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Morbidly obese. Desperate for advice on where to start.
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Tokyo Joe Away
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Post: #151
RE: Morbidly obese. Desperate for advice on where to start.
(06-24-2017 12:21 AM)TheMost Wrote:  And the potato is the most nutritionally complete food there is; add milk to it, and people have lived on milk and potatoes their whole lives, with robust perfect health and fair complexions.

[Image: giphy.gif]

I feel bad for my Japan homeboy etwsake; not only for the state he now finds himself in -- but also for the spectacularly shitty advice from the likes of "TheMost" (The Most what? nutrient deficient??) being haphazardly thrown his way in this thread.

Let's suppose for a minute that "the potato is the most nutritionally complete food there is" -- it isn't, but let's just suppose it is. This (or any other) single most nutritionally complete food is very far from supplying the complete nutritional needs of a man striving to be at his best physically and mentally. Do you understand this simple point, TheMost? I think that even you, in the dark recesses of your potato-addled brain, vaguely grasp this point -- which is why you slipped in the little qualifier "add milk to it."

Yes, add milk to it, and much else. The potato contains essentially *no fat* of any kind. No dietary fat, which is necessary for the production of testosterone, key to a man's libido, motivation, intelligence, and bodily strength. It is no wonder that when I read TheMost's posts I get the feeling I am reading soy.

It is abundantly clear to anyone that has looked into the subject and has done even the slightest bit of experimenting with his own eating habits that a diet rich in high-quality fats, with a sufficient ratio of omega-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids, is the first step to being healthy, strong and lean. Obviously you have to get to the gym and lift correctly, but it is all in vain if you aren't eating right. Everyone is a bit different, depending on his lifestyle and workout regimen, but for most men a caloric mix of 35-40% fat, 35-40% protein, and 20-30% carbohydrates will serve them well. (By contrast, the potato is 0% fat, 10% protein, 90% carbs.)

And note that I am not disputing the contention that you can lose weight (fat and muscle) on the potato-only diet. You can also lose fat -- while maintaining or building muscle -- on the steak-and-eggs diet, a much smarter choice if you are going to restrict your diet to only two food items. Even better, you can quickly shed fat through intermittent fasting -- i.e. eating well and ad libitum during an eight-hour feeding window, followed by 16 hours of water only.

***
Everything said in this thread about checking for sleep apnea or other sleep disorders is very well advised. Sleep like a champ; eat like a champ; train like a champ. It is really that simple, but as always the devil is in those pesky details.

etwsake -- I sent you a PM. Let's talk, in person if possible.

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06-25-2017 09:57 PM
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Post: #152
RE: Morbidly obese. Desperate for advice on where to start.
That's really nice of you, Tokyo Joe. If etwsake wants to meet when I'm in Japan later this year, I'd be down to meet him too. I assumed he'd be a little gun-shy, given how antsy he is about posting in this thread, but if he wants to meet up I'd love to say hi.

For what it's worth, TheMost's advice about adding milk to the potato "hack" goes against his own link.

Quote:Just quickly, here are the "rules" for the Potato Hack:


The rules for the Potato Hack are simple. If you are eating something that is not a potato, you are doing it wrong.

1. Plan on eating just potatoes for 3 to 5 days
2. Eat 2-5 pounds of potatoes each day
3. No other foods allowed (this includes butter, sour cream, cheese, and bacon bits!)
4. Salt, pepper, andvinegar allowed, but not encouraged
5. Drink when thirsty; coffee, tea, and water only
6. Heavy exercise is discouraged, light exercise and walking are encouraged
7. Take your normal medications, but dietary supplements will not be needed
06-25-2017 10:19 PM
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Tokyo Joe
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Post: #153
RE: Morbidly obese. Desperate for advice on where to start.
Look the fact is none of us are qualified to give dietary advice. Which is why our advice of "see a doctor", "get checked for sleep apnea", "report back here" was sound, but commenting on specific nutrition really isn't.

I don't think there's a single diet that exists that hasn't been recommended by some guy with "Dr." before his name or wearing a lab coat. I swear if I searched long enough I'd find a "donut only diet" recommended by someone.

OP's biggest problem is he wants the feel good of guys helping him, but doesn't want the feel bad of being held to the fire when he doesn't perform, which is the very thing that would actually give him the change he supposedly wants.

Didn't he tell you he'd get checked for sleep apnea on Friday? Did he even report back to you on that?.

He doesn't need to receive any more advice, we need to receive his doctors reports, his MyFitnessPal logs, and his exercise logs, weekly, so we can hold him to account. He's bitching out so bad he can't even stomach anonymous criticism on an internet forum on something he started himself there. What does OP think, this forum is fucking magic, and you don't even need to go to the effort of posting data once a week, and it'll still magically transform your body into a fitness model's? You just need a dramatic appeal and then press a few "yeah thanks guys I can do it!!" buttons on a keyboard and somehow your fat disappears? If he can't even do this, he's already done for.
(This post was last modified: 06-25-2017 10:44 PM by Phoenix.)
06-25-2017 10:39 PM
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Post: #154
RE: Morbidly obese. Desperate for advice on where to start.
(06-18-2017 07:42 PM)Suits Wrote:  Here's my progress report:

May 15
160 LB

May 22
155 LB

May 29
153 LB

June 5
153 LB

June 12
150 LB

June 19
148 LB

June 26
149 LB

No weight loss according to the scale this past week, but I've phased myself off of the concentration camp diet I was on and into a more filling diet. Still sticking to avoiding carbs like bread and pasta, but I'm allowing for potatoes and carrots. I'm keeping myself fuller with these, while still keeping my actual calorie count low through intermittent fasting (8 hours to eat, 16 hours of water only).

While my weight has officially gone up a pound, I've noticed a clear reduction in weight on my waist in the last week. I assume that my actually fat content has gone done, but doesn't show on the scale because my water weight and the amount food I have digesting inside me is up as well (as I pretty much had nothing in my by the end of a month of non-stop low carb, low calorie dieting).

I'll continue to eat fuller, low calorie meals for the next 4 weeks and then phase into hardcore dieting for two weeks after that if I don't see some weigh drop over the next month.

I only have 10lb to go, so it's nice like I need to risk serious malnutrition at this point.

I'm also beginning to research a weigh program I can use to phase myself into that type of lifestyle, as the next step after weight loss will be to start building muscle.
06-25-2017 11:04 PM
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Tokyo Joe Away
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Post: #155
RE: Morbidly obese. Desperate for advice on where to start.
(06-25-2017 10:39 PM)Phoenix Wrote:  Look the fact is none of us are qualified to give dietary advice.

No. You, Phoenix, are not qualified to give dietary (or fitness) advice.--

(08-29-2016 12:07 PM)Phoenix Wrote:  
(08-29-2016 11:54 AM)zatara Wrote:  You can eat normal social meals with other people, just supplement them with extremely calorie dense shakes and you'll get there. Full fat milk + peanut butter + protein powder can get you a high protein 1k+ kcal shake very easily. 3 of them a day on top of normal food and you're flying.

Yes yes, all that was done. GOMAD was done. Shakes twice as dense as that recipe was done. The super nutrition-dense liquid stuff hospitals feed to decrepit people was done (on top of other meals). To reiterate: the 5 months ended primarily due to a total physical/mental burnout, such that it was only a fluke of temporary market conditions and some other factors that I didn't end up getting fired.

The Forum is littered with your own testaments to your utter personal failure to get strong by finding the right diet/workout regimen and sticking to it. So yes, if by "none of us are qualified" you mean "I am not qualified," then you would be quite correct.

Unlike you, I am rather well qualified to give basic dietary and workout advice -- and indeed I have done so to many men in real life, some of whom are members here, with positive results. Like you, I am a natural ectomorph. My natural set-point weight for fifteen years was 70 kg. Over four years I transformed from 70 kg/25% bodyfat to 86 kg/16% bf -- an addition of 20 kg (44 pounds) of lean muscle without recourse to roids/TRT or any other unnatural means.

By the way, Phoenix: You felt qualified to give the OP another of the pieces of truly shitty advice in this thread: Take a weight-loss pill. No. The brain always punishes a short-cut: Because there are none.

When you have nothing to say, you would do well to keep silent, rather than 'sperging out, in trademark Phoenix fashion, like this --

Phoenix Wrote:He's bitching out so bad he can't even stomach anonymous criticism on an internet forum on something he started himself there. What does OP think, this forum is fucking magic, and you don't even need to go to the effort of posting data once a week, and it'll still magically transform your body into a fitness model's? If he can't even do this, he's already done for.

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06-25-2017 11:38 PM
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Post: #156
RE: Morbidly obese. Desperate for advice on where to start.
(06-25-2017 10:39 PM)Phoenix Wrote:  Look the fact is none of us are qualified to give dietary advice. Which is why our advice of "see a doctor", "get checked for sleep apnea", "report back here" was sound, but commenting on specific nutrition really isn't.

Well, maybe. The obvious concern is that some of these diets, particularly ONLY POTATOES!!!!!11!, are even worse than what he's eating now. But what he's eating now is pure, awful junk. You're in Japan. You know what those pizzas are. They're barely food at all. It's hard to see how any diet, provided it was even remotely nutritionally complete, wouldn't be an improvement. My own advice would be to avoid anything that's too stringent: no massive calorie restrictions, no cutting out entire food groups, and definitely none of this "I WILL EAT TO LIVE LIKE A SAMURAI FROM A MANGA" crap that OP was posting last page. If you had that kind of willpower, etwsake, you wouldn't be where you are. This isn't a dig on you, though, and it doesn't mean that you're doomed to be 300 pounds forever. You've just gotta take your time.

I would be very leery about giving OP any EXERCISE advice, given that his joints are a mess and he's got god-knows-what health problems. That's one of the reasons I told the guy who recommended BJJ that he was full of shit. (The other is that it's a really mean thing to suggest to a guy who's horribly sensitive about his weight.) But basic dietary advice is just fine.

Quote:OP's biggest problem is he wants the feel good of guys helping him, but doesn't want the feel bad of being held to the fire when he doesn't perform, which is the very thing that would actually give him the change he supposedly wants.

Didn't he tell you he'd get checked for sleep apnea on Friday? Did he even report back to you on that?.

He doesn't need to receive any more advice, we need to receive his doctors reports, his MyFitnessPal logs, and his exercise logs, weekly, so we can hold him to account. He's bitching out so bad he can't even stomach anonymous criticism on an internet forum on something he started himself there. What does OP think, this forum is fucking magic, and you don't even need to go to the effort of posting data once a week, and it'll still magically transform your body into a fitness model's? You just need a dramatic appeal and then press a few "yeah thanks guys I can do it!!" buttons on a keyboard and somehow your fat disappears? If he can't even do this, he's already done for.

For what it's worth, I'm not writing my posts for the sake of the OP. I think he's a little more invested than you suspect he is, I'm wishing him the best, and I will provide him all the advice I can, but if he's not interested, that's alright too. Remember that for every one person posting like OP, there are 50 or more lurkers who are reading the same information. So even if etwrsake doesn't take our advice, someone else reading might.

As for specific dietary advice, I think Tokyo Joe's recommendations are vastly better than what OP is eating now, and if he could eat these sorts of things and stick to it, he'd see a huge improvement in his health. He would also find, I imagine, that the food he was eating on his "diet" was far better than the prepackaged junk he was eating before.

I am a firm believer, however, that diets don't stick if the underlying body chemistry is messed up, and that's why I've been pushing so hard for things like "Lower stress levels" "Check for sleep apnea", "check your thyroid", etc. etc.

But whether he starts eating a diet of real food now while he waits for his sleep apnea stuff to get set up, or does the sleep apnea stuff first, and uses the fact that he's not exhausted and suffering horribly to get the determination to fight his cravings and stick to his diet, in the long run makes little difference. As long as he keeps making positive steps.

I'm a little unsure of how you would get a diet like the one Tokyo Joe describes in Japan, with its high meat prices, and I'm having a little trouble envisioning what it would look like if you didn't want to blow a lot of money on beef. I'm not sure what foods in Japan contain high amounts of good-quality fat. Perhaps a lot of fish? But I'm back in the US at the moment, thousands of miles from the nearest super, so it's quite likely that this is just a failure of imagination on my part.
(This post was last modified: 06-26-2017 03:09 AM by SamuelBRoberts.)
06-26-2017 03:05 AM
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Post: #157
RE: Morbidly obese. Desperate for advice on where to start.
Here is a larger version of SamuelBRoberts link. As a former fat guy, listen to what he has to say.

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06-26-2017 03:57 AM
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Post: #158
RE: Morbidly obese. Desperate for advice on where to start.
(06-25-2017 11:38 PM)Tokyo Joe Wrote:  The Forum is littered with your own testaments to your utter personal failure to get strong by finding the right diet/workout regimen and sticking to it. So yes, if by "none of us are qualified" you mean "I am not qualified," then you would be quite correct.

Unlike you, I am rather well qualified to give basic dietary and workout advice -- and indeed I have done so to many men in real life, some of whom are members here, with positive results. Like you, I am a natural ectomorph. My natural set-point weight for fifteen years was 70 kg. Over four years I transformed from 70 kg/25% bodyfat to 86 kg/16% bf -- an addition of 20 kg (44 pounds) of lean muscle without recourse to roids/TRT or any other unnatural means.

You're not qualified, as some poster on the internet, unless you're willing to post your redacted record sheets of your clients progresses, including those who failed against your advice, or your evidence of formal study.

There's a well known statistical rule called "correlation doesn't imply causation". Even if you had 3 people respond well to your generic advice, does not mean you have the experience and expertise to provide effective advice for 9 out of 10 people of diverse physiologies.

That is why wise people usually go to qualified trained doctors for medical advice, who can defend their qualification with a documentation proving training and experience, rather than by posting reactive anger on the internet.

Yes I'll admit I failed, but I did execute all the advice I was given by everyone else's responses at the time, including from PM's, and actually ended up taking it a couple of steps further than the advice given (datasheet pending) by adding experimental peptides to try and overcome my gastrointestinal throughput problems (something I did go to doctors about on multiple occasions, and none had answers, so I did independent gastroenterology research). I continued it right up until I ceased once again to be of fixed abode.

To repeat what I said earlier: "There is a tendency in this space to overestimate the power of willpower and selectively forget the concept of the bell curve for things willpower can affect." As long as the bell curve exists, and people falsely believe correlation implies causation, generic advice-bravado like zatara's can go unchecked by using middle-of-the-curve successes to deny the existence of the tails-of-the-curve.

(06-25-2017 11:38 PM)Tokyo Joe Wrote:  By the way, Phoenix: You felt qualified to give the OP another of the pieces of truly shitty advice in this thread: Take a weight-loss pill. No. The brain always punishes a short-cut: Because there are none.

I suggested he talk to doctors about weight-loss drugs, and consider them in his specific context. I don't recall directly saying "you should take a weight-loss drug", at most I hinted at it, indeed I even said "I don't know everything about them". There are a lot of edge cases of obesity who have died after receiving a life of good dietary advice, who could've been saved by gastric band surgery for instance. And due to this fact, I'm happy to bring these ideas to threads like this, whether or not poster Tokyo Joe declares them shitty or not. He's said himself he's clocking in high blood pressure, and no doubt if he died those issuing willpower and lifestyle based advice-bravado would still feel like they were completely right.

And yes there are many shortcuts, which is why there's a full time PED testing program at the Olympics. Tell goodlookingloser, who says he maintained his ripped physique with T and T3 with only a couple visits to the gym a month. Tell the testosterone injections thread they're all "shortcutters". It works, it's an option, it has its costs and benefits, and all options should be calmly considered.

(06-25-2017 11:38 PM)Tokyo Joe Wrote:  When you have nothing to say, you would do well to keep silent, rather than 'sperging out, in trademark Phoenix fashion, like this --

I get the feeling you're actually quite an aggressive person in real life when you perceive people pipe up against you. But you'd be surprised how little your insults bother me, so please continue them at your leisure.

I don't apologize for that brand of tough love, nor consider it "sperging out", simply because it's worked before, and many other men (I'm guessing at least half) here agree with this style. I'm in camp tough love, not camp mollycoddle, because it's more effective, and less available elsewhere.
(This post was last modified: 06-26-2017 06:24 AM by Phoenix.)
06-26-2017 05:44 AM
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ElFlaco Away
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Post: #159
RE: Morbidly obese. Desperate for advice on where to start.
(06-25-2017 10:39 PM)Phoenix Wrote:  Look the fact is none of us are qualified to give dietary advice. Which is why our advice of "see a doctor", "get checked for sleep apnea", "report back here" was sound, but commenting on specific nutrition really isn't.

At this point, there is no such thing as 'qualified to give dietary advice', outside of demonstrable success with patients. Doctors have virtually no nutritional training (a few hours at best) and the standard advice given by dietitians is suspect, given that obesity rates have risen dramatically over the timeframe that their advice has been followed.
06-26-2017 10:55 AM
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RE: Morbidly obese. Desperate for advice on where to start.
This forum is great, because a lot of us have met others and information about the legitimacy of established members is pretty available. This makes it fairly reasonable to give a well established member of the benefit of the doubt about his qualifications, rather than demanding literal copies of documentation.
(This post was last modified: 06-26-2017 11:23 AM by Suits.)
06-26-2017 11:19 AM
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RE: Morbidly obese. Desperate for advice on where to start.
I have to agree with Tokyo Joe here - there are no shortcuts. You have to be ready to commit to and follow through with a complete lifestyle change. Every waking moment may be challenging for the next few years. But if you really want to see the results you're seeking, it's like anything else, you have to really work hard for it, both physically and mentally.

It's my opinion that most of those "lose weight quick!" methods are more akin to scams and more likely to be detrimental to your overall long-term health and success and teach bad habits. Still, at the end of the day, the method is not nearly as important as fixing the mentality. Give a man all the knowledge and tools in the world and he will still fail without the proper motivation.

My own battle with weight in the past wasn't nearly so extreme as the OP's but the experiences have stuck with me over the years as an important series of life lessons and epiphanies related closely to self-discipline, time-management, and knowledge of nutrition & kinesiology. It's unbelievably easy to fall off the wagon and to fail and fall back into old bad habits. Weight management and health must become a constant, conscious effort to improve yourself until it becomes an effortless, seamless, natural part of your daily life, and even then, you must be unrelenting.

In highschool I was around 165-170 lbs (I'm 6'1), muscular, and involved in competitive sports. I was burning on average an extra 2000-3000 calories per day and consuming around 4000 and made it look easy. Once I was no longer going so hardcore, everything went to hell.

I took off as a freshman to college and quickly ballooned to about 180 in almost a single year (losing some muscle in the process) living on campus and eating basically chick fil-a and pizza hut and drinking sugary sodas every day. It didn't help that I barely had to leave my dorm to access junk food, the meals already pre-paid by my parents. Of course, my metabolism started to creep due to lack of exercise.

School wasn't going quite as planned and I took the next year off and lived with my dad. I eventually got a full-time job but was still not exercising or strength training for that period of time.

After that year, I went back to school where I lived off-campus and was eating like a poor college student, but I still was not exercising and gained another 15 lbs (losing even more muscle mass in the process) and I wasn't even drinking alcohol yet at this point in my life.

Hardly paying attention to my deteriorating physique, I didn't even quite realize how heavy (for me) I'd actually gotten until I came home to visit my family over summer break and saw my former boss who told me straight up, "Wow you've gained weight!" For whatever reason that struck a chord somewhere in me. After that uncomfortable conversation and looking back at some old photos it finally hit me that I was fat, to the tune of probably 30 extra lbs (195 was my heaviest). I noticed that even my face looked rounder now than it once did. I was never a fat kid growing up, so the experience was pretty terrifying.

Since I was extremely active growing up, it wasn't so difficult for me to understand the "what" and "how" of getting back into shape, but it was a grueling battle in my mind as I had become undisciplined. At that point, I was probably depressed too, but a determination to slim down somehow outweighed everything else (no pun intended). That strong, initial desire to "not be fat" finally helped me overcome my laziness and I purchased some running shoes and started using free weights again.

Now, it had probably been 2 1/2 years now since I'd done any serious cardio and the first "run" was the worst. I barely could manage to finish half a mile. I felt disappointed in myself and humiliated even though I'd become much less self-conscious over the years (I grew up pretty introverted). Deep down I knew nobody was really paying attention to me but I still felt like some fat ass, even though in reality that was a baseless fear and being 30 lbs overweight in the grand scheme of things isn't the end of the world. The self-conscious feelings I had started to dissipate and soon I no longer cared if anyone was "looking at me" while exercising outside.

But I kept at it and began running twice a week, even after I returned to college for school. By then I'd upped the distance to 3/4 of a mile, then 1 mile. Then I started improving my pace/speed, and improving substantially, and eventually was running up to 3 miles a day, 3 days a week.

The other side to my success was that I started paying far more attention to what I was actually putting into my mouth. Not exactly counting calories, but becoming more aware and making better choices and opting to make my own meals (far cheaper too). That included giving up most desserts, sodas, fatty, and most processed foods. I focused on "staying" away from those foods rather than go completely cold turkey, and it worked.

In less than 2 years, I was back down to a fairly respectable 170 lbs. The few "stretch marks" I noticed when I was heavier had disappeared by now and I was even lifting regularly and had packed on 5-10 in muscle mass, eventually trading another 5 lbs in fat for muscle - never quite getting "jacked" but still in great shape. Not too long after that, my foray into the dating world and many adventures with women would begin.

Over the next several years, my weight would see some minor fluctuations, but it wasn't until I got engaged and was struggling with another bout of depression (largely due to that relationship and some major work-related stress) that I ended up in the low 180 lbs range again. This time around, I was drinking a bit too regularly and had not prioritized exercise over other activities. Rather, exercise had become an afterthought, something I did rarely instead of part of my daily/weekly routine. I also had gotten a bit too lax with my eating habits. Now in my 30s, I had to have another tough, heart-to-heart conversation with myself regarding where I was and where I wanted to be. I knew you only had one shot at life and that if I wanted to be around to enjoy it I couldn't afford to fail again.

That was a little over 2 years ago.

Today, I'm back to my peak, hovering around 162-165 lbs and feeling better than I did the first time around. I weigh myself every morning and mentally track my own progress. I can actually see my abs again! Laugh

Since January, I no longer keep alcohol in the house and drink occasionally on the weekends. If something has sugar in it, I avoid it. I take my coffee black and turn down dessert at dinner. Lean proteins and nutrient-rich meals are the norm. "Fast food" isn't even on my radar - a once a month social experience if anything. If I do "snack" it's usually an apple or a banana. I don't even have to "think" about calories and yet I'm able to steer clear of poor eating choices by being aware and mindful of cravings and when I do choose to consume something. I've learned that all my meals are better planned ahead, instead of reacting to how hungry I was and engaging in "impulse eating." Self-discipline at work.

Although I'm still not nearly as big as I want to be, muscularly, I've packed on some healthy weight and know I finally have the exercise/diet balance down to a science.

I'm not a "qualified expert" but I can speak from my own experience and success. etwsake, I hope you can glean something useful from my story and apply it to your own situation. The key is your personal commitment to achieving your goals. No amount of advice in the world is going to help you if you don't actually go through with the actions and stay actively motivated and committed. You will likely have to find your own way that works for you. Set initial, mid-long term and stretch goals. Keep yourself motivated and stay positive whether you are making progress or slipping backwards at any point in time. Remember that most of what is likely holding you back is in your head. Focus on the results, and find a way to ignore anything and anyone that impedes your progress. They aren't important. Good luck!

Vice-Captain - #TeamWaitAndSee
(This post was last modified: 06-26-2017 01:15 PM by Gmac.)
06-26-2017 12:29 PM
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RE: Morbidly obese. Desperate for advice on where to start.
^^^This guy fucks.
06-26-2017 12:44 PM
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Post: #163
RE: Morbidly obese. Desperate for advice on where to start.
The OP is fat, but he's not a retard and he knows exactly what he has to do.

What he lacks is willpower and none of us are going to give it to him.

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If you want some PDF's on bodyweight exercise with little to no equipment, send me a PM and I'll get back to you as soon as possible.
06-26-2017 04:09 PM
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AneroidOcean Offline
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Post: #164
RE: Morbidly obese. Desperate for advice on where to start.
(06-26-2017 05:44 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  That is why wise people usually go to qualified trained doctors for medical advice, who can defend their qualification with a documentation proving training and experience, rather than by posting reactive anger on the internet.

Your entire argument seems written in a haughty, educated tone, like you're looking down on everyone from your ivory tower of righteousness. Yet your words sound like someone using a faux educated tone, or at least they read so:

1. "qualified trained" is redundant, if a doctor is qualified the training is implied.

2. "documentation" is plural, hence no need for the singular "a" before it.

And on and on in your writing.

Stop trying to out-dictionary people, it's not effective.

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06-27-2017 04:00 AM
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Suits Offline
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Post: #165
RE: Morbidly obese. Desperate for advice on where to start.
Ironically, Phoenix has never been vetted by anyone.

Not that he is obligated to be. There are many reasons why it would be smart for members in certain situations to carefully protect their anonymity.

But he's not really in the position to be tell others what the definition of qualified is.
(This post was last modified: 06-27-2017 04:23 AM by Suits.)
06-27-2017 04:22 AM
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Thomas the Rhymer Offline
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Post: #166
RE: Morbidly obese. Desperate for advice on where to start.
Etwsake, were you asking for weight loss advice or advice on how to deal with your depression and your insomnia? Your initial post is a bit ambiguous as to what you really need.

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06-27-2017 05:13 AM
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Post: #167
RE: Morbidly obese. Desperate for advice on where to start.
A Ketogenic diet will help you lose weight, sleep better AND improve your mood/ depression.

Ditch the sugar and starch, go low carb!
06-27-2017 05:18 AM
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Tokyo Joe Away
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Post: #168
RE: Morbidly obese. Desperate for advice on where to start.
This will be my last post in this thread. I am back in touch privately with etwsake, someone I have traded messages with over the past 18 months and someone I consider a friend. He knows I am willing to offer him my help -- including in navigating the confusing Japanese medical system, to get his sleep tests done for starters -- if he decides he needs it.

***
(06-26-2017 05:44 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  You're not qualified, as some poster on the internet, unless you're willing to post your redacted record sheets of your clients progresses, including those who failed against your advice, or your evidence of formal study.

Just so we are all clear here: According to Phoenix, no one on this Forum is qualified to provide basic dietary or fitness advice unless he provides suitable evidence of formal study -- that is, he needs to show that he is a credentialed member of the Western medical/nutrition establishment. The very same Establishment that holds the following to be tenets of "settled science": Men should eat a high-carb, low-fat diet; cardio is the preferred method of exercise; intake of dietary cholesterol (such as in eggs) should be held to a minimum; high serum LDL levels should be medicated with statins, -- and on and on in a whole line of garbage "consensus" that has been peddled to an unthinking public for decades, with disastrous results.

Phoenix, thank you for stepping right up and very helpfully removing yourself from the chance of being taken seriously here any longer -- it saves us all a great deal of trouble. From now on, whenever anyone wonders where you are coming from with regard to dietary or work-out advice on the Forum, I will point them here so they know you can be safely ignored.

Phoenix Wrote:Yes I'll admit I failed...
Good. This admission is the first step on the road to greatness. I wish you all the best.

Phoenix Wrote:I get the feeling you're actually quite an aggressive person in real life when you perceive people pipe up against you.

Jordan

Kid, your knack for arm-chair psychology is rivaled only by your understanding of health and fitness. In person I am the mellowest grape on the vine -- and I am willing to bet that any number of the 70 real men of the Forum I have met in person would agree.

The comedy is not lost on me, or anyone here, that you would label me "poster Tokyo Joe." Of the two of us, you are the only "poster" here; I am a meeter and a doer. I am not hiding behind a keyboard in "Japan" or "in my Mum's basement in suburban Adelaide."

Good luck to you, lad.

Laugh7

***
EDITED to add --

Thomas the Rhymer: Good to see you here. It's been a while. We know you are a certified medical doctor but I am terribly sorry to tell you that you are not allowed to dispense any health, nutrition, or fitness advice to etwsake until you have submitted official copies of your records of formal study to Phoenix. Thank you.Icon_biggrin

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(This post was last modified: 06-27-2017 05:26 AM by Tokyo Joe.)
06-27-2017 05:20 AM
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ElFlaco Away
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Post: #169
RE: Morbidly obese. Desperate for advice on where to start.
(06-27-2017 04:00 AM)AneroidOcean Wrote:  2. "documentation" is plural, hence no need for the singular "a" before it.

An example of Muphry's Law
06-27-2017 11:21 AM
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Giovonny Offline
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Post: #170
RE: Morbidly obese. Desperate for advice on where to start.
I'm qualified to give dietary advice.

Food addiction is real. Addiction can lead to depression.

Depression + Obesity = death.

You are basically committing a slow suicide. You probably feel sorry for yourself and feel like you got a bad break in life...

You're gonna fucking die and its a damn shame cause if you would just make an effort to take control of your mind, you certainly could and then you could be in decent shape and literally have sex with pretty girls....

But, it just all depends what you want... Do you want to eat candy and jerk off or eat right and fuck bitches?

Your life will be what you make it.

No one is holding you back.
(This post was last modified: 06-27-2017 06:36 PM by Giovonny.)
06-27-2017 06:19 PM
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Captain Gh Offline
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Post: #171
RE: Morbidly obese. Desperate for advice on where to start.
When it comes to Nutrition... I've seen and tried them in my quest to be ripped. I'm a lifetime Bodybuilding fan, so therefore was always attracted to the Nutritional field deeply. My conclusion is that when it comes to nutrition, there's something that we don't know about our human body. so many people can't be wrong about Nutrition!

You've got lean as Fuck Asian eating White Rice, not even Brown or Basmati rice, and then you have mofos like me who smell Rice... and gain a tire around their waist. And then you have the Keto dieters looking full and ripped while gorging on Bacon & Eggs... when I get a twice as Big tire around my waist if I eat above 10G of fat per day.

Ran detailed diet test of Keto, Vegan & Low Carbs on myself. And the funny thing is I just realized recently that it's not carbs per say that my body can't handle well... but the breakdown of complex carbs. My theory is that by eating so much Rice in the past... I probably damaged some of my enzymes responsible for the breakdown of complex carbohydrate... or maybe never had them, or not as much as Asian people... I don't know?

My experience with High Fat is even worse! Even by pre-depleting... fat acts like a Baloon on me, and would make me look like Lindy West within 5 days! Even quality Fats like Almonds & Brazilian Nuts! My situation is far from being dramatic like OP since I'm lean... but I'm looking to get ripped with a flat belly... so I have to find my own Switzerland to get there!

Maybe this will help some of you out there who wonder which diet is THE DIET. My answer is NONE! You have to guess & test! Dalaran posted some pics a while back... and he looked full and ripped... while gorging on White Rice all day err day like he admitted on this thread earlier, so He can't be dismissed! But at the same time... you've got Tokyo Joe & many other explaining the science & logic behind the state of ketosis... and the science behind it is fantastic & brilliant... so it can't be dismissed as well.

It does't work for me... but I know it does for so many mofos who cannot function on carbs. So if you're reading this OP... you'll have to guess & test some diet templates as well. If you react extremely well to healthy nuts & all... then keto might be for you. Next, eliminate all starch while keeping fruits & veggies along with low fat... and check. 1 of these two approach should give you fantastic results since all lean mofos do one of these two approaches. Most importantly... no matter what you do... You'll be feeling these cravings for a bit my man. Hang in there... and most importantly... take ACTIONS...NOW!

And NEVER EVER EVER stay inside of your room for an entire day. This one IS A MUST TO FALLOW! The natural movements of walking activates your entire body, and stimulates your mind just by the choreography of balancing your body for walking. Walking was also considered as a strong aid in battling depression until big pharma came into the picture. Even if it's 5 minute to walk around the Block! Be like Nike on this one... and Just do It! Good luck

tl;dr: My opinion is that different people have different enzymes to handle certain foods. High carb & Vegan people stay lean, while Paleo & Keto dieters who were depressed on Cabs are thriving on Low Carb with a mix of Protein & Fats. Both groups are rights since they're lean!
06-27-2017 06:28 PM
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Captain Gh Offline
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Post: #172
RE: Morbidly obese. Desperate for advice on where to start.
(06-27-2017 06:28 PM)Captain Gh Wrote:  My experience with High Fat is even worse! Even by pre-depleting... fat acts like a Baloon on me, and would make me look like Lindy West within 5 days!

Jordan

Ohhhhhh shit! I just had to laugh at myself for that line

Goddamn!
(This post was last modified: 06-27-2017 06:35 PM by Captain Gh.)
06-27-2017 06:34 PM
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ElFlaco Away
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Post: #173
RE: Morbidly obese. Desperate for advice on where to start.
(06-27-2017 06:28 PM)Captain Gh Wrote:  My theory is that by eating so much Rice in the past... I probably damaged some of my enzymes responsible for the breakdown of complex carbohydrate...

That theory is called insulin resistance. It's real. Not enzymes but hormones.

I applaud your effort to try various diets and see what works for you.

(06-27-2017 06:19 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  Food addiction is real.

Food addiction is real because food affects your mood -- and different foods affect your mood differently.

I used to have an Oreo addiction. Then Fritos. Then Diet Coke. And so on. Every day my mind would start wandering and the thought would arrive, "Hey, maybe I should go get some Oreos." And I would. It was naive to think that I was in control of these thoughts arriving. It was almost as if they were planted there. My brain wanted the high it got from Oreos, so it sent me a message that it might be a good idea to go and get some. The addiction model explains this. Although I haven't had Oreos or Fritos in years, even as I write this I find that I'm salivating. Or as they say, once an addict, always an addict.
(This post was last modified: 06-27-2017 07:06 PM by ElFlaco.)
06-27-2017 06:56 PM
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The Lizard of Oz Offline
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Post: #174
RE: Morbidly obese. Desperate for advice on where to start.
etwsake,

A lot of the advice you received in this thread is excellent and all of it is well-intentioned. However, much of it is counterproductive at this point because it reinforces the main problem you have.

Unlike what you and others believe, that main problem isn't that you're fat. The main problem is that you consider yourself a "loser" and you have intense emotions of shame and self-loathing about being fat, and other supposed failures. These emotions of shame and self-loathing are making you miserable and preventing you from being able to solve your other problems (which are really not all that bad). Once you can let go of these negative thoughts and emotions, you will have a much better life. Maybe you will still be fat, and maybe you won't be; either way, it's not the end of the world.

You need to stop this cycle of guilt and self-flagellation. It's of no use to you, and it's not necessary. This is the real work you have to do, and it's far more important than losing weight.

I wrote this post to you about a year ago in a different thread, and every word in it remains true and relevant. Please read it carefully and more than once. And I hope you will take a look at the REBT thread linked to at the end of the post, and also consider talking to a CBT/REBT therapist; I'm sure you can find one in Japan or even online if necessary.

Here is the post from last year:

(06-02-2016 08:27 AM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  etwsake,

The intense emotions of self-loathing that you are feeling are the result of certain thoughts. You feel a certain way because you think a certain way.

Instead of just trying to change the way you feel, you should examine those thoughts. Are they really true, and justified? Are they rational? Or are they completely irrational and persist because they've never been examined, but you just accept them and take them for granted.

Here are some examples:

You're fat, and have gained 30 pounds in the past 2 months as you say.

Here are your thoughts:

-- It is a disaster to be so fat. It's a catastrophic situation that MUST not be
-- I'll always be fat and will never be able to lose weight. So the catastrophe continues and there is no hope.

Now, are these thoughts TRUE?

No, they're not. Here is the reality:

First, being fat is not ideal -- it is better for your health and looks to have a normal weight. So it's unfortunate.

But just because it's unfortunate, is it a CATASTROPHE, is it a DISASTER? No, it sure isn't. People who are fat can have perfectly good and enjoyable lives. There are many successful people, politicians, actors, scientists, whatever, -- as well as just normal people -- who are fat. It's not ideal but is it the end of the world? Of course not. It's really not the worst problem to have.

You have to understand that this is the TRUTH: being fat is not ideal, but it's also not a life-ending disaster. You always thought it was a shameful catastrophe, but it just isn't. You need to examine the irrational thought that leads to these feeling of shame and despair.

There are other things:

You probably think that being fat shows that you have no ability to control yourself -- you overeat and can't control that, and this is SHAMEFUL and shows that you are a loser who has no willpower. And this is some sort of disaster.

Guess what -- again, you are catastrophizing the situation. It may be true that you've had little self-control with respect to this. So fucking what? It's not the end of the world. Yes, it's a flaw -- it would be better if you had more self-control. But is it a disaster, a catastrophe, a reason for your life to end because it's so shameful? Of course not, in fact that is a LAUGHABLE idea. But you believe it because you've never once considered that it might just be wrong.

Further, you believe that because things have been a certain way in the past, they can never change in the future. Again, this is just objectively not true. Things can and do change sometimes, it may not be easy and it may take a number of tries but it does happen. You think, oh but it can never happen to me, I'm a LOSER. Well maybe, but how can you be so sure? What is it that allows you to know the future all the way to the end? Are you a seer and a prophet as well as a "loser"? You just "know" it will never change. HOW do you know that?

And again, suppose it never changes. Suppose you always remain fat, suppose you don't achieve some other goals. Does that mean that you can't enjoy your life in other ways? Of course not. If you let go of your self-loathing and just RELAX you could enjoy it a great deal. You don't have to win every battle. It's best to address a flaw; but sometimes it can be accepted. Either way, it's not a catastrophe, you're just making it into one.

All you really need to do is not drink alcohol because that IS a path that can quickly become something like a catastrophe. There are ways to come back from that as well but it's best to just not go down that path. And of course there is no need to.

You may benefit from reading the following thread about REBT/CBT and reading Albert Ellis' "Guide to Rational Living". All these extreme emotions are the result of irrational ideas and bad habits of thought; if you challenge and dispute the irrational ideas, the emotions will change as well:

https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-28873.html

I hope you find these thoughts to be of some use.

same old shit, sixes and sevens Shaft...
06-27-2017 08:43 PM
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etwsake Offline
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Post: #175
RE: Morbidly obese. Desperate for advice on where to start.
Thank you TLOZ.

And thanks to everyone that posted in this thread or sent me PMs. Thank you for reading my words and having empathy for a stranger's struggle.

I haven't made the progress I want to. When I do, and I have something to report, I will make an update here.
06-28-2017 01:52 AM
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