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Traditionalist Catholicism and breakaway movements (SSPX, SSPV, etc.)
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DeusVult Offline

Posts: 62
Joined: Dec 2016
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Post: #26
RE: Traditionalist Catholicism and breakaway movements (SSPX, SSPV, etc.)
Before I met my wife (Filipina Latin Mass goer) two spots I was planning on going to was the Chartres pilgrimage, and another pilgrimage to east Ukraine. Both to meet potential wives.
05-29-2017 06:07 AM
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stugatz Offline

Posts: 842
Joined: May 2016
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Post: #27
RE: Traditionalist Catholicism and breakaway movements (SSPX, SSPV, etc.)
(05-28-2017 08:57 PM)Zona Wrote:  Figured I'd chime in here since I went to my first TLM this morning.

Like some of you, I've grown increasingly dismayed with the direction the church has been heading, and the general behavior I see at regular mass is pretty annoying at times. It's to the point where I'm actually looking into the Orthodox Church because it seems to get a lot of things right and, at the very least, it's managed to really hold on to tradition.

However, you guys piqued my curiosity with this TLM talk so I decided to attend Low Mass. Talk about a world of difference. Everything stugatz mentioned was spot on, including the dress code (I actually felt a bit underdressed, so I'll have to step it up next time), except for the fact that there weren't many young people at mine. Still, there were a few others who looked to be in their 20s-30s.

It was all very interesting even though I didn't totally understand what was going on at times. I also admired the piety everyone showed, so that was a welcomed change of pace. It helped me get into the mass a lot more. Overall it was a good experience, and I'll probably go again next week. At some point I may also try to find a Byzantine Mass just to dip my toes into the Eastern Rite to see how I like it.

Very happy to hear it. The only comment I want to make is that Byzantine Rite isn't the only Eastern Rite - there is also Alexandrian Rite, Armenian Rite, East Syrian Rite, and West Syrian Rite.

However, your best bet is probably Byzantine Rite or West Syrian Rite due to the fact that those two have the biggest number of members and finding churches would be easier. The Maronites (West Syrian), the Ukranian Greeks (Byzantine), and the Melkites (Byzantine) look like they're by far the biggest individual churches. (Careful with the Maronites, though - since Vatican II, so many of them have Latinized to a point where their masses are almost indistinguishable from a regular modern Catholic mass. It's a shame. Those guys are one of the toughest Christian communities in the world, and were one of the first to fight hostile Muslim forces.)

(Wikipedia also mentions the Syro-Malabar Catholic Church - East Syrian - which seems to be pretty big, but I know nothing about them and it looks like they're mostly based out of India.)
(This post was last modified: 05-29-2017 06:47 AM by stugatz.)
05-29-2017 06:43 AM
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Westcoast99 Offline

Posts: 58
Joined: Dec 2017
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Post: #28
RE: Traditionalist Catholicism and breakaway movements (SSPX, SSPV, etc.)
I know this is not the travel forum, but I am a sedevacantist. I do not recognize the post Vatican II hirearchy. So any woman I marry is not going to a physical Catholic "church" everyday. Which countries/ethnicity would be best to find a woman who is submissive enough to be Catholic but at the same time listen to me and not go to the local church? (I would prefer not the Philippines but am willing to go there as a last resort). The woman doesn't have to perfectly comprehend all the deeper issues of Vatican II, heresy, etc, (although it would be great if she did) but does have to at minimum not dress slutty and not use birth control.
07-27-2018 07:37 PM
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dtpilgrim Offline

Posts: 94
Joined: Jun 2014
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Post: #29
RE: Traditionalist Catholicism and breakaway movements (SSPX, SSPV, etc.)
I have been attending an SSPX (Roman Catholic) Church for almost two years now, probably around 60 Sunday Masses total and a few other Masses on Holy Days. This was also my very first Church. Back in 2016 I was still into the Alt Right and then I saw a comment thread on TRS recommending to attend the Latin Mass (FSSP or SSPX). So I just googled that + the name of my city and started attending. About half a year ago I also started singing in the Gregorian choire. I'm scheduled to receive a traditional baptism for Easter 2019.

The Latin Mass is beautiful but I also can't really compare it to the Novus Ordo Mass since I never attended any. Hearing Kyrie (Orbis Factor) being sung with organ and Church acoustics makes you feel like you're LARP'ing the Middle Ages. My Priest is also excellent, because he's a good singer which helps with the fact he needs to sing most of the liturgy and he is also a great theologian. He is an amazing preacher (not feelgood sappy, but stern and very precise and theologically correct).

That said I am not personally all too involved with the nitpicking of Vatican II versus Tradition etc. In my opinion some of the parishioners hammer too much on those small details - even though I agree with them - I don't think they are the most important aspects of the Church. I was also a little dissapointed in the fact that these were the first practicing Christians I met, and they weren't exactly what I would have expected (very virtuous, very Saintly, very proactively virtuous, healing powers). But that's okay, by now I have made up my own mind on where I stand and what Christianity means to me. To summarize: I wouldn't consider myself an SSPX'er but I would consider myself a mostly practicing Catholic who attends a Latin Mass every Sunday.

Fun aside: I've seen Bishop Fellay and I met (ex?) Bishop Williamson in the flesh.
07-27-2018 08:59 PM
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Mage Offline

Posts: 2,859
Joined: Jul 2011
Post: #30
RE: Traditionalist Catholicism and breakaway movements (SSPX, SSPV, etc.)
The Christian and even Catholic Church is so divided at this point that Jesus would really need to appear at least once per century or so to make clear which movements are heresy and which are not. Because most of these movements recognize salvation only trough their baptism and belonging to their Church. It is impossible for any human being to study all these movements, their theologies and histories and determine which is the right one.

The fact that Jesus is not appearing to clarify which Christian Church is the one real Eternal Body of His, makes it clear to me that God doesn't really care for human religions. This means that either God doesn't exist or that there are multiple paths to God, which is contrary to Christian teachings- therefore Christianity is not the one and only God's chosen correct religion. While Christianity holds many great truths and virtues, no denomination can claim it is the full revelation of God, because God clearly doesn't care for any particular denomination.

The Catholic Church had in past strong arguments for it's unique status as a God supervised faith due to the many saints that supposedly performed miracles. But with all modern "saints" being clear frauds (Padre Pio (confirmed fraud with fake stigmata), Mother Theresa (evil woman that built fake charities), John Paul II(might be a good man but Chruch degraded itself by giving him saint status without miracles)) - all the past saints are under doubt too - it looks to me Church likes to declare anyone who promotes it's agenda as a saint and miracles are fabricated.
(This post was last modified: 07-28-2018 05:30 AM by Mage.)
07-28-2018 05:19 AM
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