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The Vladimir Putin thread
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Rocha Offline
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Post: #151
RE: The Vladimir Putin thread
The big question remains. Why are always foreigners meddling in Russia's affairs?

The people voted (en masse), the leader was elected. End.
Deal with it. When Trump won everyone cherished with democratic tears. I also cherish with foreign tears regarding Putin, specially American, Jewish and Ukrainian.

Undoubtedly the man has done a lot for his country and people, and re established Russia as a major International player. All the rest is fait divers.

He might have some personal interests at stake, but you guys are so naive to think that other country leaders are any different? And yes, Western leaders.

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(This post was last modified: 03-20-2018 05:57 PM by Rocha.)
03-20-2018 05:52 PM
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Post: #152
RE: The Vladimir Putin thread
(03-19-2018 08:36 AM)Rocha Wrote:  With that Avatar how do you want to be taken seriously regarding the subject Vladimir Putin?

You're having a hard time Rochinha.

When your method of trying to discredit somebody's argument is to comment on their avatar and not the substance of their argument, you succeed only in discrediting yourself.

You're Portuguese, aren't you?

By your reasoning you should keep your opinions confined to vinho verde and the poetry of Fernando Pessoa, if you've read it.

And God forbid anybody with an American flag in their avatar ventures an opinion on anything other than American affairs! We just wouldn't be able to take them seriously.

In any case, we're talking about Putin and not my lovely Тризуб.

Try and keep up will ya. Smile

(03-19-2018 02:05 PM)Rocha Wrote:  Has Russia ever had a better leader than Putin?

Never.

Ok let's assume that Putin IS in fact the best leader that Russia has ever had.

Does that make him 'good'?

I mean I don't know if you've been paying attention but Russian "leaders" don't have the greatest track record.

They've murdered tens of millions of people in the last century.

So, just because Putin is "better", it does not follow that he is "good".

(03-20-2018 05:52 PM)Rocha Wrote:  The big question remains. Why are always foreigners meddling in Russia's affairs?

The people voted (en masse), the leader was elected. End.
Deal with it. When Trump won everyone cherished with democratic tears. I also cherish with foreign tears regarding Putin, specially American, Jewish and Ukrainian.

Because we play on international stage where everybody's interests are intertwined AND Russia is a nuclear state with a history (recent history included) of violence against innocent people.

Should we just leave North Korea alone because we'd be meddling in their affairs? No, we should probably blow them the fuck up.

What about the mideast? Should we let all of the arab countries' flags be replaced by the black flag of ISIS? No, we should probably go in and slaughter all of those subhumans until there's not a single one left.

I'm all for non-interventionism if countries are playing nice. But if you're invading sovereign lands and doing all other manner of stupid shit, other countries won't just stand by and let you do it.

And isn't Russia in Syria? All this talk of staying out of their affairs is hogwash. Putin was himself a director of meddling in one of the most meddlesome organizations to have ever meddled.

To wit:





If you're such a Russophile why don't you go live there, try to start a business there, try to start a family there, and get some skin in the game?

You're such an expert and jump on Putin's dick at every opportunity. Let's see how much you love him after a few years of living in a real shithole.

It's one thing to visit and superficially enjoy a country, or even live there as an expat. It's another entirely to have deal with their bureaucracy and corruption.

I've been in Thailand on and off for 5+ years and even though it's a corrupt, technically military dictatorship, a foreigner doesn't have exposure to the same problems that a Thai has, and has much more money to pay his way out of fabricated trouble.

I'd never want to live in Thailand as a Thai, or work for a Thai company. From what I've heard it's a nightmare. Thai police always shaking you down, restricted travel abroad because of your citizenship, crap education, and all the rest of it. None of which an expat really has to deal with.

So it's one thing to spout on about your beloved Putin, but another to be his subject and under the thumb of the FSB.

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03-21-2018 11:36 AM
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Post: #153
RE: The Vladimir Putin thread
(03-20-2018 12:31 PM)Mercenary Wrote:  You picked some quite obscure and controversial people out of nowhere.
Googling those 2 names brings up a lot of suspicious past actions (just 1 example here) and a dubious and suspicious family history, and I'm not surprised they fled Russia.

Care to explain why you name dropped these 2 people ?

Firestone was a member of the American chamber of commerce in Russia and together with Browder they got the Magnitsky act approved (which should serve as a framework to stop corrupt officials from other 3rd world shitholes from investing their blood money in the west). As a response, Russia passed the Dima Yakovlev Law, banning Americans from adopting Russian orphans, which got a lot of media coverage, I wouldn't say they are particularly obscure.

They both appear in Pomerantsev's book, which I previously mentioned. Another member correctly pointed out to Pomerantsev being connected to war-thirsty neocons. I wouldn't completely rule out his book though.

Mark Ames (one of the authors of The Exile) did a post about Pomerantsev and his neocon links:

https://pando.com/2015/05/17/neocons-2-0...merantsev/

One final thing I wanted to add, is that much of the discussion about Navalny being a western puppet is based on speculations.

It's the equivalent of the western media labelling Trump or Nigel Farage as kremlin puppets. A big nothing burger.

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03-21-2018 12:47 PM
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Post: #154
RE: The Vladimir Putin thread
(03-21-2018 11:36 AM)VincentVinturi Wrote:  
(03-19-2018 08:36 AM)Rocha Wrote:  With that Avatar how do you want to be taken seriously regarding the subject Vladimir Putin?

You're Portuguese, aren't you?
...
If you're such a Russophile why don't you go live there, try to start a business there, try to start a family there, and get some skin in the game?

You're such an expert and jump on Putin's dick at every opportunity. Let's see how much you love him after a few years of living in a real shithole.

It's one thing to visit and superficially enjoy a country, or even live there as an expat. It's another entirely to have deal with their bureaucracy and corruption.

I've been in Thailand on and off for 5+ years and even though it's a corrupt, technically military dictatorship, a foreigner doesn't have exposure to the same problems that a Thai has, and has much more money to pay his way out of fabricated trouble.

I'd never want to live in Thailand as a Thai, or work for a Thai company. From what I've heard it's a nightmare. Thai police always shaking you down, restricted travel abroad because of your citizenship, crap education, and all the rest of it. None of which an expat really has to deal with.

So it's one thing to spout on about your beloved Putin, but another to be his subject and under the thumb of the FSB.

In all fairness, Portugal is also famous for petty corruption, nightmarish bureaucracy and so on, but is EU-cucked ™ to boot on top of all that. I don't imagine a Portugese person would be so shocked by the downgraded "real shithole" life in Russia, but they would find its women and culture a refreshing upgrade for sure.

No offense meant, Rocha Big Grin

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03-22-2018 05:37 AM
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Post: #155
RE: The Vladimir Putin thread

Laugh

"The only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilised community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others...in the part which merely concerns himself, his independence is, of right, absolute." - John Stuart Mill, On Liberty
03-22-2018 07:08 AM
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Post: #156
RE: The Vladimir Putin thread
The reason a lot of us here, who of course aren't Russian citizens, support Putin is more about his extremely important international stand in the grand politics chess board to provide a strategic balance to the rampant neocon/globalist plan. I am in no doubt, that if I was a Russian citizen living there, I'd consider a lot lot more factors into whether I want being ruled by Vladimir Putin than as an outsider who's been to Russia for a grand total of 2 weeks in my life (going back again this summer and now with much improved language skill, look forward to talk more to locals about such issues, especially to see if there's been a change of mood since 2015).

It's the same way that many people in the Politics forum defend Iran's gov't...while they would never want to live under its theocracy. To the outsider, Iran's gov't solely purpose is to piss the hell off Israel and Saudi Arabia, and maintains a power balance in Mid.East ... As someone with skin in the game there, my view is of course different and while I see some good they're doing internationally, I know the gov't is an absolute tyranny and full on murderous dictatorship domestically.

Not comparing IR to Putin by anymeans, just trying to exaplain why outsiders can view and rate a ruling gov't/regime differently than insiders. Even Putin's biggest enemies like Khodorovsky, Kasparov, Browder can testify he's improved an average Russian's life and hopes (but perhaps maybe not as much as he/someone else could have they claim.) One can't say anything close to that re: Iran post 1979 for example. Everything has gone backwards.

Anyways, 2 very interesting articles about how West' full-on bombardment and ruthless character assassination of Putin, has actually made him a lot more popular internally. Good reads.


Quote:Western leaders and opinion formers believed sanctions and economic pressure would encourage Russians to turn against Vladimir Putin. They couldn’t have been more wrong.
If you’re not Russian, you probably haven’t heard of Aleksey Pushkov. He’s an influential academic, politician, and media personality who once ran the Foreign Affairs Committee of the Duma (the lower house of the parliament) and is widely considered to be close to the Kremlin.

In the early hours of Monday morning, as the extent of Vladimir Putin’s latest presidential victory became clear, he took to Twitter to make a very important point: “western demonization of Putin inspires the opposite effect in Russia. Instead, citizens rally around him. And the election results confirm this.”

Pushkov is correct. Because Putin’s latest landslide was partially made in the West.

Slowing Tide
To understand why, we need to rewind the clock to 2011. Back then, on the surface at least, Russia was doing well economically. The ruble was trading around 30 to the US dollar and the price of oil was high. While the country’s reliance on the latter resource was always a poor long-term strategy, it provided easy money. And this meant Russians could afford to travel to places, and buy imported products, which Soviet citizens could only have dreamed of, two decades earlier.

Despite this, a considerable amount of people weren’t happy. And when the sitting president, Dmitry Medvedev, announced in September that he was stepping aside to support Putin’s (who was serving as prime minister) return to the Kremlin, anger grew in some sections of society, especially the pro-business and liberal factions. You see, for them, Medvedev represented the promise of liberalization and westernization, and the return of Putin was seen as a step backwards towards nationalism, conservatism, and even authoritarianism.

In December, the Duma election took place, with United Russia, the party associated with Putin and Medvedev, failing to win a majority of the vote. Some alleged the contest had been falsified and the party’s real share was even smaller.

As a result, protests kicked off, largely centered in Moscow. But there were also demonstrations in many provincial cities, including Khabarovsk, more than 8,000km from Moscow, where I resided at the time.

At this moment, one thing was very clear: many Russians sought a new sense of identity, and the various post-Soviet factions were heading for a showdown. One which took place over the following months.

In December, the Western media had decided to christen the unrest as the ‘Snow Revolution’, a meme which conjured memories of similar events in Ukraine and Georgia, labelled ‘Orange’ and ‘Rose’ respectively.

And this was a serious error because Russians weren’t looking for the overthrow of their state. And, at least in the heartland, many feared a return to the anarchy of the 1990s. Thus, while certain capital city circles sizzled with talk of revolution, where I was living, people seemed horrified by the very idea. “This is the rich Moscow elite marching, these guys have nothing in common with me,” was a typical statement. While others seemed to think the protestors were ungrateful, because, after all, their very prosperity was mostly down to Putin, who had inherited a basket case economy in 2000 and greatly improved living standards.

Nevertheless, things became very tense for a while, with no less a figure than Mikhail Gorbachev publicly calling for Putin to resign. Of course, Putin didn’t heed Gorby’s call. Instead, he continued his presidential campaign and in March 2012, won handsomely, with a score of 63% nationally, but only 46% in Moscow.

Mixed Signals
Now, this is where I need to explain something: the 2011/12 protests were, more or less, a “big smoke” phenomenon. And it explains why Western media correspondents, who are all based in Moscow and have little understanding of the rest of Russia, beyond its occasional novelty value, made their readers and viewers believe something substantial was stirring when the reality was less dramatic. Because, in a place like Khabarovsk, the movement gained no traction beyond a bit of muttering in cafes and between close family and friends.

Putin realized this and learned a lesson. In his first two terms, he’d probably spent too much time worrying about the Moscow elite. From now on, he was going to focus on his base, the ordinary folk who keep Russia working. And little did he know at the time, but the West was about to lend a helping hand.

The Kremlin believed Hillary Clinton had interfered in Russia’s 2011/12 unrest, but her influence was limited, even if Putin’s team regarded it as a betrayal. However, America’s behavior in Ukraine in 2013/14 was another matter entirely. This was the US openly intervening in street protests in Russia’s neighbor and Clinton’s former assistant secretary of state, Victoria Nuland, was leading the charge – eventually even going so far as choosing a new government in the aftermath.

For Russians, it was incredible. Ukraine, home to entire regions where ethnic Russians constitute a significant majority, was, as they saw it, being destabilized in a Western-backed coup. Something which meant that Crimea, part of Russia for hundreds of years until Nikita Khrushchev signed it away in the 1950s, could have feasibly wound up housing NATO bases.

Thus, when Putin decided to reabsorb the peninsula in the spring of 2014, his popularity ratings reached unprecedented levels. Because Russians believed the West had betrayed them. And, since then, the EU and the US have played into his hands.

Wide Awake
Russians are fully aware of Western scaremongering about their country and the demonization of their president. They see it on news sites, across social media, and on TV. And the ones who can’t understand English can even read Russian translations of the Western press on a dedicated website, Inosmi (which, incidentally, is state funded). Furthermore, in addition to the constant barrage of media delirium, the NATO countries’ sanctions policy has created a besieged fortress mentality in Russia.

Indeed, Andrey Kondrashov, Putin's campaign spokesman, summed this up on Sunday night. “Turnout is higher than we expected, by about 8-10 percent, for which we must say thanks to Great Britain,” he said with tongue surely in cheek, referring to the fallout from a spy poisoning drama in the UK. “We were pressured exactly at the moment when we needed to mobilize [voters]. Whenever Russia is accused of something indiscriminately and without any evidence, the Russian people unite around the center of power. And the center of power is certainly Putin today.”

In 2012, Putin was under pressure in Moscow, but this weekend he secured over 70% of the vote in the capital. And in St. Petersburg, where he managed 58% six years ago, he can now boast a 75% score. And it has happened at a time when Russians have endured a deep recession, with falling real wages, during a painful, but necessary, economic restructuring after the previous resource-driven model exhausted itself.

Today, even liberal, educated, and cosmopolitan dwellers of the two big cities generally support the status of Crimea and now resent the West for its anti-Russia hysteria. Whereas in 2011-12, many saw the US as a country to aspire to, now they are disappointed with Washington and believe the US to be fundamentally opposed to respecting any of Russia’s vital interests.

Thus, ironically, a Western policy aimed at weakening Putin and reducing Russian resolve has completely backfired. Eighteen years after he first entered the Kremlin, the president’s position has never been stronger, or more secure. And he can thank the dysfunctional and self-destructive policy of the United States and the European Union. A lot of which is influenced by too much reliance on “Russia experts” who don’t really understand the country at all. And it shows.


Also this one:
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-03-2...st-anymore

Quote:Essentially, the West should be horrified not because 76% of Russians voted for Putin, but because this elections have demonstrated that 95% of Russia’s population supports conservative-patriotic, communist and nationalist ideas. That means that liberal ideas are barely surviving among measly 5% of population.

And that’s your fault, my Western friends. It was you who pushed us into “Russians never surrender” mode.

I’ve been telling you for a long time to find normal advisers on Russia.

Sack all those parasites.

With their short-sighted sanctions, heartless humiliation of our athletes (including athletes with disabilities ), with their “skripals” and ostentatious disregard of the most basic liberal values, like a presumption of innocence, that they manage to hypocritically combined with forcible imposition of ultra-liberal ideas in their own countries, their epileptic mass hysteria, causing in a healthy person a sigh of relief that he lives in Russia, and not in Hollywood, with their post-electoral mess in the United States, in Germany, and in the Brexit-zone; with their attacks on RT, which they cannot forgive for taking advantage of the freedom of speech and showing to the world how to use it, and it turned out that the freedom of speech never was intended to be used for good, but was invented as an object of beauty, like some sort of crystal mop that shines from afar, but is not suitable to clean your stables, with all your injustice and cruelty, inquisitorial hypocrisy and lies you forced us to stop respecting you. You and your so called “values.”

We don’t want to live like you live, anymore. For fifty years, secretly and openly, we wanted to live like you, but not any longer.

We have no more respect for you, and for those amongst us that you support, and for all those people who support you.

That’s how this 5% came to be.

For that you only have yourself to blame. And also your Western politicians and analysts, newsmakers and scouts.

Our people are capable to forgive a lot. But we don’t forgive arrogance, and no normal nation would.

Your only remaining Empire would be wise to learn history of its allies, all of them are former empires. To learn the ways they lost their empires. Only because of their arrogance.

White man’s burden, my ass (in English in the original text – trans.)

But the only Empire, you have left, ignores history, it doesn’t teach it and refuses to learn it, meaning that it all will end the way it always does, in such cases.

In meantime, you’ve pushed us to rally around your enemy. Immediately, after you declared him an enemy, we united around him.

Before, he was just our President, who could be reelected. Now, he has become our Leader. We won’t let you change this. And it was you, who created this situation.

It was you who imposed an opposition between patriotism and liberalism. Although, they shouldn’t be mutually exclusive notions. This false dilemma, created by you, made us to chose patriotism.

Even though, many of us are really liberals, myself included.

Get cleaned up, now. You don’t have much time left.
03-22-2018 10:28 AM
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Post: #157
RE: The Vladimir Putin thread
^ Very good post.

As a middle eastern Christian, i dont exactly admire Hezballah's religious or political views. Nor am i a fan of Iran theocracy. And i dont want russians to live under the mercy of rich fat oligarchs.

But, when the other side pretty much finances ISIS and Qaeda and stands by while his creations massacre and exile millions of christians, and when the socalled western christians are hell bent on destroying their own people and mine for the sake of Israel and to protect their puppet Saudis, there isnt much choice left.

And anyway, what alternatives do they offer to those who are in iran, shiites and russians?

We saw their aftermath in Libya.

We saw their allies in Yeltsin. They werent exactly lining up to make Russia prosperous then.



Like i always say, this isnt a region of black and whites. Its a region of shades of grey. And one side is much lighter than the other.


On the other hand, since i live in a corrupted state, its very difficult to change a corrupted state WHEN YOU ARE THE TARGET OF OTHER STRONGER ONES.

Im not saying Putin wants or doesnt to clean up Russia, or if he could, or Bashar, but lets say for example you are Bashar in 2010 and you want to have democracy all of a sudden. You sheepishly introduce democracy and who is the only organized party there? The islamists. Saudi Arabia and Qatar pour in billions of dollars for them to run an election in a poor country. Theyre gonna win.

In Russia as well, when you inherit a corrupted state, every big head in it has his people and the power balance is very delicate. If you piss off too many of these big heads, they take their people and they go to the USA and Europe and say "ok we will help you get rid of Putin". So what you do is bring as many of them as you have to to your side.

Now if you are a one man led state AND OTHER NATIONS BACK OFF, a powerful ruler can make many changes for the good. But when any weakness or crack will see world powers pouring in to fuck you over, you cant afford the risk.

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03-22-2018 11:19 AM
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Post: #158
RE: The Vladimir Putin thread

"The only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilised community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others...in the part which merely concerns himself, his independence is, of right, absolute." - John Stuart Mill, On Liberty
03-22-2018 11:29 AM
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Post: #159
RE: The Vladimir Putin thread
I hope Comrade Putin rules for another 20 years. He is doing good things for Mother Russia!
03-25-2018 10:10 PM
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Mage Offline
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Post: #160
RE: The Vladimir Putin thread
(03-25-2018 10:10 PM)PharaohRa Wrote:  I hope Comrade Putin rules for another 20 years. He is doing good things for Mother Russia!

Why do English speakers love the phrase "Mother Russia " so much? Real Russians don't use this phrase nearly as often as English speakers trying to show some Russian sentiment do.


Real Rusians usually say отециство which means "Fatherland".

A common feminine way to refer to Russia by Russians would be Родина-мать which means "Birthplace - mother"

Mother Russia is not a common Russian expression, stop using it in English it sounds rather ignorant.
(This post was last modified: 03-26-2018 01:13 AM by Mage.)
03-26-2018 01:06 AM
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Post: #161
RE: The Vladimir Putin thread
(03-26-2018 01:06 AM)Mage Wrote:  
(03-25-2018 10:10 PM)PharaohRa Wrote:  I hope Comrade Putin rules for another 20 years. He is doing good things for Mother Russia!

Why do English speakers love the phrase "Mother Russia " so much? Real Russians don't use this phrase nearly as often as English speakers trying to show some Russian sentiment do.


Real Rusians usually say отециство which means "Fatherland".

A common feminine way to refer to Russia by Russians would be Родина-мать which means "Birthplace - mother"

Mother Russia is not a common Russian expression, stop using it in English it sounds rather ignorant.

I'm not so sure of this actually.

I don't know where the term comes from but it is used several times in Alexander Werth's Russia at War and he was British-Russian and fully bilingual.

Also in the war song пришел приказ there's the term "Россия-мать" but I think that's the only instance I've seen it being used.

By the way, the correct spelling is отечество

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(This post was last modified: 03-27-2018 02:37 PM by Gopnik.)
03-27-2018 02:10 PM
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Post: #162
RE: The Vladimir Putin thread
(03-26-2018 01:06 AM)Mage Wrote:  
(03-25-2018 10:10 PM)PharaohRa Wrote:  I hope Comrade Putin rules for another 20 years. He is doing good things for Mother Russia!

Why do English speakers love the phrase "Mother Russia " so much? Real Russians don't use this phrase nearly as often as English speakers trying to show some Russian sentiment do.


Real Rusians usually say отециство which means "Fatherland".

A common feminine way to refer to Russia by Russians would be Родина-мать which means "Birthplace - mother"

Mother Russia is not a common Russian expression, stop using it in English it sounds rather ignorant.

So you're saying the Red Alert and C&C series is fiction?

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03-27-2018 03:43 PM
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Post: #163
RE: The Vladimir Putin thread
That's actually really interesting to know.

Do Russians call each other "Comrade" though?

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03-27-2018 03:44 PM
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Post: #164
RE: The Vladimir Putin thread
Russian man loses his wife and three children in the Kemerovo fire....NATO-mouthpiece, often quoted by MSM "International Affairs expert" posts a screenshot of the man saying someting in supporting Russia in of Crimea back in 2014, as if that means the man deserved to have her family die such a horrible death.

Then, these are the vile scum that want to lecture Russian people on evil and lack of morality of Putin. Absolute cretins...


Speaking of Kemerovo, it really is horrible. I have a local friend there and hearing first hand stories of the sorrow and mood around the city and so many children dead is tragic. I won't rule out act of arson or even a terrorist attack, considering the exit doors were locked and fire alarm wasn't activated. Really hope be it negligence or pure act of evil/terror, the perpetrators see justice. Putin commented: "What’s happening here? This isn’t war, it’s not a spontaneous methane outburst. People came to relax, children. We’re talking about demography and losing so many people. Why? Because of some criminal negligence, because of slovenliness. How could this ever happen? One doesn't want to cry, but wail. ”
(This post was last modified: 03-27-2018 06:29 PM by AManLikePutin.)
03-27-2018 06:21 PM
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Post: #165
RE: The Vladimir Putin thread
No one believes the Skripal story. Among the ordinary people.

I've been doing some light research on British newspapers and each of them has people calling it false flag etc on Facebook. No one believes it. Only the media elites.

Of course such a Facebook sample isn't scientific but it is telling that you can't find support anywhere.

The people simply don't believe it and the elites might miscalculate their ability to propagandize. If they do want to push onwards with their agenda, then they do so against the will of the people, making them show their colors as tyrannical government.
03-27-2018 08:01 PM
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Mage Offline
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Post: #166
RE: The Vladimir Putin thread
(03-27-2018 03:43 PM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  So you're saying the Red Alert and C&C series is fiction?

I don't know, I prefer Starcraft.

(03-27-2018 03:44 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  That's actually really interesting to know.

Do Russians call each other "Comrade" though?

Quite often, but only in a joking, non-serius manner.

(03-27-2018 02:10 PM)Gopnik Wrote:  By the way, the correct spelling is отечество

You are right - altrough I have been speaking Russian since age of 5, I have never learned it school and I have never had a need to write in Russian, so my writing would be full of mistakes and I am writing just how the word sounds to me. In Eastern Europe altrough Russian is the most common foregin language used on street, non-russian schools would teach English primarily, then German, then Franch and only then maybe Russian.

(03-27-2018 06:21 PM)AManLikePutin Wrote:  Russian man loses his wife and three children in the Kemerovo fire....NATO-mouthpiece, often quoted by MSM "International Affairs expert" posts a screenshot of the man saying someting in supporting Russia in of Crimea back in 2014, as if that means the man deserved to have her family die such a horrible death.

Then, these are the vile scum that want to lecture Russian people on evil and lack of morality of Putin. Absolute cretins...

Regarding Kemorovo fire tragedy - with the official confirmed dead count being 67 people, rumors have been spread to say that the official dead count is from 300 to 400 people. These rumors accuse of authoroties hiding the true amount of victims to save face. The people have been agitated and angry and confused. Some fear that this tragedy hasn't ended and that riots might follow.

I have serious doubts about the rumors of victim count being significantly larger then officially reported. I doubt Russian government could be so foolish to even attempt to hide 200+ more victims. It obviously can't work in age of social media. This is most probably western campaign to raise Russian infamy even more. But the western media is so eager to believe that Russian government is lying that they break news in a way that a reader is almost sure about there being 300+ victims. This so unfair to just assume a certain scenario when less then 72 hours from the incident have passed and people are still working on digging out remains and examining what happened and nothing is certain yet. It's pretty gross how this domestic tragedy is being used ro make a political point.

As far as is known almost everybody made it out of the shopping mall alive except people who were locked in cinema rooms. There seems to have been a practice to lock cinema rom doors after the movie starts to free up personal and prohibit people without tickets entering. This is a crude and inhumane method of controlling income by removing customer freedom and safety and the administration that came up with this should be held responsible to fullest extent.
(This post was last modified: 03-28-2018 05:59 AM by Mage.)
03-28-2018 05:16 AM
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Post: #167
RE: The Vladimir Putin thread
(03-27-2018 08:01 PM)nomadbrah Wrote:  No one believes the Skripal story. Among the ordinary people.

I've been doing some light research on British newspapers and each of them has people calling it false flag etc on Facebook. No one believes it. Only the media elites.

Of course such a Facebook sample isn't scientific but it is telling that you can't find support anywhere.

The people simply don't believe it and the elites might miscalculate their ability to propagandize. If they do want to push onwards with their agenda, then they do so against the will of the people, making them show their colors as tyrannical government.

Nobody believes anything the media say anymore in the UK. Within my office, about a third (mostly sheep) think 'it was Russians', the rest think 'it could have been the Russians, but it could just as easily have been our own government'. But nobody really gives a shit; the grass is green, the sky is blue, spies die ...

This is a brief life, but in its brevity it offers us some splendid moments, some meaningful adventures.

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03-28-2018 05:29 AM
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Post: #168
RE: The Vladimir Putin thread
(03-28-2018 05:16 AM)Mage Wrote:  As far as is known almost everybody made it out of the shopping mall alive except people who were locked in cinema rooms. There seems to have been a practice to lock cinema rom doors after the movie starts to free up personal and prohibit people without tickets entering. This is a crude and inhumane method of controlling income by removing customer freedom and safety and the administration that came up with this should be held responsible to fullest extent.

An additional motivation is also to prevent moviegoers from "smuggling in" food and drinks from outside the theater. It's a despicable practice on its own already, but if it led to these deaths then whomever was responsible for it needs to be put away in a gulag forever. They literally put the value of a few Twix bars above dozens of human lives.

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03-28-2018 06:11 AM
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Post: #169
RE: The Vladimir Putin thread
Quote:I don't know where the term comes from but it is used several times in Alexander Werth's Russia at War

I remember Tom Clancy using the term rodina (родина) quite a bit, either in Hunt for Red October (it's even in the movie theme's lyrics) or Cardinal of the Kremlin. I read those about 25-30 years ago...Still it stuck in the mind.

“Your worst enemy cannot harm you as much as your own unguarded thoughts.”
(This post was last modified: 03-28-2018 06:37 AM by RexImperator.)
03-28-2018 06:36 AM
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Post: #170
RE: The Vladimir Putin thread
Sealed fire exits and fire alarms turned off is not unique to Russia. I find the dehumanising of Russians because its flavour of the month to hate Russia as a whole is worrying and should be resisted.

This has embarassed Russia and Putin so the ones found responsible will receive harsh punishment.
03-28-2018 06:58 AM
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Post: #171
RE: The Vladimir Putin thread
(03-26-2018 01:06 AM)Mage Wrote:  
(03-25-2018 10:10 PM)PharaohRa Wrote:  I hope Comrade Putin rules for another 20 years. He is doing good things for Mother Russia!

Why do English speakers love the phrase "Mother Russia " so much? Real Russians don't use this phrase nearly as often as English speakers trying to show some Russian sentiment do.


Real Rusians usually say отециство which means "Fatherland".

A common feminine way to refer to Russia by Russians would be Родина-мать which means "Birthplace - mother"

Mother Russia is not a common Russian expression, stop using it in English it sounds rather ignorant.

The reason why we English speakers like the phrase Mother Russia so much is because it is catchy and we say it jokingly with a sign of favoritism (and respect).
Also, every culture, represented by a country and language has their own catchphrases as well and even though some of them might sound a little weird, I usually make sure I attempt to understand how it is used and derived before making judgment. Perhaps you should better understand English phrases and common sayings before shooting your mouth off and looking like you have no idea with respect to what you are talking about!
03-30-2018 06:35 PM
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Post: #172
RE: The Vladimir Putin thread
(03-26-2018 01:06 AM)Mage Wrote:  A common feminine way to refer to Russia by Russians would be Родина-мать which means "Birthplace - mother"

The famous statue in Volgograd (tallest statue of a woman in the world) is for that matter named "Родина-мать зовёт!" (Motherland calls!)

https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Родина-мать_(Волгоград)
(This post was last modified: 03-31-2018 01:38 AM by Count Pierre.)
03-31-2018 01:14 AM
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Post: #173
RE: The Vladimir Putin thread
(03-31-2018 01:14 AM)Count Pierre Wrote:  The famous statue in Volgograd (tallest statue of a woman in the world) is for that matter named "Родина-мать зовёт!" (Motherland calls!)

https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Родина-мать_(Волгоград)

You see Russians are at forefront of feminism long ahead Western world. USA must feel shame and try to be more like Russia.
(This post was last modified: 03-31-2018 06:05 AM by Mage.)
03-31-2018 06:01 AM
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Post: #174
RE: The Vladimir Putin thread
(03-30-2018 06:35 PM)PharaohRa Wrote:  The reason why we English speakers like the phrase Mother Russia so much is because it is catchy and we say it jokingly with a sign of favoritism (and respect).
Also, every culture, represented by a country and language has their own catchphrases as well and even though some of them might sound a little weird, I usually make sure I attempt to understand how it is used and derived before making judgment. Perhaps you should better understand English phrases and common sayings before shooting your mouth off and looking like you have no idea with respect to what you are talking about!
lol, someone got bitter and has no sense of humor.

I have perfect understanding how English speakers adopt this phrase for jokes and favoritism, but no doubt some other English speakers really think Russians speak like that because of that adopted phrase. I just wanted to say how Russians really speak so that English speakers would have a more accurate picture then their own jokes.

You know what Russians also think about Westerners - that they find outrage in the most ridiculous things.
(This post was last modified: 03-31-2018 06:13 AM by Mage.)
03-31-2018 06:05 AM
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Post: #175
RE: The Vladimir Putin thread
(03-31-2018 06:05 AM)Mage Wrote:  
(03-30-2018 06:35 PM)PharaohRa Wrote:  The reason why we English speakers like the phrase Mother Russia so much is because it is catchy and we say it jokingly with a sign of favoritism (and respect).
Also, every culture, represented by a country and language has their own catchphrases as well and even though some of them might sound a little weird, I usually make sure I attempt to understand how it is used and derived before making judgment. Perhaps you should better understand English phrases and common sayings before shooting your mouth off and looking like you have no idea with respect to what you are talking about!
lol, someone got bitter and has no sense of humor.

I have perfect understanding how English speakers adopt this phrase for jokes and favoritism, but no doubt some other English speakers really think Russians speak like that because of that adopted phrase. I just wanted to say how Russians really speak so that English speakers would have a more accurate picture then their own jokes.

You know what Russians also think about Westerners - that they find outrage in the most ridiculous things.

Bitter, no. Does it get a bit tiresome having to explain things over and over again?? You bet!

And yes, it is true that Westerners find outrage in the most ridiculous of things, it all depends on what those things are!
03-31-2018 10:08 AM
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