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North Korea Conflict Thread
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Mercenary Offline
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Post: #176
RE: North Korea Conflict Thread
(04-17-2017 11:13 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  I wouldn't be like a totalitarian communist regime to massage statistics, would it? Perhaps there are a lot North Koreans "self executing for the crime of a lack of patriotic zeal". I'm pretty sure that comes under a different heading.

You mean like the west massaging statistics giving us thousands of polls telling us Shillary was always in the lead against Trump and would win for sure ?
Or massaged statistics telling us how much women are paid less than men ?
Or massaged statistics telling us how we need to pay carbon taxes cause of obvious climate change ?
What makes you think our statistics are no less massaged than theirs ?


(04-17-2017 01:54 PM)Samseau Wrote:  Why does SK have double the population of NK? While I agree that Communist shitholes tend to preserve social ties better than "modern" democracies, there's no denying that quality of life is far better in the modern world. People have their material needs met at the expense of their spiritual and social needs, which is still ultimately superior.

I'd have to know the starting population stats of both north and south at the end of the Korean war in 1953 to give you a better answer to that. If the DPRK started out with a much smaller population to begin with, then it's obvious that they will remain behind for some time. Birth rates in the south only started dropping in the last 20 to 30 years or so with the rise of feminism. If current trends continue without any political changes, illnesses or wars, you will see the 2 populations even out in 30 to 50 years.

On a seperate note, the ROK (south Korea) got a lot of money after the end of the Korean war in 1953 for reconstruction and food from USA in exchange for a permanent US military presence there and vast influence in their political spheres.

The DPRK was supposed to get the same type of financial and food aid from the Soviet Union, but Stalin died a few months before the Korean war ended, so not sure what kind of reconstruction aid the north actually got in the end. Did the communists in Korea arrest and kill lots of their own people and commit atrocities to consolidate power between 1945 and 1953 ? Most likely, but the lower post war demographic catastrophe in the north had other causes. Thousands (possibily millions) of Koreans in the DPRK died after the war ended in 1953 due to lack of housing (destroyed in the war) and food shortages.
(This post was last modified: 04-18-2017 02:18 AM by Mercenary.)
04-18-2017 02:17 AM
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Mercenary Offline
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Post: #177
RE: North Korea Conflict Thread
Official position of the DPRK about the current standoff with the USA in an interview with the British BBC on the 17th of April 2017:







The man references the recent shootings in Cleveland, USA @ min 1:38.
(This post was last modified: 04-18-2017 02:36 AM by Mercenary.)
04-18-2017 02:33 AM
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Leonard D Neubache Offline
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Post: #178
RE: North Korea Conflict Thread
(04-18-2017 02:17 AM)Mercenary Wrote:  
(04-17-2017 11:13 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  I wouldn't be like a totalitarian communist regime to massage statistics, would it? Perhaps there are a lot North Koreans "self executing for the crime of a lack of patriotic zeal". I'm pretty sure that comes under a different heading.

You mean like the west massaging statistics giving us thousands of polls telling us Shillary was always in the lead against Trump and would win for sure ?
Or massaged statistics telling us how much women are paid less than men ?
Or massaged statistics telling us how we need to pay carbon taxes cause of obvious climate change ?
What makes you think our statistics are no less massaged than theirs ?
...

Excellent. I'm glad you admit that their statistics on suicide are likely as fake as our statistics the wage gap.

As such I should thank you to stop presuming that NK is some sort of knight in shining armor.

Even Bigbird, globalist PBS shill that he is, still provides an accurate account of how to count to ten.

Just because NK attrocities serve a narrative doesn't make them untrue.
(This post was last modified: 04-18-2017 04:28 AM by Leonard D Neubache.)
04-18-2017 04:21 AM
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Arado Offline
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Post: #179
RE: North Korea Conflict Thread
If North Korea wasn't the hellhole that we make it out to be, then couldn't they promote more tourism from abroad to disprove Western misconceptions? I'm sure there are ways to do it while minimizing security risks.

Sure the media lies a lot, but there has to be some limit to how much we distrust what we are told. It has to end somewhere.
04-18-2017 07:43 AM
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Foolsgo1d Offline
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Post: #180
RE: North Korea Conflict Thread
Letting in Westerners enmasse undermines the authority of the state in NK. Not only that but they're paranoid over spies.
04-18-2017 08:18 AM
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Belgrano Offline
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Post: #181
RE: North Korea Conflict Thread
North Korean Soldiers Face Death Penalty for Mocking Kim Jong-Un

Quote:A group of North Korean soldiers and officers has made the unsurprising discovery that dictator Kim Jong-un does not have a sense of humor.

After “slandering” the dictator with jokes that compared him to a mental patient and a small child, troops from the Second Army Corps have been arrested and investigated (two steps which usually occur in that order in North Korea). A source told Radio Free Asia they will be “severely punished,” possibly with the death penalty.

Another jest reported by UPI mocks Kim Jong-un as “Kim Squared” because he is crazier than his father Kim Jong-il and grandfather Kim Il-sung combined. That one probably gets bonus points in the North Korean “justice” system for mocking the entire ruling family at once.

The story prompts interest beyond the immediate “what were these guys thinking?” reaction because UPI reports there are signs of Kim’s growing unpopularity across the country. Other military units are growing nervous about the possibility of scapegoating or loyalty purges. Leaflets calling for Kim’s overthrow were found in one city, while anti-Kim graffiti was sprayed across buildings in another.

According to the Christian Post, the graffiti called for Kim Jong-un to be “punished” as an “enemy of the people.” The government responded by declaring, “Those who try to challenge the Sun will never survive.”

Kim² !
Laugh

So despite the totalitarian mass brainwashing of the North Korean people, fatty still can't manage to be popular.
(This post was last modified: 04-18-2017 08:32 AM by Belgrano.)
04-18-2017 08:29 AM
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Post: #182
RE: North Korea Conflict Thread
A good interview with Chomsky on recent political developments. He starts talking about North Korea at the 16:00 minute mark for those who are interested.

A couple of interesting points made by Chomsky:

1: The North Korean govt, despite how horrible it may or may not be, has been following a rational, tit-for-tat approach with the US/West.

2: In 2005, the NK proposed a "non-aggression" pact with the US, agreeing to halt its nuke development in return for an end to hostile threats, sanctions, and other nonsense. Bush refused to sign any such agreement. So did Obama.





You have a country in the world (the US) operating outside of the confines of international law and bombing sovereign nations whenever it wishes.

Is it any wonder that places like NK have developed a self-defense strategy that might seem drastic?
(This post was last modified: 04-18-2017 06:20 PM by TigerMandingo.)
04-18-2017 06:19 PM
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Paracelsus Offline
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Post: #183
RE: North Korea Conflict Thread
(04-18-2017 06:19 PM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  2: In 2005, the NK proposed a "non-aggression" pact with the US, agreeing to halt its nuke development in return for an end to hostile threats, sanctions, and other nonsense. Bush refused to sign any such agreement. So did Obama.

Did Captain Chomsky mention how dumb signing such a document would be since it would then free North Korea to go to war against South Korea, given it's the defence treaty with South Korea that allows it to continue to exist?

North Korea wasn't assembling Special Forces teams to assassinate the US President.

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04-18-2017 07:08 PM
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Post: #184
RE: North Korea Conflict Thread
Quote: ‘We are sending an armada’:
Trump ready to eliminate N. Korean ‘menace’ with or without China


13 Apr, 2017

https://www.rt.com/news/384554-us-armada...ea-menace/

“We are sending an armada. Very powerful,” Trump told Fox. “We have submarines. Very powerful. Far more powerful than the aircraft carrier. That I can tell you.” Trump said, referring to North Korean leader Kim Jong-un, that “he is doing the wrong thing.”


[Image: giphy.gif]


Quote:US 'armada' headed away from N Korea

19 April 2017

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-39638012

A US aircraft carrier and other warships did not sail towards North Korea - but went in the opposite direction, it has emerged. The US Navy said on 8 April that Carl Vinson strike group was headed towards the Korean peninsula, as a deterrence measure. Last week President Trump said an "armada" was being sent. But the group was actually farther away over the weekend, moving through the Sunda Strait into the Indian Ocean.

The US now says it first had to complete training with Australia. The strike group was now "proceeding to the Western Pacific as ordered", the US military's Pacific Command said on Tuesday. It is not clear whether the failure to arrive was a deliberate deception, perhaps designed to frighten North Korea's leader Kim Jong-un, a change of plan or simple miscommunication, the BBC's Korea correspondent Stephen Evans says.

[Image: 130194_story__NW9KxB8.jpg]
(This post was last modified: 04-19-2017 01:32 AM by Mercenary.)
04-19-2017 01:03 AM
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Post: #185
RE: North Korea Conflict Thread
(04-17-2017 02:27 AM)Mercenary Wrote:  I find it surprising the number of respected and intelligent forum members who buy into whatever lies the media tells you about this tiny country who most of you have never have visted.


How about you put your money where your mouth is?

Move to North Korea. Live there for 10 years, write a data sheet every year, with pictures and video documentation.

Until then, maybe you should stick to keeping your foot out of your mouth.

Isaiah 4:1
04-19-2017 01:39 AM
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Simeon_Strangelight Offline
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Post: #186
RE: North Korea Conflict Thread
(04-19-2017 01:39 AM)CJ_W Wrote:  
(04-17-2017 02:27 AM)Mercenary Wrote:  I find it surprising the number of respected and intelligent forum members who buy into whatever lies the media tells you about this tiny country who most of you have never have visted.


How about you put your money where your mouth is?

Move to North Korea. Live there for 10 years, write a data sheet every year, with pictures and video documentation.

Until then, maybe you should stick to keeping your foot out of your mouth.

Agreed - we base our perception of North Korea on the real experiences in the communist countries in Europe. This country has terrible agricultural possibilities, is cut off from every support and blasts the majority of their economic power into advanced weaponry and the military.

Communism is by itself so incredibly bad that Canada and other Western states had to feed the Soviet Union for a long time because it produced too little food (basic staples were lacking). And that is the fucking Soviet Union!

Also the accounts of the former North Koreans are credible enough - the individuals are mostly shell-shocked and traumatized.

North Korea is certainly a hell-hole - as for them being able to attack China or the US ever - no that will never happen and is fake-news.
04-19-2017 01:47 AM
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Gmac Offline
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Post: #187
RE: North Korea Conflict Thread
Mercenary, you get what a bluff is right? Banana

Vice-Captain - #TeamWaitAndSee
04-19-2017 05:25 AM
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Arado Offline
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Post: #188
RE: North Korea Conflict Thread
(04-18-2017 08:18 AM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  Letting in Westerners enmasse undermines the authority of the state in NK. Not only that but they're paranoid over spies.

There are tons of authoritarian countries that still allow tourists to come in and move about without having a guide with them 24/7 and at the same time are not brainwashed by SJW propaganda - China, Russia, Central Asian countries, Egypt, Saudi etc

The fact that they are so closed and paranoid means they have something to fear. Let's drop this bs that "those of you who think the Kim Jong Un regime is evil are buying into globalist and neocon propaganda" bs.

With Syria, you may have a point. But with NK? Not really. I even suspect that there are probably many in the neocon/globalist camp who would rather have the Kim regime persist because it serves their military industrial complex purposes.
04-19-2017 06:07 AM
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Horus Offline
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Post: #189
RE: North Korea Conflict Thread
Park Yeon-mi

[Image: yeonmi-park.jpg]

WB.

This girl escaped North Korea and made money from speaking engagements and book contracts.

She's also a fraud.
http://thediplomat.com/2014/12/the-stran...onmi-park/

North Korea is clearly a shit hole, but it's important to remain skeptical of the more outlandish stories from defectors. Such as stories about generals being executed by dogs or anti aircraft artillery. None of these stories can be verified other than from the stories of defectors or South Korean "intelligence." Perhaps they happened, perhaps they didn't.

Also, Kim Jun Un looks like a spoilt chubby baby.
04-19-2017 07:33 AM
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Leonard D Neubache Offline
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RE: North Korea Conflict Thread
In the crazy haze of international politics, I just hope this educational animated autobiography can help some my fellow members to join the dots more efficiently.







(This post was last modified: 04-19-2017 09:19 AM by Leonard D Neubache.)
04-19-2017 09:14 AM
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Traktor Offline
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RE: North Korea Conflict Thread
(04-19-2017 01:39 AM)CJ_W Wrote:  
(04-17-2017 02:27 AM)Mercenary Wrote:  I find it surprising the number of respected and intelligent forum members who buy into whatever lies the media tells you about this tiny country who most of you have never have visted.


How about you put your money where your mouth is?

Move to North Korea. Live there for 10 years, write a data sheet every year, with pictures and video documentation.

Until then, maybe you should stick to keeping your foot out of your mouth.

The classic fallback of the ill informed when they cannot counter a rational argument. I used to get the same shit about Belarus..

By the way, what does your point have to do with the US acting like an imperialist, war mongering bull-boy. It's not the 1990s when the US appointed itself as the 'World's Policeman' and bombed and invaded countries at will, against international law. Ask the Serbs and Iraqis how they fared when 'democracy' came a knocking.

Here's an interesting article I came across about the DPRK.

https://medium.com/defiant/a-lot-of-what...25256b51cc

Quote:Less than three months into Pres. Donald Trump’s reign we can already say that there is a non-trivial chance that the United States will soon be engaged in a nuclear war.

The threat is still remote, but all the pieces are in place. An aircraft carrier group en route to North Korea, anonymous sources threatening a preemptive strike against them, a recent unilateral attack on the Syrian government and the dropping of a 21,000 pound conventional bomb in Afghanistan — interpreted by many as a message for North Korea.
(This post was last modified: 04-19-2017 09:45 AM by Traktor.)
04-19-2017 09:43 AM
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Mercenary Offline
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Post: #192
RE: North Korea Conflict Thread
(04-19-2017 09:14 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  


That cartoon video parody is shockingly accurate in showing how Putin and Kim Jong-un and Bashar al-Assad of Syria all team up to fight the USA after realising they have been manipulated to fight eachother. It was made way back in 2013 and it still very accurate.

They made another one in 2014 where Kim Jong-nam (the brother of Kim Jong-un) is killed for plotting in secret to take power from his brother. Kim Jong-nam was actually killed in Malaysia in 2017. Whoever is making those cartoons has either done their homework or is getting fed plotlines from the globalists.


(04-19-2017 07:33 AM)Horus Wrote:  Park Yeon-mi

[Image: yeonmi-park.jpg]

WB.

This girl escaped North Korea and made money from speaking engagements and book contracts.

She's also a fraud.
http://thediplomat.com/2014/12/the-stran...onmi-park/

North Korea is clearly a shit hole, but it's important to remain skeptical of the more outlandish stories from defectors. Such as stories about generals being executed by dogs or anti aircraft artillery. None of these stories can be verified other than from the stories of defectors or South Korean "intelligence." Perhaps they happened, perhaps they didn't.

Nice find Horus.
This is exactly how the media manipulates the feelings of the public...by using young and/or attractive girls who have been "rescued" from the oh so horrible dragons. Just as bad as the dead baby propaganda. Many listen and tune in either cause you are male and think she's bangable, or you're a woman and your emotional buttons are being triggered. We are all subciously being made into white knights by proxy with this fake manipulative shit.


(04-19-2017 01:39 AM)CJ_W Wrote:  How about you put your money where your mouth is?

Move to North Korea. Live there for 10 years, write a data sheet every year, with pictures and video documentation.

It be great to start writing datasheets from the DPRK. I've been to over 50 countries on 5 different continents in my lifetime, so it's not for my own lack of courage or inexperience in travelling. However, you know as well as I do, that is not permitted by the authorities there. But just because I'm not allowed to see what's going on without a guide doesn't automatically mean there is widespread cannibalism and torture in every back room in the country. They don't want foreign corrupting influences and when I look at the rest of the world I understand why. Putin himself regulary throws out western bogus charities from Russia every year cause he knows they are up to no good. The DPRK does not want them in the 1st place.

Oh, and another thing. Most travel insurance policies charge a lot more if you travel to the USA than if you set foot in the DPRK. So if we are taking about deadly risks for tourists, then the DPRK is way safer than the USA according to most travel insurance underwriters.


(04-18-2017 04:21 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  As such I should thank you to stop presuming that NK is some sort of knight in shining armor.

You guys need to read my posts. I never said it was paradise in the DPRK, nor did I claim to like communism or leftism. What I am saying is that we at RVF are real quick to call out fake news on everything else under the sun from Trump to climate change to feminsim, but suddenly when it comes to the DPRK, everything the mainstream media tells us about them is suddenly holy gospel ?

We have more dudes on RVF questioning the official narrative of the holocaust, (which you can go and research all the places and documents yourself now) than those questioning the "official stories" about the DPRK for which we have almost zero 1st hand evidence.

It seems that many dudes here just want to suspend their critical thinking when it comes to questioning the official mainstream western narrative of the DPRK.
(This post was last modified: 04-19-2017 02:24 PM by Mercenary.)
04-19-2017 01:43 PM
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Mercenary Offline
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Post: #193
RE: North Korea Conflict Thread
...




(04-19-2017 05:25 AM)Gmac Wrote:  Mercenary, you get what a bluff is right? Banana

Sure man...I know what a bluff is.
Perhaps the DPRK was bluffing too when they said they'd fire off nukes if the US "armada" approached their waters.
Who knows who bluffing who in this stupid game of nuclear chicken.



Here's what I think really happened in the last 7 days in 7 easy pictures:

[Image: 3F283F2D00000578-4400100-image-a-12_1491913236552.jpg]

[Image: giphy.gif]

[Image: 52188430.jpg]

[Image: 1196.gif]

[Image: trump_china_arrow.jpg]

[Image: CHoYbfOWwAE2eCO.jpg]

[Image: zh7X97.gif]
(This post was last modified: 04-19-2017 02:09 PM by Mercenary.)
04-19-2017 01:56 PM
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RE: North Korea Conflict Thread
(04-19-2017 07:33 AM)Horus Wrote:  Park Yeon-mi

This girl escaped North Korea and made money from speaking engagements and book contracts.

She's also a fraud.
http://thediplomat.com/2014/12/the-stran...onmi-park/

North Korea is clearly a shit hole, but it's important to remain skeptical of the more outlandish stories from defectors. Such as stories about generals being executed by dogs or anti aircraft artillery. None of these stories can be verified other than from the stories of defectors or South Korean "intelligence." Perhaps they happened, perhaps they didn't.

I agree with the gist of this post; on the the other hand, consider that she's from a society where lying is not only acceptable, but pretty much a prerequisite for survival. That she embellished some of the details in her story to gain sympathy points doesn't make her a fraud per se, more than anything it shows that juche hasn't succeeded in making women stop being women (not like that's what it was meant to do). It does diminish her story though, and more importantly also detracts from defectors who actually did go through things similar to what she described.

As far as attention whores go she's mild compared with some of the lies that girls living their whole lives in free countries spout.
(This post was last modified: 04-19-2017 03:38 PM by Lunostrelki.)
04-19-2017 03:33 PM
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Enigma Offline
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Post: #195
RE: North Korea Conflict Thread
(04-19-2017 01:43 PM)Mercenary Wrote:  Nice find Horus.
This is exactly how the media manipulates the feelings of the public...by using young and/or attractive girls who have been "rescued" from the oh so horrible dragons. Just as bad as the dead baby propaganda. Many listen and tune in either cause you are male and think she's bangable, or you're a woman and your emotional buttons are being triggered. We are all subciously being made into white knights by proxy with this fake manipulative shit.

>Makes multiple posts showing pics and videos of North Korean women to create an emotional reaction
>Claims showing women is white knight propaganda

Hilarious lack of self-awareness.

Quote:You guys need to read my posts. I never said it was paradise in the DPRK, nor did I claim to like communism or leftism. What I am saying is that we at RVF are real quick to call out fake news on everything else under the sun from Trump to climate change to feminsim, but suddenly when it comes to the DPRK, everything the mainstream media tells us about them is suddenly holy gospel ?

We have more dudes on RVF questioning the official narrative of the holocaust, (which you can go and research all the places and documents yourself now) than those questioning the "official stories" about the DPRK for which we have almost zero 1st hand evidence.

It seems that many dudes here just want to suspend their critical thinking when it comes to questioning the official mainstream western narrative of the DPRK.

Nah, the problem here is that you continue to make post after post on a subject that you clearly have not done even a basic amount of research on.

The comparison to the Holocaust is an absurd strawman (side note: also funny that you accuse us of being unwilling to question the mainstream narrative, then provide a significant example of the forum questioning the mainstream narrative).

The Holocaust was a single event, restricted to a limited time period and geographical area.

On the other hand, we have a library worth of information and documentation on communist movements and societies spanning 5 continents and more than 100 years.

Even though we don't have the same level of direct evidence on North Korea, we do have PLENTY of clear evidence of them being a violent and oppressive regime.

We also know that:

> North Korea is/was supported by oppressive communist regimes
> North Korea is/was one of the most secretive and publicly belligerent of all communist regimes
> North Korea is/was more universally condemned than most communist regimes

Therefore, any rational person can conclude that North Korea is likely AT LEAST as bad as the communist regimes in the Soviet Union and People's Republic of China that supported it (who killed at least 50+ million people combined and regularly tortured/executed political prisoners).

And of course, the only communist regime in Asia that cut itself off from the world in a similar fashion as North Korea was Democratic Kampuchea (Communist Cambodia), which committed some of the worst atrocities in recent history, and where torture and execution was part of daily life.

By the way, much of the information we have on these communist regimes comes from non-Western sources. Russia even released the Soviets' archives after the fall of the USSR.

Many of the people posting in this thread even live in Asia and have lived here for years, where we get most of our information on recent North Korean and Chinese politics from other countries in Asia, not the West. Hell, even the Chinese media doesn't try to make the claims you are.

What's really happening here is that you have done absolutely no research into this topic, and instead simply reverse the "Western mainstream narrative" and call it fact, picking out any random tidbit you can find along the way to support your confirmation bias.

Your position isn't being questioned because you dare to challenge the sacred globalist narrative, it's because your argument is weak, illogical, reductionist, and blindly contrarian and lacks any substantial facts or reasoning to back it up.
(This post was last modified: 04-19-2017 07:49 PM by Enigma.)
04-19-2017 07:45 PM
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weambulance Offline
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Post: #196
RE: North Korea Conflict Thread
Fox just said Kim Jong-Un celebrated his grandfather's birthday with a video presentation showing a nuke hitting a US city, then transitioning to a graveyard.

There are stories online about it, within the last 12 hours or so.

Here: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/04/19/...-city.html

Quote:North Korean leader Kim Jong Un celebrated his grandfather’s birthday on Sunday with a rousing concert that also featured a video simulation of a nuclear missile attack destroying what appears to be an unidentified American city.

According to reports, a full orchestra played alongside the video, which depicted missiles soaring over the Pacific and engulfing a city on the U.S. west coast. The videos ends with an American flag and a cemetery superimposed with flames.

Fake news, I bet.
04-19-2017 07:46 PM
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Post: #197
RE: North Korea Conflict Thread
(04-17-2017 10:28 AM)Mercenary Wrote:  
(04-17-2017 09:50 AM)eskimobobseal Wrote:  It's hell on earth.

Really ?

Then expain why scores more people are commiting suicide in the south than in the north.

From the very same thread...

(04-14-2017 08:07 PM)Bushido Wrote:  - Starvation, extreme torture (and I'm not talking waterboarding here) and disease is rife.
I could go on and on. Read a book or two about it. I guarantee it will make your stomach churn inside out. Bear in mind this has been going on for decades and decades. The nightmare is never-ending.

Think you'd off yourself? Aha! Think again. Suicide will guarantee your family members aĺl being punished accordingly.

[Image: kqiu9.gif]
(This post was last modified: 04-19-2017 07:58 PM by SamuelBRoberts.)
04-19-2017 07:58 PM
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SamuelBRoberts Offline
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Post: #198
RE: North Korea Conflict Thread
Delete. Double post.
(This post was last modified: 04-19-2017 08:00 PM by SamuelBRoberts.)
04-19-2017 08:00 PM
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CaptainChardonnay Away
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Post: #199
RE: North Korea Conflict Thread
Just watched this one. Has footage taken inside the country of regular people.



04-19-2017 08:51 PM
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weambulance Offline
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Post: #200
RE: North Korea Conflict Thread
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/hom...89201.html

Quote:James Cracknell [Olympic gold medalist in rowing] has sparked outrage for saying North Korea has “got a handle on obesity”.

The Olympic rower cited North Korea and Cuba - two communist one-party states which have been plagued by food shortages - as archetypal examples of countries tackling obesity.

Cracknell, who is running to become a Conservative MP in 2020, said addressing obesity will be central to his parliamentary campaign.

Video at the link.

   
(This post was last modified: 04-19-2017 09:04 PM by weambulance.)
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