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London
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MatineeMan Offline
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Post: #151
RE: London
(10-18-2015 08:03 AM)Que enspastic Wrote:  
(10-13-2015 04:26 PM)MatineeMan Wrote:  London is a masterstroke of marketing spin. A great example of where the everyday reality of social dynamics could not be more different to what is portrayed on film, TV and in books/magazines etc. Even the internet hasn't destroyed the delusions many people have of London. Respect to anybody who bought in an awful part of the city 20+ years ago but now find it has become very fashionable. I have friends who did this and they never really need to work again from the crazy increase of London house prices.

London's real problem is its "affordability". I am tight with one clique of international bankers & lawyers who live in Kensington and Sloane Square area and one clique of home grown North Londoners who may have been middle class once but due to property prices all have very capital-rich parents and arguably now top 1% UK. I'm not rich myself but I do have good social skills, dual passport holder and work in fashion industry so I can blend into these scenes without difficulty.

They all have solid lifestyles. House parties in West London mansions, access to promoters who run high-end clubs and get them in free, regular trips to South of France, New York City, Miami & Vegas, Berlin & Prague, lots of coke and pills, Secret Garden Party festivals, a constant focus on hustling with digital start ups and property marketing schemes, cocktails and dinners out in Soho. Property is expensive but they can afford the rent or have parents helping them out and can leave London anytime. They all have well educated international friends - French, Australians, Americans, Italians, etc.

What I find interesting is that they have little knowledge or interest in the rest of the UK (except Oxford), it's like some kind of embarrassing backwater to them where people read the Daily Mail instead of The Financial Times, eat shit food, get fat, can't handle their alcohol, dress like shit and will kick up a fuss about 5p bags.

It's a good life but the commonality is either £60/70k+ salaries and/or parents who will set them up with property, either now in their 20s or down the line when they kick the bucket. Obviously London doesn't work for most people but for a minority of the population it is a seriously fun global alpha city where deals are made, self-images crafted and big parties thrown.




I also still know a few of the North London set in Hampstead and Highgate, but without their parents help there is no way the kids you describe wanting a good lifestyle would have moved out independently until at a reasonably high level in a six figure profession.

They also told me that these meagre salaries below £100k are sustainable for the dandy lifestyle they lead, but it is far more often the case of a collective family and even peer front to what is often true wealth hidden deeply in assets, 'charities' and foundations aka 'so and so trust funds', or deep family wealth hidden in tax havens abroad and domestically in many acres of land and property. So believe me it is the parents and family relations wealth helping in setting them up not their salary. They often like to pretend it is their own hardwork that gives them these huge deposits for mortgages on 7 figure properties while they have also been spending partying and on rents. If you grill them on this though they can soon turn defensive and fall out with you. This demonstrates a strong reason why talk of wealth and how much money you earn is considered so vulgar, ill mannered and rude in Uk society. It is because of what this taboo would expose to the higher asset classes that is considered to be 'improper' and almost taboo to discuss personal wealth, even sometimes amongst friends.

I don't doubt your claims here about these people as true, but think of how many who consider moving to London as adults on this forum will be living those kind of lifestyles. I also mixed with some of these people you describe at university, with the girls commonly found in Tatler and Countrylife, although much of this has probably moved online now. I was quite rare because of the UK university rankings often correlating to student wealth especially with elite ranking universities downwards, this is due to quality of education relating to results more than sheer ability. It is common for private schools to get an average student score of AAB and above whereas a comprehensive sixth form college kid with poor resources and big class sizes has to be outstanding or extremely hardworking to get these results, in the eighties anyway. Forgive me for the lack of modesty.

Who knows, some people here may join that 1%, personally I find interacting with them is often shallow, vacuous and they are unbelievably sheltered about 'real life' outside West London, Val d'Isere and St. Tropez.

Rags to riches like Alan Sugar and Kate Moss are well known because they are so unlike the Martha Lane Fox and Carla Delevinge background, who while they probably showed initiative and ambition could easily walk into prominent positions in their industries through connections, while they seemingly unironically moan about male privilege and inequality.

Although affordability is part of it I just don't want it selling to disappointed dreaming people with misconceptions about London that they will live like this without the wealth, career portfolio or connections when moving to London, like New York and other alpha world cities. For every man living his dream in London there are many more under the bridge in cardboard boxes or living in the alleyway gutters.

I could say what the media do about the lifestyle of certain partners in magic circle law firms and city banks, CEOs or premier league footballers, but people considering London need to think about how many truly end up living this glamourised luxurious lifestyle relative to how many professional footballers struggle in the lower leagues barely earning enough to live independently in London, or actually have the connections to live the advertised 'only way is Chelsea' lifestyle. But it is this aspiration across Britain and especially London that keeps the middle classes and those below working so unthinkingly hard in the fantasy they might somehow find a way to join into this lifestyle.

The average middle class person in the wealthy non-aristocratic UK definition of the term (not lower middle class UK as America seems to use the term middle class differently, noticing squabbles created by this interpretation including on this forum Undecided) lifestyle is still far more 'comfortable' in Melbourne, Milan or Munich as M letter examples of world cities for middle class professionals. But yes if you are elite level upper class multi millionaire wealth then London is up there with the best alpha world cities.

But London sells the dream brilliantly and gets very hardworking professional people spending many hours away in the office (any job of decent money in London is very often signed out of the EU working time labour directive laws as UK has opt out on this EU directive). They are often exhausted and spend much of their disposable income on an invariably tired or shabby little rental property (Landlord's not tenants market due to huge undersupply issue), when they are not too tired to socialise. The tax rate of 40% for any London professional job also leaves far lower disposable income once the unglamorous items such as utilities, transport etc are taken into account.

As I say, it is a masterstroke by the 1% who you describe that actually importantly own even if not running these companies, having the middle classes working so hard to give them their lifestyle by dangling the hopes they can join them through their labour, whilst they make the very money to sustain their lifestyles. Also coming from their interests in assets from land and rental leaseholds (few London properties are actually freehold in the most exclusive areas of the city, still owned often by various aristocratic dynasties of Earls and Dukes).

As a side note, I do not see myself as some bitter Marxist, just trying to give the red pill reality as I have lived and seen it without the piles of false bullsh*t the media and establishment give disingenuously and misleadingly in order to sustain their various societal and economic ponzi schemes.


Oh and chin up everybody! Have a nice day.
10-18-2015 12:45 PM
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apolis Offline
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Post: #152
RE: London
Cities like London shouldn't be discussed at all on this forum. It's exactly what we all trying to avoid, traveling to hell holes in search of the pure essence.
10-18-2015 04:16 PM
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Que enspastic Offline
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Post: #153
RE: London
(10-18-2015 12:45 PM)MatineeMan Wrote:  
(10-18-2015 08:03 AM)Que enspastic Wrote:  
(10-13-2015 04:26 PM)MatineeMan Wrote:  London is a masterstroke of marketing spin. A great example of where the everyday reality of social dynamics could not be more different to what is portrayed on film, TV and in books/magazines etc. Even the internet hasn't destroyed the delusions many people have of London. Respect to anybody who bought in an awful part of the city 20+ years ago but now find it has become very fashionable. I have friends who did this and they never really need to work again from the crazy increase of London house prices.

London's real problem is its "affordability". I am tight with one clique of international bankers & lawyers who live in Kensington and Sloane Square area and one clique of home grown North Londoners who may have been middle class once but due to property prices all have very capital-rich parents and arguably now top 1% UK. I'm not rich myself but I do have good social skills, dual passport holder and work in fashion industry so I can blend into these scenes without difficulty.

They all have solid lifestyles. House parties in West London mansions, access to promoters who run high-end clubs and get them in free, regular trips to South of France, New York City, Miami & Vegas, Berlin & Prague, lots of coke and pills, Secret Garden Party festivals, a constant focus on hustling with digital start ups and property marketing schemes, cocktails and dinners out in Soho. Property is expensive but they can afford the rent or have parents helping them out and can leave London anytime. They all have well educated international friends - French, Australians, Americans, Italians, etc.

What I find interesting is that they have little knowledge or interest in the rest of the UK (except Oxford), it's like some kind of embarrassing backwater to them where people read the Daily Mail instead of The Financial Times, eat shit food, get fat, can't handle their alcohol, dress like shit and will kick up a fuss about 5p bags.

It's a good life but the commonality is either £60/70k+ salaries and/or parents who will set them up with property, either now in their 20s or down the line when they kick the bucket. Obviously London doesn't work for most people but for a minority of the population it is a seriously fun global alpha city where deals are made, self-images crafted and big parties thrown.




I also still know a few of the North London set in Hampstead and Highgate, but without their parents help there is no way the kids you describe wanting a good lifestyle would have moved out independently until at a reasonably high level in a six figure profession.

They also told me that these meagre salaries below £100k are sustainable for the dandy lifestyle they lead, but it is far more often the case of a collective family and even peer front to what is often true wealth hidden deeply in assets, 'charities' and foundations aka 'so and so trust funds', or deep family wealth hidden in tax havens abroad and domestically in many acres of land and property. So believe me it is the parents and family relations wealth helping in setting them up not their salary. They often like to pretend it is their own hardwork that gives them these huge deposits for mortgages on 7 figure properties while they have also been spending partying and on rents. If you grill them on this though they can soon turn defensive and fall out with you. This demonstrates a strong reason why talk of wealth and how much money you earn is considered so vulgar, ill mannered and rude in Uk society. It is because of what this taboo would expose to the higher asset classes that is considered to be 'improper' and almost taboo to discuss personal wealth, even sometimes amongst friends.

I don't doubt your claims here about these people as true, but think of how many who consider moving to London as adults on this forum will be living those kind of lifestyles. I also mixed with some of these people you describe at university, with the girls commonly found in Tatler and Countrylife, although much of this has probably moved online now. I was quite rare because of the UK university rankings often correlating to student wealth especially with elite ranking universities downwards, this is due to quality of education relating to results more than sheer ability. It is common for private schools to get an average student score of AAB and above whereas a comprehensive sixth form college kid with poor resources and big class sizes has to be outstanding or extremely hardworking to get these results, in the eighties anyway. Forgive me for the lack of modesty.

Who knows, some people here may join that 1%, personally I find interacting with them is often shallow, vacuous and they are unbelievably sheltered about 'real life' outside West London, Val d'Isere and St. Tropez.

Rags to riches like Alan Sugar and Kate Moss are well known because they are so unlike the Martha Lane Fox and Carla Delevinge background, who while they probably showed initiative and ambition could easily walk into prominent positions in their industries through connections, while they seemingly unironically moan about male privilege and inequality.

Although affordability is part of it I just don't want it selling to disappointed dreaming people with misconceptions about London that they will live like this without the wealth, career portfolio or connections when moving to London, like New York and other alpha world cities. For every man living his dream in London there are many more under the bridge in cardboard boxes or living in the alleyway gutters.

I could say what the media do about the lifestyle of certain partners in magic circle law firms and city banks, CEOs or premier league footballers, but people considering London need to think about how many truly end up living this glamourised luxurious lifestyle relative to how many professional footballers struggle in the lower leagues barely earning enough to live independently in London, or actually have the connections to live the advertised 'only way is Chelsea' lifestyle. But it is this aspiration across Britain and especially London that keeps the middle classes and those below working so unthinkingly hard in the fantasy they might somehow find a way to join into this lifestyle.

The average middle class person in the wealthy non-aristocratic UK definition of the term (not lower middle class UK as America seems to use the term middle class differently, noticing squabbles created by this interpretation including on this forum Undecided) lifestyle is still far more 'comfortable' in Melbourne, Milan or Munich as M letter examples of world cities for middle class professionals. But yes if you are elite level upper class multi millionaire wealth then London is up there with the best alpha world cities.

But London sells the dream brilliantly and gets very hardworking professional people spending many hours away in the office (any job of decent money in London is very often signed out of the EU working time labour directive laws as UK has opt out on this EU directive). They are often exhausted and spend much of their disposable income on an invariably tired or shabby little rental property (Landlord's not tenants market due to huge undersupply issue), when they are not too tired to socialise. The tax rate of 40% for any London professional job also leaves far lower disposable income once the unglamorous items such as utilities, transport etc are taken into account.

As I say, it is a masterstroke by the 1% who you describe that actually importantly own even if not running these companies, having the middle classes working so hard to give them their lifestyle by dangling the hopes they can join them through their labour, whilst they make the very money to sustain their lifestyles. Also coming from their interests in assets from land and rental leaseholds (few London properties are actually freehold in the most exclusive areas of the city, still owned often by various aristocratic dynasties of Earls and Dukes).

As a side note, I do not see myself as some bitter Marxist, just trying to give the red pill reality as I have lived and seen it without the piles of false bullsh*t the media and establishment give disingenuously and misleadingly in order to sustain their various societal and economic ponzi schemes.


Oh and chin up everybody! Have a nice day.

I agree with everything you've said. I'm Australian and in my opinion the UK is an extremely unequal society. It's built on a Ponzi scheme - as you point out - which is its treatment of property as an investment asset rather than a place to live. It will come crashing down at some point, not anytime soon, but it will absolutely kill the economy and social mobility in the long run.

Australia has the same problem too but... at least it tries to pretend everyone is equal. America pretends everyone can become a millionaire. UK doesn't even try in the slightest. At best they are very realistic about people's prospects in life, at worst deeply cynical and socially oppressive (they put each other in boxes based on accents and upbringing).

It's very class based. The Aussie PM can be referred to as 'a mate' or a 'good bloke' or a 'shit bloke', given a pint of beer by a member of the public, but he is never seen as a class above. In the UK that would be seen as indecorous and out of place. The three more powerful political figures in the Conservative Party (Cameron, Osborne & Johnson) went to the same exclusive '12 members only' club in Oxford while London Mayoralty Candidate Goldsmith went to the same secondary school (Eton) as two of the three.

Where I came from social housing is barely one in ten people, in London it's one in four! Richest Brits are property baron aristocrats (Grosvenor, Reuben, Cadogan families). Richest Londoners are all property based capital wealth in property, not salaries. You need £75k to be able to qualify for a starter home. Or your parents can set you up. These are the two groups I know. Everyone else is battling.

London is crushing for the capitalist entrepreneurial spirit as the costs of rent and other taxes are just too high. To make money you need to be in finance, big tech or have established wealth already. Alan Sugar owned his own home at 24 years old with a setup selling TV antennas out of the back of a van. I seriously doubt he could do that in this age. Kate Moss may have may made it as a supermodel rocking the 'waif' look, now everyone looks like that, she'd battle too. Being a self-made man in London is an absolutely huge accomplishment in 2015 (how will you work 'free internships' if you don't have parents in London).

That's just how it is here.
10-18-2015 04:31 PM
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frenchcorporation Offline
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Post: #154
RE: London
(10-18-2015 08:03 AM)Que enspastic Wrote:  It's a good life but the commonality is either £60/70k+ salaries and/or parents who will set them up with property, either now in their 20s or down the line when they kick the bucket. Obviously London doesn't work for most people but for a minority of the population it is a seriously fun global alpha city where deals are made, self-images crafted and big parties thrown.

I live in london and I make more than that now, a data sheet/being pointed in the right direction on crafting better london nights out would be appreciated. I've somewhat escaped this already due to partying abroad on weekends , but it would be good to crack london properly
10-18-2015 05:57 PM
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frenchcorporation Offline
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Post: #155
RE: London
(10-17-2015 12:27 AM)RichieP Wrote:  London is all about niches and social circle. You can't just get blown around like a leaf in the breeze, otherwise you end up in that £100-for-rubbish-night zone FC posted about. You gotta be purposeful, have connections, pick the niche you want to own, where the talent you want is, and go do what it takes to get in those venues and social circles.

Agreed that it's a masterstroke of marketing spin, and if you buy it it will drain your wallet and leave you feeling disillusioned.

you should bust out a datasheet, it would be well received, there's a lot of people on here from london
10-18-2015 06:01 PM
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worldtraveler3 Offline
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Post: #156
RE: London
Problem is how would you afford the property in London, even with 60k a year before taxes it would be difficult. Unless most people want to rent for their whole lives. Assuming parents don't help.
I don't think working in a soul crushing finance job where u hardly have any social time would be a good idea.
(This post was last modified: 10-18-2015 06:26 PM by worldtraveler3.)
10-18-2015 06:07 PM
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Adrenaline Offline
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Post: #157
RE: London
So I'm curious how tough the competition in London really is? It it just the fact that there are a lot of rich people around who use their money like beta's to get into women's pants? I know England in general has a reputation for having ugly people so do you see many good looking, tall guys in London? I'm hearing contrasting reports- some stating that London is full of pasty, hideous people while others stating that the competition is through the roof, whether that means looks, status, money I'm not sure. Clarification anyone?
(This post was last modified: 01-25-2016 03:38 AM by Adrenaline.)
01-25-2016 03:37 AM
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262 Offline
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Post: #158
RE: London
^^^
While London-style daygame instructors like Krauser and Torero apparently get laid just fine in London, note that they've basically said themselves that they too travel abroad for better quality and/or quantity.
01-25-2016 09:32 AM
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Hafran Offline
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Post: #159
RE: London
(01-25-2016 03:37 AM)Adrenaline Wrote:  So I'm curious how tough the competition in London really is? It it just the fact that there are a lot of rich people around who use their money like beta's to get into women's pants? I know England in general has a reputation for having ugly people so do you see many good looking, tall guys in London? I'm hearing contrasting reports- some stating that London is full of pasty, hideous people while others stating that the competition is through the roof, whether that means looks, status, money I'm not sure. Clarification anyone?

Basically if you're a man you will have a lot of competition due to the sheer number of guys who work at good jobs, have their shit together, work out, and are good looking. I expect this to be the case in most major cities though.

I find British women absolutely hideous, but there is nothing wrong about British men looks wise. Women on average are overweight, witch-faced, most of them are fake blondes. That's just the general distribution, you will of course find a few very attractive outliers.

The great thing about London is that there is a large amount of foreign women. I just focus my time on them, and it works better for me that way.


I'll add one last thing: London is a city which has lots of different cliques and sub-cultures. So if you do not fit the successful guy stereotype and you're more of a laid-back hippie, you will find your type of girls and you will get laid. Not my thing though.
01-25-2016 03:17 PM
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RichyB187 Offline
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Post: #160
RE: London
Bored and fancy going to London on Saturday anyone know some good places to catch some foreign girls on holiday as doubt I will have much chance with locals?
07-28-2016 10:12 AM
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bumborass Offline
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Post: #161
RE: London
(07-28-2016 10:12 AM)RichyB187 Wrote:  Bored and fancy going to London on Saturday anyone know some good places to catch some foreign girls on holiday as doubt I will have much chance with locals?

day or nightgame?

for night, try Camdentown

during the day I was too busy doing tourist shit to day game so I'm not sure. I was there last September.
07-29-2016 05:43 PM
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rudebwoy Away
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Post: #162
RE: London
Oxford St

Westfield Mall - the one near White City, great talent in that place but a lot of security guards there last time I went.

Covent Garden is a nice spot to kill a few hours.

I use to live in Camden a few years back, didn't find it all that good.

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07-29-2016 06:21 PM
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Lino Offline
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Post: #163
RE: London
Was thinking about opening a new thread and found this one.

I m gonna be very active on this thread I think. Arrived in London 2 weeks ago for work ( had a contract here, should be for minimum 5 months and up to a couple of years).

So far...I hate London, I m from Paris and until now I see in London all the stuff that made me leave Paris 11 years ago:
-traffic is terrible, taking the bus to work takes almost as much time as walking!
-people are rude, in the rush hour in the tube or in a busy street, they might bump into you and never apologize
- insane cost of life, you get charged even for using a cash machine
- Being from Paris I didnt find that Berlin is a beautiful city, not suitable for a romantic trip unlike Paris
- People are incredibly money and career focused, first thing girls want to know is your job, that will be more important than you being a nice guy...(I'm guessing some guys at this stage must think I m naive but this attitude is pushed to the extreme in London). Women are career oriented, love money and arent ashamed of it.

-Last but not least, the women...Oh my god!!! The worst attitudes I have ever seen, I thought Paris was a difficult city (I have good results in Paris with good looking girls but that's because it's my city and I know exactly what girls want and how to deal with them) but London is really tough, some observations:

1- It is a women's market, they choose. I work in the city and I see good looking guys, obviously working out regularly and dressed nicely and they are with chubby vulgar girls. I am quite sure even to get these pigs the guys had to compete.

2- as a consequence of 1, all girls have bad attitudes and behave as if they are a prize and expect you to be doing anything to please them, a girl might cancel a date 1 hour before, refuse a date and openly tell you that another guy on tinder has arrived before you and she s dating him today but tomorrow maybe she can date you, she might propose you to meet up friday night but then friday afternopn tell you she can meet you only from 6 to 7 pm because she s going out with friends later, she might also ask you which place you suggest to meet up and accept to meet you only if she likes the place....and so many other things...

3- Women also dont know how to flirt, I discussed openly this topic with one of them and she agreed that most people here need to be drunk in bars/ clubs to hook up, this can happen everywhere of course but looks like here it mainly works like that. Me not being a heavy drinker and not liking clubs, I am having a hard time so far.

I m here since only 2 weeks so I'll Try to adjust my game and find out what suits me better here but it looks like a challenge, being in my mid thirties I like when things get easy with women, I dont have anything to prove to myself and prefer putting lot of energy in other activities, I just started this job and am staying on Hackney road at the moment, in east London, I'm sharing a flat for few weeks and looking for my own place. I hope when I'll have my place and will go to the gym I ll chill out a bit and my quality of life will improve.

If some guys here are down to some day game get it touch, it wouldnt hurt to know some people here Smile
(This post was last modified: 07-31-2016 07:50 AM by Lino.)
07-31-2016 07:45 AM
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Alebaster Offline
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Post: #164
RE: London
(01-25-2016 09:32 AM)262 Wrote:  ^^^
While London-style daygame instructors like Krauser and Torero apparently get laid just fine in London, note that they've basically said themselves that they too travel abroad for better quality and/or quantity.

Travelling to EE is a major red flag for a someone who calls himself "pua".

Too long to explain but basically London is great even for an average skills guy and if someone claiming to be a PUA needs to travel to soft,beta tolerant, k-select markets where he can test his "amazing" day-game skills on insecure women with poor English (who would like to meet a foreigner anyways) than he is 1) not a PUA 2) a fraud who tries to sell his staff under a premise of "being tired of western society" or all this crap.

Also note that they never publish pictures (or publish the same picture again and again) and when spotted-always seen with a reluctant bored 6 on their hands.

You really don't need any game or skills to meet women in countries like Ukraine. You just need to be reasonably presentable and foreign.

Be wise
(This post was last modified: 07-31-2016 09:30 AM by Alebaster.)
07-31-2016 08:45 AM
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Post: #165
RE: London
(07-31-2016 07:45 AM)Lino Wrote:  Was thinking about opening a new thread and found this one.

I m gonna be very active on this thread I think. Arrived in London 2 weeks ago for work ( had a contract here, should be for minimum 5 months and up to a couple of years).

So far...I hate London, I m from Paris and until now I see in London all the stuff that made me leave Paris 11 years ago:
-traffic is terrible, taking the bus to work takes almost as much time as walking!
-people are rude, in the rush hour in the tube or in a busy street, they might bump into you and never apologize
- insane cost of life, you get charged even for using a cash machine
- Being from Paris I didnt find that Berlin is a beautiful city, not suitable for a romantic trip unlike Paris
- People are incredibly money and career focused, first thing girls want to know is your job, that will be more important than you being a nice guy...(I'm guessing some guys at this stage must think I m naive but this attitude is pushed to the extreme in London). Women are career oriented, love money and arent ashamed of it.

-Last but not least, the women...Oh my god!!! The worst attitudes I have ever seen, I thought Paris was a difficult city (I have good results in Paris with good looking girls but that's because it's my city and I know exactly what girls want and how to deal with them) but London is really tough, some observations:

1- It is a women's market, they choose. I work in the city and I see good looking guys, obviously working out regularly and dressed nicely and they are with chubby vulgar girls. I am quite sure even to get these pigs the guys had to compete.

2- as a consequence of 1, all girls have bad attitudes and behave as if they are a prize and expect you to be doing anything to please them, a girl might cancel a date 1 hour before, refuse a date and openly tell you that another guy on tinder has arrived before you and she s dating him today but tomorrow maybe she can date you, she might propose you to meet up friday night but then friday afternopn tell you she can meet you only from 6 to 7 pm because she s going out with friends later, she might also ask you which place you suggest to meet up and accept to meet you only if she likes the place....and so many other things...

3- Women also dont know how to flirt, I discussed openly this topic with one of them and she agreed that most people here need to be drunk in bars/ clubs to hook up, this can happen everywhere of course but looks like here it mainly works like that. Me not being a heavy drinker and not liking clubs, I am having a hard time so far.

I m here since only 2 weeks so I'll Try to adjust my game and find out what suits me better here but it looks like a challenge, being in my mid thirties I like when things get easy with women, I dont have anything to prove to myself and prefer putting lot of energy in other activities, I just started this job and am staying on Hackney road at the moment, in east London, I'm sharing a flat for few weeks and looking for my own place. I hope when I'll have my place and will go to the gym I ll chill out a bit and my quality of life will improve.

If some guys here are down to some day game get it touch, it wouldnt hurt to know some people here Smile

You have been here only 2 weeks ago and you already make these conclusions?
London is great for the game (and I am originally from Eastern Europe).

I would stay away from tindering and happning though and make impact on social circles game and nightgame.
(This post was last modified: 07-31-2016 08:55 AM by Alebaster.)
07-31-2016 08:51 AM
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Feldeinsamkeit Offline
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Post: #166
RE: London
(07-31-2016 08:51 AM)Alebaster Wrote:  
(07-31-2016 07:45 AM)Lino Wrote:  Was thinking about opening a new thread and found this one.

I m gonna be very active on this thread I think. Arrived in London 2 weeks ago for work ( had a contract here, should be for minimum 5 months and up to a couple of years).

So far...I hate London, I m from Paris and until now I see in London all the stuff that made me leave Paris 11 years ago:
-traffic is terrible, taking the bus to work takes almost as much time as walking!
-people are rude, in the rush hour in the tube or in a busy street, they might bump into you and never apologize
- insane cost of life, you get charged even for using a cash machine
- Being from Paris I didnt find that Berlin is a beautiful city, not suitable for a romantic trip unlike Paris
- People are incredibly money and career focused, first thing girls want to know is your job, that will be more important than you being a nice guy...(I'm guessing some guys at this stage must think I m naive but this attitude is pushed to the extreme in London). Women are career oriented, love money and arent ashamed of it.

-Last but not least, the women...Oh my god!!! The worst attitudes I have ever seen, I thought Paris was a difficult city (I have good results in Paris with good looking girls but that's because it's my city and I know exactly what girls want and how to deal with them) but London is really tough, some observations:

1- It is a women's market, they choose. I work in the city and I see good looking guys, obviously working out regularly and dressed nicely and they are with chubby vulgar girls. I am quite sure even to get these pigs the guys had to compete.

2- as a consequence of 1, all girls have bad attitudes and behave as if they are a prize and expect you to be doing anything to please them, a girl might cancel a date 1 hour before, refuse a date and openly tell you that another guy on tinder has arrived before you and she s dating him today but tomorrow maybe she can date you, she might propose you to meet up friday night but then friday afternopn tell you she can meet you only from 6 to 7 pm because she s going out with friends later, she might also ask you which place you suggest to meet up and accept to meet you only if she likes the place....and so many other things...

3- Women also dont know how to flirt, I discussed openly this topic with one of them and she agreed that most people here need to be drunk in bars/ clubs to hook up, this can happen everywhere of course but looks like here it mainly works like that. Me not being a heavy drinker and not liking clubs, I am having a hard time so far.

I m here since only 2 weeks so I'll Try to adjust my game and find out what suits me better here but it looks like a challenge, being in my mid thirties I like when things get easy with women, I dont have anything to prove to myself and prefer putting lot of energy in other activities, I just started this job and am staying on Hackney road at the moment, in east London, I'm sharing a flat for few weeks and looking for my own place. I hope when I'll have my place and will go to the gym I ll chill out a bit and my quality of life will improve.

If some guys here are down to some day game get it touch, it wouldnt hurt to know some people here Smile

You have been here only 2 weeks ago and you already make these conclusions?
London is great for the game (and I am originally from Eastern Europe).

I would stay away from tindering and happning though and make impact on social circles game and nightgame.

So which nationality of girls are you doing well with in London, then? British ones? Or girls who are also from eastern Europe or elsewhere?
07-31-2016 09:02 AM
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Alebaster Offline
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Post: #167
RE: London
(07-31-2016 09:02 AM)Feldeinsamkeit Wrote:  
(07-31-2016 08:51 AM)Alebaster Wrote:  
(07-31-2016 07:45 AM)Lino Wrote:  Was thinking about opening a new thread and found this one.

I m gonna be very active on this thread I think. Arrived in London 2 weeks ago for work ( had a contract here, should be for minimum 5 months and up to a couple of years).

So far...I hate London, I m from Paris and until now I see in London all the stuff that made me leave Paris 11 years ago:
-traffic is terrible, taking the bus to work takes almost as much time as walking!
-people are rude, in the rush hour in the tube or in a busy street, they might bump into you and never apologize
- insane cost of life, you get charged even for using a cash machine
- Being from Paris I didnt find that Berlin is a beautiful city, not suitable for a romantic trip unlike Paris
- People are incredibly money and career focused, first thing girls want to know is your job, that will be more important than you being a nice guy...(I'm guessing some guys at this stage must think I m naive but this attitude is pushed to the extreme in London). Women are career oriented, love money and arent ashamed of it.

-Last but not least, the women...Oh my god!!! The worst attitudes I have ever seen, I thought Paris was a difficult city (I have good results in Paris with good looking girls but that's because it's my city and I know exactly what girls want and how to deal with them) but London is really tough, some observations:

1- It is a women's market, they choose. I work in the city and I see good looking guys, obviously working out regularly and dressed nicely and they are with chubby vulgar girls. I am quite sure even to get these pigs the guys had to compete.

2- as a consequence of 1, all girls have bad attitudes and behave as if they are a prize and expect you to be doing anything to please them, a girl might cancel a date 1 hour before, refuse a date and openly tell you that another guy on tinder has arrived before you and she s dating him today but tomorrow maybe she can date you, she might propose you to meet up friday night but then friday afternopn tell you she can meet you only from 6 to 7 pm because she s going out with friends later, she might also ask you which place you suggest to meet up and accept to meet you only if she likes the place....and so many other things...

3- Women also dont know how to flirt, I discussed openly this topic with one of them and she agreed that most people here need to be drunk in bars/ clubs to hook up, this can happen everywhere of course but looks like here it mainly works like that. Me not being a heavy drinker and not liking clubs, I am having a hard time so far.

I m here since only 2 weeks so I'll Try to adjust my game and find out what suits me better here but it looks like a challenge, being in my mid thirties I like when things get easy with women, I dont have anything to prove to myself and prefer putting lot of energy in other activities, I just started this job and am staying on Hackney road at the moment, in east London, I'm sharing a flat for few weeks and looking for my own place. I hope when I'll have my place and will go to the gym I ll chill out a bit and my quality of life will improve.

If some guys here are down to some day game get it touch, it wouldnt hurt to know some people here Smile

You have been here only 2 weeks ago and you already make these conclusions?
London is great for the game (and I am originally from Eastern Europe).

I would stay away from tindering and happning though and make impact on social circles game and nightgame.

So which nationality of girls are you doing well with in London, then? British ones? Or girls who are also from eastern Europe or elsewhere?

Anything really.At the moment: italian,spanish (I speak the language) and south african. I have a british plate, who comes,soft nexts me and goes,than returns again and again for the last two years now.I must admit though that british Hbs are not easy for me as I have an accent, and they tend to rotate in their social circles consisting mostly of brits.

I am not specifically interested in fsu women,and with regards to the rct of CE and EE I randomly come across some polish etc...but being honest most of the time I have no patience for them (besides I dont find polish women attractive).I had couple of short things with russian girls in the past but stoped tapping in that market.

If you like polish women than there are some 200k poles living in London,larger than some cities in Poland. As a mate of mine said (after receiving a negative answer on whether I have ever dated a polish woman): "every man in London at some point of his life will have dated a Polish woman" Big Grin
(This post was last modified: 07-31-2016 09:27 AM by Alebaster.)
07-31-2016 09:17 AM
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Switchez Offline
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Post: #168
RE: London
Having lived in London, I agree with Lino, it's pretty bad, especially without pre-established social circles over years of living there.

Alebaster, since you claim London is a great place to game, which place are you comparing to? i.e which place have you been to that has been worse?
07-31-2016 09:59 AM
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Alebaster Offline
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Post: #169
RE: London
(07-31-2016 09:59 AM)Switchez Wrote:  Having lived in London, I agree with Lino, it's pretty bad, especially without pre-established social circles over years of living there.

Alebaster, since you claim London is a great place to game, which place are you comparing to? i.e which place have you been to that has been worse?

Western Europe?
Amsterdam or anywhere in Holland was certainly worth.Germany is crap too.
Barcelona was a notch better.

I basically cant complain in London as I generally achieve what I want at the moment both qua quality or number.

Mind that I speak several languages and this helps me to enlarge my social circle and adds many skills to night game or daygame (huge remedy for any anxiety). English cant do that.
(This post was last modified: 07-31-2016 10:06 AM by Alebaster.)
07-31-2016 10:02 AM
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Agreddor Offline
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Post: #170
RE: London
(10-18-2015 04:16 PM)apolis Wrote:  Cities like London shouldn't be discussed at all on this forum. It's exactly what we all trying to avoid, traveling to hell holes in search of the pure essence.

Highfive
07-31-2016 10:10 AM
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Constitution45 Offline
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Post: #171
RE: London
I have given my two cents on this topic and I can do so again. I grew up in London and have moved back here for career purposes.

The difficulties which men face here in terms of dating and sexual market place are due to logistics, finances and culture.

Logistics are a major problem, even though the city is truly one of those 21st century metropolises, it has a very poor transport system. This kind of ties into the second point I am going to make about finances, the economic situation here, prevents a lot of men from being men. Even junior investment bankers flat share or rely on public transport, let alone the average graduate in his 20s who is making only £25k a year. Night game goes out of the window when you are proposing to your girl that we need to ride on a disgusting night buses because the tube closes at 1am and buying a taxi will mean you can't pay for that week's groceries.

If your selling point is by being a self made man with a decent wage, you aren't going to appeal to many women. Simply because so many people are making that certain amount of money. Working class girls will be flocking towards the drug dealers who are making solid cash each week. Where as the middle class girls despite working as baristas or low paid HR assistants, will be from backgrounds and wealthy areas in the home counties. It is just an expected norm, there is nothing really new to be offered there. The English tax system means that if you earn over £43K roughly a year, you will be taxed for 45%. Which is a ridiculous high amount. This again further erodes away the incentive to becoming that alpha provider which now passes onto the last point.

Culture, London is heavily reliant on the financial industry, HR is king and social justice picketing is seen treated with religious fervour. Despite the Evening Standard, a free newspaper distributed at every train station during weekdays being owned by machiavellian Russian oligarchs. It will be full of feminist rhetoric as well as articles from intellectuals preaching diversity and transgender inclusion. People don't come to London to start families, people come here to make money, be cool and to enhance career prospects. It's the reason why Londoners have a reputation for being cold or distant by people who live in the rest of the U.K.

Truth is I wouldn't have moved back here but I have a job which I enjoy and its a job that can open up exciting opportunities for me in the long run, potentially overseas. I have lived elsewhere, so I am fully aware of what my sexual market value is and I don't take any of it personal in London. I think that needs to be understood and in turn it takes the edge off it. This also helps when getting girls in the U.K, because they can sense that you have seen better and have higher standards.

There is no real rhyme and reason to the London dating market. Broke guys here surprisingly do very well, where as young men who make 60K a year seem to struggle. On top of this, if you behave masculine and have some 'game' whatever that means nowadays, you will have one up over your competition. Because a large chunk of the male population in London are very feminine and spend most of their days moping and wallowing in self pity.

Location is important, because large parts of London are semi ghettos. You can't really day game because girls will think that you are trying to rob or rape them. Online game is very difficult because those feminine men are using it, and night game is difficult and expensive because men in the U.K behave like dogs chasing their own tails when it comes to pulling girls. Its better to go to the Northern cities for night game.

Saying that, relatively quiet bars and pubs in Central London, Brixton, Islington, Shoreditch are decent places. However I would advise meeting girls as being the secondary reason for going out, with the first one being, having fun with your friends. Also only approach the attractive looking girls, the unattractive ones will most likely be feminists and will just be mean to you. This is from personal experience.

Alternatively I suggest taking mini vacations to the rest of Europe or the East. All it takes is an hour flight to a small Southern city in France to keep you in check. Also being from London gives you an immense amount of value if you are traveling elsewhere in the
07-31-2016 11:13 AM
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apolis Offline
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Post: #172
RE: London
Last year I banged 15 girls in London through social circle and online game. This year is not going good at all. Until now, I have banged 3 girls (French, Russian, Tasmanian), all ONS, but I have lost my social circles and online game totally sucks. Stay away from Eastern European, as they are manipulators and time wasters, if you are looking to bang. STAY AWAY from POLISH WOMEN GENERALLY. Online game used to be good in 2015, but now is a black hole. Social circles are the key in London, you don't need to be a banker, just be in the right time at the right place.

PM if you wanna meet up!
(This post was last modified: 07-31-2016 11:54 AM by apolis.)
07-31-2016 11:30 AM
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Lino Offline
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Post: #173
RE: London
(07-31-2016 11:13 AM)Constitution45 Wrote:  Location is important, because large parts of London are semi ghettos. You can't really day game because girls will think that you are trying to rob or rape them. Online game is very difficult because those feminine men are using it, and night game is difficult and expensive because men in the U.K behave like dogs chasing their own tails when it comes to pulling girls. Its better to go to the Northern cities for night game.

Even though I m here since only 2 weeks I fully agree with all your post, especially the part I quoted. For a guy freshly arrived in London with 0 social circle, living in a nice neighborhood will be a key factor to get a sexual life.

Guys also seem to be super thirsty and needy, in 2 weeks I had already told many online girls to fuck off because they were mean/agressive/trying to treat me like a dog, I m guessing it's because other men accept that.

Day game was also terrible so far, members above said it's a goldmine, ok...well today I realized I m not willing anymore to waste hours walking in busy streets just to chase pussy, having to deal with a bitch who barely answers or ignores you and accepting the bitch shield just because she has a nice butt isn't something I wanna do anymore, especially after having lived in Sweden and travelled to Brazil...
(This post was last modified: 07-31-2016 05:04 PM by Lino.)
07-31-2016 05:02 PM
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apolis Offline
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Post: #174
RE: London
Daygame is good for tourists or short term visitors in places like Tower of London or Southbank. However, you need a wing, as tourists are not alone. Online girls have received so many 'Netflix and chill' offers that now run awful shit tests. Two weeks in London or even two years is nothing, as this city has great variety and you need time to understand what's going on and what to do. One thing is for sure; after London, gaming anywhere else will be too damn easy.
(This post was last modified: 08-01-2016 02:38 AM by apolis.)
08-01-2016 02:14 AM
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BelyyTigr Offline
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Post: #175
RE: London
(10-18-2015 12:45 PM)MatineeMan Wrote:  I also still know a few of the North London set in Hampstead and Highgate, but without their parents help there is no way the kids you describe wanting a good lifestyle would have moved out independently until at a reasonably high level in a six figure profession.

They also told me that these meagre salaries below £100k are sustainable for the dandy lifestyle they lead, but it is far more often the case of a collective family and even peer front to what is often true wealth hidden deeply in assets, 'charities' and foundations aka 'so and so trust funds', or deep family wealth hidden in tax havens abroad and domestically in many acres of land and property. So believe me it is the parents and family relations wealth helping in setting them up not their salary. They often like to pretend it is their own hardwork that gives them these huge deposits for mortgages on 7 figure properties while they have also been spending partying and on rents. If you grill them on this though they can soon turn defensive and fall out with you. This demonstrates a strong reason why talk of wealth and how much money you earn is considered so vulgar, ill mannered and rude in Uk society. It is because of what this taboo would expose to the higher asset classes that is considered to be 'improper' and almost taboo to discuss personal wealth, even sometimes amongst friends.

I don't doubt your claims here about these people as true, but think of how many who consider moving to London as adults on this forum will be living those kind of lifestyles. I also mixed with some of these people you describe at university, with the girls commonly found in Tatler and Countrylife, although much of this has probably moved online now. I was quite rare because of the UK university rankings often correlating to student wealth especially with elite ranking universities downwards, this is due to quality of education relating to results more than sheer ability. It is common for private schools to get an average student score of AAB and above whereas a comprehensive sixth form college kid with poor resources and big class sizes has to be outstanding or extremely hardworking to get these results, in the eighties anyway. Forgive me for the lack of modesty.

Who knows, some people here may join that 1%, personally I find interacting with them is often shallow, vacuous and they are unbelievably sheltered about 'real life' outside West London, Val d'Isere and St. Tropez.

Rags to riches like Alan Sugar and Kate Moss are well known because they are so unlike the Martha Lane Fox and Carla Delevinge background, who while they probably showed initiative and ambition could easily walk into prominent positions in their industries through connections, while they seemingly unironically moan about male privilege and inequality.

Although affordability is part of it I just don't want it selling to disappointed dreaming people with misconceptions about London that they will live like this without the wealth, career portfolio or connections when moving to London, like New York and other alpha world cities. For every man living his dream in London there are many more under the bridge in cardboard boxes or living in the alleyway gutters.

I could say what the media do about the lifestyle of certain partners in magic circle law firms and city banks, CEOs or premier league footballers, but people considering London need to think about how many truly end up living this glamourised luxurious lifestyle relative to how many professional footballers struggle in the lower leagues barely earning enough to live independently in London, or actually have the connections to live the advertised 'only way is Chelsea' lifestyle. But it is this aspiration across Britain and especially London that keeps the middle classes and those below working so unthinkingly hard in the fantasy they might somehow find a way to join into this lifestyle.

The average middle class person in the wealthy non-aristocratic UK definition of the term (not lower middle class UK as America seems to use the term middle class differently, noticing squabbles created by this interpretation including on this forum Undecided) lifestyle is still far more 'comfortable' in Melbourne, Milan or Munich as M letter examples of world cities for middle class professionals. But yes if you are elite level upper class multi millionaire wealth then London is up there with the best alpha world cities.

But London sells the dream brilliantly and gets very hardworking professional people spending many hours away in the office (any job of decent money in London is very often signed out of the EU working time labour directive laws as UK has opt out on this EU directive). They are often exhausted and spend much of their disposable income on an invariably tired or shabby little rental property (Landlord's not tenants market due to huge undersupply issue), when they are not too tired to socialise. The tax rate of 40% for any London professional job also leaves far lower disposable income once the unglamorous items such as utilities, transport etc are taken into account.

As I say, it is a masterstroke by the 1% who you describe that actually importantly own even if not running these companies, having the middle classes working so hard to give them their lifestyle by dangling the hopes they can join them through their labour, whilst they make the very money to sustain their lifestyles. Also coming from their interests in assets from land and rental leaseholds (few London properties are actually freehold in the most exclusive areas of the city, still owned often by various aristocratic dynasties of Earls and Dukes).

As a side note, I do not see myself as some bitter Marxist, just trying to give the red pill reality as I have lived and seen it without the piles of false bullsh*t the media and establishment give disingenuously and misleadingly in order to sustain their various societal and economic ponzi schemes.


Oh and chin up everybody! Have a nice day.

This is an excellent post. To me, certainly for England, and numerous other countries an understanding of the class DIS-structure is as important as anything about feminazi women and the like. I cannot believe that in 2016, the average Brit tolerates being comprehensively buttraped by his "lords and masters" with heriditary wealth and success via the old school tie. Many countries had revolutions over far less.

Anyway, how to assess London. Well I've lived there at different times, both poor/starting out and later on when I'd had some career success.

Its good sides. Lots of things to do. If you have particular hobbies and stuff. Lots of different nationalities and communities. Well paid work may or may not be available to you. Some stunning women of different nationalities, and some utter utter pigs too. Its a centre of the World, not just England.

Downside? Obscenely expensive for many. Wages after tax and overheads are pretty poor for many.
If you haven't got cash, you are shit to many groups. Local women are less attractive than many countries, on avg. Ldon isn't overly friendly altho you may find friends easily or with difficulty. Its in a terrible grip of political correctness. Getting as bad as Sweden or some of the USA. Many will find the vast numbers of immigrants unsettling. Esp if you want to associate with white, W Europeans/Brits and not Muslims, Africans etc.

I think you really need your shit together to succeed. Get it wrong and you'll potentially have a miserable life of nightclubs with grim women in. You need to build your social circle but the Net is an excellent way to find people with hobbies u may have.

If you are in the know there are places you can pull - dependent on time. But they'll tend to be run of the mill women. If you want better quality, you need to work on it. For every male thats looking, there is a female too. But will she meet your redpiller requirements/desires? Perhaps not. I prefer more exclusive clubs or bars. Its like America with VIP this and exclusive that. Yes there are some wonderful Slavic/Scandinavian supermodel types and cute young Polish babes, but remember, there is competition. All those 20 something girls have admirers in their 20s, 30s, 40s and older. Being a multimillionaire in London isn't that uncommon in the flashier bars and clubs. And as said, much of this is pure trust fund stuff/the old school tie of Eton etc. So people have to be realistic. A £50k salary in Ldon is almost "poor" in some people's eyes.

Personally, I largely hated London until I'd made a career success. Infact I was glad I left.
Maybe I'll move back there, now things are different for me.
08-01-2016 10:15 AM
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