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On identity and insecurities
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duedue Offline
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Post: #1
On identity and insecurities
I've realized that identity (along with frame) is a very important part of game. Now that I think about times past when a girl gave me IOIs and I didn't approach it was mostly because I didn't really know how to present myself ("who I am"). And the problem still exists and it seems to stem mostly from some insecurities. For example:

Having a nerdy job,
Having a small social circle,
Having a hirsute body,
[some stuff that may be construed as race trolling]

I know that game is all about what you can pull off as opposed to what you really are but still don't know what I can/should present myself as. For example I can't present myself as a musician because I can't play any instruments but can to some extent present myself as a photographer because that's my hobby. It is said that a strong frame results from strong reality and my reality is shrouded with doubt and uncertainty.

A whore ain't nothing but a trick to a pimp. (Iceberg Slim)
Beauty is in the erection of the beholder. (duedue)
Grab your life by the pussy.
A better question to ask is "What EXACTLY do I want out of life and what EXACTLY am I doing to get EXACTLY that? If you can answer that question truthfully you will be the most Alpha motherfucker you will ever need to be. (PapayaTapper)
06-11-2017 07:19 AM
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Post: #2
RE: On identity and insecurities
(06-11-2017 07:19 AM)duedue Wrote:  I've realized that identity (along with frame) is a very important part of game. Now that I think about times past when a girl gave me IOIs and I didn't approach it was mostly because I didn't really know how to present myself ("who I am"). And the problem still exists and it seems to stem mostly from some insecurities. For example:

Having a nerdy job,
Having a small social circle,
Having a hirsute body,
[some stuff that may be construed as race trolling]

I know that game is all about what you can pull off as opposed to what you really are but still don't know what I can/should present myself as. For example I can't present myself as a musician because I can't play any instruments but can to some extent present myself as a photographer because that's my hobby. It is said that a strong frame results from strong reality and my reality is shrouded with doubt and uncertainty.

Nah, your job shouldn't matter. If you let your job matter, than essentially you present yourself as a provider and supplicate for acceptance on the basis of what you do. Essentially, it's not who you are - a man shouldn't be defined by his job. Job is only an extension of who you are.

If you present yourself as a badboy-lover what should matter is your attitude and your persona as defining centrefield, your vibe and how you make her feel.

The moment a girl asks you what do you do for the living (or a variation thereof) is you selling yourself as a provider chump, thus not doing it right (unless you really are seeking a future mother of your children but that's a bad precedence anyway to start with - she should want you, not your money) And who wants a full-time job in which you pay for instead to get paid?

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(This post was last modified: 06-11-2017 08:25 AM by ksbms.)
06-11-2017 08:24 AM
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Post: #3
RE: On identity and insecurities
(06-11-2017 07:19 AM)duedue Wrote:  I've realized that identity (along with frame) is a very important part of game. Now that I think about times past when a girl gave me IOIs and I didn't approach it was mostly because I didn't really know how to present myself ("who I am"). And the problem still exists and it seems to stem mostly from some insecurities. For example:

Having a nerdy job,
Having a small social circle,
Having a hirsute body,
[some stuff that may be construed as race trolling]

I know that game is all about what you can pull off as opposed to what you really are but still don't know what I can/should present myself as. For example I can't present myself as a musician because I can't play any instruments but can to some extent present myself as a photographer because that's my hobby. It is said that a strong frame results from strong reality and my reality is shrouded with doubt and uncertainty.

Bad game is about what you can pull off. It's inauthentic, and not even really a form of game. That's the kind of stuff you see PUA's do, and it comes across as fake because it really is.

Good game is completely authentic, and that's what it seems you're struggling with. Present yourself as who you are. You could be in a circus, but if you can communicate value and confidence (IE: I can do all these things others can't, I've seen all these places others haven't, etc) it doesn't matter. Women will still sleep with you. The ones you want don't care. What do you do in music?

Your reality is plenty strong, whatever it is. Embrace it unapologetically.

That said, it won't hurt if you pack some muscle on. Nothing quite strengthens your reality like taking some heavy weight for a ride in the gym, and the physique to match.

5 Week Strength Program Now Available
06-11-2017 08:42 AM
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Post: #4
RE: On identity and insecurities
Here is my take:

Most of what people consider "game" is an attempt to change ones personality in front of a woman to make themselves more attractive. It's walking around with a bag full of mask, and trying to figure out which one to put on at the certain time. You'll get laid a few times, sure, but you'll eventually fall apart and probably become jaded with this game stuff because you're tired of being "fake".

What I learned, and it took me a lot of time after hurting a lot of people and playing a lot of games, is what you should really present yourself as is who you are. As long as you show up as a man, tell a woman you like her, and invite her to join you in your life, that's all you really need to do. Games and all these fun personalities are really unnecessary. The problem is men don't show up and when they do, they hide their intentions and act like a salesman.

If you walk up to a woman you like in a cafe or bookshop and say " You know what, I got nothing fancy in my life and I don't even know what direction I'm heading in, but I would really like to make you dinner." If she finds you attractive, she will be riding your dick in 5 hours --Guaranteed. Why? Because you showed up like a man and that's what women are lacking in their lives -- real masculine men.

That's all it is. That's all it takes. Forget the identity stuff. You are born, you suffer, and then you die. In between those stimulus you need to figure out what you want that makes you happy, maybe that's a job with a fancy title, or maybe it waking up beside a beautiful woman feeling loved, kissing her, and going to hit the gym with your friends. No one can tell you what's right or wrong, it's your life. You have to fill the gaps with happiness and in that, you find your true identity -- A man walking the world alone, refusing to cast pearls before swine, treating others with kindness, and being vulnerable to love and living in the moment, even if it eventually fades, as love usually does.
06-11-2017 09:11 AM
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lonewolf1992 Offline
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Post: #5
RE: On identity and insecurities
Quote:As long as you show up as a man, tell a woman you like her, and invite her to join you in your life, that's all you really need to do

Hi Linux, I'm a newbie too. Isn't this handsome guy game?. I mean, women don't give a crap if you play world of warcraft, read harry potter, or work in a science lab as long as you have good physique/resources/confidence/success. Cheers

Colombian local. Fan of music, arts, films, Football, history, masculinity. Non-native english speaker, please have patience with me.

"Health is the greatest gift, contentment the greatest wealth, faithfulness the best relationship." Buddha
(This post was last modified: 06-11-2017 02:55 PM by lonewolf1992.)
06-11-2017 02:54 PM
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duedue Offline
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Post: #6
RE: On identity and insecurities
LINUX, to me your story means that you transformed into a better person after trying various guises. In other words the mask can become your real face. (There is actually a fairy tale like this whose name I can't remember.) The whole point of self improvement is that you're not satisfied with what you are (and will probably never be). This doesn't mean that you hate yourself, or you think grass is greener on the other side or that you want to change yourself only for the sake of others.

For the example of walking up to a woman in a cafe, if you have sunken eyes, a tired and unsure voice, a big grin and a slouching posture and you utter that sentence, I don't think any girls would find that attractive.

A whore ain't nothing but a trick to a pimp. (Iceberg Slim)
Beauty is in the erection of the beholder. (duedue)
Grab your life by the pussy.
A better question to ask is "What EXACTLY do I want out of life and what EXACTLY am I doing to get EXACTLY that? If you can answer that question truthfully you will be the most Alpha motherfucker you will ever need to be. (PapayaTapper)
06-11-2017 08:31 PM
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H1N1 Offline
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Post: #7
RE: On identity and insecurities
(06-11-2017 07:19 AM)duedue Wrote:  I've realized that identity (along with frame) is a very important part of game. Now that I think about times past when a girl gave me IOIs and I didn't approach it was mostly because I didn't really know how to present myself ("who I am"). And the problem still exists and it seems to stem mostly from some insecurities. For example:

Having a nerdy job,
Having a small social circle,
Having a hirsute body,
[some stuff that may be construed as race trolling]

I know that game is all about what you can pull off as opposed to what you really are but still don't know what I can/should present myself as. For example I can't present myself as a musician because I can't play any instruments but can to some extent present myself as a photographer because that's my hobby. It is said that a strong frame results from strong reality and my reality is shrouded with doubt and uncertainty.

Being likable is not something that depends on your job, your social circle, your personal topiary or anything else.

Like you I have a nerdy job (I run a tech company that does hardcore nerd stuff of no interest at all to women)
Like you I have a small social circle
I usually wear glasses
My accent marks me out from most of the population in a way that must be overcome to create comfort
90% of the time I wear a collared shirt and a blazer or tweed jacket, meaning I am much more formally dressed than my contemporaries

Yet I'm able to be very successful with some extremely pretty girls. Why is that? Well, simply being a nerd doesn't preclude you being funny, charming, charismatic, erudite, engaging, outrageous, cheeky, interesting, compassionate or indeed anything else that makes you attractive to women (or, more importantly, engaging company for other men). Sure, some will be turned off if you don't look like you just climbed off the front cover of Flex magazine, just as some will be turned off if you don't have a 9" wang, or are under 6' tall. It's not worth a second thought.

My advice would simply be to embrace being a nerd, if that's what you are. The mistake people make is in thinking that if they are a certain way naturally, they must dedicate themselves to conforming to type. You can be a nerd who is charming, funny and cheeky, with a good physique or who can fight - you don't have to decide that because you're a nerd you must now bore the shit out of everyone with your knowledge of War Hammer trivia, or indeed that you have to be some kind of weakling or pushover.

The point in all of this is to learn how to make a virtue of who you are, and communicate that out into the world in such a way that others see that virtue too. You might be a nerd who loves football stats, for example, but if you know a lot about football then all you need to do is figure out how to talk about it at a level that allows others to be interested too.
06-12-2017 05:25 AM
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Mr. Nobody From Nowhere Offline
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RE: On identity and insecurities
Being hirsute is supposed to be bad?
06-12-2017 08:30 AM
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Post: #9
RE: On identity and insecurities
(06-11-2017 09:11 AM)LINUX Wrote:  If you walk up to a woman you like in a cafe or bookshop and say " You know what, I got nothing fancy in my life and I don't even know what direction I'm heading in, but I would really like to make you dinner." If she finds you attractive, she will be riding your dick in 5 hours --Guaranteed. Why? Because you showed up like a man and that's what women are lacking in their lives -- real masculine men.

This is good advice. I've found that I've grown most and had the best results in life when I have thrown myself off the deep end, had no/few alternatives, had to plow forward and even a little or a lot of desperation. In such circumstances there is no time for FUD or not being yourself.

To channel such a mentality you need to convince yourself there is no other option.

(06-11-2017 08:31 PM)duedue Wrote:  For the example of walking up to a woman in a cafe, if you have sunken eyes, a tired and unsure voice, a big grin and a slouching posture and you utter that sentence, I don't think any girls would find that attractive.

There's always girls below your SMV.

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World Stocks Have Underperformed The US By The Most Since The Financial Crisis - 1 Sep 2018
06-12-2017 01:08 PM
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Post: #10
IT Jobs
That parody video about women had a scene in it with the rich/not-rich button and the punch-line where a guy was staring at a computer screen and she pushed the not-rich button and the teacher said "No, this is programmer. Programmer is rich."

[Image: MMEoXV2l.jpg]

Women already know that bits and bytes rule the modern world. After all, they're the ones with their eyes stuck in their cell-phones 24/7. So as far as social status goes, I don't think disclosing that you're a programmer should be as much of a liability as it was maybe 20 years ago.

Pound for pound when it comes to white-collar jobs, IT dwarfs all others. Women who refuse to date guys who work in tech are excluding a huge chunk of otherwise successful males. I mean, there are only so many investment bankers, lawyers, and doctors out there.
(This post was last modified: 06-12-2017 01:19 PM by questor70.)
06-12-2017 01:15 PM
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Post: #11
RE: On identity and insecurities
(06-11-2017 09:11 AM)LINUX Wrote:  Here is my take:

Most of what people consider "game" is an attempt to change ones personality in front of a woman to make themselves more attractive. It's walking around with a bag full of mask, and trying to figure out which one to put on at the certain time. You'll get laid a few times, sure, but you'll eventually fall apart and probably become jaded with this game stuff because you're tired of being "fake".

What I learned, and it took me a lot of time after hurting a lot of people and playing a lot of games, is what you should really present yourself as is who you are. As long as you show up as a man, tell a woman you like her, and invite her to join you in your life, that's all you really need to do. Games and all these fun personalities are really unnecessary. The problem is men don't show up and when they do, they hide their intentions and act like a salesman.

If you walk up to a woman you like in a cafe or bookshop and say " You know what, I got nothing fancy in my life and I don't even know what direction I'm heading in, but I would really like to make you dinner." If she finds you attractive, she will be riding your dick in 5 hours --Guaranteed. Why? Because you showed up like a man and that's what women are lacking in their lives -- real masculine men.

That's all it is. That's all it takes. Forget the identity stuff. You are born, you suffer, and then you die. In between those stimulus you need to figure out what you want that makes you happy, maybe that's a job with a fancy title, or maybe it waking up beside a beautiful woman feeling loved, kissing her, and going to hit the gym with your friends. No one can tell you what's right or wrong, it's your life. You have to fill the gaps with happiness and in that, you find your true identity -- A man walking the world alone, refusing to cast pearls before swine, treating others with kindness, and being vulnerable to love and living in the moment, even if it eventually fades, as love usually does.

simply great post, one of the best

Roosh Wrote:Only full digestion of the red pill can make these situations come out in your favor.
06-23-2017 11:07 PM
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RE: On identity and insecurities
(06-11-2017 09:11 AM)LINUX Wrote:  Here is my take:

Most of what people consider "game" is an attempt to change ones personality in front of a woman to make themselves more attractive. It's walking around with a bag full of mask, and trying to figure out which one to put on at the certain time. You'll get laid a few times, sure, but you'll eventually fall apart and probably become jaded with this game stuff because you're tired of being "fake".

What I learned, and it took me a lot of time after hurting a lot of people and playing a lot of games, is what you should really present yourself as is who you are. As long as you show up as a man, tell a woman you like her, and invite her to join you in your life, that's all you really need to do. Games and all these fun personalities are really unnecessary. The problem is men don't show up and when they do, they hide their intentions and act like a salesman.

If you walk up to a woman you like in a cafe or bookshop and say " You know what, I got nothing fancy in my life and I don't even know what direction I'm heading in, but I would really like to make you dinner." If she finds you attractive, she will be riding your dick in 5 hours --Guaranteed. Why? Because you showed up like a man and that's what women are lacking in their lives -- real masculine men.

That's all it is. That's all it takes. Forget the identity stuff. You are born, you suffer, and then you die. In between those stimulus you need to figure out what you want that makes you happy, maybe that's a job with a fancy title, or maybe it waking up beside a beautiful woman feeling loved, kissing her, and going to hit the gym with your friends. No one can tell you what's right or wrong, it's your life. You have to fill the gaps with happiness and in that, you find your true identity -- A man walking the world alone, refusing to cast pearls before swine, treating others with kindness, and being vulnerable to love and living in the moment, even if it eventually fades, as love usually does.

Clap

This post should be pinned to the top of RVF.

Anyone having any doubts about this area of their life should read it every morning until they fully understand it.

If "Succeeding with Women" were a graduate level course, this would be the course synopsis.
(This post was last modified: 06-23-2017 11:19 PM by Spaniard88.)
06-23-2017 11:11 PM
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RE: On identity and insecurities
(06-23-2017 11:11 PM)Spaniard88 Wrote:  
(06-11-2017 09:11 AM)LINUX Wrote:  Here is my take:

Most of what people consider "game" is an attempt to change ones personality in front of a woman to make themselves more attractive. It's walking around with a bag full of mask, and trying to figure out which one to put on at the certain time. You'll get laid a few times, sure, but you'll eventually fall apart and probably become jaded with this game stuff because you're tired of being "fake".

What I learned, and it took me a lot of time after hurting a lot of people and playing a lot of games, is what you should really present yourself as is who you are. As long as you show up as a man, tell a woman you like her, and invite her to join you in your life, that's all you really need to do. Games and all these fun personalities are really unnecessary. The problem is men don't show up and when they do, they hide their intentions and act like a salesman.

If you walk up to a woman you like in a cafe or bookshop and say " You know what, I got nothing fancy in my life and I don't even know what direction I'm heading in, but I would really like to make you dinner." If she finds you attractive, she will be riding your dick in 5 hours --Guaranteed. Why? Because you showed up like a man and that's what women are lacking in their lives -- real masculine men.

That's all it is. That's all it takes. Forget the identity stuff. You are born, you suffer, and then you die. In between those stimulus you need to figure out what you want that makes you happy, maybe that's a job with a fancy title, or maybe it waking up beside a beautiful woman feeling loved, kissing her, and going to hit the gym with your friends. No one can tell you what's right or wrong, it's your life. You have to fill the gaps with happiness and in that, you find your true identity -- A man walking the world alone, refusing to cast pearls before swine, treating others with kindness, and being vulnerable to love and living in the moment, even if it eventually fades, as love usually does.

Clap

This post should be pinned to the top of RVF.

Anyone having any doubts about this area of their life should read it every morning until they fully understand it.

If "Succeeding with Women" were a graduate level course, this would be the course synopsis.

If I could rep him again I would. Legendary, with so many amazing posts. 100%!

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06-23-2017 11:54 PM
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Cold Offline
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Post: #14
RE: On identity and insecurities
There has already been extremely good advice given but here's my two pence. Imagine a warrior and his sword, regardless of whether his sword is rusty or not, a skilled warrior will destroy most people in his path. A warrior who is not as good, will not be able to defeat the skilled warrior even if he has a good sword. Thats how I like to think of our attributes in the game as weapons of course we can sharpen some of them (job, body hair) but some issues we cannot fix(height, race), in that case your skill in the game (passing sh#t tests and conversational skills, etc) will have to help you.

So what I'm trying to say is that some parts of your identity are out of your control, those parts you can embrace( e.g im pretty average height at 176-178cm)

You're right your frame beats your game. I've been approaching for not long now but I do have experience in public speaking e.g presenting and poetry. I found that you have to truly believe in everything you say when you are communicating with the crowd, and have a clear goal in mind, make the audience(her)come into your frame.

Check this out:
https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-39076.html ( the paragraph on fear can be applied to approaching)

and this http://www.masculinedevelopment.com/girl...ot-creepy/ ( should help with identity)

In day bang Roosh says it helps to have a slogan during day game, but I think it is just helpful overall for your identity, for example he says his slogan is " “Traveller and writer who goes against the mainstream.”

I think mine would be " Aspiring --- student and fighter, with a deep interest in politics and the community" , of course there may be more but this compact way of describing yourself may make it easier to open without much prep, as you already know who you are.

1.So I would try defining yourself using your passions and hobbies
2. find out your purpose/passion and following it (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmiBcHJpKR0)( within reason though some passions e.g for me drawing/art are not enough to be a strong source of income)
3.Embracing certain aspects you can't change( I have a friend who is hairy, you can shave if you want but it doesn't seem to effect his game, in fact some girls may like it )

The yang part of this also helped (http://www.masculinedevelopment.com/masc...ttractive/ )

I'm not advanced in the game and I do understand that this is easier said than done as I am experiencing right now.

-Cold

I try to ask myself:
-Whats your end goal in the game ?
-Do you have a long term goal that makes you wake up in the morning ?
-Where do you come from ? / Whats your history ?
-Whats in your future ?
06-29-2017 08:08 PM
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Post: #15
RE: On identity and insecurities
Built to Fade is Built to Remind you of great posts.

Roosh Wrote:Only full digestion of the red pill can make these situations come out in your favor.
11-28-2018 12:13 PM
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