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GOP Tax Plan 2017-18
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Libertas Offline
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Post: #126
RE: GOP Tax Plan 2017-18
They better pass some version of a tax bill after tonight.

Otherwise it's going to be seen as a disastrous year.

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12-12-2017 11:01 PM
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HighSpeed_LowDrag Offline
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Post: #127
RE: GOP Tax Plan 2017-18
They will. McConnell and his establishment backers will make sure of it.

Dow Futures are off, but only by 40 or so points.

Could they pass the bill before Jones gets seated, I wonder?

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12-12-2017 11:22 PM
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Post: #128
RE: GOP Tax Plan 2017-18
If this bill is passed, it is only because the (((patrons))) of the establishment are breathing down McConnell's neck to do so.
12-12-2017 11:35 PM
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Post: #129
RE: GOP Tax Plan 2017-18

HSLD
(This post was last modified: 12-13-2017 02:49 PM by HighSpeed_LowDrag.)
12-13-2017 02:49 PM
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Easy_C Offline
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Post: #130
RE: GOP Tax Plan 2017-18
(12-05-2017 02:18 PM)Synezthetic Wrote:  
(12-05-2017 01:11 PM)Matt Forney Wrote:  The recession in the late 2000's had nothing to do with tax cuts, it was due to the housing crisis. Bush made it easier for Latinos and other minorities to buy houses through subprime mortgages (which were backed by the federal government) and housing market/loan deregulation so they could vote for him in 2004. When they started defaulting in massive numbers in 2007 (because they shouldn't have been given mortgages to begin with), it caused the entire economy to tank.

Yes - also important to remember this was all initially set in motion with Bill Clinton in the mid-90's strengthening the Community Reinvestment Act, which set the framework to encourage such subprime lending. Then Bush, under the guise of "compassionate conservatism" raised the HUD's goal for minority home-ownership even higher, which ultimately just sped up the process and caused the economy to collapse sooner.

And none of that trading could have happened to repeal with had Clinton not repealed the Volcker Rule.
12-13-2017 09:46 PM
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HighSpeed_LowDrag Offline
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Post: #131
RE: GOP Tax Plan 2017-18
Rubio and Corker are now a 'yes' on the tax bill.

Quote:Two influential Senate Republicans said they would support the GOP’s sweeping tax overhaul finalized Friday, giving the party’s tax push a major jolt of momentum as lawmakers scramble to send the legislation to President Donald Trump next week.

Sen. Bob Corker of Tennessee, the sole Republican to reject the Senate’s version of the tax measure earlier this month, said Friday that he would support the final bill after all — despite his repeated concerns that it would balloon the nation’s deficit.

“In the end, after 11 years in the Senate, I know every bill we consider is imperfect and the question becomes is our country better off with or without this piece of legislation,” Corker said. “I think we are better off with it. I realize this is a bet on our country’s enterprising spirit, and that is a bet I am willing to make.”

Corker’s surprise flip came shortly after House and Senate negotiators had agreed on last-minute changes to their tax measure in order to win over GOP holdouts — locking down the vote of Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.), who threatened to oppose the bill until he secured changes more to his liking.

The negotiators agreed to expand the child tax credit at the behest of Rubio, who announced on Thursday that he would be a "no" unless the credit was made more generous. The refundable portion of the child tax credit was increased from $1,100 to $1,400, according to a senior Senate GOP aide.

Rubio’s office confirmed the Florida senator, whose surprise announcement Thursday threw a last-minute curveball into the complicated negotiations, will flip to a “yes” on the tax measure.

“For far too long, Washington has ignored and left behind the American working class. Increasing the refundability of the Child Tax Credit from 55% to 70% is a solid step toward broader reforms which are both Pro-Growth and Pro-Worker,” Rubio tweeted Friday. “But there is still much more to do in the months and years to come. The progress made on the Child Tax Credit would not have been possible without the support of @SenMikeLee, @SenatorTimScott, and @IvankaTrump.”

News of the changes leaked out as a joint panel of lawmakers from both chambers signed the legislative text they intend to be the final version of tax reform. At midday on Friday, the panel's chairman, Rep. Kevin Brady (R-Texas), declared the text to be "valid." His office said the text would be filed with the House Rules Committee at 5:30 p.m.

Rubio's and Corker’s support significantly narrows the list of undecided senators who could make or break the tax bill’s future when it comes for a floor vote next week. Sen. Mike Lee (R-Utah), who demanded the same child tax credit changes as Rubio, seemed closer to getting on board on Friday afternoon.

“Sens. Rubio, [Dean] Heller, and [Tim] Scott have done a tremendous job fighting for working families this week and they have secured a big win,” Lee said Friday. “I look forward to reading the full text of the bill and, hopefully, supporting it.”

Sen. Jeff Flake (R-Ariz.) remained undecided as he uses his leverage on the tax bill to push forward on a separate measure protecting young undocumented immigrants in the United States. Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine), a perennial key vote, has yet to review the latest version of the tax bill and won’t likely announce her position until Monday, a spokeswoman said.

And following reports of the expanded child tax credit, Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) tweeted his displeasure with the change — although a spokesman indicated that didn’t mean Graham would necessarily vote against the bill.

“While I support child tax credits I do not support the idea of using general revenue to pay for an individual’s Social Security contribution,” Graham said, referring to the fact that the child tax credit would be refundable for payroll taxes in addition to individual returns, a measure meant to target it towards more low- and middle-income families.

HSLD
(This post was last modified: 12-15-2017 04:02 PM by HighSpeed_LowDrag.)
12-15-2017 04:01 PM
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Duke Castile Offline
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Post: #132
RE: GOP Tax Plan 2017-18
Something I just realized, the child tax credit will encourage white people to have children.

We were meant for far more than to suffer in our self created prisons only to die alone. It doesn't have to be that way. It never did.
12-15-2017 06:11 PM
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Post: #133
RE: GOP Tax Plan 2017-18
(12-15-2017 06:11 PM)Fisto Wrote:  Something I just realized, the child tax credit will encourage white people to have children.

$300 extra to have more children is a stretch - maybe if it wast $5k ?

It's expensive to raise a kid (but gets a bit cheaper the more you have)

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12-15-2017 06:49 PM
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Uzisuicide Offline
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Post: #134
RE: GOP Tax Plan 2017-18
I don't get it... The standard deduction for a couple under the new plan is $24,000. Most itemized deductions are gone. There is mortgage interest, state property/income tax up to $10,000 deductable but it isn't really classified as itemizing.

Can you take the standard deduction of $24,000 AND deduct mortgage interest and property tax on top of it? If you can then that's terrific. If not then the almost nobody will "itemize."
12-15-2017 07:25 PM
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Libertas Offline
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Post: #135
RE: GOP Tax Plan 2017-18
These fucking losers couldn't even get the corporate rate down to 20 but had to go to 21% and couldn't repeal the death tax. Plus, Ann Coulter linked to a good post showing how the repeal of the state and local deductions could hurt the ability to consolidate the rust belt and go on to win states like New Hampshire and Minnesota, which came very, very close to going red last year.

Are the individual rates permanent or do they sunset? Do the new rates begin immediately?

It's unbelievable how timid these losers are. And yet they claim to be the best people in the country. Unbelievable.

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12-15-2017 09:39 PM
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booshala Offline
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Post: #136
RE: GOP Tax Plan 2017-18
(12-15-2017 09:39 PM)Libertas Wrote:  These fucking losers couldn't even get the corporate rate down to 20 but had to go to 21% and couldn't repeal the death tax. Plus, Ann Coulter linked to a good post showing how the repeal of the state and local deductions could hurt the ability to consolidate the rust belt and go on to win states like New Hampshire and Minnesota, which came very, very close to going red last year.

Are the individual rates permanent or do they sunset? Do the new rates begin immediately?

It's unbelievable how timid these losers are. And yet they claim to be the best people in the country. Unbelievable.

I think 21% is incredibly close to their initial offer of 20%. Estate tax is already high at $5.5M and now they're doubling it to $12M. If you have an estate well over $12M at your death, you're almost certainly going to be smart enough and financially capable to set up 529 plans and retain legal help to create trusts/foundations to cut any overage down to a pittance. I don't know if these are the most appropriate parts of the plan to rail against.
12-15-2017 10:35 PM
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Cobra Offline
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Post: #137
RE: GOP Tax Plan 2017-18
Won't be long before white people want to claim a puppy tax credit.

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12-15-2017 11:56 PM
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Post: #138
RE: GOP Tax Plan 2017-18
I can't believe how fucking terrible and preposterous this tax bill is. I thought when they released the original version they hit rock bottom and there was no possible way they could make it worse, but I was mistaken. Here is a chart that shows what happens to effective marginal tax rates on pass through income due to the way the cucks decided to create a deduction that becomes retroactively phased out if you exceed a certain income threshold.
[Image: joe_11.22.17_figure.png]
This graph was created for the original senate bill and shows the use case for a married couple. For single filers, that huge spike began at $250k. However, the reconciled bill now shifts it down to $157k for single filers!

Get your head around this: if you're a doctor, lawyer, plumber etc who owns his own business you will now be taxed at an effective marginal rate of >70% for every dollar you earn over the first $157,000, until you hit roughly~$260k at which point your marginal tax rate falls back to the maximum individual rate of 37%. The GOP faggot cucks are basically telling you that unless you're going to be making well over $500k, you better just be satisfied with your $157k you pathetic peasant and be glad we allowed you that much, because almost every additional penny you make over that is going straight to the IRS.

Do the math: First $100k above 157k is taxed at an effective rate of ~75%. The second $100k is taxed at the top individual rate of 37%. When you combine them, you get a marginal rate of 56% on the first 200k over 157k. The third 100k is also 37%, so now your effective top marginal rate is 49%. As you can see, the more money you make, the lower your marginal rate becomes under the GOP plan until it basically hits a horizontal asymptote at 37%. So the big law partner making $5m has a marginal tax rate of 37%, while the plumber or independent contractor welder making $200k has a rate of 70%. Fuck this, I can't vote for this POS party ever again and maintain my self respect, fuck the wall (which these asshole are never going to fund anyway) and fuck everything else.

Meanwhile, did I really just read someone vociferously bitching that globalist corporations will have to satisfy themselves with a 21% tax rate instead of a hoped for 20% on their trillions of profits? Jesus fucking christ man.
(This post was last modified: 12-16-2017 12:06 AM by Higgs Bosun.)
12-16-2017 12:03 AM
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Post: #139
RE: GOP Tax Plan 2017-18
(12-16-2017 12:03 AM)Higgs Bosun Wrote:  I can't believe how fucking terrible and preposterous this tax bill is. I thought when they released the original version they hit rock bottom and there was no possible way they could make it worse, but I was mistaken. Here is a chart that shows what happens to effective marginal tax rates on pass through income due to the way the cucks decided to create a deduction that becomes retroactively phased out if you exceed a certain income threshold.
[Image: joe_11.22.17_figure.png]
This graph was created for the original senate bill and shows the use case for a married couple. For single filers, that huge spike began at $250k. However, the reconciled bill now shifts it down to $157k for single filers!

Get your head around this: if you're a doctor, lawyer, plumber etc who owns his own business you will now be taxed at an effective marginal rate of >70% for every dollar you earn over the first $157,000, until you hit roughly~$260k at which point your marginal tax rate falls back to the maximum individual rate of 37%. The GOP faggot cucks are basically telling you that unless you're going to be making well over $500k, you better just be satisfied with your $157k you pathetic peasant and be glad we allowed you that much, because almost every additional penny you make over that is going straight to the IRS.

Do the math: First $100k above 157k is taxed at an effective rate of ~75%. The second $100k is taxed at the top individual rate of 37%. When you combine them, you get a marginal rate of 56% on the first 200k over 157k. The third 100k is also 37%, so now your effective top marginal rate is 49%. As you can see, the more money you make, the lower your marginal rate becomes under the GOP plan until it basically hits a horizontal asymptote at 37%. So the big law partner making $5m has a marginal tax rate of 37%, while the plumber or independent contractor welder making $200k has a rate of 70%. Fuck this, I can't vote for this POS party ever again and maintain my self respect, fuck the wall (which these asshole are never going to fund anyway) and fuck everything else.

Meanwhile, did I really just read someone vociferously bitching that globalist corporations will have to satisfy themselves with a 21% tax rate instead of a hoped for 20% on their trillions of profits? Jesus fucking christ man.

I thought this was being fixed in the final version? Haven't checked details on this but I would double check. If it's based on a deduction though how could the top marginal rate be higher than the top marginal rate for individuals?
12-16-2017 04:40 AM
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Libertas Offline
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Post: #140
RE: GOP Tax Plan 2017-18
These losers couldn't even reduce the brackets from 7 to 3 as they promised.

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12-16-2017 09:04 AM
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Post: #141
RE: GOP Tax Plan 2017-18
(12-15-2017 06:11 PM)Fisto Wrote:  Something I just realized, the child tax credit will encourage white people to have children.

Doesn't seem big enough to offset the student loan debt and wage stagnation millennials face imo.
12-16-2017 10:19 AM
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RE: GOP Tax Plan 2017-18
(12-16-2017 09:04 AM)Libertas Wrote:  These losers couldn't even reduce the brackets from 7 to 3 as they promised.

Yeah this feels like a step in the right direction, but WAY less of an overhaul and rethinking than the system needs.

Funny how some dems are deficit hawks now.
12-16-2017 10:21 AM
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Post: #143
RE: GOP Tax Plan 2017-18
Cobra,

Would love to see you do a write-up on this bill and hear your thoughts when you have time.

(Diop too, but I haven't seen him post in awhile. Hope all is well, Diop!)
12-16-2017 06:49 PM
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Post: #144
RE: GOP Tax Plan 2017-18
(12-16-2017 10:21 AM)Enoch Wrote:  
(12-16-2017 09:04 AM)Libertas Wrote:  These losers couldn't even reduce the brackets from 7 to 3 as they promised.

Yeah this feels like a step in the right direction, but WAY less of an overhaul and rethinking than the system needs.

Funny how some dems are deficit hawks now.

This is always what happens when Republicans are in charge.
12-16-2017 08:02 PM
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floor7 Offline
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RE: GOP Tax Plan 2017-18
(12-15-2017 06:11 PM)Fisto Wrote:  Something I just realized, the child tax credit will encourage white people to have children.

Not really. No tax credit will induce a 'create/don't create' decision when it comes to bearing children in the 21st century by k-selected people.

It's like the mortgage interest deduction, which doesn't really move the needle in terms someone deciding to buy or not but how much (price/sq footage, location) they end up buying (i.e. consuming). Similarly the child tax credit won't increase the number of children but will enrich the experiences/QoL of children that are already born/are going to be born (regardless of the credit coming into play or not). For example, enrolling them in a summer educational camp vs not doing so; or other extracurricular activities that cost money but benefit development.
12-16-2017 11:09 PM
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Post: #146
RE: GOP Tax Plan 2017-18
(12-16-2017 09:04 AM)Libertas Wrote:  These losers couldn't even reduce the brackets from 7 to 3 as they promised.

Probably the most disheartening thing about this whole effort. Tax simplification should have been top priority, rather than re-jiggering the already ridiculously byzantine tax code to royally fuck the upper-middle classes.

If this passes, it's hard to see how the GOP doesn't get destroyed in 2018.

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12-16-2017 11:24 PM
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RE: GOP Tax Plan 2017-18
(12-16-2017 11:24 PM)Buck Wild Wrote:  Probably the most disheartening thing about this whole effort. Tax simplification should have been top priority, rather than re-jiggering the already ridiculously byzantine tax code to royally fuck the upper-middle classes.

If this passes, it's hard to see how the GOP doesn't get destroyed in 2018.

Trump's base in Michigan/Pensylvania/wisconsin/Ohio etc are not the upper middle class in CA that will get screwed.

I would recommend everyone who doesn't have a business to ask for a minimum 15% raise. Companies will be able to afford it, h1bs are being cracked down even harder with spouses not being able to work, its the perfect time to get yours.
12-17-2017 02:10 AM
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RE: GOP Tax Plan 2017-18
Can anyone tell me if the middle class or lower class tax will increase or decrease by this tax bill and by how much?

Yes i have under 50 posts, I dont give a fucking shit cause I can't find the answer to my question from fake news that seems to fucking cry whenever Trump opens his mouth!!
(This post was last modified: 12-17-2017 05:31 AM by fuckoff.)
12-17-2017 05:24 AM
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Duke Castile Offline
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RE: GOP Tax Plan 2017-18
Why isn't there a line through this guy's name yet?

We were meant for far more than to suffer in our self created prisons only to die alone. It doesn't have to be that way. It never did.
12-17-2017 10:05 AM
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Post: #150
RE: GOP Tax Plan 2017-18
(12-17-2017 02:10 AM)8ball Wrote:  
(12-16-2017 11:24 PM)Buck Wild Wrote:  Probably the most disheartening thing about this whole effort. Tax simplification should have been top priority, rather than re-jiggering the already ridiculously byzantine tax code to royally fuck the upper-middle classes.

If this passes, it's hard to see how the GOP doesn't get destroyed in 2018.

Trump's base in Michigan/Pensylvania/wisconsin/Ohio etc are not the upper middle class in CA that will get screwed.

I would recommend everyone who doesn't have a business to ask for a minimum 15% raise. Companies will be able to afford it, h1bs are being cracked down even harder with spouses not being able to work, its the perfect time to get yours.

On what are you basing this 15% raise scenario? Corporate leverage is higher than its ever been. Earnings are driving the market up - higher operating costs decrease earnings. I don't think there much room in the marketplace for unmerited raises.
12-17-2017 12:05 PM
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