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LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
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Noir Offline
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Post: #51
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
(12-30-2018 03:12 PM)Investment Bro Wrote:  As for expectation management, I agree. No girl is going to check all the boxes, but I believe that you should have major things you aren't willing to compromise on that are shared by the other party. In business and in life, I've found this to be very successful for me. Write that post though, I'd love to read it, and I'm sure it's going to contain many nuggets that would be very beneficial to the guys here.

If I may ask, why did you break it off with your ex? What was leading you apart?


I actually posted a thread here concerning exit strategies 6 months before it ended.

A year before it ended, I felt this pressure from friends and family to get married. Benign comments from older family members at dinners. Her friends being proposed to and embarking on that journey. She felt the pressure too and never verbalized it apart from an argument or two where she questioned the future.

I saw that and it became evident during a holiday we took, when I showed her where I am from. She had this strange anticipation, especially in picturesque places and I could sense she expected me to propose. In a strange way, I also felt like I disappointed her in that way as she didn't manage her own expectations correctly despite my 'warnings' throughout the LTR.

She knew I wasn't ready or willing. Logically, everything pointed away from that but emotionally, she read into wanting it.

Combined with the external pressure, her fairytale dream, wanting to lock me down and the variables of romantic trip, staying with family and me being around childhood friends (as I moved away from home), things weren't the same after the trip.

There was an elephant in the room but it went ignored for a while. This holiday was 9 months before I ended it and 2 months before I considered ending it.

I realized I needed to move on when I had a few beers with a close friend (his fiancee is good friends with her) and he asked, when are you dropping a knee?

It was a joke but a joke that struck a nerve because I had been avoiding confronting that topic. I decided, I would end it sooner rather than later, before she hit 30 so she can find someone who was willing to provide her with want she wants- security, motherhood and companionship. For me, it would be a sacrifice and to appease her and we both knew I was not about that.

She knew this too and I believe she already was screening for suitors after me. Women always are 3 months ahead of men in relationships. My plan was thus to let her down smoothly and figure out the logistics of moving out, not causing insecurities and having the transition go down in a mutually beneficial manner.

Eventually, as things do, there was a straw that broke the camel's back. She was a bit drunk and was unreliable with something that was pretty important to me. She fucked me over as I relied on her for something. Part of me acknowledges that I somewhat knew she would do so and set it up this way. The other part, was disappointed but also relieved that I got the opportunity.

Things heated up, we said things we had been feeling for a while and woke up the next day feeling the same and standing by what we said.

We took a few days apart (she went to visit her mother) and came back and decided it was a good run.

A few weeks later, we parted ways and it was extremely emotional; more for her than for me but I am no cold fish.

She seemed to move on pretty quickly and is now engaged, 9 months after the fact. My mates and I had a good laugh about it over some drinks yesterday as I told them as soon as I ended it that she would get engaged in < 12 months.

I furthermore laughed when I saw the post on FB that her fiancee posted- "The love of my life said yes".

Love of my life. It's insane when you look back on what you shared with a person and another comes along and they felt this. She must feel so rewarded as she gave me everything and I appreciated it yet she gave this guy so much less and he was so much more grateful.

Then I wonder if she was seeing this guy during her trips to visit her mother as they are in the same town. The crazy thing is that I never, to this day, gave a shit despite some of my friends also wondering the same thing. I always thought I would be irate or hurt but I felt nothing at all.

I wrote this 'story' to flesh out what happened and how it happened. Until you asked me this question, I never actually did so and it's always different when you write it down and it stares you back in the face.


Why did I break it off?

- Time. The relationship was taking up way too much of my time, energy and effort- away from other endeavours I wanted to prioritize

- Space. I needed my own space to grow again and figure out the best way to get back on the direction I wanted to get.

- No mutual future. I did JPs self-authoring program in January and I didn't see her in any of my future plans. This was the final nail in the coffin when deciding.

- Family. We weren't compatible with each other's family.

- Too different. We had distant ideas of leisure, fun and how to spend our free time. Our relationship was built around lust which turned into love and trust. After a while, you take this for granted and look for other factors as the law of diminishing returns sets in.

- Freedom. I wanted to be single again solely for the option of rediscovering the thrill of flirting, seducing, courting and fucking other women.

- Age, genetics and beauty. She is 2 years older than me. Her genetics aren't that great. I was also 'out of her league'. Beauty is not a factor until a woman starts withdrawing effort and your ego kicks in. It kicks in after an argument or when you're out and have a few drinks and less inhibitions. It kicks in in the few times she flirts with other guys and you think 'LOL are you for real'.

When you stop being affected by the games and genuinely don't care, it's sometimes from a healthy, stoic point of view. Sometimes it's from an arrogant, 'I am out of your league' point of view. Posters will argue the merit of the latter but for me personally, I felt it made me a shittier person and set a frame that was unhealthy.

As you can imagine, there were a few more reasons but it boiled down to the fact that we were on the same bus but with different stops. The ride was enjoyable, lessons were learned and I will forever be grateful but my heart wasn't in it.
12-31-2018 09:53 AM
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redbeard Offline
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Post: #52
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
I can't remember where it was posted (here, CH, or Gavin McInnes?) but someone once said that after a year of dating, women start to resent you if you don't marry them. They know that the clock's ticking, and every minute given to you is one she can't spend finding a suitable husband.

How long was Noir with his girl?

(12-29-2018 11:57 AM)Noir Wrote:  I broke off my 3.5 year relationship in March. My ex has been seeing someone since April and got engaged a few days ago.

Hmmm I wonder when the resentment started?

(12-31-2018 09:53 AM)Noir Wrote:  A year before it ended, I felt this pressure from friends and family to get married. Benign comments from older family members at dinners. Her friends being proposed to and embarking on that journey. She felt the pressure too and never verbalized it apart from an argument or two where she questioned the future.

I saw that and it became evident during a holiday we took, when I showed her where I am from. She had this strange anticipation, especially in picturesque places and I could sense she expected me to propose. In a strange way, I also felt like I disappointed her in that way as she didn't manage her own expectations correctly despite my 'warnings' throughout the LTR.

She knew I wasn't ready or willing. Logically, everything pointed away from that but emotionally, she read into wanting it.

Combined with the external pressure, her fairytale dream, wanting to lock me down and the variables of romantic trip, staying with family and me being around childhood friends (as I moved away from home), things weren't the same after the trip.

There was an elephant in the room but it went ignored for a while.

3.5 - 1 = 2.5

Agree2

Two and a half years into a relationship, you should know if you want to marry her. No excuses. Women know and understand this, especially if you're living together:

Quote:She knew this too and I believe she already was screening for suitors after me. Women always are 3 months ahead of men in relationships. My plan was thus to let her down smoothly and figure out the logistics of moving out, not causing insecurities and having the transition go down in a mutually beneficial manner.

Let this be a lesson to all the men out there. If you aren't serious about marrying her, get out.

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12-31-2018 10:42 AM
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Noir Offline
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Post: #53
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
^^ Yes and no, it's not as extreme as that.

For the 'ticking time bomb' of marriage pressure I give more weight to:

- her age
- her peers (are they getting married or not)
- her career
- how long you have lived together
- your finances
- family pressure

All of these factors > 1 year 'deadline'. It's a rule of thumb perhaps but massive difference between a 21 and 28 year old. And I personally considered it 2 - 2.5 years but the point stands.

I knew she wanted marriage and I was selfish because the status quo benefited the other parts of my life I was working on. I didn't want to go through a break up and emotional bullshit while I was working on a project and balancing family problems.

Life doesn't give a fuck about your relationship and her feelings, if shit's being thrown your way, you gotta prioritize and make a plan. I always thought, if she wants to end it, she can end it. Instead, she pushed buttons for me to end it. Eventually, when I sorted out shit elsewhere and needed to free up the time/energy for the other parts of the puzzle + the relationship was fizzling out, it happened.

Knowing where she is at, your leverage and what you need to prioritize is something you need to balance in your relationship, should you see it coming to an end. It sounds fucked up, but I aim to be calculated with starting, ending and maintaining as I reserve the least amount of drama for women.

As for months 12 - 36, they were some of the best times. I learned a lot about myself, women and dealing with certain kind of pressures.

I said it before and I'll say it again. It's alluring to want to 'figure' it out and peg a definition or rule on timelines, behaviour and everything in between with relationships, but they are much more dynamic than that. You are pinging off each other for a prolonged period and the cumulative result differs for each person. Fuck, if you were to run the 'simulation' 1000 times, it would be different every time.

Therein lies the beauty and terror of LTRs and figuring women, humans, yourself out.
(This post was last modified: 01-03-2019 10:03 AM by Noir.)
01-03-2019 10:02 AM
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Jozi Offline
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Post: #54
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
If one was contemplating knocking up/wifing up a woman of similar race, but have given up on actual white women, who would you think have the most European DNA and who would make the best looking (closest looking to yourself) offspring? And secondly, who would you rather be in a LTR with (aside from the race factor)?

#1 - Heavily European ancestry latinas in South America (Such as dark blondes in Colombia, Venezuela or Peru)
#2 - Half breed/half white Asian girls, especially half breed Filipinas (as they tend to get a more latina or European look)

Latinas:

[Image: Carla-20Ossa-20photo.jpg]

[Image: 5185444963_a3b785ed7f.jpg]

Half breed Filipinas:

[Image: 2016-10-04_14:38:04_vanessa.jpg]

[Image: 9Ruffa%20Gutierrez.jpg]

[Image: 10Anne-Curtis.jpg]

[Image: 5tumblr_lnhnuyvpSl1qdik0n.jpg]
(This post was last modified: 01-03-2019 11:05 AM by Jozi.)
01-03-2019 10:48 AM
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Post: #55
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
(01-03-2019 10:48 AM)Jozi Wrote:  If one was contemplating knocking up/wifing up a woman of similar race, but have given up on actual white women, who would you think have the most European DNA and who would make the best looking (closest looking to yourself) offspring? And secondly, who would you rather be in a LTR with (aside from the race factor)?

#1 - Heavily European ancestry latinas in South America (Such as dark blondes in Colombia, Venezuela or Peru)
#2 - Half breed/half white Asian girls, especially half breed Filipinas (as they tend to get a more latina or European look)
I think you are going at it the wrong way. The criteria, as I see it, should be the actual girl's attributes/character rather then race.
I will agree that race may play a part in character, but if you are going to wife up any girl, you should "vet her like crazy".

For the sake of argument, let's say "looks" and "character" are the same. Why would you bother about "race"? (and of course "character" is never the same).

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01-03-2019 04:08 PM
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Post: #56
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
(01-03-2019 04:08 PM)TheMaleBrain Wrote:  I think you are going at it the wrong way. The criteria, as I see it, should be the actual girl's attributes/character rather then race.

For the sake of argument, let's say "looks" and "character" are the same. Why would you bother about "race"? (and of course "character" is never the same).

Because I want my kids to look like me. I also want them to be able to fully identify themselves with and be accepted among a genetically similar group to themselves later in life.
(This post was last modified: 01-03-2019 04:54 PM by Jozi.)
01-03-2019 04:53 PM
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Post: #57
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
Latinas

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01-03-2019 10:34 PM
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Post: #58
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
(01-03-2019 04:53 PM)Jozi Wrote:  
(01-03-2019 04:08 PM)TheMaleBrain Wrote:  I think you are going at it the wrong way. The criteria, as I see it, should be the actual girl's attributes/character rather then race.

For the sake of argument, let's say "looks" and "character" are the same. Why would you bother about "race"? (and of course "character" is never the same).

Because I want my kids to look like me. I also want them to be able to fully identify themselves with and be accepted among a genetically similar group to themselves later in life.

Understood
In that case filter based on skin color, and their family skin color. You might find a "light skinned" girl, but if her family has darker skin, you might get that "identification" issue.

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01-04-2019 01:39 AM
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Post: #59
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
(01-04-2019 01:39 AM)TheMaleBrain Wrote:  
(01-03-2019 04:53 PM)Jozi Wrote:  
(01-03-2019 04:08 PM)TheMaleBrain Wrote:  I think you are going at it the wrong way. The criteria, as I see it, should be the actual girl's attributes/character rather then race.

For the sake of argument, let's say "looks" and "character" are the same. Why would you bother about "race"? (and of course "character" is never the same).

Because I want my kids to look like me. I also want them to be able to fully identify themselves with and be accepted among a genetically similar group to themselves later in life.

Understood
In that case filter based on skin color, and their family skin color. You might find a "light skinned" girl, but if her family has darker skin, you might get that "identification" issue.

I am mixed race. My wife is mixed race. My kid is mixed race. Neither my wife or myself have trouble identifying with ourselves. There is also a very high chance that you will look like one of your parents, not both, even if you are not mixed race. Kids also have a habit of skipping a generation and looking and acting like their grandparents. This is very true for my son, who looks and acts like both his grandfathers, who are very different races.

Kids who have trouble identifying are more likely dealing with other issues and see race as the easy escape into victimhood.
01-04-2019 01:32 PM
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Post: #60
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
(12-31-2018 10:42 AM)redbeard Wrote:  I can't remember where it was posted (here, CH, or Gavin McInnes?) but someone once said that after a year of dating, women start to resent you if you don't marry them. They know that the clock's ticking, and every minute given to you is one she can't spend finding a suitable husband.

.....
Two and a half years into a relationship, you should know if you want to marry her. No excuses. Women know and understand this, especially if you're living together:
.....
Let this be a lesson to all the men out there. If you aren't serious about marrying her, get out.

About 10 years ago, in my mid-twenties, a female friend who was in a four year LTR tried to shame me for discussing relationships when I had never been in a really long one like hers. I said if I'd been with a woman for more than a year, I'd definitely have known that I'd marry her, and if I hadn't wanted to, I would have already broken up with her. She immediately went to question her LTR boyfriend and they broke up shortly after. I stuck with my principle, because I screened extremely hard for a wife, for I generally did not like living with a woman at all. It's not so much that I don't want to waste her time, it's primarily because I do not want to waste mine. I'd rather move on and find more women. I knew that I was going to marry my wife before the first year was even up, and so did she.

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01-04-2019 10:42 PM
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Post: #61
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
(01-04-2019 10:42 PM)StrikeBack Wrote:  
(12-31-2018 10:42 AM)redbeard Wrote:  I can't remember where it was posted (here, CH, or Gavin McInnes?) but someone once said that after a year of dating, women start to resent you if you don't marry them. They know that the clock's ticking, and every minute given to you is one she can't spend finding a suitable husband.

.....
Two and a half years into a relationship, you should know if you want to marry her. No excuses. Women know and understand this, especially if you're living together:
.....
Let this be a lesson to all the men out there. If you aren't serious about marrying her, get out.

About 10 years ago, in my mid-twenties, a female friend who was in a four year LTR tried to shame me for discussing relationships when I had never been in a really long one like hers. I said if I'd been with a woman for more than a year, I'd definitely have known that I'd marry her, and if I hadn't wanted to, I would have already broken up with her. She immediately went to question her LTR boyfriend and they broke up shortly after. I stuck with my principle, because I screened extremely hard for a wife, for I generally did not like living with a woman at all. It's not so much that I don't want to waste her time, it's primarily because I do not want to waste mine. I'd rather move on and find more women. I knew that I was going to marry my wife before the first year was even up, and so did she.

Absolutely true. But you should obviously stick it out a few more years before marriage in "don't fuck it up" mode. Feelings can change after a year easily, but your logic on her value always stays strong.

"I can't remember where it was posted (here, CH, or Gavin McInnes?) but someone once said that after a year of dating, women start to resent you if you don't marry them. They know that the clock's ticking, and every minute given to you is one she can't spend finding a suitable husband.

If that's true, then whoever said that isn't dating young enough girls. A girl is not going to want to think about marriage until she's at least 22 (end of college age.). I haven't seen a marriage at 22 in my life, even with living in five different US States. I don't think I've even seen mid twenties, even with high school relationships. The earliest women I knew were 26 or so.

But, I have seen relationships break up after 6+ years with no marriage. If you date that long without putting a kid in her, her pussy might think that you're shooting blanks.
01-05-2019 02:50 AM
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Post: #62
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
Pretty sure the LTR and I just broke it off.

We've been talking about getting married, but she's had some troubles the last couple winters, worrying to excess. It was hard to deal with, and finally this last few weeks so boiled over several times in a row. Like, "mental health issue" boiling over.

We finally had a talk about it yesterday that ended in her agreeing to go to couples counseling, but then she started making excuses for why it would be hard like she was going to try to back out. Today, when she came downstairs to start the whole "what do you want to get out of counseling" talk, I had to explain that if she wanted to get married, we needed to resolve the anxiety and angry outbursts before anything else could ever hope to move.

Telling her we were going to have to stop the angry outbursts was met with an angry outburst. 30 straight minutes of screaming. Some of her language implied she's really upset because she knows she can't or doesn't want to control the anger.

Could not get a word in edgewise, did not get a word in edgewise. Not an argument, just her losing her mind. Mostly just watched, mesmerized, while the recorder ran on my phone.

I left telling her I'd get some boxes for my stuff tomorrow.

I guess I'm going to have to go to Italy alone, poor me.

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01-07-2019 07:22 PM
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Post: #63
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
As a 22 year old, is this something silly to even be thinking about this early on? What should be my approach to this while in university? Keep an eye out for prospects?
01-11-2019 11:42 PM
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RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
(01-11-2019 11:42 PM)GibsMeDat Wrote:  As a 22 year old, is this something silly to even be thinking about this early on? What should be my approach to this while in university? Keep an eye out for prospects?

Their is a lot of advise going on for men at 20s.
As per LTR - less recommended. You should acquire more experience with girls. Does not mean a TOTAL NO, but you should aim at building yourself as a man.
If you do across a prospect, you may go for it.

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01-12-2019 05:49 AM
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Post: #65
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
I'm guessing the rest of this thread was lost...

I know there are at least a few guys here who have married girl (from other countries) who are around eighteen and 10+ years younger than them.

It seems that marrying a young girl will often present some extra challenged and maybe reduce others.

How would you weigh the pros and cos?
02-01-2019 03:17 AM
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Post: #66
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
This is a good question. Interested to hear some of your experiences gentlemen.

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02-01-2019 07:45 AM
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Post: #67
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
This was a great thread, and yes I am pretty sure a lot was lost.

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02-01-2019 08:11 AM
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Post: #68
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
(02-01-2019 03:17 AM)gework Wrote:  I'm guessing the rest of this thread was lost...

I know there are at least a few guys here who have married girl (from other countries) who are around eighteen and 10+ years younger than them.

It seems that marrying a young girl will often present some extra challenged and maybe reduce others.

How would you weigh the pros and cos?

So my racist Armenian friend, do you prefer a stripper/prostitute wife for a LTR from Venezuela/Colombia, Thailand or Kenya? She will have a high notch count, maybe in the 100's or even 1000's, if you can handle it.
02-01-2019 08:43 AM
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Post: #69
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
(02-01-2019 03:17 AM)gework Wrote:  I'm guessing the rest of this thread was lost...

I know there are at least a few guys here who have married girl (from other countries) who are around eighteen and 10+ years younger than them.

It seems that marrying a young girl will often present some extra challenged and maybe reduce others.

How would you weigh the pros and cos?

There is no con in marrying a young girl that doesn't also exist in an older woman. Older is never better. Obviously no two women are exactly the same except for age, so you'll have to weigh up different things, but never pass up on a promising young girl just because of her age. It's way easier to teach her to be better for you, than an older version of her.

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02-01-2019 06:51 PM
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NoMoreTO Offline
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Post: #70
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
I agree with an advantage of a younger girl being your ability to influence her. This along with her family values are the key.
- If a young woman wants to marry, have kids, is mature for her age, you could do very well. Girls like this usually come from good families.

A girl closer to your age is more relatable, and more mature, but that gap doesn't close as you won't have as much influence on her. You'd have to accept her as she is, hopefully she had a couple of long term relationships that didn't work out vs. years on the singles circuit getting drunk with her girlfriends.

“Where the danger is, so grows the saving element.” ~ German poet Hoelderlin
02-01-2019 09:02 PM
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njimko22
StrikeBack Offline
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Post: #71
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
An older woman close to my age (I'm 36) has never had anything remotely close to the life I've had as a man, and she never will. There is no guarantee that she is more mature either, in the areas that matter. Think about the whole idea (a woman being relatable) for a minute, does it sound like anything useful you want to have in your life? I have male friends my age for that already. In fact, it's a lot more fun to teach a young innocent girl about life with your comparably much greater wealth of knowledge and experience, and her childlike nature will make you laugh and feel young.

StrikeBack's Wife School
02-01-2019 09:15 PM
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BoiBoi, Incubus, Leonard D Neubache, njimko22, the.king, gework, palandi
BassPlayaYo Offline
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Post: #72
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
Marriage is a legal contract that favors women. Why would a man sign on the dotted line?
02-04-2019 10:37 AM
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Ski pro Offline
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Post: #73
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
(01-07-2019 07:22 PM)Jetset Wrote:  Pretty sure the LTR and I just broke it off.

We've been talking about getting married, but she's had some troubles the last couple winters, worrying to excess. It was hard to deal with, and finally this last few weeks so boiled over several times in a row. Like, "mental health issue" boiling over.

We finally had a talk about it yesterday that ended in her agreeing to go to couples counseling, but then she started making excuses for why it would be hard like she was going to try to back out. Today, when she came downstairs to start the whole "what do you want to get out of counseling" talk, I had to explain that if she wanted to get married, we needed to resolve the anxiety and angry outbursts before anything else could ever hope to move.

Telling her we were going to have to stop the angry outbursts was met with an angry outburst. 30 straight minutes of screaming. Some of her language implied she's really upset because she knows she can't or doesn't want to control the anger.

Could not get a word in edgewise, did not get a word in edgewise. Not an argument, just her losing her mind. Mostly just watched, mesmerized, while the recorder ran on my phone.

I left telling her I'd get some boxes for my stuff tomorrow.

I guess I'm going to have to go to Italy alone, poor me.

Sounds like you’re better off out of it. Her problems don’t have to be your problems.

Mrs SP is having a hard time of it lately with her business but she’s still very pleasant most of the time.

As someone above wrote, for the long term, personality is key.

P.s. once women decide it’s done they move on very fast. You’re dead to her I expect and that’s why she sees no point in counseling. I remember this vividly from my divorce.
(This post was last modified: 02-04-2019 03:52 PM by Ski pro.)
02-04-2019 03:50 PM
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GibsMeDat Offline
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Post: #74
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
All my female friends (even those who claim to be "Trad") tell me about the short term romances or signs of interest that they get from men at work. So when looking for an LTR, beware of how her work situation is. If she stays at home, she better have something to do as well. Beware of career women.
02-10-2019 10:28 PM
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Leonard D Neubache Offline
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Post: #75
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
(02-04-2019 10:37 AM)BassPlayaYo Wrote:  Marriage is a legal contract that favors women. Why would a man sign on the dotted line?

Infer marriage = mutual bloodsworn commitment to lifetime relationship before man and God.

If you don't want the state involved then that's perfectly understandable. Balance the legal pros and cons separately to the other stuff.

The public will judge a man by what he lifts, but those close to him will judge him by what he carries.
02-11-2019 12:29 AM
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