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Thoughts after 1 year on TRT.
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nomadbrah Offline
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Post: #76
RE: Thoughts after 1 year on TRT.
This sounds like a paid advertisement for Test Big Grin

I know it isn't, but with all these reports I'd really like to hear from someone who was on it for 10-20 years.

Otherwise, it is almost too good to resist.
(This post was last modified: 06-19-2017 01:17 PM by nomadbrah.)
06-19-2017 01:17 PM
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Steelex Offline
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Post: #77
RE: Thoughts after 1 year on TRT.
Probably a lot easier to find a 60 year old with low T and ask him how much his life sucks.
06-19-2017 03:20 PM
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WanderingSoul Offline
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Post: #78
RE: Thoughts after 1 year on TRT.
(06-19-2017 01:17 PM)nomadbrah Wrote:  This sounds like a paid advertisement for Test Big Grin

I know it isn't, but with all these reports I'd really like to hear from someone who was on it for 10-20 years.

Otherwise, it is almost too good to resist.

Go to ExcelMale.com, lots of guys there on TRT for many years.

Jay Campbell of TRTRevolution has been on for 17 years.

But the bottom line is, if you are truly feeling like total shit, and TRT gives you back a great quality of life, sex drive, eliminates massive depression and anxiety, gives you energy motivation to get out of bed, would you really give a fuck what it does in 20 years time?

I wouldn't. Especially considering the current scientific data out there which points to basically no major consequences.
06-20-2017 02:47 PM
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Steelex Offline
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Post: #79
RE: Thoughts after 1 year on TRT.
Hah, how about the fact that normal T levels prevent numerous diseases. And possibly Alzheimer's.

The thing you have to consider is that TRT is to bring you into the normal range, which is healthy. Its not to turn you into a superhuman. Running 150mg of test a week is just going to make you feel how you are supposed to

Nothing unhealthy about the actual drug itself, it's all dose dependent.
06-20-2017 03:52 PM
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Post: #80
RE: Thoughts after 1 year on TRT.
(06-08-2017 07:47 AM)Tully Mars Wrote:  ...
I really don't have many negatives to report about TRT. I do sometimes start to feel a bit sluggish later in the week as I only inject once a week (1 amp/200mg.) I have discussed doing twice a week half/half injection to level out the inevitable "coming down" feeling. Besides my estradiol coming back a little high all my blood work results have been in target.
...

I've read about a lot of guys on TRT forums doing more frequent injections, even daily injections, because smaller and more frequent injections help stabilize testosterone levels and reduce estrogen-related side effects.

The typical doctor-prescribed TRT protocol that I've seen is 130mg to 140mg per week with two injections per week.

Higher weekly dosages of testosterone create a much higher chance of side of effects therefore it seems that most guys taking 200mg or 250mg per week would inject at least twice per week or more often (3 times per week or every other day).
06-21-2017 07:24 PM
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zatara Offline
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Post: #81
RE: Thoughts after 1 year on TRT.
(06-21-2017 07:24 PM)birthday cat Wrote:  I've read about a lot of guys on TRT forums doing more frequent injections, even daily injections, because smaller and more frequent injections help stabilize testosterone levels and reduce estrogen-related side effects.

The typical doctor-prescribed TRT protocol that I've seen is 130mg to 140mg per week with two injections per week.

Higher weekly dosages of testosterone create a much higher chance of side of effects therefore it seems that most guys taking 200mg or 250mg per week would inject at least twice per week or more often (3 times per week or every other day).

I've never heard of anyone on 150mg experiencing negative sides. I think at the medically recommended dosage its well established to be both safe, and worthwhile.

The big problem is with people who claim to be "on TRT", yet who take 500mg a week because they're chasing gains they don't have the work ethic to gain naturally. And who're obviously self dosing, not under medical supervision. They're far far more likely to have negative sides. And/or to come off it in a few years when they give up on the whole working out thing that they were never dedicated enough about in the first place, and experience horrific sides. I've known a couple of guys from rugby teams who this happened to.

Its one of the things that gives TRT a somewhat bad rap with the general public. People who're taking way more than the medical dosage are way more inclined to experience the negative sides. Yet to the lay person all they hear is "on TRT", so they tar it all with the same brush.
06-22-2017 05:26 AM
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Post: #82
RE: Thoughts after 1 year on TRT.
Personal experience:

I've been on TRT for 18 months. At 35yo, I had destroyed my body and my E2 levels with copious amounts of alcohol. My only saving grace was my knowledge of nutrition and hardhadedness about eating as healthily as possible, despite my desire to destroy and drown my body in alcohol. When I had my blood drawn, I clocked in at just over 300 total T and over 40E2. After my bloods, I spent a year trying different methods to raise my T naturally, and then a year later another 6 months researching and learning about T injections. After doing my due diligence I decided to dive.

First three months were weekly pins of 150mg. I found my end of week troughs to be detrimental to my daily interactions so I switched to twice weekly. Likewise, after proceeding bloodwork, my E2 levels were unacceptably high. I then switched to EOD pins, which eventually evolved to ED pins. I now pin every day simply because it falls easily in line with my daily regimen and keeps my levels super stable. So stable, in fact, that I no longer rely on any chemical AI, and only use DIM, I3C and Resveratrol to manage my E2.

On top of all of that, I was working out, lifting, following a PPL routine for almost a year (credit to Cr33pin for that), and gained quite a bit of structural upper body mass. I filled out, for sure, but that didn't help the underlying issues of E2 mangement and liver values. It's taken me AT LEAST this long to get agood grasp on my vitals, and that's been with quaterly blood draws, paying attention to my body, and even asking other people how they percieve my moods.

Next month, my wife and I both are going to an anti-aging clinic in HK to get a Spectra-Cell micronutrient examination done. That's a bit of a discussion for another thread, but this is the kind of stuff you have to be willing to dive into if you want to start mucking around with AAS, Optimal Nutrition, and overall health. More specifically, if you're planning on, on bullheadedly intent upon fucking with AAS, SARMS, SERMS, PPARS, etc, then you better goddamned well be ready and able to afford and pay for the vital tests necessary to make sure you're not fucking your shit up royally.

Very simple, case in point. I test my glucose and ketone levels MWF, I have my blood hormone levels tested every three months, and after this first micronutrient panel I will have them tested yearly.

It sounds a bit insane, but there's a saying, "You don't know where you're going if you don't know where you are."

Personally, I think anyone serious about TRT should be pinning every day, not just for stability, but also for rolling it into a daily routine. More importantly, however, I think any young man on this forum who reads a response from another member that encourages him to jump into something, or even gives him examples of what or how he could run his first cycle, should put on his discernment goggles and really view that advice with as much scrutiny as you would a contract selling your soul, because this stuff is not for the faint of heart, nor those who are easily scared by the slightest body abnormality or discomfort. Nor should anyone here even be considering giving advice to anyone on where to go until they at least produce sufficient proof of where they are. That's not to say that's not happening here, but more of a broad generalization, for better or worse.

As for me, and my routine, I wake up, do my 15min of HIIT cardio, I pin my test, I take my morning vitamins and supplements, and I make my morning shake (broccoli sprouts, red beet powder, slice of raw kidney, scoop of protein). Lift on the in between days. I can't hang with all these young guys trying to be the next Arnold. I just want to be the next better me.
06-22-2017 07:35 AM
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Steelex Offline
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Post: #83
RE: Thoughts after 1 year on TRT.
It depends where you were when you started.

If you're 40 and still have good test levels then there is no reason to start.
06-22-2017 09:21 AM
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Fortis Away
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Post: #84
RE: Thoughts after 1 year on TRT.
Nomad, I know of several dudes who have been on TRT for 10+ years.

One dude is 40ish and looks late twenties. He has everything dialed in and has had it all in for 10 years.

The other dude is in his 60s and can pass for late 40s. He is also very professional with his diet and exercise (he's a personal trainer). He has been doing testosterone for well over 30 years.

Both of these dudes are super healthy and knowledgable on this stuff.

Jsway probably knows of the two dudes I am referring to.

I did not write this thread as advertising. I am not paid for any of this. I pay for my testosterone, blood panels and everything out of pocket and will do so happily into the future. I just wanted to talk about my experiences with TRT since I went on 1 year ago. Don't worry, I'm not going to start pushing any TRT-related products onto the men of this forum, even though I am technically high enough rep to get away with advertising my own stuff here. Haha.

As I have said many times: don't just fucking inject shit into your body because you think you should. In fact, I refuse to even really discuss TRT with someone unless they're done their bloodwork and doesn't seem like a moron.

The other thing I wanted to add is go back to my posts from before may 2016 and read them and read my posts now. I think my attitude and mood are way better after TRT. I used to feel grim and angry all the time. now I find that I am a lot more positive, motivated and results-oriented.

I will be checking my PMs weekly, so you can catch me there. I will not be posting.
(This post was last modified: 06-22-2017 10:35 AM by Fortis.)
06-22-2017 10:24 AM
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J_Sway Offline
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Post: #85
RE: Thoughts after 1 year on TRT.
(06-22-2017 09:21 AM)Steelex Wrote:  It depends where you were when you started.

If you're 40 and still have good test levels then there is no reason to start.

I wholly agree, but this thread is not about a dude in his 40s in a midlife trough. Thiis is about a dude that is basically a baby, in biological terms. He doesn't need guys preaching to him the values of TRT, he needs men telling him to do the absolute must he can do to raise his levels naturally, and to avoid exogenous hormones at all costs, and only turn to them as an absolute last resort.
(This post was last modified: 06-22-2017 01:15 PM by J_Sway.)
06-22-2017 01:13 PM
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birthday cat Offline
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Post: #86
RE: Thoughts after 1 year on TRT.
(06-22-2017 05:26 AM)zatara Wrote:  
(06-21-2017 07:24 PM)birthday cat Wrote:  I've read about a lot of guys on TRT forums doing more frequent injections, even daily injections, because smaller and more frequent injections help stabilize testosterone levels and reduce estrogen-related side effects.

The typical doctor-prescribed TRT protocol that I've seen is 130mg to 140mg per week with two injections per week.

Higher weekly dosages of testosterone create a much higher chance of side of effects therefore it seems that most guys taking 200mg or 250mg per week would inject at least twice per week or more often (3 times per week or every other day).

I've never heard of anyone on 150mg experiencing negative sides. I think at the medically recommended dosage its well established to be both safe, and worthwhile.
I guess it depends on your definition of side effects. On page 2 of this thread doc holliday said he takes arimidex even though he only takes 80mg per week of testosterone. In my opinion he has side effects, i.e. high estrogen levels. His estrogen levels are high enough for him to take arimidex and you want to avoid arimidex/aromasin if at all possible.

(06-22-2017 07:35 AM)J_Sway Wrote:  First three months were weekly pins of 150mg. I found my end of week troughs to be detrimental to my daily interactions so I switched to twice weekly. Likewise, after proceeding bloodwork, my E2 levels were unacceptably high. I then switched to EOD pins, which eventually evolved to ED pins. I now pin every day simply because it falls easily in line with my daily regimen and keeps my levels super stable. So stable, in fact, that I no longer rely on any chemical AI, and only use DIM, I3C and Resveratrol to manage my E2.
This is exactly what I was talking about. Frequent injections are common for guys who have done their homework. However, there are a lot guys doing 200mg or 250mg per week with only one injection per week and a lot of guys taking arimidex/aromasin while taking only one testosterone injection per week. It doesn't make sense. It's also an indicator that this forum might not be the best place to learn about TRT and one of the reasons I made this post.
(This post was last modified: 06-22-2017 03:00 PM by birthday cat.)
06-22-2017 02:47 PM
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WanderingSoul Offline
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Post: #87
RE: Thoughts after 1 year on TRT.
(06-22-2017 07:35 AM)J_Sway Wrote:  Personal experience:

I've been on TRT for 18 months. At 35yo, I had destroyed my body and my E2 levels with copious amounts of alcohol. My only saving grace was my knowledge of nutrition and hardhadedness about eating as healthily as possible, despite my desire to destroy and drown my body in alcohol. When I had my blood drawn, I clocked in at just over 300 total T and over 40E2. After my bloods, I spent a year trying different methods to raise my T naturally, and then a year later another 6 months researching and learning about T injections. After doing my due diligence I decided to dive.

First three months were weekly pins of 150mg. I found my end of week troughs to be detrimental to my daily interactions so I switched to twice weekly. Likewise, after proceeding bloodwork, my E2 levels were unacceptably high. I then switched to EOD pins, which eventually evolved to ED pins. I now pin every day simply because it falls easily in line with my daily regimen and keeps my levels super stable. So stable, in fact, that I no longer rely on any chemical AI, and only use DIM, I3C and Resveratrol to manage my E2.

On top of all of that, I was working out, lifting, following a PPL routine for almost a year (credit to Cr33pin for that), and gained quite a bit of structural upper body mass. I filled out, for sure, but that didn't help the underlying issues of E2 mangement and liver values. It's taken me AT LEAST this long to get agood grasp on my vitals, and that's been with quaterly blood draws, paying attention to my body, and even asking other people how they percieve my moods.

Next month, my wife and I both are going to an anti-aging clinic in HK to get a Spectra-Cell micronutrient examination done. That's a bit of a discussion for another thread, but this is the kind of stuff you have to be willing to dive into if you want to start mucking around with AAS, Optimal Nutrition, and overall health. More specifically, if you're planning on, on bullheadedly intent upon fucking with AAS, SARMS, SERMS, PPARS, etc, then you better goddamned well be ready and able to afford and pay for the vital tests necessary to make sure you're not fucking your shit up royally.

Very simple, case in point. I test my glucose and ketone levels MWF, I have my blood hormone levels tested every three months, and after this first micronutrient panel I will have them tested yearly.

It sounds a bit insane, but there's a saying, "You don't know where you're going if you don't know where you are."

Personally, I think anyone serious about TRT should be pinning every day, not just for stability, but also for rolling it into a daily routine. More importantly, however, I think any young man on this forum who reads a response from another member that encourages him to jump into something, or even gives him examples of what or how he could run his first cycle, should put on his discernment goggles and really view that advice with as much scrutiny as you would a contract selling your soul, because this stuff is not for the faint of heart, nor those who are easily scared by the slightest body abnormality or discomfort. Nor should anyone here even be considering giving advice to anyone on where to go until they at least produce sufficient proof of where they are. That's not to say that's not happening here, but more of a broad generalization, for better or worse.

As for me, and my routine, I wake up, do my 15min of HIIT cardio, I pin my test, I take my morning vitamins and supplements, and I make my morning shake (broccoli sprouts, red beet powder, slice of raw kidney, scoop of protein). Lift on the in between days. I can't hang with all these young guys trying to be the next Arnold. I just want to be the next better me.

Thanks for the info, J_Sway. Really good stuff.

How would you say you feel now? Has the TRT made a significant difference in your life?
06-22-2017 03:02 PM
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WanderingSoul Offline
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Post: #88
RE: Thoughts after 1 year on TRT.
(06-22-2017 02:47 PM)birthday cat Wrote:  This is exactly what I was talking about. Frequent injections are common for guys who have done their homework. However, there are a lot guys doing 200mg or 250mg per week with only one injection per week and a lot of guys taking arimidex/aromasin while taking only one testosterone injection per week. It doesn't make sense. It's also an indicator that this forum might not be the best place to learn about TRT and one of the reasons I made this post.

This is a very good point.

This thread is great for people to get their feet wet, and learn that TRT is an option out there, but it isn't a place to get your protocol. You really need to work with a knowledgeable HRT doctor.

Your GP, or even endocrinologist is probably extremely ignorant about TRT and not a place to start.

ExcelMale.com is a very good forum to check out if you suspect you may have low t, or other hormonal issues.

A lot of people have low t like symptoms, but not actually low t, so it's important to work with a very good doctor before jumping on TRT as there are many other things to look at before jumping on injections.
06-22-2017 03:08 PM
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Hypno Offline
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Post: #89
RE: Thoughts after 1 year on TRT.
Anyone have experience using Clomid to naturally generate T, rather than taking T directly?
06-22-2017 03:13 PM
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Fortis Away
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Post: #90
RE: Thoughts after 1 year on TRT.
I've never used Clomid so I don't know much about it, but why not just use testosterone? Seems like a roundabout way of improving testosterone.

I will be checking my PMs weekly, so you can catch me there. I will not be posting.
06-22-2017 09:18 PM
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Post: #91
RE: Thoughts after 1 year on TRT.
Clomid has some pretty shitty sides. It's not a drug I'd want to use unless I had to.
06-22-2017 09:21 PM
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WanderingSoul Offline
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Post: #92
RE: Thoughts after 1 year on TRT.
(06-22-2017 03:13 PM)Hypno Wrote:  Anyone have experience using Clomid to naturally generate T, rather than taking T directly?

Some HRT doctors will prescribe Clomid before TRT from what I understand, but it seems men rarely get lasting benefits from it and end up on TRT anyways.
06-22-2017 11:19 PM
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Post: #93
RE: Thoughts after 1 year on TRT.
(06-22-2017 03:13 PM)Hypno Wrote:  Anyone have experience using Clomid to naturally generate T, rather than taking T directly?

Yes, look at this thread:

https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-54974.html
06-23-2017 01:10 PM
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RE: Thoughts after 1 year on TRT.
(05-16-2017 10:14 AM)rudebwoy Wrote:  ...

I started Test well into my mid 30s, my first cycle was Test/Tren (TnT). I blew up to 215 at 5'11 and I will second all the benefits you listed.

I have done less than 10 cycles in my whole life, I can maintain decent Test levels without taking Test.

rudebwoy - were you blasting and cruising through most of this or coming off completely? what are you doing now?

do you think you can come off completely without many problems? do you think you would lose a lot of your size and strength if you came off?


(06-22-2017 07:35 AM)J_Sway Wrote:  Personal experience:

I've been on TRT for 18 months. At 35yo, I had destroyed my body and my E2 levels with copious amounts of alcohol. My only saving grace was my knowledge of nutrition and hardhadedness about eating as healthily as possible, despite my desire to destroy and drown my body in alcohol. When I had my blood drawn, I clocked in at just over 300 total T and over 40E2. After my bloods, I spent a year trying different methods to raise my T naturally, and then a year later another 6 months researching and learning about T injections. After doing my due diligence I decided to dive.

First three months were weekly pins of 150mg. I found my end of week troughs to be detrimental to my daily interactions so I switched to twice weekly. Likewise, after proceeding bloodwork, my E2 levels were unacceptably high. I then switched to EOD pins, which eventually evolved to ED pins. I now pin every day simply because it falls easily in line with my daily regimen and keeps my levels super stable. So stable, in fact, that I no longer rely on any chemical AI, and only use DIM, I3C and Resveratrol to manage my E2.

...

Could you tell us more about your protocol? What test do you use? What size needles? Where do you inject? IM or SubQ?

I haven't heard much about DIM, I3C and Resveratrol. What do you suggest? Is there a source of information where I could learn more?
06-25-2017 04:57 PM
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Post: #95
RE: Thoughts after 1 year on TRT.
(06-22-2017 03:02 PM)RioNomad Wrote:  How would you say you feel now? Has the TRT made a significant difference in your life?

I feel 100% more like myself and 100% less like the passive aggressive shell I had found myself locked inside of. More energy, better focus, and a hair trigger for nonsense and stupidity.

(06-25-2017 04:57 PM)birthday cat Wrote:  Could you tell us more about your protocol? What test do you use? What size needles? Where do you inject? IM or SubQ?

I haven't heard much about DIM, I3C and Resveratrol. What do you suggest? Is there a source of information where I could learn more?

I've already shared more info about my protocol than I usually care to. More details than that tend to be read and taken as a step-by-step guide and I'd much rather guys here do their homework than try to emulate something myself or anyone else has done.

That said, there is enough detail in what I have mentioned that if you do a couple google searches you could easily find and piece together a fairly precise example which would answer all of the questions you asked.

As for DIM, I3C, Resveratrol, CDG, and other estrogen balancing/eliminating supplements, there are a couple threads that exist already on the forum that get into those details. Just search for recent threads started by Roosh. Outside of the forum, they could also just as easily be researched on google.

I'll share my experience, but I won't detail my protocol. It's your body, you gotta do your own homework and build your own protocol. It's the only way you'll know what works. For most of us here, it's been a process of trial and error, and it's not something that can be copied and pasted from person to person. This is why, if you read enough experiences of men who have been on it for years, that a great deal of them went on to tailor their protocol to their own life. The doctors who are prescribing this stuff, expecially the docs that don't specialize in it, are trying to apply a one size fits all dosing protocol to something they don't even fully understand, when the results, across the board, clearly show that the one size does not fit all.

The FIRST three steps I would suggest to anyone considering TRT (or even AAS for performance purposes):

1. Bloodwork

For obvious reasons, you absolutely must know where your hormone/vitamin/mineral levels sit before you can start to consider ways and means of altering them.

2. Food AND fitness journal for 1-2 weeks, 1 week at least

This is simple. Garbage in/garbage out. If you are over 30 and eat trash and get little to no exercise, your already working with a suboptimal levels. Sometimes fixing these is more than enough to get yourself back within range without resorting to exogenous hormones.

3. An honest assessment of work/home/leisure activities and lifestyle

If your work and/or homelife is overly stressful, this will absolutely play hell with your hormones via cortisol, stress eating, blood sugar, etc.

After you've taken those three things into account and adjusted them as much as you can and your levels still are not in a range where you feel, look, and act better, then its time to have your blood checked again and start looking into whether pinning is the right next course of action. If it is, then it's time to start doing more homework.

As for what levels are proper, it largely boils down to what feels right. Last checked, I was sitting at just over 1000TT and 33E2. That seems to be my sweet spot. For other people, some here that I know personally, their sweet spot is much lower than that. Again, it's trial, error, and lots of tracking and record keeping. If you're doing it right, Microsoft Excel will become one of your best friends.

Do your homework, fellas. It's the only way you'll learn.
(This post was last modified: 06-26-2017 12:27 AM by J_Sway.)
06-26-2017 12:11 AM
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rudebwoy Away
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Post: #96
RE: Thoughts after 1 year on TRT.
(06-25-2017 04:57 PM)birthday cat Wrote:  
(05-16-2017 10:14 AM)rudebwoy Wrote:  ...

I started Test well into my mid 30s, my first cycle was Test/Tren (TnT). I blew up to 215 at 5'11 and I will second all the benefits you listed.

I have done less than 10 cycles in my whole life, I can maintain decent Test levels without taking Test.

rudebwoy - were you blasting and cruising through most of this or coming off completely? what are you doing now?

do you think you can come off completely without many problems? do you think you would lose a lot of your size and strength if you came off?

I came off completely and I am not taking anything now.

Roids vary for every guy, for me it wasn't a problem coming off. I didn't use Clomid or any of that other stuff.

You will always lose a bit of size when you come off.

The first cycle will be the best one, you will get great gains and be hooked.

Any foreign substance you introduce to your body, will always throw your body off in some shape of form. You may not see the effects of it right away, but you will see it down the road.

Curious as to why Mike CF stopped taking TRT?

Our New Blog:

http://www.repstylez.com
(This post was last modified: 06-27-2017 10:15 AM by rudebwoy.)
06-27-2017 10:15 AM
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Hypno Offline
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Post: #97
RE: Thoughts after 1 year on TRT.
(06-22-2017 09:18 PM)Fortis Wrote:  I've never used Clomid so I don't know much about it, but why not just use testosterone? Seems like a roundabout way of improving testosterone.

The advantages of Clomid as I understand it are:
- causes your body to generate natural T, on an even rather than spiky basis
- can start and stop; does not cause your nads to atrophy which may be important if you want to have kids in the future. i.e. you avoid the biggest side effect of TRT.
- oral pill daily rather than injections
-fewer doctor visits

Disadvantages
-some people get floaters
-you may have to take something else to depress estrogen levels - that is anectdotal; not sure about this one.

The fact that guys on clomid eventually move to TRT is not necessarily an argument against it.
06-27-2017 10:24 AM
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birthday cat Offline
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Post: #98
RE: Thoughts after 1 year on TRT.
(06-26-2017 12:11 AM)J_Sway Wrote:  I've already shared more info about my protocol than I usually care to. More details than that tend to be read and taken as a step-by-step guide and I'd much rather guys here do their homework than try to emulate something myself or anyone else has done.

That said, there is enough detail in what I have mentioned that if you do a couple google searches you could easily find and piece together a fairly precise example which would answer all of the questions you asked.

As for DIM, I3C, Resveratrol, CDG, and other estrogen balancing/eliminating supplements, there are a couple threads that exist already on the forum that get into those details. Just search for recent threads started by Roosh. Outside of the forum, they could also just as easily be researched on google.

I'll share my experience, but I won't detail my protocol. It's your body, you gotta do your own homework and build your own protocol. It's the only way you'll know what works. For most of us here, it's been a process of trial and error, and it's not something that can be copied and pasted from person to person. This is why, if you read enough experiences of men who have been on it for years, that a great deal of them went on to tailor their protocol to their own life. The doctors who are prescribing this stuff, expecially the docs that don't specialize in it, are trying to apply a one size fits all dosing protocol to something they don't even fully understand, when the results, across the board, clearly show that the one size does not fit all.

I agree with everything you said. I wanted you to describe your protocol and your reasoning for that protocol because I know it's different from what a lot of guys are doing and it will expose those guys to some better options.

For example, I've had conversations with multiple forum guys who are self-administering and they don't understand the difference between propionate and cypionate or enanthate. They make major changes to their dosage in short time periods and don't understand that it takes time for levels to stabilize. The idea of taking more frequent injections to stabilize testosterone levels and reduce estrogen levels seems to fly over their head...250mg per week with only one injection is typical because it's convenient since they can buy a prefilled 250mg syringe. They say they don't have side effects but they take AI's. Some of these guys are giving advice to other guys. It's the blind leading the blind.

Maybe we should tell everyone to consult with a doctor who specializes in TRT even if they don't need a prescription. Two options that I know of are Defy Medical or All Things Male and I think both offer consultations via phone and email. I agree there isn't a one-size-fits-all approach but the starting point that those doctors will suggest is probably a much better starting point than what guys would do on their own.
(This post was last modified: 06-27-2017 06:08 PM by birthday cat.)
06-27-2017 05:50 PM
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J_Sway Offline
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Post: #99
RE: Thoughts after 1 year on TRT.
(06-27-2017 05:50 PM)birthday cat Wrote:  
(06-26-2017 12:11 AM)J_Sway Wrote:  I've already shared more info about my protocol than I usually care to. More details than that tend to be read and taken as a step-by-step guide and I'd much rather guys here do their homework than try to emulate something myself or anyone else has done.

That said, there is enough detail in what I have mentioned that if you do a couple google searches you could easily find and piece together a fairly precise example which would answer all of the questions you asked.

As for DIM, I3C, Resveratrol, CDG, and other estrogen balancing/eliminating supplements, there are a couple threads that exist already on the forum that get into those details. Just search for recent threads started by Roosh. Outside of the forum, they could also just as easily be researched on google.

I'll share my experience, but I won't detail my protocol. It's your body, you gotta do your own homework and build your own protocol. It's the only way you'll know what works. For most of us here, it's been a process of trial and error, and it's not something that can be copied and pasted from person to person. This is why, if you read enough experiences of men who have been on it for years, that a great deal of them went on to tailor their protocol to their own life. The doctors who are prescribing this stuff, expecially the docs that don't specialize in it, are trying to apply a one size fits all dosing protocol to something they don't even fully understand, when the results, across the board, clearly show that the one size does not fit all.

I agree with everything you said. I wanted you to describe your protocol and your reasoning for that protocol because I know it's different from what a lot of guys are doing and it will expose those guys to some better options.

For example, I've had conversations with multiple forum guys who are self-administering and they don't understand the difference between propionate and cypionate or enanthate. They make major changes to their dosage in short time periods and don't understand that it takes time for levels to stabilize. The idea of taking more frequent injections to stabilize testosterone levels and reduce estrogen levels seems to fly over their head...250mg per week with only one injection is typical because it's convenient since they can buy a prefilled 250mg syringe. They say they don't have side effects but they take AI's. Some of these guys are giving advice to other guys. It's the blind leading the blind.

Maybe we should tell everyone to consult with a doctor who specializes in TRT even if they don't need a prescription. Two options that I know of are Defy Medical or All Things Male and I think both offer consultations via phone and email. I agree there isn't a one-size-fits-all approach but the starting point that those doctors will suggest is probably a much better starting point than what guys would do on their own.

I wholly agree. Better to go with an anti-aging clinic. They are specialized and will tailor to the individual depending on their specific needs. They also offer much more comprehensive testing.

Things like pinning frequency, subQ vs IM, ester length, and suspension medium can all play a part in whether or not and to what extent a person will experience sides. Especially with doses higher than 150mg.

Your example is a good one. If someone is pinning 250mg per week and has to use an AI (as almost anyone would at that dose), then they are most certainly experiencing sides and should consider lowering their dose. At 250mg per week, you're getting into performance dosing anyway, and should absolutely have some sort of AI on hand, not to mention a cycling plan/protocol to bring things back to stasis for a while every 8 weeks or so. But, again, we're not talking about AAS for performance here, so talk of cycling and dosages that high are part of a completely different conversation.
(This post was last modified: 06-28-2017 12:20 AM by J_Sway.)
06-28-2017 12:12 AM
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Post: #100
RE: Thoughts after 1 year on TRT.
(06-22-2017 02:47 PM)birthday cat Wrote:  this post.

Felt like this was worth repeating/reposting. That's a great list of resources for anyone considering TRT.

There are quite a handful of us whose location happens to limit our options, but not our sources. So we've had to do a lot of our own homework, research, and be our own doctor. The risk factor is slightly higher, but only if you go overboard. A well informed, cautious, conservative mind and fastidious record keeping can build a safe, low risk protocol with minimal to no sides. Plus, a willingness to be your own guinea pig and take precautions for the inevitable small misteps and miscalculations that might occur.
(This post was last modified: 06-28-2017 12:51 AM by J_Sway.)
06-28-2017 12:37 AM
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