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Catalans declare independence from Spain
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The Beast1 Offline
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Post: #76
RE: Catalans declare independence from Spain
(10-27-2017 04:18 PM)Icarus Wrote:  
(10-27-2017 04:13 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  Then why are you even posting here?

Why are you? My ancestors lived in Hispania for tens of millennia. Did yours?

My ancestors were in America busy humiliating your people and taking your empire in 1898.
(This post was last modified: 10-27-2017 05:21 PM by The Beast1.)
10-27-2017 04:59 PM
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Post: #77
RE: Catalans declare independence from Spain
(10-27-2017 04:58 PM)911 Wrote:  Most of the landmarks in Barcelona are modern, not the case in other large Spanish cities.

Probably because it was Castilla who colonized the Americas (at least during the Habsburg period).

Catalunya belonged to the Crown of Aragon and, thus, Catalans did not have the same rights as the Castillians with regards to trade with the Americas. Catalunya's sphere of influence was the Mediterranean Sea.

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10-27-2017 05:06 PM
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Icarus Offline
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Post: #78
RE: Catalans declare independence from Spain
(10-27-2017 04:59 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  My ancestors were in America busy humiliating your people and taking your empire in 1898.

I am not Spanish, Einstein. Try again.

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10-27-2017 05:07 PM
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Post: #79
RE: Catalans declare independence from Spain
(10-27-2017 04:56 PM)Icarus Wrote:  
(10-27-2017 04:51 PM)Volk Wrote:  Than why the hell would they secede from Spain just for, according to their project, join up in the same area with a different project?

Why did the County of Portugal secede from the Kingdom of Leon in 1128 if it would still be under the Pope's rule?

The context and the details are so different that it's easier to pick up the similarities than the differences. But bringing it to present times, I don't mind if Catalans decide their own destiny, is just that I don't understand the ulterior motives of the people pushing the movement and I usually don't trust that at all. I always see it as a bad sign, specially when the EU has got their greasy fingers somewhere there.
10-27-2017 05:19 PM
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Post: #80
RE: Catalans declare independence from Spain
Barcelona is an extremely popular Erasmus destination, for obvious reasons.

If this crisis continues, will the EU even fund Erasmus students in Barcelona during the Spring semester?

How can one profit from that? Where will the BCN-bound Erasmus chicks go to?

"The great secret of happiness in love is to be glad that the other fellow married her." – H.L. Mencken
(This post was last modified: 10-27-2017 05:25 PM by Icarus.)
10-27-2017 05:24 PM
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Post: #81
RE: Catalans declare independence from Spain
(10-27-2017 05:24 PM)Icarus Wrote:  Barcelona is an extremely popular Erasmus destination, for obvious reasons.

If this crisis continues, will the EU even fund Erasmus students in Barcelona during the Spring semester?

How can one profit from that? Where will the BCN-bound Erasmus chicks go to?

Can we cherry pick? If so I say the US

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10-27-2017 05:32 PM
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Icarus Offline
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Post: #82
RE: Catalans declare independence from Spain
(10-27-2017 05:32 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  Can we cherry pick? If so I say the US

Perhaps the Germans and the Scandinavians can afford it.

What about the Polish chicks, for instance? The EU pays 400 EUR per month, I believe. Clearly not enough to pay tuition + rent + health insurance at an American college.

"The great secret of happiness in love is to be glad that the other fellow married her." – H.L. Mencken
(This post was last modified: 10-27-2017 05:36 PM by Icarus.)
10-27-2017 05:36 PM
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Post: #83
RE: Catalans declare independence from Spain
(10-27-2017 04:58 PM)911 Wrote:  Catalonia/Barcelona benefited from Spanish economic policies that favored its development as a national industrial center. Barcelona is today a close second to Madrid, but at no point in the history of Spain has it been as prominent. That was my point. Most of the landmarks in Barcelona are modern, not the case in other large Spanish cities.

Not denying that, but right now they are subsidizing Spain and it is in their self interest to fiscally separate. Barcelona may not be as important as Madrid, but I'm just talking about dollars and cents here.

I don't understand why Spain can't figure out a way to keep more taxpayer money in Spain - if it's because Spain would collapse without Catalonia then why the hell would Catalans want to hitch their wagon to a collapsing country? Next Eurozone and debt crisis rolls around, Catalans don't want to pay the bills for lazy countrymen in the rest of the country who borrowed more than they could afford - can you blame them?
10-27-2017 05:42 PM
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Icarus Offline
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Post: #84
RE: Catalans declare independence from Spain
(10-27-2017 05:42 PM)Arado Wrote:  I don't understand why Spain can't figure out a way to keep more taxpayer money in Spain - if it's because Spain would collapse without Catalonia then why the hell would Catalans want to hitch their wagon to a collapsing country?

Economies of scale. An independent Catalunya needs its own embassies abroad, its own army, its own navy, its own air force. These would employ Catalans, but they would not be cheap. When small countries merge to form a larger one, security costs per capita can go down.

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(This post was last modified: 10-27-2017 05:47 PM by Icarus.)
10-27-2017 05:46 PM
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Post: #85
RE: Catalans declare independence from Spain
(10-27-2017 04:59 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  
(10-27-2017 04:18 PM)Icarus Wrote:  
(10-27-2017 04:13 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  Then why are you even posting here?

Why are you? My ancestors lived in Hispania for tens of millennia. Did yours?

My ancestors were in America busy humiliating your people and taking your empire in 1898.


Look like Hispania has been playing the long game:

[Image: 920x1240.jpg]

The picture might be similar in Chicago or Denver a few decades from now...

For Canada it's going to be Mandarin or Punjabi...

λ ό γ ο ς
10-27-2017 05:49 PM
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Icarus Offline
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Post: #86
RE: Catalans declare independence from Spain
(10-27-2017 05:49 PM)911 Wrote:  Look like Hispania has been playing the long game

Those pseudo-Hispanics' ancestors came mostly from Siberia, not Hispania. They are as Hispanic as Martin Luther King was Anglo-Saxon.

"The great secret of happiness in love is to be glad that the other fellow married her." – H.L. Mencken
(This post was last modified: 10-27-2017 05:53 PM by Icarus.)
10-27-2017 05:53 PM
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Post: #87
RE: Catalans declare independence from Spain
(10-27-2017 03:33 PM)Icarus Wrote:  
(10-27-2017 03:23 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  This was an attemt at a power grab and tax concessions that went askew

And why did it go askew?

I doubt the separatists in the Catalan government expected the central government to just say "Ok" and let them go. They had to expect a reaction from Madrid.

I was in Spain right before and during the referendum vote so I was watching, reading and listening to the various dialogues and I honestly got the sense that true independence was not the goal. There were no fiery "give me liberty or give me death" speeches.

Piudgemont wasnt expecting to end up having his whole government "dismissed" by Madrid. That's what I meant by "going askew". What seemingly started out as a way to create leverage for some financial concessions from the central government has ended up with him possibly arrested

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(This post was last modified: 10-27-2017 06:07 PM by PapayaTapper.)
10-27-2017 06:00 PM
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Post: #88
RE: Catalans declare independence from Spain
(10-27-2017 05:53 PM)Icarus Wrote:  
(10-27-2017 05:49 PM)911 Wrote:  Look like Hispania has been playing the long game

Those pseudo-Hispanics' ancestors came mostly from Siberia, not Hispania. They are as Hispanic as Martin Luther King was Anglo-Saxon.

Yeah but they've adopted the culture and in social justice/social 'science' ideology that makes them Hispanic. They think race is a social construct, you see.

They fail to see that it's evolution over tens of thousands of years that shapes people and not a culture they've had for a couple of centuries.
10-27-2017 06:10 PM
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Plus Oultre Offline
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Post: #89
RE: Catalans declare independence from Spain
(10-27-2017 05:06 PM)Icarus Wrote:  
(10-27-2017 04:58 PM)911 Wrote:  Most of the landmarks in Barcelona are modern, not the case in other large Spanish cities.

Probably because it was Castilla who colonized the Americas (at least during the Habsburg period).

Catalunya belonged to the Crown of Aragon and, thus, Catalans did not have the same rights as the Castillians with regards to trade with the Americas. Catalunya's sphere of influence was the Mediterranean Sea.

Again, let's not pick and chose historical facts. History could be looked from at another angle .... At the time of the "discovery", Aragon and Castille were united by the marriage of Isabelle and Ferdinand; it was underway to form the nucleus that would be modern Spain. From 1504 (Isabelle death) to 1516 (his death) Ferdinand pretty much ruled both Castille and Aragon, and upon his death, his son Charles became the king of both kingdoms. Catalans did benefit by this association, as if not because of this they would be speaking French. Just saying .....

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10-27-2017 06:10 PM
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Post: #90
RE: Catalans declare independence from Spain
Lets put faces to the names. Puidgemont:

   

   

Now, anyone believes that this is no more than a badly played bluff?? Puidgemont does not want independence.

Lets see history, some Basques wanted independence, so they formed a terrorist organization ETA and bombed the shit out of Spanish officials and killed mayors, cops, military and other more or less important people...

What has the Catalonian movement did? A fake referendum, and then they got their ass kicked.

Fuck this shit, this is an hoax, no one wants independence, they all want is to pay less taxes and its all. When people want freedom from an authoritarian ruler they pick up guns and go to fight. Barcelona is full of SJW's. Defending their cause is against what we all stand up for here in this forum.

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(This post was last modified: 10-27-2017 06:29 PM by Rocha.)
10-27-2017 06:12 PM
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Icarus Offline
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Post: #91
RE: Catalans declare independence from Spain
(10-27-2017 06:10 PM)Plus Oultre Wrote:  At the time of the "discovery", Aragon and Castille were united by the marriage of Isabelle and Ferdinand; it was underway to form the nucleus that would be modern Spain.

Sure, but (to the best of my knowledge) until the Bourbon dynasty, Castillians and Aragonese had different privileges. The first Bourbon king (who was born in France) abolished the distinction between Castillian and Aragonese and centralized everything, like in France. Aragon as a distinct political entity was finished and modern Spain was born.

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10-27-2017 06:16 PM
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Post: #92
RE: Catalans declare independence from Spain
10-27-2017 06:19 PM
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Post: #93
RE: Catalans declare independence from Spain
(10-27-2017 06:10 PM)Striking Wrote:  
(10-27-2017 05:53 PM)Icarus Wrote:  
(10-27-2017 05:49 PM)911 Wrote:  Look like Hispania has been playing the long game

Those pseudo-Hispanics' ancestors came mostly from Siberia, not Hispania. They are as Hispanic as Martin Luther King was Anglo-Saxon.

Yeah but they've adopted the culture and in social justice/social 'science' ideology that makes them Hispanic. They think race is a social construct, you see.

They fail to see that it's evolution over tens of thousands of years that shapes people and not a culture they've had for a couple of centuries.

[Image: giphy.gif]

_______________________________________
- Does She Have The "Happy Gene" ?
-Inversion Therapy
-Let's lead by example


"Leap, and the net will appear". John Burroughs

"The big question is whether you are going to be able to say a hearty yes to your adventure."
Joseph Campbell
10-27-2017 06:21 PM
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Laska Offline
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Post: #94
RE: Catalans declare independence from Spain
Is anything happening on the ground, or is this the eye of the storm?
10-27-2017 07:03 PM
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Post: #95
RE: Catalans declare independence from Spain
(10-27-2017 07:03 PM)Laska Wrote:  Is anything happening on the ground, or is this the eye of the storm?

[Image: E_aDAkLnF9Q8AEJpvdyQmN1zmtIFJrW2fw5lehbf...517046b742]
10-27-2017 07:18 PM
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Post: #96
RE: Catalans declare independence from Spain
^^Sounds like it's either the eye of the storm, or there won't be much turmoil. Thanks mate.
10-27-2017 07:56 PM
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Post: #97
RE: Catalans declare independence from Spain
Sorry not really sure just saw the story. Still reading myself.
10-27-2017 08:01 PM
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Post: #98
RE: Catalans declare independence from Spain
This was predictable ever since the "Kosovo precedent" was made contrary to Belgrade's wishes because Albanians packed papers into ballot boxes.

I think the EU is playing a double game. The Catalan bobos (the 1960s fusion of Trots and bourgeois capital) are closer to the EU's "c€ntr€ ground" than are conservative Spanish. The EU has been feeding the term "a Europe of regions" into public discourse for years now and it is obvious that the formation of a United States of Europe would be easier by dissolving nation states into regions first.

The only form of "nationalists" allowed to exist in Europe are those who are globalist and seek the dissolution of the present nation states.
10-28-2017 04:23 AM
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Post: #99
RE: Catalans declare independence from Spain
(10-28-2017 04:23 AM)N°6 Wrote:  The only form of "nationalists" allowed to exist in Europe are those who are globalist and seek the dissolution of the present nation states.

Catalan nationalism makes much more sense than Spanish nationalism.

Forming artificial nation states like Spain, Italy and Germany obviously has its advantages, but the loss of linguistic diversity should trigger any conservationist conservative.

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10-28-2017 04:41 AM
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Post: #100
RE: Catalans declare independence from Spain
(10-28-2017 04:41 AM)Icarus Wrote:  
(10-28-2017 04:23 AM)N°6 Wrote:  The only form of "nationalists" allowed to exist in Europe are those who are globalist and seek the dissolution of the present nation states.

Catalan nationalism makes much more sense than Spanish nationalism.

Forming artificial nation states like Spain, Italy and Germany obviously has its advantages, but the loss of linguistic diversity should trigger any conservationist conservative.

To add to this, people saying that the Catalan language is dying are either just lying, or just spouting their 'facts' based off the fact that elsewhere in the world, regional languages are dying.

It's actually laughable that the main defence of Spain keeping Catalunya according to some of the posters here is that 'Catalonia is full of SJWs'. So? Every region/'country' has the right to self-determination, and you're as bad as the EU if you say otherwise.

Let them vote. If they really are a SJW state, then they will be doomed to fail and hopefully it might set a precedent to avoid in the future.

Madrid has fucked up big time. The polls showed that a slight majority were in favour of unionism, so they should have taken a deep breath and allowed a 'legal' referendum. As usual, Spain has a lot to learn from us. We've allowed Scotland and many other territories to vote on their independence. They always stay.
10-28-2017 05:09 AM
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