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The International Teaching Thread
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TheBulldozer Offline
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Post: #26
RE: The International Teaching Thread
(05-30-2017 12:37 PM)Phoenix Wrote:  I have a few:

(05-30-2017 09:58 AM)MaleDefined Wrote:  I would argue the programs that top tier international high schools are turning out are superior to any learning experience a young person could receive. Bar none.

1. Tell me more about why this is.

2. What is the usual minimum hiring requirement?

3. Do they offer discounts to teaching parents enrolling their kids at the school, and how common is this?

Cheers

-We operate as independent schools. We don't have to listen to much of anybody. We get to pick our student body. Teachers are highly qualified. The parents of students who are living abroad are a bit unique into themselves. It takes a certain type of family to make a decision to uproot yourself out of your home country to work abroad, hence they're not the type of parent to complain about taking a unique approach to education.

-The minimal hiring requirement is two years of experience and a masters.

Each school is different. Some schools offer a discount. Some offer a full ride for one child. Some are two. Some offer the full ride for all children. School costs range from $20kUSD all the way through 60k and an upfront debenture of 250k in places like HK or Singapore.
06-18-2017 06:47 AM
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TheBulldozer Offline
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Post: #27
RE: The International Teaching Thread
(05-31-2017 04:16 PM)Moto Wrote:  I, as an international school teacher, have a question for OP. How would one go about pursuing leadership roles, ideally without ever working/teaching within the US? Are there any broadly recognized online masters degrees is administration?

I can only speak for myself, but I lucked into a fantastic situation that allowed for rapid growth and promotion. In fairness, I take my job seriously, work my ass off, formed great relationships with my supervisors, and received glowing feedback from the student and parent community.

I do not hold a master's in education leadership. I hope I never have to get one, if nothing else than I don't want to spend 20k and my time learning about a job that I am already doing on a day to day basis. I do worry that when I look to change schools that it will be a demerit that I don't have one, regardless of my performance in the job.

I've heard good things about Lehigh University's online program, though I cannot offer direct information on that. The Principal's Training Center also gets rave reviews as it is tailored specifically for international school leadership positions.
06-18-2017 06:54 AM
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Post: #28
RE: The International Teaching Thread
(05-31-2017 06:20 PM)Suits Wrote:  
(05-31-2017 07:10 AM)MaleDefined Wrote:  A top school in Beijing has done away with schedules. Learn what you want, when you want to, because you want to, and get mentored in those areas by experts.

Which school is this?

WAB
06-18-2017 06:57 AM
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jdreise Offline
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Post: #29
RE: The International Teaching Thread
There have been some questions about doing teaching certification and/or an M.Ed. from abroad to work in an international school, but the more experienced posters have said it's better to get two years of experience in your home country. While it is preferable to have those two years in your own system, it is by no means the only way of getting into an international school.

I'm someone who did a certification and M.Ed. abroad, and while the program I did has since closed up shop, there are others out there. One of the Chinese teacher recruiters I signed up for a few years ago periodically sends me spam emails. The other day, this one landed in my inbox:

   

This one costs $6,000 for the license or $13,000 for the license and M.Ed. With that said, I couldn't find which university awards the masters. That might take a little more research on your part. The program I did was through a large, brick-and-mortar, state university. Anyway, here's the link for those of you interested.

https://teacherlink.teachingnomad.com/te...e#overview

Also, the two years of previous teaching is not always a requirement to get hired on at an IS. It seems to be explicitly stated in adverts for China and other countries in East/SE Asia and the Middle East. These tend to be the countries where you stack cash.

The last IS I worked at (a large school in LATAM that paid well for regional standards) hired people fresh out of teaching programs with no prior experience. That school also hired people with 30 years of experience. Countries like Nicaragua, Ecuador, Bolivia, Venezuela (haha), El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, and (just maybe) even a few places in Colombia will hire recent grads. There are an increasing number of US accredited schools in those places. Pay rates in those kinds of locales vary anywhere from $1000 a month to well over $3000 per month. Flights and housing are always included, even though housing varies widely depending on employer. Many of those schools also offer an on-site Masters of Ed program that they subsidize to keep you around at least 3 years.

I would imagine shit hole African destinations are also hard pressed to find teachers and would waive the two year teaching experience requirement.
06-20-2017 12:31 PM
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Heart Break Kid Offline
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RE: The International Teaching Thread
Does the Masters degree have to be in education, or can it be in a particular topic? For instance, if one wants to teach Biology and they had a Masters degree in Biology, would that be a good qualification?
(This post was last modified: 06-21-2017 12:28 PM by Heart Break Kid.)
06-21-2017 12:27 PM
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El Mono Offline
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Post: #31
RE: The International Teaching Thread
I've been looking into doing the TeacherReady program out of Florida but have a question in regards to obtaining employment in international schools.

I noticed on the Florida DOE website that you can teach high school Chemistry as long as you meet this requirement:

(b) Plan Two. A bachelor's or higher degree with thirty (30) semester hours in science, to include twenty-one (21) semester hours in chemistry with associated laboratory experiences

I meet this requirement but hold a degree in Psychology which obviously bears no relation to Chem or the hard sciences for that matter.

In a general sense, are international schools picky when it comes to what your actual degree is in or does the degree not matter as long as you are certified in the subject you want to teach and have some experience?

Thanks
06-21-2017 12:40 PM
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boss13 Offline
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Post: #32
RE: The International Teaching Thread
How is working at international schools in terms of your westerner coworkers? Is it possible to avoid contact and socializing with loud western women?

I've heard that teaching at upper-tier international schools can be stressful and require working alot more than 40 hrs/week and even the weekends. Is this typical?

What countries have the best students to teach at for new teachers? I heard Chinese students are motivated and well-behaved, whereas Thai students are very lazy and have no respect for foreign teachers

(06-20-2017 12:31 PM)jdreise Wrote:  The last IS I worked at (a large school in LATAM that paid well for regional standards) hired people fresh out of teaching programs with no prior experience. That school also hired people with 30 years of experience. Countries like Nicaragua, Ecuador, Bolivia, Venezuela (haha), El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, and (just maybe) even a few places in Colombia will hire recent grads. There are an increasing number of US accredited schools in those places. Pay rates in those kinds of locales vary anywhere from $1000 a month to well over $3000 per month. Flights and housing are always included, even though housing varies widely depending on employer.

There's schools in Colombia paying $3000/month for recent grads without a credential? How do you find these job openings?
06-21-2017 02:37 PM
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Moto Offline
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Post: #33
RE: The International Teaching Thread
(06-21-2017 12:40 PM)El Mono Wrote:  I've been looking into doing the TeacherReady program out of Florida but have a question in regards to obtaining employment in international schools.

I noticed on the Florida DOE website that you can teach high school Chemistry as long as you meet this requirement:

(b) Plan Two. A bachelor's or higher degree with thirty (30) semester hours in science, to include twenty-one (21) semester hours in chemistry with associated laboratory experiences

I meet this requirement but hold a degree in Psychology which obviously bears no relation to Chem or the hard sciences for that matter.

In a general sense, are international schools picky when it comes to what your actual degree is in or does the degree not matter as long as you are certified in the subject you want to teach and have some experience?

Thanks

At least in standard university programs, you need a science degree to get a teaching certification in middle or high school science. To get certified in a subject, you need a degree in that subject or similar. The exception in elementary. You can get into an elementary certification program with almost any degree.

As for the question about master's degrees, only masters in education count.
06-21-2017 04:31 PM
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airelibre Offline
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Post: #34
RE: The International Teaching Thread
I'm also teaching at an international school. Previously I taught EFL in Korea for 5 years, did TeacherReady to earn my social studies grade 6-12 credential, which helped me get my current job.

@ElMono - I would contact TeacherReady directly to ask if you could qualify for that subject. Florida lists psychology under social science, not natural/hard sciences; however, since you are doing an alternative certification program, you prove subject competence just by passing the relevant FTCE exam, if I recall correctly. Double-check with the TR staff on this to be sure though.

Plan B: you definitely would qualify for a social science credential based on your psych BA, and after you have the social science credential, you can add other subjects to your credential just by passing the relevant FTCE exam (seems ridiculous, passing an exam makes you qualified to teach a subject?? but this is Florida we are talking about...). Now you're dual-certified, which could be a selling point depending on what the school's staffing needs are.

Physics & Chemistry are the high-demand science subjects. In general, schools care about your experience, specifically curriculum experience (IB, AP, IGCSE/A-levels) - no amount of education/certificates beats experience. Regardless of what your credential is in, expect your first school to be not great, and you'll work your way up from there each subsequent contract, until you find a place you'd like to settle (if that's your thing).

@boss13 - the Western coworkers can be a pain, but also easy to avoid since everyone is busy, all the time. The only issue is the staffroom, but really, you shouldn't be hanging out in the staff room every break/free period, because it's ground zero for negativity, gossip, bitching & moaning, and just generally miserable.

I choose to spend that time in my classroom planning, marking, or taking walks to clear my head. The best teachers I've met recommend the same, and are rarely seen in the staff room.

Schools are also terrible rumor mills (some more than others), so best to just come in, teach the best you can, let your work speak for itself, and socialize with non-coworkers. As long as you have a good rapport with Admin, and handle your own responsibilities, you will avoid most of the petty politics and annoying coworkers.

@Moto - I would respectfully disagree that only a M.Ed counts, unless we are talking leadership (Principal/VP). In that case, yes, you pretty much need to have a M.Ed to get an administrative credential and ultimately to be a competitive candidate.

However, for classroom teaching, a subject-area master's is fine, and will give you a pay bump at many schools (same in most USA states). The main thing a school is looking for is a valid credential from the USA/Canada/UK/Australia/NZ. Anything beyond that just makes you more competitive and gives you some leverage during salary negotiations.
06-21-2017 09:34 PM
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Post: #35
RE: The International Teaching Thread
(06-21-2017 02:37 PM)boss13 Wrote:  How is working at international schools in terms of your westerner coworkers? Is it possible to avoid contact and socializing with loud western women?

I've heard that teaching at upper-tier international schools can be stressful and require working alot more than 40 hrs/week and even the weekends. Is this typical?

What countries have the best students to teach at for new teachers? I heard Chinese students are motivated and well-behaved, whereas Thai students are very lazy and have no respect for foreign teachers

(06-20-2017 12:31 PM)jdreise Wrote:  The last IS I worked at (a large school in LATAM that paid well for regional standards) hired people fresh out of teaching programs with no prior experience. That school also hired people with 30 years of experience. Countries like Nicaragua, Ecuador, Bolivia, Venezuela (haha), El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, and (just maybe) even a few places in Colombia will hire recent grads. There are an increasing number of US accredited schools in those places. Pay rates in those kinds of locales vary anywhere from $1000 a month to well over $3000 per month. Flights and housing are always included, even though housing varies widely depending on employer.

There's schools in Colombia paying $3000/month for recent grads without a credential? How do you find these job openings?

I think the teaching load at international schools is usually much lower than at an American public school. Having taught in both of the countries you referenced, I'd say your analysis is mostly correct, however, there are bad schools with unruly students in China (local Chinese "international" schools). I was in line for a job at one of those, so they asked me to come in and give a demo lesson. The students were so poorly behaved that I stopped the lesson after 15 minutes, walked to the back of the classroom and shook the observing administrator's hand, and walked out the door. If kids can't behave for a guest, there's no way they're going to behave for daily lessons. I'm not going to spend two months trying to establish basic discipline and classroom procedures.

As far as positions for recent grads in Colombia, you'd need a credential. I guess I didn't explain that well enough. If you graduate from a teaching program, you will have already done your student teaching/internship. In that case, you would have the credential. I know schools in places like Honduras or Bolivia might hire you to do your student teaching there. They are really that hard-pressed for teachers.

The best way to find positions in schools like those is to go to one of the job fairs like the one at the University of Northern Iowa. You can also just start contacting schools on your own. Here's a few links:

UNI International Teaching Fair
https://teachoverseas.uni.edu/fair

Association of American Schools of South America:
http://www.aassa.com/

Association of American Schools of Central America:
http://www.aascaonline.net/index.php/dir...of-schools

There are more "American" schools in those places than the ones registered for those associations. You just need to look for them yourself. ISS has a map listing the vast majority of them at this link:
https://recruit.iss.edu/school-map

ISS and Search Associates would be your go-to recruiting fairs for Asian or European tier-one schools.
(This post was last modified: 06-22-2017 05:47 PM by jdreise.)
06-22-2017 05:42 PM
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Post: #36
RE: The International Teaching Thread
(06-21-2017 09:34 PM)airelibre Wrote:  I'm also teaching at an international school. Previously I taught EFL in Korea for 5 years, did TeacherReady to earn my social studies grade 6-12 credential, which helped me get my current job.

@ElMono - I would contact TeacherReady directly to ask if you could qualify for that subject. Florida lists psychology under social science, not natural/hard sciences; however, since you are doing an alternative certification program, you prove subject competence just by passing the relevant FTCE exam, if I recall correctly. Double-check with the TR staff on this to be sure though.

Plan B: you definitely would qualify for a social science credential based on your psych BA, and after you have the social science credential, you can add other subjects to your credential just by passing the relevant FTCE exam (seems ridiculous, passing an exam makes you qualified to teach a subject?? but this is Florida we are talking about...). Now you're dual-certified, which could be a selling point depending on what the school's staffing needs are.

Physics & Chemistry are the high-demand science subjects. In general, schools care about your experience, specifically curriculum experience (IB, AP, IGCSE/A-levels) - no amount of education/certificates beats experience. Regardless of what your credential is in, expect your first school to be not great, and you'll work your way up from there each subsequent contract, until you find a place you'd like to settle (if that's your thing).

@boss13 - the Western coworkers can be a pain, but also easy to avoid since everyone is busy, all the time. The only issue is the staffroom, but really, you shouldn't be hanging out in the staff room every break/free period, because it's ground zero for negativity, gossip, bitching & moaning, and just generally miserable.

I choose to spend that time in my classroom planning, marking, or taking walks to clear my head. The best teachers I've met recommend the same, and are rarely seen in the staff room.

Schools are also terrible rumor mills (some more than others), so best to just come in, teach the best you can, let your work speak for itself, and socialize with non-coworkers. As long as you have a good rapport with Admin, and handle your own responsibilities, you will avoid most of the petty politics and annoying coworkers.

@Moto - I would respectfully disagree that only a M.Ed counts, unless we are talking leadership (Principal/VP). In that case, yes, you pretty much need to have a M.Ed to get an administrative credential and ultimately to be a competitive candidate.

However, for classroom teaching, a subject-area master's is fine, and will give you a pay bump at many schools (same in most USA states). The main thing a school is looking for is a valid credential from the USA/Canada/UK/Australia/NZ. Anything beyond that just makes you more competitive and gives you some leverage during salary negotiations.

Do you know if an other states have policies like this? This seems interesting but living in Florida would be a drag for me.
06-22-2017 10:34 PM
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boss13 Offline
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RE: The International Teaching Thread
(06-22-2017 05:42 PM)jdreise Wrote:  Having taught in both of the countries you referenced, I'd say your analysis is mostly correct, however, there are bad schools with unruly students in China (local Chinese "international" schools). I was in line for a job at one of those, so they asked me to come in and give a demo lesson. The students were so poorly behaved that I stopped the lesson after 15 minutes, walked to the back of the classroom and shook the observing administrator's hand, and walked out the door. If kids can't behave for a guest, there's no way they're going to behave for daily lessons. I'm not going to spend two months trying to establish basic discipline and classroom procedures.

I didn't know Chinese students could be that bad. I was seriously considering teaching at a math/science high school or 3rd-tier "international" school

Are there any signs that can help determine if a school will be poorly managed like the school you mentioned? Would you say the school like you described is the norm for 3rd-tier schools that will hire teachers without teaching licenses?
06-23-2017 12:29 AM
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airelibre Offline
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Post: #38
RE: The International Teaching Thread
(06-22-2017 10:34 PM)Heart Break Kid Wrote:  
(06-21-2017 09:34 PM)airelibre Wrote:  ...

Plan B: you definitely would qualify for a social science credential based on your psych BA, and after you have the social science credential, you can add other subjects to your credential just by passing the relevant FTCE exam (seems ridiculous, passing an exam makes you qualified to teach a subject?? but this is Florida we are talking about...). Now you're dual-certified, which could be a selling point depending on what the school's staffing needs are.

...

Do you know if an other states have policies like this? This seems interesting but living in Florida would be a drag for me.

Not sure about other states, but there's no need to live in Florida if you do TeacherReady - it's an online certification program. I completed the whole program at an international school in South Korea. The coursework is all online, and you can do your student-teaching at any school that is accredited (WASC or similar).

You do need to go back to the USA to take the certification exams (FTCE) but you can do that at almost any Pearson testing center, in any state.

Afterwards, you can transfer your credential to some other state but that's a whole process on its own.
06-23-2017 03:44 AM
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jdreise Offline
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RE: The International Teaching Thread
(06-23-2017 12:29 AM)boss13 Wrote:  
(06-22-2017 05:42 PM)jdreise Wrote:  Having taught in both of the countries you referenced, I'd say your analysis is mostly correct, however, there are bad schools with unruly students in China (local Chinese "international" schools). I was in line for a job at one of those, so they asked me to come in and give a demo lesson. The students were so poorly behaved that I stopped the lesson after 15 minutes, walked to the back of the classroom and shook the observing administrator's hand, and walked out the door. If kids can't behave for a guest, there's no way they're going to behave for daily lessons. I'm not going to spend two months trying to establish basic discipline and classroom procedures.

I didn't know Chinese students could be that bad. I was seriously considering teaching at a math/science high school or 3rd-tier "international" school

Are there any signs that can help determine if a school will be poorly managed like the school you mentioned? Would you say the school like you described is the norm for 3rd-tier schools that will hire teachers without teaching licenses?

Generally speaking, I'd say poor behavior is the exception, while good behavior is closer to the rule.

If the school has been around a while, they might have reviews on internationalschoolsreview.com. Any one of these local "international schools" that's been around for longer than 5 years in China's hyper-competitive education industry, must be doing some things right.

If it's a start-up, then ask for permission to speak to a current teacher. Most teachers are not loyal enough to a school to straight up lie to your face about bad conditions, but they might not also be inclined to tell you directly, lest it put their head on the chopping block. You need to read between the lines. If the teacher tells you the kids are well-behaved and on task, they probably are. If the teacher says something like "most of our kids come from privilege, and although the majority do want to succeed, concentration and effort can be an issue," you know they're spoiled little punks.

This is really only applicable to 3rd-tier schools. Shanghai American School is on a different level and you wouldn't have to worry about these issues. No schools in first or second-tier status are going to hire you without a license, and none of them are going to let problem students hang around just to collect tuition payments. Those are third tier problems.
06-23-2017 11:14 AM
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Post: #40
RE: The International Teaching Thread
How are the kids like at international schools? Aren't alot of the kids the children of western expats? If so, wouldn't they be extremely spoiled and entitled (especially the female students)? How do you deal with that? Would the admin take their side over yours if those kids caused problems?
06-25-2017 01:03 AM
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RE: The International Teaching Thread
I got a job for an international school starting in the fall. I have limited classroom experience having done an in class TEFL and completed an alternative teaching program that had limited classroom experience. Any suggestions going in? I'm going to be relatively green at this. I was planning on watching YouTube videos of example classes and taking notes and am trying to get an online esl gig teaching Chinese kids to get some teaching experience. Any ideas would or thoughts would be helpful.
04-09-2019 03:17 PM
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Polero Offline
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RE: The International Teaching Thread
Such an interesting thread. I've been an international teacher for 9 years now and I'm currently working in an international school. I love my job, the conditions are pretty good, I'm learning lots, have a good lifestyle and I'm saving more than 50% of my salary.

Some posters were discussing the entry requirements in these schools, I can speak for my school: Bachelor's degree + 2 years of teaching experience, a Masters is not a requirement but it definitely helps having one - I actually have two Masters - saying so, and someone mentioned this earlier: sometimes teachers leave unexpectedly for a variety of reasons and if a school really needs someone, the requirements can be lowered -If there's a commitment from the teacher to get whatever qualification is missing- but I wouldn't count on this to get a job.

I've never worked in the US but I know lots of people who have worked in the US & in Canada and I believe they all said working in a public school there is much harder and demanding, I can confirm that working in a private school in western Europe was much harder and I had longer hours and duties less enjoyable, ie attending mass. I'm sure this also has to do with work satisfaction and all that, I don't mind going on school trips, field trips, running language clubs at lunch time, coaching sports etc I actually enjoy doing it.
04-09-2019 09:23 PM
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