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YoungBlade's HEMA Datasheet
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Dalaran1991 Online
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Post: #76
RE: YoungBlade's HEMA Datasheet
(10-06-2017 06:01 AM)YoungBlade Wrote:  
(10-06-2017 03:34 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  On techniques: How do your coach teach you? The usual "look at the old manuals, reconstruct the techniques, then spar"?

Yes, unfortunately, because we are associated with a university, you cannot spar until a semester of training.

For those of us who've done this before though, we have set up sessions outside of club meetings to spar to try out what works and what doesn't. Occasionally with steel, but we don't have all the necessary gear.

I love your master's approach though. As my club grows, I will look into setting up something like this.

While I do love it I do think this make it a higher entry barrier for noobs. It's not a problem at our club because people are advised to take general swordmanship before doing longsword.

The reason is simple: no fucking way you can do it this way without full protection. So that means 1600N fencing mask, outer mask cover, padded coif. And that's only for the head. For body it's padded fencing vest, arm and elbow protection, plastic cuirass, gorget, etc.

I empty half my month's pay for the equipment, but boy am I glad I have it. Metal sparring is a fucking beast.

Quote:Good on you for being aggressive, but temper it a bit or those colossi you fear will simply beat you down after you tire. Laugh

Frankly this kind of Battle-of-nations assault is kinda unrealistic. Individual combat lasts anywhere between 1-3 min with most of the time spent waiting and watching the other guy. Agression is the key to win, unless you are a noob then that just got you skewered.

It's much more so with the bigger guys because if you are defensive then they will simply use superior reach and force to destroy you. Mobility and dictating the flow of combat is the key.

Sometimes I'm glad Im a small guy, that forces me to have better techniques.

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10-06-2017 07:41 AM
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YoungBlade
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Post: #77
RE: YoungBlade's HEMA Datasheet
(10-06-2017 07:41 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  It's much more so with the bigger guys because if you are defensive then they will simply use superior reach and force to destroy you. Mobility and dictating the flow of combat is the key.

Sometimes I'm glad Im a small guy, that forces me to have better techniques.

Absolutely. The best fencer in our club is a bit shorter than me, and much leaner, but he is fast and has superb technique.

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Havamal 77

Cows die,
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you will die the same way.
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(This post was last modified: 10-06-2017 07:45 AM by YoungBlade.)
10-06-2017 07:45 AM
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sterling_archer Offline
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Post: #78
RE: YoungBlade's HEMA Datasheet
Is HEMA equipment one time investment?
10-06-2017 07:46 AM
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Post: #79
RE: YoungBlade's HEMA Datasheet
(10-06-2017 07:46 AM)sterling_archer Wrote:  Is HEMA equipment one time investment?

If you take care of it, yes.

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Havamal 77

Cows die,
family die,
you will die the same way.
I know only one thing
that never dies:
the reputation of the one who's died.
10-06-2017 07:47 AM
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Post: #80
RE: YoungBlade's HEMA Datasheet
Obviously. When I get into it (move to Zagreb or club is founded in my city) I plan to buy quality protection and take care of it. What is the point of buying pieces every now and then.
I believe same thing is for nylon swords and federschwerts am I right? Do you guys have your own or you borrow?
10-06-2017 07:55 AM
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YoungBlade Away
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Post: #81
RE: YoungBlade's HEMA Datasheet
(10-06-2017 07:55 AM)sterling_archer Wrote:  Obviously. When I get into it (move to Zagreb or club is founded in my city) I plan to buy quality protection and take care of it. What is the point of buying pieces every now and then.
I believe same thing is for nylon swords and federschwerts am I right? Do you guys have your own or you borrow?

As I said, I use club swords. Steel federschwerts last longer than the nylons, but the girl veteran in our club has a nylon that has lasted forever.

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Havamal 77

Cows die,
family die,
you will die the same way.
I know only one thing
that never dies:
the reputation of the one who's died.
10-06-2017 07:59 AM
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Dalaran1991 Online
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Post: #82
RE: YoungBlade's HEMA Datasheet
Eventually if you are staying in this hobby you will learn, by necessity and osmosis, a little bit of craftmanship and jury-rigging.

Plates on armor will come lose, rings from maille will come undone, your mask get deformed and need to be hammered out, gambeson will have tear all over it.

Most of the senior guys in our clubs has customize all of their equipment, adding in extra bits and pieces here and there. Not only does it makes you look cooler, it's also much more fun and MUCH less costly than buying stuffs.

A padded coif for example, is just some piece of heavy cotton stuffed with padding. Yet here in Europe it costs 45€ euro! Most guys here simply make there own from their material lying around.

Other common but very effective modification is simply taking your padded kitchen mitten, resew and reshape it, and add plastic/nylon plates on top to make awesome sparring mitten, instead of spending 150€!!!! Same thing with attaching padding on your gambeson as you progress.

Here's a tutorial for making a plate gauntlet with very basic metal working tools and skills.





When I head back to Vietnam I'll simply bring the specs to a blacksmith and have him forge everything I need. Considering the dirt cheap labor cost there you could have a full plate armor reproduction/combat quality for under 500$.

Gotta love globalism Laugh

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(This post was last modified: 10-06-2017 08:30 AM by Dalaran1991.)
10-06-2017 08:30 AM
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Post: #83
RE: YoungBlade's HEMA Datasheet
Regarding armor. I had planned to make parts of plate armor this year but more important things came up. I found the material and armor would not be sturdy but not fully functional as I would not heat treat it.
10-06-2017 08:47 AM
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Post: #84
RE: YoungBlade's HEMA Datasheet
Something else, if anyone wants to see good source for making armor for himself, look here: http://www.armourarchive.org/patterns/
I made a crusader helmet couple of years ago following one of the patterns and I intend to use it for the future armor projects.
10-06-2017 09:57 AM
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Dalaran1991
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Post: #85
RE: YoungBlade's HEMA Datasheet
(10-06-2017 09:57 AM)sterling_archer Wrote:  Something else, if anyone wants to see good source for making armor for himself, look here: http://www.armourarchive.org/patterns/
I made a crusader helmet couple of years ago following one of the patterns and I intend to use it for the future armor projects.

That helmet they have featured is absolutely gorgeous I would totally buy.

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10-06-2017 10:12 AM
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Post: #86
RE: YoungBlade's HEMA Datasheet
Sugarloaf is one of my favorite types of helmets, together with Great Helm. If you open one of the designs, you can notice that its not really that difficult to make. You could even use cardboard and see how it looks like in real life. Next step would be sheet of steel thin enough it can be shaped cold. Third step is heavy duty steel (2 mm).

This is the tool I used to connect all the plates. Its basically a modern version of rivets used in medieval times, although they are deformed cold, by force.
(This post was last modified: 10-06-2017 10:24 AM by sterling_archer.)
10-06-2017 10:23 AM
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YoungBlade Away
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Post: #87
RE: YoungBlade's HEMA Datasheet
Sparred today, all longsword. Went up against the most technical fencer, something felt off. Was not doing as well.

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Havamal 77

Cows die,
family die,
you will die the same way.
I know only one thing
that never dies:
the reputation of the one who's died.
10-06-2017 01:13 PM
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Post: #88
RE: YoungBlade's HEMA Datasheet
I know that we all appreciate proper sword. Look up this man, no single word in his videos, his work speaks for itself. This is quite literally, sword porn.







10-07-2017 06:12 AM
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Post: #89
RE: YoungBlade's HEMA Datasheet
Sparred again last night, felt much better about it. Fewer outright losses, more wins and double kills. Actually managed a win with arming sword and Viking shield against a longsword. I’ve got to do more arm training though, as Viking shield gets heavy after a couple rounds.

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Havamal 77

Cows die,
family die,
you will die the same way.
I know only one thing
that never dies:
the reputation of the one who's died.
10-12-2017 05:43 AM
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Post: #90
RE: YoungBlade's HEMA Datasheet
Why do you use Viking type of shield in your club? Do you have also usage of other types of shields?
10-12-2017 06:08 AM
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Post: #91
RE: YoungBlade's HEMA Datasheet
(10-12-2017 06:08 AM)sterling_archer Wrote:  Why do you use Viking type of shield in your club? Do you have also usage of other types of shields?

My buddy made it after this year's tournament. I had bought a short viking axe (really more of a stylized hatchet) and he had bought a long one, so he made a shield to go with it. We like to do mixed weapons on occasion.

YoungBlade's HEMA Datasheet
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Havamal 77

Cows die,
family die,
you will die the same way.
I know only one thing
that never dies:
the reputation of the one who's died.
10-12-2017 06:47 AM
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Dalaran1991 Online
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Post: #92
RE: YoungBlade's HEMA Datasheet
The more I spar, the more I feel like it depends entirely on your state of mind.

There are days when I can stand against veteran fencers both bigger and faster than me, and there are days when I can barely hold my own against a girl. Though it's more of a man-girl with hugh freaking thighs and lots of extra testoterones though.

No wonder why morale was such a big thing back in the days.

The trick with shields is to keep it slightly close to yourself and not extending it too far unless you are counter-blocking an attack. Also the vets I know let their shield drop most of the time. Part of it is to conserve stamina, the other part is to invite an attack. Either way it's effective use of stamina.

I also dont think much of a shield as a defense. It's used to cover your opening when you are making an attack. Else it gets tiring moving your shield all over the place to block.

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10-12-2017 07:47 AM
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Post: #93
RE: YoungBlade's HEMA Datasheet
(10-12-2017 07:47 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  I also dont think much of a shield as a defense. It's used to cover your opening when you are making an attack. Else it gets tiring moving your shield all over the place to block.

That is exactly the reason they don't function properly in most games or movies. Just see when game character attacks and then animation of attack removes shield to the side in order to make slash or stab. You can observe same thing when character in a movie does attack.
10-12-2017 08:15 AM
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RE: YoungBlade's HEMA Datasheet
Yeah, the only shield use that is portrayed somewhat correctly are Roman shields. In most documentaries they are depicted as a wall the legionary hide behind while stabbing underhand or overhead with their gladius.

However I can understand that movie fight scenes suck for a reason. They aren’t making movies for people like you and me. They are making movies for families, teen, college students, Cucklifornians etc. Most of them can’t even tell the right end of the sword.

So Hollywood fight scene focus a lot on banging swords against each other, performing fancy moves, and especially making sure that the action is OBSERVABLE. This is the main difference.

Most real fights are over in a min or two, and the actions are way too fast. During competition its common to have multiple judges and several judge assistant because otherwise there’s no way to confirm if the attack hit, and in what sequence. Shit, most of the time when I’m called to judge I just absent because the hits are so damn quicks I cant even see it.

Nobody would pay to watch something they can’t see nor understand. So that’s why even historical titles like Vikings are full of action scene with exaggerated blows, dual wielding weapons (the fuck?), heads being lopped off. In contrast real battles are bloody stalemates and sometimes the winners don’t even know they have won. That shit wont sell.

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10-12-2017 08:46 AM
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RE: YoungBlade's HEMA Datasheet
^ Accurate!

Though I can highly recommend dual wielding, only after getting used to sword and buckler though. A saber or rapier and a dagger is a great combination.

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Havamal 77

Cows die,
family die,
you will die the same way.
I know only one thing
that never dies:
the reputation of the one who's died.
10-12-2017 09:36 AM
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Post: #96
RE: YoungBlade's HEMA Datasheet
Funny thing regarding dual wielding. Dual wielding is actually common! How so? Well, when you got shield in one hand and weapon in other, you are dual wielding. Although in recent times dual wielding has become "popular" because of movies. Two swords were REALLY UNCOMMON. There are supposed some Italian schools that thought it, but its application in battle is not suitable. Always better to have full control of one two handed sword or one handed sword/spear/axe and shield/buckler.
10-12-2017 09:51 AM
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Post: #97
RE: YoungBlade's HEMA Datasheet
Sparred again today. Got stabbed in the balls.

I'm buying a cup.

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Havamal 77

Cows die,
family die,
you will die the same way.
I know only one thing
that never dies:
the reputation of the one who's died.
10-12-2017 11:52 AM
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Post: #98
RE: YoungBlade's HEMA Datasheet
YoungBlade used to be adventurer. Then he got stabbed in the balls.
10-12-2017 12:26 PM
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Post: #99
RE: YoungBlade's HEMA Datasheet
Dalaran1991

Followed your advice in regards to shield. Massive improvement. Letting my shield down and bringing it up for defense and counterattacks proved FAR more efficient.

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Havamal 77

Cows die,
family die,
you will die the same way.
I know only one thing
that never dies:
the reputation of the one who's died.
10-12-2017 12:32 PM
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Dalaran1991 Online
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Post: #100
RE: YoungBlade's HEMA Datasheet
YoungBlade: glad you could use the advice. Wait till you are doing Roman shield and you will see that conserving stamina is the difference between life and death Wink

You are like me, eh? Don't fancy those clanky two handed weapons Wink TBH I think sword and shield is the coolest and most classic image of a warrior. However wielding a big ass longsword just got a badass factor in it.

Regarding dual wielding: I'm assuming we are talking about battle use. Civilian use is a WHOLE different story. Sword and main gauche is the go to combination of the day, because of how practical it is.

In renaissance dueling using two sword/rapier is hugely advantage. If you dont believe me, grab a sword/dagger/shield and try going against a guy with matched rapier/sabre. Some Italian schools teach it to their very advanced students. Even in kenjutsu my school prefer 2 katanas vs 1 katana/wakizashi. The reach advantage is HUGE.

One of the reasons dual wielding matching swords weren't common is, usually if you are fighting a challenge, the challenged pick the weapon. Most pick sword/dagger/buckler. If, however, you challenge a guy who is good enough to pick matched sword you definitely challenged the wrong motherfucker.... Or Fiori himself Big Grin

In a battle though dual wielding is ridiculous, in that the amount of protection is significantly reduced. There was one guy doing it the other day in mock battle and he is usually the first one to go down. In a battle you never fight just one guy. There's that guy to the right and to the left. And since our left side is our blind side you want something big protecting it.

Also, shieldwall. Shieldwall is fucking awesome. AND it protect against arrow.

The only people who did use 2 hand-weapons were some Viking berserker. Usually its one axe and one sword. The axe is used to hook the enemy's shield away while the sword go inside the guard. Life expectancy for these people however are extremely short though....

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10-12-2017 06:27 PM
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