and all the countries influenced by the banked controlled West???

Why don't you go and make an investigation, how are the morals and families doing in North Korea and South Korea?

Why don't you go make an investigation how were the families and gender roles doing in eastern and balkan europan countries during communism and how are the doing now?

I do not dent that maybe some communists had this is a plan and they did it, but we from the '' western'' world and western '' culture'' ( if we can call a culture what has been in happening in the last 75 years in the western countries) have not the right and morals to teach other about families.

'' west'' has decades that is the epi-center of moral and cultural degeneration, a bastion of gays and LGBT rights, with women who bang 200 men and then get married to an incel and than cheat on him again and divorce 3 times and raise children that can not be a man ( a son with a whore mother can not be a man), with men that look more like females and can not even fight against invaders and have lost everything a man should stand for, with a very aging population, night clubs and wild parties way of life, drugs and crazy alcohol consumption, dead families and i can continue endlessly ...

Just go and look in the big cities in England such as London, Liverpool and Manchester to look at the world created by the '' west''/
04-17-2017 05:25 PM
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RE: North Korea Conflict Thread
(04-17-2017 04:36 PM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  If North Korea is such an imminent threat to world peace, why have they never attacked anyone? or Iran for that matter?

In my eyes the real threat from North Korea is them selling a nuke to a terrorist group who'd use it against the West.

They're crazy enough to do just that. They have the capability. And they've threatened nukes many times over. But in this scenario they'd be able to do it indirectly.
04-17-2017 05:37 PM
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RE: North Korea Conflict Thread
(04-17-2017 04:36 PM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  If North Korea is such an imminent threat to world peace, why have they never attacked anyone? or Iran for that matter?

To preface: I'm much more of a Buchananite that we should get the hell out of Korea outright, but this is too juicy a question to ignore.

North Korea has attacked other countries, particularly South Korea but also the USA several times. But South Korea, and even the USA, repeatedly backed down. Some of these actions would be considered clear cut acts of war these days, but SuperPower politics, and principally the US' commitment to Vietnam were such that no one wanted to start a new war.

- 1968 the North Koreans sent an elite Unit to assassinate the SK president. Let that sink in for a bit. They trained for two years and even built a replica of the presidential palace to practice on. They slipped through the border and even made it to the presidential palace. 26 South Koreans and 4 Americans killed.

US and SK response: agree to hold discussions with the North Koreans about the incident

Just a few days later before those discussions can even be held: North Koreans capture USS Pueblo in international waters, hold crew hostage for a year, never release the ship

US response: Issue a formal apology to NK in order to get the crew returned

1968: 130 Commandos land on SK shores to start a guerilla war, kill 20 SK before being defeated

1969: NK fighter jet shoots down US Air Force surveillance plane in international airspace killing 21 crew members.

US response: Nothing (USA was still heavily involved in Vietnam at that point, and again new the real implications of going to war with another country in Asia)

skipping forward a few decades to recently, but during this time further random attacks as well as abductions of Japanese citizenry.

2010: NK sinks a SK Navy Vessel, killing 46, also an artillery bombardment of a SK Island that same year.

SK response: Nothing, just a UN resolution condemning the attack.


^the above incidences are key to keep in mind, that even the US has bent over and taken it several times in the larger interest of de-escalating.

Kim Jong Un seems to be more insular than even his father, who actually made trips to Russia, and met with the SK and even Japanese president.

The powers that be have always played this game, but judging from the above history, SK and USA are willing to take a lot of pain and humiliation to avoid war. NK knows this, and gets away with what they can. But it is worth taking a moment to see what they have done and yet totally and utterly gotten away with it across many presidencies.

Now in the vain of your question, they have not invaded any other country, and yes if you send troops near another enemy country you shouldn't be surprised that you get attacked, but it's worth noting the NK has a gotten away with some brazen stuff.
04-17-2017 07:33 PM
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RE: North Korea Conflict Thread
^ Those are interesting trivia that I was not aware of , but they are hardly reasons to get involved in that corner of the world.

Israel has done far more shady shit and yet they are "our greatest ally"...

All this bullshit about Iran and NK having nukes fails to mention that they are acting in self-defense. They know the treacherous nature of American diplomacy and are getting ready for another "humanitarian intervention".
(This post was last modified: 04-17-2017 08:03 PM by TigerMandingo.)
04-17-2017 07:53 PM
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RE: North Korea Conflict Thread
(04-17-2017 07:53 PM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  ^ Those are interesting trivia that I was not aware of , but they are hardly reasons to get involved in that corner of the world.

Israel has done far more shady shit and yet they are "our greatest ally"...

All this bullshit about Iran and NK having nukes fails to mention that they are acting in self-defense. They know the treacherous nature of American diplomacy and are getting ready for another "humanitarian intervention".

The US has direct foreign policy reasons to get involved in that corner of the world: it's had a mutual defence treaty with South Korea since 1953, i.e. it's obliged off the back of about seven administrations' support to come to South Korea's aid if it's attacked. As the occupant of a country that also would be wiped off the map in about six weeks without the threat of a US carrier group arriving to end the hijinks, I prefer the US honours its legitimate alliances.

On top of that, it was the UN that intervened when North Korea invaded the South back when the Korean War first got started, same as with Iraq's invasion of Kuwait. North Korea is the subject of international condemnation, not just a favourite punching bag of the United States. If it was a purely internal, humanitarian issue nobody in the UN or anywhere else would give a shit. Lil' Kim's problem is that he just can't keep his missiles to himself.

Remissas, discite, vivet.
God save us from people who mean well. -storm
(This post was last modified: 04-17-2017 09:13 PM by Paracelsus.)
04-17-2017 09:12 PM
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CaptainChardonnay Away
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RE: North Korea Conflict Thread
(04-17-2017 07:33 PM)Robert High Hawk Wrote:  
(04-17-2017 04:36 PM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  If North Korea is such an imminent threat to world peace, why have they never attacked anyone? or Iran for that matter?

To preface: I'm much more of a Buchananite that we should get the hell out of Korea outright, but this is too juicy a question to ignore.

North Korea has attacked other countries, particularly South Korea but also the USA several times. But South Korea, and even the USA, repeatedly backed down. Some of these actions would be considered clear cut acts of war these days, but SuperPower politics, and principally the US' commitment to Vietnam were such that no one wanted to start a new war.

- 1968 the North Koreans sent an elite Unit to assassinate the SK president. Let that sink in for a bit. They trained for two years and even built a replica of the presidential palace to practice on. They slipped through the border and even made it to the presidential palace. 26 South Koreans and 4 Americans killed.

US and SK response: agree to hold discussions with the North Koreans about the incident

Just a few days later before those discussions can even be held: North Koreans capture USS Pueblo in international waters, hold crew hostage for a year, never release the ship

US response: Issue a formal apology to NK in order to get the crew returned

1968: 130 Commandos land on SK shores to start a guerilla war, kill 20 SK before being defeated

1969: NK fighter jet shoots down US Air Force surveillance plane in international airspace killing 21 crew members.

US response: Nothing (USA was still heavily involved in Vietnam at that point, and again new the real implications of going to war with another country in Asia)

skipping forward a few decades to recently, but during this time further random attacks as well as abductions of Japanese citizenry.

2010: NK sinks a SK Navy Vessel, killing 46, also an artillery bombardment of a SK Island that same year.

SK response: Nothing, just a UN resolution condemning the attack.


^the above incidences are key to keep in mind, that even the US has bent over and taken it several times in the larger interest of de-escalating.

Kim Jong Un seems to be more insular than even his father, who actually made trips to Russia, and met with the SK and even Japanese president.

The powers that be have always played this game, but judging from the above history, SK and USA are willing to take a lot of pain and humiliation to avoid war. NK knows this, and gets away with what they can. But it is worth taking a moment to see what they have done and yet totally and utterly gotten away with it across many presidencies.

Now in the vain of your question, they have not invaded any other country, and yes if you send troops near another enemy country you shouldn't be surprised that you get attacked, but it's worth noting the NK has a gotten away with some brazen stuff.

They are still training to this day to storm and kill the SK president.





Also they actually give tours of the USS Pueblo to tourist who come to NK, openly stating that it is the only US warship that has ever been captured that is still in tact. The US has been holding back a very long time.
04-17-2017 10:10 PM
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Robert High Hawk
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Post: #172
RE: North Korea Conflict Thread
(04-17-2017 07:53 PM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  ^ Those are interesting trivia that I was not aware of , but they are hardly reasons to get involved in that corner of the world.

Israel has done far more shady shit and yet they are "our greatest ally"...

All this bullshit about Iran and NK having nukes fails to mention that they are acting in self-defense. They know the treacherous nature of American diplomacy and are getting ready for another "humanitarian intervention".


It's totally worth seeing the full list, from a purely informative point of view. At a minimum it may give context that the Korean peninsula seems to just hop from one crisis to the next.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bo...orth_Korea

For perhaps 4 decades, our support to South Korea was based on the fact that North Korea had a far superior army, a comparable or even superior economy, and the moderate backing of Communist powers.

Now that SK has an economy fully 20x the size of NK's, along with far less support by either Russia or China, the foundations for our treaty with SK, particularly regarding cost and troop commitment, are not simply not the same as they were. Quite simply, the balance of power has shifted greatly to SK's favor, yet we commit the same as we always have.

It would be good to hear a credible analysis on how degraded (if at all), the NK war machine is. I heard that their fighter pilots get something like 8 hours of flight training PER YEAR due to lack of fuel. And this is in aged equipment.

It will be interesting to see how this unfolds. There is no easy resolution to this, and history points to the fact that this will merely keep on going like before.
(This post was last modified: 04-17-2017 10:20 PM by Robert High Hawk.)
04-17-2017 10:14 PM
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Post: #173
RE: North Korea Conflict Thread
Barring the institutional and policy related reasons to intervene in North Korea that Paracelsus above me just mentioned, and their belligerent attitude along the years that Robert highlighted, there is another very important reason I would mention towards justifying intervention in North Korea.

The thought that non-intervention is the better, or even the only form of intervention that the US or the West as whole should follow. Looking at blunders like the Iraq invasion, Libya, and other issues, one might be inclined to agree. The case here, is, however, different.

North Korea is a vestigial appendage of the first few years of the Cold War. It has existed for decades under the umbrella of the USSR and then China, with the collapse of the first and the pragmatic realpolitik of the second, they now seem without protection in the first time in their short history.

One might argue also that in a way it was "allowed" to exist by the West, in the same way the US tolerates Cuba. Just like the Romans did not want to destroy Carthage to show Romans what would happen, to scare the populace into submission. Cuba and North Korea are some of the "Carthages" of the West. A guarantee that no matter how bad it gets, it could absolutely be worse.

Many proponents of non-intervention also either have a libertarian inclination regarding foreign policy, or simply just isolationist patriotism mixed with protectionism (the second could be partially attributed to a chunk of Trump supporters).

It is my opinion that the most liberal (in the sense of classical liberalism) thing one could do is to destroy the "Carthages" of the world. No more imaginary chains. Even if North Korea fell into a China-type model, as horrible as it may seem to some, it would be 1000x times better than the current lunacy.

Intervening in North Korea would EFFECTIVELY make the world safer and freer, in the same way when Reagan kicked up the "Star Wars" program and used a lot of tax payer money, it was effectively a measure that ended in more liberalism even though the principle of the action was non-liberal.

This does not mean one has to bomb every country in the Middle East and make them submit to McDonalds and Levi's. That region is more complex and the Israel factor must also be taken into account. So thread lightly.

Americans might rightly tell me, but what business is it of mine? Why should we intervene? Sure. But accept reality. Murika has imperialist tendencies and are effectively the Police force of the world. Some parts of this will be scaled down by Trump. Not all of it. The best way to keep the "Empire" under control is to keep it as stable as possible. And things aren't looking up in terms of stability, I'd recommend reading Kagan's (sort of a neocon) book regarding Asia, "The Asian Cauldron". The quicker the situation is defused the better. Otherwise we might have a very catastrophic war on our hands, better to intervene now and avoid a larger clash later, involving China.

All in all, I see a lot to gain and very little to lose. I doubt anyone other than some pétit bourgeois latte-sipping champagne commies to bother about North Korea going kaput.

"Christian love bears evil, but it does not tolerate it. It does penance for the sins of others, but it is not broadminded about sin. Real love involves real hatred: whoever has lost the power of moral indignation and the urge to drive the sellers from temples has also lost a living, fervent love of Truth."

- Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen
04-17-2017 10:15 PM
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Post: #174
RE: North Korea Conflict Thread
(04-17-2017 11:10 AM)HighSpeed_LowDrag Wrote:  Trump appears to be upping the ante on North Korea: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-04-17...ula-yonhap

Quote:According to a report by South Korea's primary news outlet, Yonhap, the Pentagon has directed a total of three US aircraft carriers toward the Korean Peninsula, citing a South Korean government source.

Yonhap reports that in addition to the CVN-70 Carl Vinson, which is expected to arrive off the South Korean coast on April 25, the CVN-76 Ronald Reagan - currently in home port in Yokosuka, Japan - and the CVN-68 Nimitz carrier group - currently undergoing final pre-deployment assessment, Composite Training Unit Exercise off Oregon - will enter the Sea of Japan next week. According to the senior government official. the US and South Korea are discussing joint drills, which will include the three aircraft carriers and other ships.

USS Carl Vinson, surrounded by a fleet of US warships, was sent by Washington toward the Korean Peninsula in the beginning of April.

While details are scarce, and we would urge confirmation from US-based sources, Yonhap also reports that according to the government source the operation of three aircraft carriers in the same location is unusual, and demonstrates the US commitment to North Korea. Other sources said the Trump administration is demonstrating deterrence by acting on its behalf. "We expect it to be completely different from the previous administration."

On Sunday, Pyongyang launched an unidentified projectile, but the test reportedly failed. South Korea's Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS) stated that the attempted launch was conducted from the area near North Korea's eastern port city of Sinpo, but likely ended in a failure.

[Image: updated-naval-update-041217_0.png]

Just a wild guess....we've Stuxnetted their nukes with CIA malware for some time now. One of the reasons Trump is going for it now is because Wikileaks is effectively disarming our malware. Now or never, with a nuclear armed madman.
04-17-2017 11:28 PM
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RE: North Korea Conflict Thread
(04-17-2017 04:54 PM)911 Wrote:  
(04-17-2017 03:13 PM)Enigma Wrote:  From Marx to Mao to Pol Pot, one of the goals of communism is and has been to reduce or destroy the family. The fact that people are claiming the opposite shows a complete lack of understanding of communist societies.

https://chinachange.org/2011/03/17/the-c...under-mao/

Quote:Mao saw the clan and the family as institutions that kept the peasants oppressed so he issued several policies to break down the family structure. Families were made to eat in cafeterias; which meant no home needed a kitchen, children were raised in daycare centers instead of being looked after by relatives, parents were cremated instead of buried, and the ancestor tablets (family records) and ancestral halls were destroyed in the Cultural Revolution.

Mao’s attempts to remove the family from the center of Chinese life ultimately failed, but not before destroying a few aspects of traditional culture.

When the ancestral temples were destroyed most families lost the records of their extended family. This has lead to a major shift in China, family is now seen as the 3 living generations, beyond that is largely forgotten. My friend is a devout communist and an ardent defender of the party (the one who wrote about joining the party), but the loss of his family’s history is one act that he has not forgiven Mao for. The temples have not been rebuilt, and most ancestor worship has disappeared.

The Communists changed family in another fundamental way by giving Chinese women the same rights as Chinese men. This means that far more women are now working outside the home, and women now also exercise their right to divorce. This empowerment has changed how parents view their offspring, as it is now thought better to have a daughter than a son if you want to ensure that you will be taken care of in retirement.

Women’s growing role in the work place has left a gap in the family structure for child care. In the communist period, factories built daycares to remove the importance of family. When State-owned enterprises privatized they closed their daycares. To address this problem it has become common to have the grandparents move in for several years to help with raising the child. So it is still common to find the three generations living together under one roof.

Attempts to popularize cremation have largely failed. The annual QingMing festival (a day to clean off graves) always reveals dozens of tombs that dot the countryside. I remember visiting a grave with a Chinese friend. Her family made an attempt to resurrect some kind tradition, but it was clear that the burning of incense and awkward prayer were coming from a hazy memory of the way things used to be.

Tomorrow we’ll be looking at how the Chinese view the importance of family, and some of the common arrangements that seem strange to foreigners.

The same thing happened in the early Soviet Union, Communist Cambodia, etc.

The only problem is communist societies are such utter failures that they can't support these retarded leftist policies for long.

The West's historic wealth has allowed some of these ideals to live like parasites for a while, but even now we're seeing them lead us towards complete economic and social collapse.


Communism uses brute force to destroy families, faith, gender roles etc, wheras cultural marxism is a more sophisticated and more successful long game subversion process that achieves these goals with the population acquiescing.


North Korea hasn't invaded anyone, they're not a threat to the West.
No need to bother with them, but you make it clear that if they attack the West, they would lose.

They're not our problem, they're South Korea's problem, and maybe Japan. So let SK do all the heavy lifting here, right now their military budget is a measly 2.6% of their GDP. It should be more like 15%-20%.

If there is a war between the Koreas, my neighbor would be buying a Honda or maybe a Ford instead of a Kia, big deal.

The regime in NK will eventually collapse through its own weight, no need to bother going halfway across the planet to kick the hornet's nest. This is a manufactured crisis.

They've got nukes, and nukes that reach closer to US shores every year. They've shaken down the the US for aid by holding South Korea hostage, I would hate to see them do the same thing with the mainland US.
04-17-2017 11:31 PM
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