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The Vladimir Putin thread
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Royalist and Legitimist Offline
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Post: #76
RE: The Vladimir Putin thread
Quote:And she's perfectly right.

However, it's not a question of giving but rather returning.

Crimea belongs to Ukraine, period. And it has since before Ukraine left the USSR.

Crimea was transferred to the Ukrainian SSR only in 1954 by Khrushchev, the majority of the population are ethnic Russians. Two referendums have been conducted on the status of the peninsula throughout the 1990s and both of them showed people wanting to either gain independence or join Russia, but were ignored by the Kiev regime.

But then again, Ukrainians themselves are delusional Russians as far as I am concerned. Ukraine as an independent state itself is largely a foreign invention. Indeed, historically some of the strongest advocates of "Ukrainian nationalism" have been foreign powers. The Swedes, the Austrians, the Germans, and now the Americans. Ukraine itself exists as an independent state mainly because it is an extremely convenient tool for rivals of Russia who want to weaken it (something that US National Security Advisor, the infamous Zbigniew Brezinski, basically pointed out in his 1998 book The Grand Chessboard).

That being said, Crimea has even less of a claim to being "Ukrainian" than the rest of that territory given it's history and population.

So what causes you to make this statement? I'm curious. The polls also show otherwise:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_st...ndum_polls

Quote:The results of the survey by the Broadcasting Board of Governors, conducted 21–29 April 2014, showed that 83% of Crimeans felt that the results of the March 16 referendum on Crimea’s status likely reflected the views of most people there. Whereas, this view is shared only by 30% in the rest of Ukraine.[151]

According to the Gallup's survey performed on 21–27 April, 82.8% of Crimean people consider the referendum results reflecting most Crimeans’ views,[152] and 73.9% of Crimeans say Crimea’s becoming part of Russia will make life better for themselves and their families, just 5.5% disagree.[152]

According to survey carried out by Pew Research Center in April 2014, majority of Crimean residents say the referendum was free and fair (91%) and that the government in Kyiv ought to recognize the results of the vote (88%).[153]

A poll of the Crimean public was taken by the Ukrainian branch of Germany's biggest market research organization, GfK, on 16–22 January 2015. According to its results: "Eighty-two percent of those polled said they fully supported Crimea's inclusion in Russia, and another 11 percent expressed partial support. Only 4 percent spoke out against it. ... Fifty-one percent reported their well-being had improved in the past year."[154]

Bloomberg's Leonid Bershidsky noted that "The calls were made on Jan. 16-22 to people living in towns with a population of 20,000 or more, which probably led to the peninsula's native population, the Tatars, being underrepresented because many of them live in small villages. On the other hand, no calls were placed in Sevastopol, the most pro-Russian city in Crimea. Even with these limitations, it was the most representative independent poll taken on the peninsula since its annexation."[154]


These are fairly dated at this point, but I have read that more recent polling essentially shows the same picture as the ones above, I can provide more links if you want.

As for the point of it being "illegal" or whatever. So was the coup in Kiev in 2013-2014, but apparently overthrowing the democratically elected government and murdering police officers is perfectly acceptable if the situation aligns with US interests, seeing how Victoria Nuland was handing out cookies and John "Braindead" McCain was there cheering them on. Clearly laws are minor trivialities as far as the elites are concerned, who violate them whenever it suits their interests and then make up excuses, so who cares at this point if it's "illegal".

Also that would depend on how you interpret it. A referendum was conducted that showed the people's democratic will, and subsequently the local authorities went through the necessary legal procedures for the peninsula to become part of the Russian Federation, which Putin signed into law. Crimea has a greater claim to legality than America's Kosovo project, yet the same countries that support the Kiev regime also recognize the Albanian mafia state as being independent and legitimate.

Quote:Got a video link? I'd like to see this.

It's from a recent interview with her on state television, I believe this is the one where she said it. It's about a half an hour long but I do not remember the exact time stamp at which said the "people want a world without borders" comment. If you haven't seen it may be an interesting watch anyway though. Here it is:





Quote:I'm saying she made some excellent points and raised an uncomfortable question which Putin evaded under the same pretext of why he invaded Ukraine ("coup d'etat blah blah, Maidan, blah blah, do you really want that HERE?" bullshit).

Sure, some of the points she made were legitimate grievances, but I cannot help but respond to the second part of your sentence. Invaded Ukraine?

Sorry but the only Russian tanks I see rolling down the streets of Kiev right now are the ones used by the Ukrainian army. This whole "Russia invaded Ukraine" thing is a joke. As a retired German NATO general said, if that were the case Russia could easily invade Ukraine in 24-48 hours--especially given the Ukrainian army's poor performance in the southeast against militiamen.

Quote:Agreed on that point, the opposition doesn't need to be "liberal". I mean Putin is no conservative his shtick to the contrary. Classical conservatism (and classical liberalism for that matter) is about minimizing the role of the government in your life so you're free to go about your business. And Putin's high horse and constant whining about the West's policies while he's practicing the same interventionism he decries is laughable.

The difference is Putin's interventionism has been completely defensive and directly in response to Western aggression.

Crimea ---> US-supported coup in Kiev threatens Russian interests directly.
Syria ---> US-sponsored jihadist invasion threatens to overthrow a Russian ally and create yet another chaotic mess (Libya 2.0).

Also, classical conservatism/libertarianism is effectively not applicable in Russia, at least not under current conditions. This is ironically a point that I agree with the opposition on. They say that Russia is an empire and within its huge imperial borders it cannot have a successful democracy. This experiment has already been tried twice -- 1917 and 1991-1999. Of course, it failed. I agree with that statement, but unlike them I do not see that as a bad thing since I am not a libertarian or a democrat.

Quote:BUT let's put aside whether or not Sobchak is a legitimate candidate and instead address the fact that she asked Putin great questions and brought up great points which he didn't address at all.

He just evaded them and said do you want another Maidan? In other words, his approach is to attempt to frighten people into keeping him in power under the guise that Oceania is at war with Eurasia; (therefore Oceania had always been at war with Eurasia.)

- Putin doesn't participate in debates: true or false?
- Putin has been in power for a long time (the immovability of power to which she referred). Most every democratic country has checks and balances in the form of term limits to prevent abuse and complacency.
- People are terrified to even rent a speaking space to an opposition candidate
- Government criticism and opposition is met with murder, imprisonment, threats, etc. Candidates to the presidency are character assassinated by the Novosti Press Agency (I mean, Russia Today) and allegations are fabricated agains them
- Press secretary Peskov claiming that the opposition is unripe and Putin claiming that they've no positive platform to run on. Excuse me, but is that for them to decide or for the people of the country?

Your bring up some valid points about the political system. I think the government is making a poor decision in blocking the opposition from effectively taking part in elections, because given the polling done by even pro-Western firms it seems their result would be pretty low anyway.

At the same time, given the geopolitical situation right now, it is valid concern that the US State Department is probably hoping for something along the lines of Maidan to happen in Russia. That's why the sanctions were implemented, with the hope of getting people's lives ruined enough to make them angry at the Russian government for it and get them to rise up. These "color revolution" regime change operations are quite well documented by this point.
12-21-2017 04:09 PM
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Constitution45 Offline
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Post: #77
RE: The Vladimir Putin thread
From my previous understanding, the opposition to Putin tend to be more anti western and radical than he is.

Further to that what is the model that the Western leaning social democrats are hoping for in Russia ?

Something like Sweden, Britain, France, U.S.A. We are still wealthy nations with strong states, but the cracks are starting to appear and recent events since the Arab spring is starting to unnerve a lot of people. Point is, the whole world and it's dog is starting to view us being unstable.

What are the realistic expectations for what can change in Russia over the next five years or decade. Even when these staunchly anti Putin academics get asked this question, they have to back down. The country is massive and surrounded by enemies, let alone the potential internal groups that need to be carefully managed.

Plus for a cultural perspective, the country moved away from the nihilist 90s. Atheist sentiments are still rampant, but that absolutist orthodox mentality still needs to be maintained, when most of the country is living in second world conditions.
12-21-2017 05:56 PM
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RE: The Vladimir Putin thread

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12-22-2017 01:53 PM
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sonoran_ Offline
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Post: #79
RE: The Vladimir Putin thread




Putin gangster as always.
01-19-2018 01:55 PM
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Post: #80
RE: The Vladimir Putin thread
The way US CIA NSA and US base locations are all over the world.. The power balance is required.. Whats scary is China is another big player now..

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01-29-2018 04:16 AM
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CynicalContrarian Offline
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Post: #81
RE: The Vladimir Putin thread
Very soon, Alex Jones will have more of 'the documents!'.

02-01-2018 07:28 PM
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911 Offline
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RE: The Vladimir Putin thread
The Cyrillic alphabet is pretty cool.

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02-01-2018 11:53 PM
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AManLikePutin Offline
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Post: #83
RE: The Vladimir Putin thread
(02-01-2018 11:53 PM)911 Wrote:  The Cyrillic alphabet is pretty cool.

And it's very very easy to learn.

Many people don't even entertain the idea of learning Russian, because the alphabet looks scary to them, when in reality, the alphabet id the easiest part of the language. At least the letters look distinguishable to one another.

Some of the Asian alphabets on the other hand...
02-02-2018 08:14 AM
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911 Offline
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RE: The Vladimir Putin thread
Well the problem is when there is no alphabet at all, see Mandarin....

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(This post was last modified: 02-02-2018 12:57 PM by 911.)
02-02-2018 12:57 PM
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Post: #85
RE: The Vladimir Putin thread
Pretty cool documentary about the Russian Orthodox Church and the infamous father of 18.



02-09-2018 07:52 AM
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911 Offline
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RE: The Vladimir Putin thread
Goosebumps.

Aleksandr must be so proud to see his nation standing up again.


[Image: 52337a5f53c2c7ed39baacd0a845334a.jpg]

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02-09-2018 09:01 PM
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RE: The Vladimir Putin thread
This is an intriguing 25 minute investigative video by Navalny...Nastya Rybka, a girl who writes about seducing oligarchs gives away on her book + Instagram and how they found Russia' deputy Foreign Minister in it out of nowhere, whom the girl refers to as "Daddy" папа.

Navalny is extremely saavy and smart with memes and social media use. I respect his nous and his work. Hilarious and very effective and persuasive edits. He does a great job of exposing corruption in Russia, but the fact that like of McCain openly support him makes me deeply suspicious of him and his true intentions.

Anyways, Here is the story (has English subtitles):






Nastya Rybka has reacted on Instagram now. interesting one to keep an eye on, especially since Manafort comes into play towards the end of video (Manafort was friends with the Oligarch Nastya was with), so wouldn't be surprised if we have another OMG RUSSIAN COLLUSION meltdown in US media next week.

[Image: SA6KGwQ.png]

[Image: kr53NLf.png]
(This post was last modified: 02-10-2018 11:36 AM by AManLikePutin.)
02-10-2018 11:10 AM
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Post: #88
RE: The Vladimir Putin thread
Just playing with Google translate. The text for the second to last picture above says:

Quote: Attention: where in the video is the most obvious sign of Alexey Navalny's love for Nastya Rybka?) For a long time I was not so pleased) Thanks, Lesch) By the way, friends, you know why journalists so love live interviews and reality shows? When you hear a question or information First, you give out an unconscious, natural reaction. However, when you are relaxed or consider yourself stronger 1,218 likes 1 DAY AGO

He makes a good point about how live interviews are more likely to elicit an honest reaction in body language and vocal tone, regardless of the actual spoken response.

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(This post was last modified: 02-10-2018 11:43 AM by RoastBeefCurtains4Me.)
02-10-2018 11:40 AM
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DragonsandTigers Offline
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RE: The Vladimir Putin thread
(02-09-2018 09:01 PM)911 Wrote:  Goosebumps.

Aleksandr must be so proud to see his nation standing up again.


[Image: 52337a5f53c2c7ed39baacd0a845334a.jpg]

By stand up if you mean run by an incompetent warlord that has broken the economy despite sitting on a shit ton of oil and gas making the situation so bad that Russian women have to go abroad to sell their bodies then yeah sure mate, he must be chuffed
02-15-2018 09:33 AM
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Rocha Offline
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RE: The Vladimir Putin thread
(02-15-2018 09:33 AM)DragonsandTigers Wrote:  
(02-09-2018 09:01 PM)911 Wrote:  Goosebumps.

Aleksandr must be so proud to see his nation standing up again.


[Image: 52337a5f53c2c7ed39baacd0a845334a.jpg]

By stand up if you mean run by an incompetent warlord that has broken the economy despite sitting on a shit ton of oil and gas making the situation so bad that Russian women have to go abroad to sell their bodies then yeah sure mate, he must be chuffed

Is this the Boris Yeltsin thread?

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02-15-2018 09:38 AM
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Post: #91
RE: The Vladimir Putin thread
Putin did the best job you can possibly do considering the situation he inherited. Don't forget he came to power in 1999, a time when Russia was like a drugged-out whore lying in an alley, after being choked and gang-raped. The economy was shit, rampant suicide and fatalities, Chechen conflict etc. Considering all of that, and looking at Russia almost 20 years later, I'd say he's done well. Still have a long way to go but Putin gave Russia a new life, there's no question about that.
02-15-2018 11:55 AM
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Post: #92
RE: The Vladimir Putin thread
(02-15-2018 09:33 AM)DragonsandTigers Wrote:  
(02-09-2018 09:01 PM)911 Wrote:  Goosebumps.

Aleksandr must be so proud to see his nation standing up again.


[Image: 52337a5f53c2c7ed39baacd0a845334a.jpg]

By stand up if you mean run by an incompetent warlord that has broken the economy despite sitting on a shit ton of oil and gas making the situation so bad that Russian women have to go abroad to sell their bodies then yeah sure mate, he must be chuffed

As opposed to western men having to go abroad (and to Russia)
to find women who aren't irreparably broken by cultural marxism?

And as far as breaking the economy:

[Image: RussianGDP.jpg?resize=1200%2C600]

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02-15-2018 11:58 AM
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Post: #93
RE: The Vladimir Putin thread
(02-15-2018 09:33 AM)DragonsandTigers Wrote:  By stand up if you mean run by an incompetent warlord that has broken the economy despite sitting on a shit ton of oil and gas making the situation so bad that Russian women have to go abroad to sell their bodies then yeah sure mate, he must be chuffed

You have watched too much BBC and CNN.


We need some better metrics to measure a country's health and people's happiness that should lead to a believable "QUALITY OF LIFE."

Unfortunately current quality of life measures are absolute bullshit. The metrics make no sense, they give points to countries for "LGBTQ rights" - "Feminism" - "Protection for Minorities" - "Media rights" etc.

However does all of the above increase the quality of life of the average citizen? Does having naked gay men parade the streets in front of children and fill your tv shows increase your quality of life? Does teaching all of the women to cut their hair, dress like shit, that all men are rapists, don't get married or have children help increase your quality of life? Does affirmative action and "equal representation" resulting in multiple sub cultures and ethnic conflict help your quality of life? Does a completely irresponsible media (but that's really controlled by multinational companies pushing their agenda) slandering your president, your traditions and demonizing everything that's considered normal in the world, does that increase your quality of life?

America is currently being challenged by Russia and China who, while no doubt are very problematic countries, are creating a different model that poses a bigger threat to western liberalism than a terrorist with a nuclear weapon. This is why the long term focus is always on them. There is a crack in the global order and both countries have exposed a weakness in the west. The west will not win by throwing money at this problem and unless they clean up their act they will lose ground on conflict after conflict.
02-15-2018 02:28 PM
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Post: #94
RE: The Vladimir Putin thread
(02-15-2018 11:55 AM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  Putin did the best job you can possibly do considering the situation he inherited. Don't forget he came to power in 1999, a time when Russia was like a drugged-out whore lying in an alley, after being choked and gang-raped. The economy was shit, rampant suicide and fatalities, Chechen conflict etc. Considering all of that, and looking at Russia almost 20 years later, I'd say he's done well. Still have a long way to go but Putin gave Russia a new life, there's no question about that.

No Russia has done absolute garbage from any point of view. For an low-middle income country to drop into negative growth rates not once but twice suggests things are being chronically mismanaged.

[Image: 6JRErcD.png]

Take into comparison two of the fastest growing nations China and India both of which have started with a lower base and lower literacy levels yet completely outperformed Russia

[Image: DpDkhOg.png]

[Image: TfuQury.png]

To put it into further perspective if they had started with the same base of 6k usd per capita income when Putin took over both countries would be hovering near 30kusd per person right now while Russia seems to have peaked at 11kusd.

In addition to this capital flight is a serious problem in Russia with Putins cronies looting state coffers and running to London with stolen money. The Judicial system is non-existent and so is the media. You can rant and rail at the Wests media all you want but keep in mind in Russia if you suggest an economic policy that you know could be a game-changer you can still get shot dead for the not kissing Putins ass.

The ridiculous bear-riding and scripted fight videos are also cringe-worthy that only someone deeply insecure with himself can sanction. Probably to compensate for the fact that he is a midget. Russia has and always will be a inefficient country that will never achieve its potential as long as people like Putin run it.
02-21-2018 06:25 PM
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Post: #95
RE: The Vladimir Putin thread
The February 2018 NBC interview with Megyn Kelly

(in 6 parts...here's the first 3 videos)












03-11-2018 12:13 PM
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RE: The Vladimir Putin thread
The February 2018 NBC interview with Megyn Kelly

(in 6 parts...here's the last 3 videos)












03-11-2018 12:14 PM
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Post: #97
RE: The Vladimir Putin thread
That bimbo is terrible. Very disrespectful.

"If you meet every day with optimism - if you confront every obstacle with determination - if you refuse to give up, if you never give up, if you face every challenge with confidence and pride - then there is no goal you cannot achieve, and no dream beyond your reach!"
03-11-2018 11:03 PM
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RE: The Vladimir Putin thread
(03-11-2018 11:03 PM)CaptainChardonnay Wrote:  That bimbo is terrible. Very disrespectful.

He certainly banged her. That's why he softened and put up (a little bit) with her disrespect




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03-12-2018 10:28 PM
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RE: The Vladimir Putin thread
Considering there's no thread on today's presidential elections, I'll post a few quick thoughts here.

One thing I've noticed among Putin apologists in this corner of the internet is that they usually present a false choice fallacy between supporting Putin's regime or being in favor of the EU/US' progressive agenda (LGBTQBBQ rights, open borders, mass immigration etc.)

While Navalny at times has expressed support for LGBT rights:

"I believe we should go the route of the US and hold referendums at the federal level to decide on this issue"





I wouldn't however describe him as a western puppet. His program is mostly oriented towards fighting the gigantic corruption schemes of the government (i.e Putin and his friends) and he also has ties with the nationalist right, so he is by no means pro mass migration like Merkel and the other EU traitors.

Here he is discussing Russia's migration problem, comparing some recent migrant riots in Moscow with what goes on in Europe. He calls this a direct consequence of the government's visa policies and suggests implementing a visa regime for central Asian countries. He warns that the children of these labour migrants will still be culturally foreign but will have stronger demands than their parents:





Overall, I'm not saying he's the ideal candidate or that he'd sort out all of Russia's problems but rather that this praise of Putin on certain right-leaning (and surprisingly also left-leaning) discussion groups is largely unmerited.

While things have certainly improved since the 90s as some members have pointed out, much of the country is still light years away in terms of living standards from even those of modest European economies like that of Spain for example.

Russia has essentially 2 main problems:

- Huge military spending (3rd highest in the world as per % of GDP, only behind Israel and Saudi Arabia)

- Monumental levels of corruption at all levels of society

While the military spending can somewhat be justified (largest country in the world, plenty of borders to defend, natural response to NATO expansion etc.) the corruption problem is nothing but a widespread theft of the national wealth that is going entirely into the pockets of Putin's entourage.

Here's a quote from the book "Nothing is true and everything is possible: Adventures in modern Russia", that best describes the government's practice:

Quote:The latest economic model is to create 'hyper-projects', which can act as vehicles for siphoning off the budget. The cost for the Russian Winter Olympics in Sochi was £30 billion, making it £18 billion more expensive than the previous summer games in London, and five times more expensive than any Winter Olympics ever.

Other examples include the Skolkovo innovation center (branded as "Russia's sillicon valley) or the new football stadiums for the 2018 world cup.

At the very best, all of this is happening without Putin being able to do anything about it, due to the oligarchs being too powerful, and at worst (and most likely), it's Putin himself who is directing the whole thing.

All of this while, much of Russia looks like a dystopian shithole from another century and the average national salary is a meagre 600$ a month, which is laughable for a country that is rich in oil and natural resources.

Just for the record, I'm far from being a russophobe and I love their people, language and culture, but considering Russia could have similar living standards to those of rich western countries, I don't see what is so great about Putin's legacy. I understand those that recognise the enormous difficulties in running such a complex country but at most, this would just speak of a lack of better candidates and not so much of Putin's good management over the years. If you look beyond the funny memes, articulate speeches and carefully orchestrated expressions of masculinity, Putin leaves barely a mediocre record, with much of the country having a lot of catching up to do with the 1st world.

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(This post was last modified: 03-18-2018 11:26 AM by Gopnik.)
03-18-2018 11:01 AM
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Post: #100
RE: The Vladimir Putin thread
As expected, Putin won comfortably.

Quote:Russia election: Vladimir Putin wins by big margin
Vladimir Putin will lead Russia for another six years, after securing an expected victory in the presidential election.

With more than half of ballots counted, he had received 75% of the vote, the central election commission said.

The main opposition leader, Alexei Navalny, was barred from the race.

Addressing a rally in Moscow after the early results were declared, Mr Putin said voters had "recognised the achievements of the last few years".

Speaking to reporters after his win, he laughed off a question about running again in another six years.

"What you are saying is a bit funny. Do you think that I will stay here until I'm 100 years old? No!" he said.

The scale of victory - which had been widely predicted - appears to be a marked increase in his share of the vote from 2012, when he won 64%.

Mr Putin's nearest competitor, Pavel Grudinin, had received 13.2% so far, according to the central election commission.

Mr Grudinin is a millionaire communist, but the race also included a former reality television host, Ksenia Sobchak, and veteran nationalist Vladimir Zhirinovsky.

A state exit poll put the turnout at 63.7%, down on 2012. Mr Putin's campaign had hoped for a large turnout, to give him the strongest possible mandate.

His campaign team said it was an "incredible victory".

"The percentage that we have just seen speaks for itself. It's a mandate which Putin needs for future decisions, and he has a lot of them to make," a spokesman told Russia's Interfax.

In some areas, free food and discounts in local shops were on offer near polling stations.

Video recordings from polling stations showed irregularities in a number of towns and cities across Russia. Several showed election officials stuffing boxes with ballot papers.

In his first reaction to the news, Mr Navalny indicated he had been unable to contain his anger.

"Now is the season of Lent. I took it upon myself never to get angry and not to raise my voice. Oh well, I'll try again next year," he tweeted.

During polling day, independent election monitoring group Golos reported hundreds of irregularities, including:

Voting papers found in some ballot boxes before polls opened
Observers were barred from entering some polling stations
Some people were bussed in amid suspicion of forced voting
Webcams at polling stations were obstructed by balloons and other obstacles

Videos taken from the election commission's live stream of polling stations also appeared to show some instances of officials stuffing ballots into boxes.

In Dagestan, one election official said he was prevented from doing his job by a crowd of men who blocked the ballot box.

But Ella Pamfilova, head of the Central Electoral Commission, said no serious violations had been registered yet."We have analysed and monitored everything we could, everything that has arrived. Thank goodness, it's all rather modest so far," she told a commission meeting while speaking about violations.

She had earlier said that anyone involved in violations would be caught.

Sunday's vote was also the first in Crimea since Russia seized the region from Ukraine. Mr Putin was scheduled to speak at a rally scheduled for the fourth anniversary of the annexation - the same day as the election.

The annexation was bitterly contested by Kiev and ratcheted up tensions between Russia and the West. Russians living in Ukraine were unable to take part in Sunday's vote because access to Russian diplomatic missions was blocked by the Kiev government.

"The only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilised community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others...in the part which merely concerns himself, his independence is, of right, absolute." - John Stuart Mill, On Liberty
03-18-2018 04:53 PM
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