I'm Touring The United States! Starting in June, I'm conducting private events in 23 American cities. Click here for full details.

Post Reply 
Catalans declare independence from Spain
Author Message
Svoboda Offline
Kingfisher
***

Posts: 561
Joined: Aug 2015
Reputation: 2
Post: #226
RE: Catalans declare independence from Spain
(10-31-2017 09:15 PM)Super_Fire Wrote:  I thought the issue is that the Catalans want to break away and form their own socialist feminist "utopia" and people are now sitting back and waiting for them to turn into Venezuela 2.0 with bonus Muslim refugees.

Unless you live in Catalunya that's a good thing.

1- makes the rest of Spain less feminist
2- a few years from now every attractive Catalan girl will suck your dick for the chance to escape poisonous feminist Catalunya LOL
11-01-2017 02:23 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 4 users Like Svoboda's post:
Elster, Handsome Creepy Eel, IveBeenFramed, CJ_W
redpillage Offline
Ostrich
****
Gold Member

Posts: 2,310
Joined: Nov 2014
Reputation: 48
Post: #227
RE: Catalans declare independence from Spain
(11-01-2017 01:00 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  Ouch, harsh critique. For the TL;DR:

- Puigdemont's own pro-independence constituents think he's a coward.
- The libtard separatists are living up to the worst stereotypes of Spanish culture and expected breaking away to be easy and not difficult.
- Ultimately, no one had the balls to stand up for their freedom by fighting for it.
- The region has been harmed economically by businesses leaving.
- The International community couldn't care less.
- The Spanish government has the whole region by the balls.

Looks like my prediction of irrelevancy is coming true. I eagerly await any news to the contrary.

[Image: 640x360_0c934eba-56b8-478c-b39c-cee5c5806e38.jpg]

Only a bunch of feminists, libtards, and asshats would follow a guy like this who obviously cuts his own hair with a chamber pot.

*******************************************************************
"The sheep pretend the wolf will never come, but the sheepdog lives for that day."
– Lt. Col. Dave Grossman
11-01-2017 02:58 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 4 users Like redpillage's post:
Rocha, The Beast1, Jetset, CJ_W
C-Note Offline
Ostrich
****
Gold Member

Posts: 2,111
Joined: Jul 2015
Reputation: 16
Post: #228
RE: Catalans declare independence from Spain
There was a Catalonian independence demonstration in my city (in the US) at a park near my office a few weeks ago, so I walked over during my lunch hour to check it out. Myself and several other spectators tried to engage some of the demonstrators (there were about 30 of them) in Spanish and English to explain their position, and they completely ignored us. All they wanted to do was wave their flags and chat among themselves. I was reluctant to conclude, based on a single incident, that the Catalonian separatists are a bunch of snooty cunts, but the comments and observations in this thread are making me think that maybe it is the case.
11-02-2017 09:32 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 8 users Like C-Note's post:
Elster, The Beast1, Mekorig, Going strong, Handsome Creepy Eel, Prince Machiavelli, billbudsocket, Nevsky
Icarus Offline
Ostrich
****

Posts: 2,288
Joined: Apr 2012
Reputation: 45
Post: #229
RE: Catalans declare independence from Spain
I am surprised no one has yet posted this short clip from L'Auberge Espagnole:





The very same happened to everyone I know who did Erasmus in Barcelona.

"The great secret of happiness in love is to be glad that the other fellow married her." – H.L. Mencken
11-02-2017 12:03 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 1 user Likes Icarus's post:
Elster
Icarus Offline
Ostrich
****

Posts: 2,288
Joined: Apr 2012
Reputation: 45
Post: #230
RE: Catalans declare independence from Spain
Inna Afinogenova is pretty, ain't she?




"The great secret of happiness in love is to be glad that the other fellow married her." – H.L. Mencken
11-03-2017 07:47 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 1 user Likes Icarus's post:
Elster
Elster Away
Ostrich
****
Gold Member

Posts: 1,752
Joined: Dec 2015
Reputation: 31
Post: #231
RE: Catalans declare independence from Spain
For those who are bored:
Found a nifty article with a vid debunking (or trying to at least) many of the catalonian separatist myths.
The video is in spanish but the blog article has an english translation of the synopsis and analysis.
Even if spanish history is not of your interest it is an interesting read for those that wish to analyze the use and technique of propaganda

Source link:
https://ramrock.wordpress.com/2017/11/05...n-10-lies/





blog articl Wrote:Video runs on networks like gunpowder. Youtube has already seen about one million people and there is no day that is thrown to the face accompanied by a: “Take, learn a little history.” It is about History of Catalonia in 10 minutes, a beacon of the independentist story made by the producer Carki, who has already published a similar video, with more success if possible, about the Basque Country.

The original video is full of biases, half truths, historical reinterpretations or directly lies. “And even then, it’s not the worst I’ve seen,” *says El Independiente Jordi Canal i Morell, author of the hit Minimum History of Catalonia (Turner, 2015), a native of Olot (Gerona), a doctoral historian and professor at the School of High Studies in Social Sciences of Paris.

Together with the teacher we stopped to analyze the video, point by point. Canal stops him at each inaccuracy and, after an hour, the concept of the work has completely changed. This is not the history of Catalonia in 10 minutes, but the history of Catalonia in 10 lies:

1 – The trap of presenteeism. The video, from the first moment and throughout its extension, keeps on the map the border of the current Catalonia. Even from the Greek period, where the story of a story presumably differentiated from that of the rest of the peninsula begins. “It’s an absolute abuse,” says Canal. “There is no such thing as Catalonia, or anything that resembles it, or anything that is predestined to be.” The video, however, insists on presenting the colony of Ampurias as “the beginning of what Catalonia will be like”.

With the arrival of the Romans, the trick remains the same. “A line continues to appear that is conditioning the person who sees the video to imagine that those things that are there are different from those that exist elsewhere, which at that time does not make any sense,” says the historian. “It is curious that the video, when it highlights important Roman towns, opts for what are now provincial capitals, which are not necessarily the most important at that time,” he continues. “I could talk about the current Badalona, for example, or the current Mataró, which at the moment were very important. There is an attempt to link these cities with what they are now: it is more important to place Gerunda than to place Ampurias because it refers you more to the present “.

The conclusion, in this sense, is clear: “One of the problems of the video, and the story of nationalism, is the permanent trap of presenteeism.” An obvious example of this occurs when the story says that the Visigoths “pass through Catalonia” on their way to the conquest of the peninsula. “As if Catalonia existed at that time,” rejects the professor.

2 – The ‘two Catalonias’. The story makes special emphasis on the emergence of the Hispanic Mark favored by the Franks to snatch territory from the Muslims who dominated the peninsula. That’s where the first counties emerge, and that’s where the video says that there are “two Catalonians.” “Catalonia the old, the one of the counties; and Catalonia, the new one, which is still Muslim territory “, simplifies the voice-over that guides the video.

This statement is one of the most obscene of the whole. “There are not two Catalonians, that’s just Al-Andalus,” says Canal, referring to what Carki calls the new Catalonia, at a time when, according to the video, Catalan society already appears as a whole. “This is spoken of as something evident and as if it existed. There is no Catalan society, there is not even the name of Catalonia. There are some counties that are beginning to join in the north of what is now Catalonia, and we always have on the map that reminder of what it is going to be, “insists Canal. “In that moment of the speaker, the separation of the North and the South, the South has no borders.”

3 – The unnamed Crown of Aragon. The production makes reference to the link of Ramón Berenguer and Petronila as the moment in which the Catalan counties join the Crown of Aragon, with “total autonomy of government”. “Once again the terms”, underlines Canal, “autonomy and self-government are terms that we apply from the present to the past”.

The video then moves on to the expansion of the Mediterranean and, by magic, references to the Crown of Aragon disappear immediately. “Catalonia is now a great power,” says the story. The historian contradicts it: “When he talks about the expansion of the peninsula and the Mediterranean, he says that it is the Catalan expansion, not the expansion of the Crown of Aragon. The Catalan terminology invented in the nineteenth century new terms for the Crown of Aragon that had never existed until now. People then recognized themselves as Aragonese. In the Mediterranean expansion the almogávares, who have now become nationalizing agents, what they shouted was: ‘Aragón, Aragón!’.

“If it had been nuanced and said that in Mallorca they were basically Catalans, then yes. But it can not be sustained is that Valencia was conquered specifically by Catalans, when there were the Aragonese who led the baton of the conquest of what is going to be the Kingdom of Valencia, “continues Canal, who attributes this design to” an idea of future, which is the idea of a certain Catalan nationalism of the Catalan Countries “.

4 – The false continuity of the institutions. The video stops, logically, in the creation of the main Catalan institutions. “Catalan self-management is becoming increasingly solid,” says the narrator, while the video actor shows a closed fist in sign of strength.

“It is true that in the 14th century there is an institution called Diputación del General, which has nothing to do with the current Government,” says Canal, who fears the video will illustrate the institutions of the 14th century with their current symbols . “It is about giving continuity that also the presidents of the Generalitat adopt, without taking into account that the Generalitat, until the eighteenth century, has nothing to do with the current Generalitat”.

The author of Minimal History of Catalonia refutes the myth of the “restoration” of the Generalitat in 1931. “There is no restoration but a creation of an institution that will bear the old name of the Generalitat. There are not 130 presidents of the Generalitat, the account begins with Francesc Macià, but the nationalist story will always try that, “he continues.

In this sense, he insists on pointing out that “if the Generalitat of the 31 is called Generalitat, it was proposed by the justice minister Fernando de los Ríos (PSOE), who proposed it to Macià and Companys”.

5 – The social bias. The video insists on several occasions on the presumed social nature of the construction of the Catalan nation. And it refers, in the first instance, to the first peasant revolts in which, according to his version, the monarch turns against the elites to “liberate the peasants from the ties of the nobles and their abuses.”

“The king does not put himself totally on the side of the peasants, jumping on the nobles. They reach an understanding that favors some peasants, the richest, and leaves others hanging. That reading in a sociomarxist key, which was fashionable at a certain moment, is already very questioned, “explains the professor. The video insists on several occasions in making coincide the social revolts with national revolts.

6 – The isolation in America. The story of the producer highlights the autonomy “of Aragon and Catalonia” under the reign of the Catholic Monarchs. And he assures that, while Castile is launched to the discovery of America, “Aragon and Catalonia do not participate in that colonization, they follow their own path and focus more on the conquest of the Mediterranean, expanding to Sardinia, Sicily and Naples.” Again the language: while Castilla colonizes, Catalonia expands.

“First, we continue talking about Corona de Aragón. And then, the latest studies show that the Catalans did have a role in the conquest of America. That America was only for the Castilians is a myth, “says the professor. “The Catalans, especially from a commercial point of view, did a great business and had a great intervention in America. Although the Catalan ports do not open until the eighteenth century, until then the Catalan products went south by cabotage and from there they went to America, “he adds.

A glance, without going any further, to the politicians of the time, belies the isolation of Aragon in America. Melchor Navarra and Rocafull, Manuel Amat and Juniet, Manuel de Oms and Santa Pau or Gabriel de Avilés and del Fierro, all of them Aragonese and some of them Catalan, were viceroys of Peru.

7 – The War of Succession. The video, in just under a minute, dispatches the War of Succession under the classic argument of Catalan nationalism: a Spanish civil war in which Catalonia fights in favor of the Austrias for their guarantees towards self-government and the rest of Spain supports the Bourbon centralist. Culminated by the defeat of September 11, 1714, today commemorated in the Diada, and the step to ostracism of Catalan institutions.

“Evidently, the War of Succession is a dynastic war, but it is not said to be eminently an international war in which all the European powers are, and in which the support to one or the other candidate has to do with the interests of those powers, not with the ideas of more centralism or less. The key in this war is the game between Great Britain, France and Austria, “explains Canal.

The idea of monolithic support in Catalonia towards the Austrian candidate is also debatable. “That has to be nuanced, things are not so simple. There are Catalans in the Felipista camp. People, but also populations such as Cervera and many others. And it is not true that in the rest of Spain everyone was a felipist, there were also Austrians in Castile “.

8 – Proletarian nationalism. The video progresses and recounts the process of industrialization that Catalonia and the rest of Europe live in the nineteenth century as a cause of the rebirth of the proletariat and, at his hand, political Catalan, which again insist on conferring a social, rebellious origin and worker

“Linking so clearly proletarianization and political Catalanism is a reading that has generated historiographical debates,” says the professor, which reflects the two sides confronted in this interpretation. “The thesis that Catalanism has popular origins was that of Josep Termes and some historians who contradicted the thesis that Solé Tura put into circulation long ago, and then many others retorted, that political Catalanism is born of the bourgeoisie”.

“I get the impression that behind the video there is a Catalan nationalist discourse, but a left-wing nationalism”, analyzes the author of Historia mínima de Cataluña.

9 – The reinterpretation of Carlism. Canal, as an expert in Carlist history, goes deep into the national interpretation that video makes of these conflicts, according to which Catalonia as a unit is positioned next to the aspirant Carlos María de Borbón as guarantor of its self-government.

“This is an absolute falsehood,” says the professor. “In Catalonia, the Carlists were very important, but they are not majorities except in some areas: part of the interior Catalonia, some part of southern Catalonia, but basically the liberals are the ones who predominate in Catalonia at that time.”

“Very seldom does it allude to self-government or to Catalan institutions during the Carlist wars,” continues Canal, who says that Catalan nationalism and video in particular make a “Basque” reading of the conflict.

The story, moreover, only refers to the conflicts in which Catalonia, in some way, participates and loses. Never to those in which it participates and wins. “Obvia for example the War of Independence, where the Catalan mobilization does not speak of institutions and is entirely for Spain. It does not fit well into the story, “he analyzes.

10 – Catalan in the Franco regime. While the Franco regime is an obvious reaction against all the republican institutions, including the Generalitat, which extends evenly during the 40 years of dictatorship, the repression towards Catalan suffers different stages. The daily press in Catalan and much of its use in institutions is prohibited. As Canal explains, the use of the language evolves during these four decades and, in fact, in the “last Francoism” it becomes a powerful and effective weapon of contestation.

It is the ‘boom’ of the nova cançó catalana, undoubtedly one of the cultural expressions of greatest political and contestatory value. Voices such as those of Joan Manuel Serrat or Lluís Llach, today deputy of Junts pel Yes, emerge then as references not only in Catalonia, but throughout Spain, which finds in its messages an anti-Franco refuge. Even so, it is during these years, in 1968, when Serrat refuses to go to Eurovision when he is banned from singing in Catalan.

Catalan literature has also flourished since the late 1950s: prizes for literature in Catalan and specialized magazines have been published. In 1970, the decree allowing teaching in languages other than Spanish in primary education was signed.

FUENTE / SOURCE: EL INDEPENDIENTE

We move between light and shadow, mutually influencing and being influenced through shades of gray...
11-05-2017 03:17 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 2 users Like Elster's post:
The Beast1, Going strong
Elster Away
Ostrich
****
Gold Member

Posts: 1,752
Joined: Dec 2015
Reputation: 31
Post: #232
RE: Catalans declare independence from Spain



We move between light and shadow, mutually influencing and being influenced through shades of gray...
11-05-2017 04:28 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 3 users Like Elster's post:
PapayaTapper, redpillage, Rocha
Icarus Offline
Ostrich
****

Posts: 2,288
Joined: Apr 2012
Reputation: 45
Post: #233
RE: Catalans declare independence from Spain
(10-28-2017 03:55 PM)Icarus Wrote:  I have read claims that Catalunya's recent push for independence is related to impending changes in Andorra's laws on banking secrecy. Does anyone know anything about that?

Andorra to renounce banking secrecy as it sheds tax haven status (Dec. 2, 2016)

"The great secret of happiness in love is to be glad that the other fellow married her." – H.L. Mencken
(This post was last modified: 11-19-2017 06:28 PM by Icarus.)
11-19-2017 06:27 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 1 user Likes Icarus's post:
Handsome Creepy Eel
Going strong Offline
Crow
*****
Gold Member

Posts: 4,129
Joined: Sep 2014
Reputation: 84
Post: #234
RE: Catalans declare independence from Spain
"Catalan" Alt-left extremists may have (reportedly) poisoned the Spanish State Attorney, the courageous "Fiscal general" Maza, one or two days ago - either in Madrid at the airport or during the flight, or in Buenos Aires. Leftists and the Soros soldiers, stop at nothing.
11-19-2017 06:40 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
redpillage Offline
Ostrich
****
Gold Member

Posts: 2,310
Joined: Nov 2014
Reputation: 48
Post: #235
RE: Catalans declare independence from Spain
(11-05-2017 04:28 PM)Elster Wrote:  


I think many members may not get the joke unless they speak Spanish fluently and get the word game. If I for instance say 'I love the Flemish landscape' in Spanish it's something along the lines of 'me gusta el paisaje flamenco' - which obviously is spelled identically to 'flamenco' the dance popular in Andalusia.

So Puigdemont potentially seeking asylum in Brussels is being ridiculed as him winding up hazed by a Flamenco group. It's pretty hilarious if you have a thing for Spanish humor, which in my opinion is a bit of an acquired taste.

*******************************************************************
"The sheep pretend the wolf will never come, but the sheepdog lives for that day."
– Lt. Col. Dave Grossman
11-21-2017 08:19 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
The Beast1 Offline
Peacock
******
Gold Member

Posts: 7,610
Joined: May 2013
Reputation: 85
Post: #236
RE: Catalans declare independence from Spain
Catalonian independence is out of the news, their leader arrested, exposed as a coward, and life continues on as if nothing has happened.

Glad to see nothing has changed on that peninsula!
11-21-2017 12:37 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 2 users Like The Beast1's post:
redpillage, Handsome Creepy Eel
redpillage Offline
Ostrich
****
Gold Member

Posts: 2,310
Joined: Nov 2014
Reputation: 48
Post: #237
RE: Catalans declare independence from Spain
(11-21-2017 12:37 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  Catalonian independence is out of the news, their leader arrested, exposed as a coward, and life continues on as if nothing has happened.

Glad to see nothing has changed on that peninsula!

So true, no lessons are ever learned here. Everyone is just winging it as shit comes up. The Spaniards are a strange bunch.

*******************************************************************
"The sheep pretend the wolf will never come, but the sheepdog lives for that day."
– Lt. Col. Dave Grossman
11-21-2017 04:34 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 3 users Like redpillage's post:
Samseau, The Beast1, Handsome Creepy Eel
Kid Twist Offline
Hummingbird
*****

Posts: 2,933
Joined: Jan 2016
Reputation: 34
Post: #238
RE: Catalans declare independence from Spain
The original idea (presented here by whom, I can't recall) that they already fought a war on this, the ... oh yea, Spanish CIVIL WAR

always made this a non-starter

Get your passport ready!
(This post was last modified: 11-22-2017 07:08 PM by Kid Twist.)
11-22-2017 07:07 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Mekorig Offline
Pelican
****
Gold Member

Posts: 1,612
Joined: Feb 2013
Reputation: 19
Post: #239
RE: Catalans declare independence from Spain
Really funny shit. And i agree, spanish humor is an adquired taste.

"What is important is to try to develop insights and wisdom rather than mere knowledge, respect someone's character rather than his learning, and nurture men of character rather than mere talents." - Inazo Nitobe

When i´m feeling blue, when i just need something to shock me up, i look at this thread and everything get better!

Letters from the battlefront: Argentina
11-22-2017 08:43 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 


Possibly Related Threads...
Thread: Author Replies: Views: Last Post
  It's Official, Spain has fallen: Transsexual Miss Universe Diablo 40 9,293 07-16-2018 01:41 PM
Last Post: Diablo
  Spain Elects Feminist Government redpillage 27 6,346 06-17-2018 10:48 PM
Last Post: Samseau
  New York Times declare we're at the "age of the twink" Roosh 23 5,505 06-03-2018 10:04 PM
Last Post: Jetset

Forum Jump:


User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)

Contact Us | RooshV.com | Return to Top | Return to Content | Mobile Version | RSS Syndication