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Turkish referendum 4/16 thread
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stugatz Offline
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Turkish referendum 4/16 thread
I see little mention of this in the other threads - probably because it's seen as a foregone conclusion that Erdogan's going to win it after he squashed that coup attempt. He's certainly going to be a full-on dictator if "Yes" prevails.

(My Middle Eastern knowledge is mainly confined to North Africa, so, to me, Turkish history gets hazy after Ataturk started the modern state - I only know it as that irritating "ally of the West" that threatens the EU while also wanting to join them.)

Since it appears civil war is a possibility if "No" wins, how should we read the results tomorrow? Are both outcomes problematic for the West in 2017?

Full Wikipedia article

Quote:A constitutional referendum will be held throughout Turkey on 16 April 2017 on whether to approve 18 proposed amendments to the Turkish constitution that were brought forward by the governing Justice and Development Party (AKP) and the Nationalist Movement Party (MHP). If approved, the office of the Prime Minister would be abolished and the existing parliamentary system of government would be replaced with an executive presidency and a presidential system. The number of seats in Parliament would be raised from 550 to 600 while the president would be given more control over appointments to the Supreme Board of Judges and Prosecutors (HSYK). The referendum will be held under a state of emergency that was declared following a failed military coup attempt in July 2016.

An executive presidency has been a long-standing policy of the governing AKP and its founder, the current Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan. In October 2016, the Nationalist Movement Party (MHP) announced its co-operation for producing draft proposals with the government, with the combined support of both AKP and MHP MPs being sufficient to put forward the proposals to a referendum following a parliamentary vote in January. Those in favour of a 'Yes' vote argued that the changes were necessary for a strong and stable Turkey, arguing that an executive presidency would bring about an end to unstable coalition governments that had dominated Turkish politics since the 1960s up until 2002. The 'No' campaign have argued that the proposals would concentrate too much power in the hands of the President, effectively dismantling the separation of powers and taking legislative authority away from Parliament. Critics argued that the proposed system would resemble an 'elected dictatorship' with no ability to hold the executive to account, leading effectively to a 'democratic suicide'. Three days before the referendum, one of Erdoğan's aides called for a federal system should the 'Yes' vote prevail, causing a backlash from the pro-Yes MHP. Both sides of the campaign have been accused of using divisive and extreme rhetoric, with Erdoğan accusing all 'No' voters of being terrorists siding with the 2016 failed coup plotters.

The campaign was marred by allegations of state suppression against 'No' campaigners, while the 'Yes' campaign were able to make use of state facilities and funding to organise rallies and campaign events. Leading members of the 'No' campaign, which included many high-profile former members of the MHP such as Meral Akşener, Ümit Özdağ, Sinan Oğan and Yusuf Halaçoğlu were all subject to both violence and campaign restrictions. A member of the AKP Youth Wing in Soma called on voters to be prepared for civil war if the 'No' side won. The 'Yes' campaign were faced with campaigning restrictions by several European countries, with the German, Dutch, Danish and Swiss governments all cancelling or requesting the suspension of 'Yes' campaign events directed at Turkish voters living abroad. The restrictions caused a sharp deterioration in diplomatic relations and caused a diplomatic crisis between Turkey and the Netherlands. Concerns were also raised about voting irregularities, with 'Yes' voters in Germany being caught attempting to vote more than once and also being found to have been in possession of ballot papers before the overseas voting process had started.
04-15-2017 04:38 PM
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Foolsgo1d Offline
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RE: Turkish referendum 4/16 thread
I just want to know what he has planned for Europe and the millions of migrants he claims to be holding back.
04-15-2017 05:02 PM
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Extinguished Light Offline
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RE: Turkish referendum 4/16 thread
While libtards and neocons are worrying about Assad, they're completely ignoring the much greater danger in the region.

Vox Day had an amusing post about how Erdogan was one of the few world leaders to escape being compared to Hitler despite probably deserving it most.
(This post was last modified: 04-15-2017 05:45 PM by Extinguished Light.)
04-15-2017 05:44 PM
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zigZag Offline
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RE: Turkish referendum 4/16 thread
Yes will probably win.. i know a turkish chick and she's gonna vote no but me and her agreed that Yes would probably win. Such a shame but thats the way it goes sometimes.
04-15-2017 06:18 PM
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RE: Turkish referendum 4/16 thread
Yes will definitely win. There's too many Turks in Europe for it not to win.
04-15-2017 06:54 PM
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Handsome Creepy Eel Offline
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RE: Turkish referendum 4/16 thread
It makes no difference to Europe who rules Turkey and how they do it. Europe is a weak, utterly cucked glutton for punishment - if it weren't Turkey flooding it with "refugees", it would be Uzbekistan, Algeria, Morocco, Eritrea, Somalia and 50 more countries. Until Europe changes itself, there's no point in being mad at Erdogan.

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(This post was last modified: 04-15-2017 11:42 PM by Handsome Creepy Eel.)
04-15-2017 11:41 PM
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Nineteen84 Offline
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RE: Turkish referendum 4/16 thread
   
04-16-2017 12:12 PM
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RE: Turkish referendum 4/16 thread

04-16-2017 12:44 PM
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Vicious Offline
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RE: Turkish referendum 4/16 thread
The vote is basically one for or against democracy, should the current results hold (whether bogus or not) it will set Turkey on the same course as Venezuela. Tourism will flag even more, western industries will flee the nation and repression of kurds will turn even harsher.
04-16-2017 12:51 PM
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zigZag Offline
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RE: Turkish referendum 4/16 thread
After looking at the election maps it dawned on me that turkey is pretty similar to america it a way. There is the coastal region which is more liberal and then internally the country much more conservative(islamic)... That's my initial perception from looking at the maps though but even in istanbul it was almost 50 - 50. And the part that's closer to syria had a BIG swing to Yes.
04-16-2017 12:53 PM
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Post: #11
RE: Turkish referendum 4/16 thread
Live results available in English:

http://secim.aa.com.tr/

Looks like Yes will win by a narrow margin.

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04-16-2017 01:02 PM
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stugatz Offline
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RE: Turkish referendum 4/16 thread
Well, this is disappointing, but as I was antsy over "No" resulting in more immediate instability in that country, I am (in a way) relieved. Not much comfort with "Yes", for obvious reasons. This is heads they win tails we lose any way it's looked at.

One comment on that Vox Day post mentioned above that I especially liked: "If NATO hadn't morphed into an entirely imperialist project, Turkey would be ejected if this referendum passed. There is absolutely no chance that will happen, so Erdogan can start snatching new janissaries."

NATO aside, hopefully the EU at least maintains some semblance of standards and prevents Turkey from joining. Or maybe they're just stupid enough to let Erdoganistan in.
(This post was last modified: 04-16-2017 01:25 PM by stugatz.)
04-16-2017 01:08 PM
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LEMONed IScream Offline
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RE: Turkish referendum 4/16 thread
There is absolutely no chance Turkey will get inside the EU now. First because the bureaucrats would never do it in this state, since one of the main requirements is being a "liberal democracy". Second because it would take so long for them to get in that I'm sure the EU will dissolve before.

"Christian love bears evil, but it does not tolerate it. It does penance for the sins of others, but it is not broadminded about sin. Real love involves real hatred: whoever has lost the power of moral indignation and the urge to drive the sellers from temples has also lost a living, fervent love of Truth."

- Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen
04-16-2017 01:20 PM
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Nineteen84 Offline
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RE: Turkish referendum 4/16 thread


04-16-2017 02:43 PM
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LEMONed IScream Offline
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RE: Turkish referendum 4/16 thread
"Islam, this absurd theology of an immoral Bedouin, is a rotting corpse which poisons our lives."

-- Mustafa Kemal Ataturk

He's right and his legacy is forever tarnished now.

"Christian love bears evil, but it does not tolerate it. It does penance for the sins of others, but it is not broadminded about sin. Real love involves real hatred: whoever has lost the power of moral indignation and the urge to drive the sellers from temples has also lost a living, fervent love of Truth."

- Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen
(This post was last modified: 04-16-2017 03:44 PM by LEMONed IScream.)
04-16-2017 02:56 PM
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Transsimian Offline
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RE: Turkish referendum 4/16 thread
This is not good, not good at all.

Interestingly, one of the regions 'yes' won strongly in has a very high rate of inbreeding.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/art...9503000716

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04-16-2017 05:32 PM
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RE: Turkish referendum 4/16 thread
Turkey is on it's way to the Caliphate - this is just the next step.
04-16-2017 06:21 PM
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Parzival Offline
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RE: Turkish referendum 4/16 thread
63 % of turks or those that did went to the vote in Germany are in favour of Erdogan. The annoying nationalism of Turks let me wonder why they are still in Germany and don't go back to their glorious turkish homeland.

http://www.nordbayern.de/politik/63-proz...-1.6012318

Quote:The state news agency Anadolu reported on Sunday evening that the Erdogan camp came to 63.2 percent after counting more than half of the votes cast in Germany. The opponents of the presidential system were thus able to register 36.8 percent. The electoral participation in Germany was almost 50 percent.

In Austria, the provisional result was even more pronounced, albeit with only about a fifth of the votes cast. The Erdogan camp came to 72.3 percent. In Switzerland, therefore, fewer voices were counted, where the advocates of a presidential system on this basis came to only 41.1 per cent.

   


50 / 50 in Turkey itself. No matter how Erdogan point it, its the same like all over the world. Populations get split into some equal sides.

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(This post was last modified: 04-16-2017 06:59 PM by Parzival.)
04-16-2017 06:55 PM
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Thomas Jackson Offline
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RE: Turkish referendum 4/16 thread
Democracy dies with thunderous applause. Ataturk is rolling in his grave. Having Turkey in Nato is a complete joke.
04-16-2017 07:13 PM
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RE: Turkish referendum 4/16 thread
(04-16-2017 01:20 PM)LEMONed IScream Wrote:  There is absolutely no chance Turkey will get inside the EU now. First because the bureaucrats would never do it in this state, since one of the main requirements is being a "liberal democracy". Second because it would take so long for them to get in that I'm sure the EU will dissolve before.

If "No" had %99,9 votes today, EU still wouldn't let Turkey in.

This is how Erdogan gets majority of votes from Turkish people who are living in Europe, by calling EU two-faced.

I didn't check last results yet but he got around %70 votes from Belgium-Holland-Germany where most Turks live in Europe. Only exception was UK from Europe, also USA too.

EU signed the deal with Turkey in last June. 6 billion Euro's + visa-free movement in exchange of that Turkey would accept illegal refugees back from EU.

After they signed it, Turkey accepted over 600,000 refugees from Europe but Europe supposed to grand visa-free by July, it still didn't happen and only 440 million Euro's have been given to Turkey instead of 6 billion.

He keeps saying these things over and over to Turks in Europe and how Europe didn't keep their promises that they signed and he got roughly %70 votes from Turks who live in Europe.

Let's see what Holland and Germany will do. I think they should forbid again to be Turkish and German citizen once again. They shouldn't be able to hold 2 citizenship at the same time. You should be either Turkish or German. I hope Merkel passes that law again. So, these Euro-Turks would either go back to Turkey to live or living in Germany but not be able to vote for Turkish elections.
04-16-2017 07:38 PM
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Transsimian Offline
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RE: Turkish referendum 4/16 thread
[Image: heo747uouxry.jpg]

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04-16-2017 07:42 PM
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RE: Turkish referendum 4/16 thread
He now has all the power to put his foot on the throat of Europe.
04-16-2017 07:49 PM
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sonoran_ Offline
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RE: Turkish referendum 4/16 thread
Very scary, Turkey and Saudi are the 2 dangerous players that no one wants to acknowledge. They would rather point fingers at Assad or even Iran, but this mofo wants to bring back the "glorious" days of the Ottoman empire. Not looking forward to that shit show with a country split 50/50. Im definitely not looking forward to what awaits religious minorities.

Remember that whole fake coupe thing that was attempted by Erdogan, only to be completely erased from our memories in a short time frame. Remember the evidence presented against him and his son regarding the purchase of stolen ISIS oil.
All grave crimes completely swept under the rug and forgotten.
04-16-2017 07:51 PM
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YossariansRight Offline
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RE: Turkish referendum 4/16 thread
It was bound to happen. Ataturk was only able to put a veneer of civilization over a foundation of Islamic barbarism.

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04-16-2017 08:41 PM
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RE: Turkish referendum 4/16 thread
(04-16-2017 07:13 PM)Thomas Jackson Wrote:  Democracy dies with thunderous applause. Ataturk is rolling in his grave. Having Turkey in Nato is a complete joke.

They're in entirely because of their strategic geographical positioning. Maybe if the victorious empires of WW1 would have sacked up and taken Constantinople back like they should have done we could've let the Turks rot over in Anatolia. Of course, Europe hasn't done much right since that war to begin with. Now we have to play nice with a new emerging caliphate that's still in control of the damn straits.

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04-16-2017 09:08 PM
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