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LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
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No More Mr. Soy Boy Offline
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Post: #101
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
(03-12-2019 06:50 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  Whining to a woman to text you more, reply to your texts and send you "goodnight" messages is beta.

Shes not sending them because she lost attraction (studying, busy and you getting beta on her)

Best thing to do is not ask for messages, reply less and with greater gaps than her, and game other women.

No, I didn't specifically beg her for a "goodnight". I just texted her that since she hadn't replied I was unable to bring her on a trip for her birthday that we had talked about because the tickets were now gone, that I need her in order to book.
(This post was last modified: 03-12-2019 07:06 PM by No More Mr. Soy Boy.)
03-12-2019 06:57 PM
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jcardial Offline
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Post: #102
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
(03-12-2019 06:57 PM)No More Mr. Soy Boy Wrote:  
(03-12-2019 06:50 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  Whining to a woman to text you more, reply to your texts and send you "goodnight" messages is beta.

Shes not sending them because she lost attraction (studying, busy and you getting beta on her)

Best thing to do is not ask for messages, reply less and with greater gaps than her, and game other women.

No, I didn't specifically beg her for a "goodnight".

I just texted her that since she hadn't replied I was unable to bring her on a trip for her birthday that we had talked about because the tickets were now gone, that I need her in order to book.

It does sound like she's ignoring you due to a significant decrease in interest and may just be sabotaging things slowly and passively to avoid the confrontation of breaking up. It's always tough to say on limited info, but my general impression is you may have gotten too needy. We've all been there when we were young so don't beat yourself up too much about it, but you have to be willing to pull back even when it is hard.

Being the one pushing to buy tickets for a trip doesn't sound at all like the right move given that it again makes you the one chasing. What was the argument about and how did it end?
03-12-2019 07:34 PM
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Post: #103
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
(03-12-2019 06:57 PM)No More Mr. Soy Boy Wrote:  
(03-12-2019 06:50 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  Whining to a woman to text you more, reply to your texts and send you "goodnight" messages is beta.

Shes not sending them because she lost attraction (studying, busy and you getting beta on her)

Best thing to do is not ask for messages, reply less and with greater gaps than her, and game other women.

No, I didn't specifically beg her for a "goodnight". I just texted her that since she hadn't replied I was unable to bring her on a trip for her birthday that we had talked about because the tickets were now gone, that I need her in order to book.

She's ignoring you and youre writing lengthy posts about the minutiae of your "relationship" dynamics.







Guess who cares more?
Guess who's got the power ?

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03-12-2019 08:26 PM
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No More Mr. Soy Boy Offline
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Post: #104
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
^ Yes, exactly. And that's why I have to cut it off with her. If she comes begging for me later, then great but I sense I will just lose self-respect if I stay with her.

But it's strange how I had the power in this up until that argument we had, then everything just seemed to change. And after two ignoring weeks with cold behavior, I lost my frame. And now it's like everything I've ever done before doesn't matter at all. She can not forgive me for one game mistake meanwhile I've overlooked several flaws with her. Strange how that is but it's just to make sure I learn something and head back into the game.
(This post was last modified: 03-12-2019 08:43 PM by No More Mr. Soy Boy.)
03-12-2019 08:41 PM
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jcardial Offline
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Post: #105
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
(03-12-2019 08:41 PM)No More Mr. Soy Boy Wrote:  ^ Yes, exactly. And that's why I have to cut it off with her. If she comes begging for me later, then great but I sense I will just lose self-respect if I stay with her.

But it's strange how I had the power in this up until that argument we had, then everything just seemed to change. And after two ignoring weeks with cold behavior, I lost my frame. And now it's like everything I've ever done before doesn't matter at all. She can not forgive me for one game mistake meanwhile I've overlooked several flaws with her. Strange how that is but it's just to make sure I learn something and head back into the game.

If a girl you were dating started to get unacceptably fat, would it matter that she had done tons of favors or acted super cool throughout the relationship? It is much easier to destroy attraction than it is to build it.

The flawed mentality that you should have brownie points saved up for being/doing xyz to offset your most recent missteps is a big clue that it was very unlikely "one game mistake." Planning a trip while she is effectively unresponsive requires a certain degree of game obliviousness that has likely reared its head on several other occasions.

To be fair, you're still debating about cutting her off when she has pretty clearly already cut you off. To optimally improve it is important to consider and take responsibility for all of your mistakes, rather than just chalking this up to a single misstep that she is just callous to not forgive.
03-12-2019 11:45 PM
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Slam Offline
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Post: #106
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
No More Mr. Soy Boy Wrote:She also wrote this "I know I can't expect you to tolerate it"

Her BEHAVIOR says she expects your tolerating it to continue. So she loses respect for you.

I think she is trying to break up with you, but doesn't want to hurt you, so she is giving you an excuse to break it off.
03-13-2019 12:16 AM
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Leonard D Neubache Offline
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Post: #107
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
God alone knows how you guys manage relationships in the age of perpetual messaging. I'd sooner move to a 3rd world country than go through that shit. I've barely been able to tolerate carrying a mobile since they became affordable for common schmucks and that's going back a long way now.

Are there guys on the forum keeping interest without having to constantly text these hamsters? I'm not going to be that old guy who says "just do what I did back when it worked" so I'm genuinely interested to know if there are dudes out there maintaining something close to radio silence and still keeping girls on the hook.

The public will judge a man by what he lifts, but those close to him will judge him by what he carries.
03-13-2019 12:49 AM
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Post: #108
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
(03-13-2019 12:49 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  I'd sooner move to a 3rd world country than go through that shit.

Sorry to break it to you, but 3rd world countries have caught onto mobile use. There's no escape from it now.
03-13-2019 01:09 AM
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Post: #109
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
(03-13-2019 12:49 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  Are there guys on the forum keeping interest without having to constantly text these hamsters? I'm not going to be that old guy who says "just do what I did back when it worked" so I'm genuinely interested to know if there are dudes out there maintaining something close to radio silence and still keeping girls on the hook.

I started off thinking like you, it was all a pain in the arse and I couldn't be arsed with it all.

But lately I've seen the upside of texting, if you use it to your advantage, don't fall into Beta habits.

Imagine being able to send messages, comfort, make arrangements without getting on the phone and having to endure long inane conversations...
03-13-2019 03:53 AM
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Post: #110
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
Fellas, just because you have a phone doesn't mean its glued to your eyeballs.

Set a precedent right away that you answer texts only between, say 12 and 1pm and again maybe at 5 for a bit or perhaps a bit more in the evenings. Trust me, women get the routine very quickly. They stare at time stamps and 'read' feedback all the damn time.

If they call, keep it very business like. If they have a problem, get down to it. Solve it. Get off.

The trouble many men have is that their women see them on their phones like a teenage girl already so they assume they can always reach you like some emotional tampon. You are not their girlfriend or gay BFF. You do things. You don't waste time.
03-13-2019 01:41 PM
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No More Mr. Soy Boy Offline
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Post: #111
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
(03-12-2019 11:45 PM)jcardial Wrote:  To be fair, you're still debating about cutting her off when she has pretty clearly already cut you off. To optimally improve it is important to consider and take responsibility for all of your mistakes, rather than just chalking this up to a single misstep that she is just callous to not forgive.

I would actually agree with you but this is what happened...

So I had prepared myself to break things up with her today and when I saw her I told her that I expected better communication and thought it had been disrespectful.

She then burst into tears and said she hadn't fully realized until now that she had been disrespectful and had ignored me and admitted she would have never had been fine with this herself.

Then we went on talking for about two hours while she just went on crying and apologizing and said her studies are just so hard at the moment and it's so stressful. I saw that she wasn't her usual self.

That made me want to put the guard down a bit and she went on crying and said she couldn't understand how lucky she was to find a guy like me who wouldn't leave her for this and had been so understanding and always been supportive of her. And how much she loved me and promise to better herself because she would never want to lose me.

So we are on good terms again! It was strange cause I would agree with everyone else here that I probably overreacted a bit and acted like a beta and I had expected her to just be cold as fuck to me and let me go like air (I've experienced that).

I first started reading bits about game already back in 2011 but women still never stop to confuse me.
(This post was last modified: 03-13-2019 05:15 PM by No More Mr. Soy Boy.)
03-13-2019 05:13 PM
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Post: #112
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
^ Not so fast, hoss. You said she is not her usual self.

Why?

Think long and hard about that. It can’t be just because of her studies.
03-13-2019 07:34 PM
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Post: #113
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
I thought about making a new post but this seems like the a good place to put it, maybe some folks can offer some advice. I'll try to keep it short and sweet:

Me: 28
Her: 24

Started out pretty casual while I had a rotation of 3 girls but over time turned into serious LTR (she did Xmas with my fam, that kind of deal)

I could write a lot about how sick she is but I won't bore you guys with all that. Not the hottest girl I've ever been with, she is mostly "really cute" (to me there is a big difference between cute and hot) but takes good care of herself and has "long term potential" in terms of aging well. Looks aside, she brings a lot to the table in terms of a consistent and good personality, happy gene, single digit notch count, low drama, smart, JQ-aware, pretty RP for a girl, awesome cook, etc. She told me that she loved me a few days ago. I wasn't sure how to react, I told her I appreciated it and have "a lot of love" for her but didn't say it back.

-I know I don't want to get married on paper. Long-term cohabitation I could potentially see myself doing at some point.
-I still have a lot of growing and figuring things out to do. I haven't gotten my career on track yet.
-Part of me wants to be a savage in the sexual jungle (I have a notch count of 50, I have been getting better at game and pulling better quality girls every year I've been in it), another part of me sees the shit and frustration the sexual marketplace brings (from reading the "what should I text next" thread among others.

She really is a quality human, looks great naked, sex is still great after 1.5 years and she puts in effort to satisfy me but I do feel a craving for variety a lot of the time. I have gotten BJ's and stuff from other girls but haven't had full on sex with another chick since we've gotten serious. From reading this forum and others and generally being RP about politics and society I do think a collapse/rough shit/hard times are coming in my lifetime so I also feel like maybe I should hedge my bets and focus on important shit instead of banging sluts since I do believe she is a "good one" that I hear so many guys lamenting that they can't find. But on a primal level I still want to have epic new sexual experiences with random girls. I don't mean to come across as conceited but because of my looks and some other stuff I have going for me I have a lot of potential to slay quality as I enter my prime and I feel that I'm in the game on an easier level than some guys I know that struggle with girls, hopefully this makes sense without making me sound like a tool (tbh I am kind of a tool but whatever).

Enough hamstering. TL;DR
-I'm young (28)
-I still have a lot of growing and figuring things out to do
-I've found a cute girl that has the qualities of a solid long term partner
-I'm divided on staying in this relationship and potentially building something with it vs. being on my own and banging sluts. I enjoy gaming girls and have a lot of potential to pull quality for a while as long as I take care of myself. I have turned down opportunities for sex because I don't want to deal with the guilt of cheating and mostly the paranoia of getting caught
-she told me she loved me a few days ago which got me thinking harder about this duality I am feeling.

Figured I'd post it here to see if any older chaps or anyone else could offer any perspective. Thanks in advance
03-13-2019 09:15 PM
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jcardial Offline
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Post: #114
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
(03-13-2019 05:13 PM)No More Mr. Soy Boy Wrote:  
(03-12-2019 11:45 PM)jcardial Wrote:  To be fair, you're still debating about cutting her off when she has pretty clearly already cut you off. To optimally improve it is important to consider and take responsibility for all of your mistakes, rather than just chalking this up to a single misstep that she is just callous to not forgive.

I would actually agree with you but this is what happened...

So I had prepared myself to break things up with her today and when I saw her I told her that I expected better communication and thought it had been disrespectful.

She then burst into tears and said she hadn't fully realized until now that she had been disrespectful and had ignored me and admitted she would have never had been fine with this herself.

Then we went on talking for about two hours while she just went on crying and apologizing and said her studies are just so hard at the moment and it's so stressful. I saw that she wasn't her usual self.

That made me want to put the guard down a bit and she went on crying and said she couldn't understand how lucky she was to find a guy like me who wouldn't leave her for this and had been so understanding and always been supportive of her. And how much she loved me and promise to better herself because she would never want to lose me.

So we are on good terms again! It was strange cause I would agree with everyone else here that I probably overreacted a bit and acted like a beta and I had expected her to just be cold as fuck to me and let me go like air (I've experienced that).

I first started reading bits about game already back in 2011 but women still never stop to confuse me.

As far as I can tell she openly admitted to being grateful that she can treat you like crap and doesn't have to worry about you leaving. I will be surprised if she doesn't revert to old ways sooner than later. This doesn't sound like a healthy dynamic.

There certainly could be other explanations as to why she was distancing herself to that degree. Stress from school alone doesn't suffice to explain the degree of withdrawal. She may have been pursuing another guy and it fell through and now she is needy for validation again. It's kind of hard to say since the info you provided is somewhat nebulous.
03-13-2019 10:48 PM
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Post: #115
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
(03-13-2019 07:34 PM)CleanSlate Wrote:  ^ Not so fast, hoss. You said she is not her usual self.

Why?

Think long and hard about that. It can’t be just because of her studies.

Yeahhh my instinct is saying there is something more to this.. ie - she has done something she 'regrets'
03-13-2019 11:03 PM
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Post: #116
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
(03-13-2019 11:03 PM)big poppa Wrote:  
(03-13-2019 07:34 PM)CleanSlate Wrote:  ^ Not so fast, hoss. You said she is not her usual self.

Why?

Think long and hard about that. It can’t be just because of her studies.

Yeahhh my instinct is saying there is something more to this.. ie - she has done something she 'regrets'

Yeah, girls don't cry all day because of being treated so well, or because she was cold to you, or that she is afraid you will break up with her.

Women cry like that because they are afraid of getting caught, have been caught, or don't want to get caught.
03-14-2019 12:11 AM
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Post: #117
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
Be careful NMMSB. You were too needy, and she gave you another chance. Don't get too comfortable. I wouldn't be too surprised if she has more of these tests in the future.

some guys aren't built to players, some aren't built for LTR's, some are built for both. -Katotic
03-14-2019 12:22 AM
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Post: #118
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
BC- This girl is at a point where she has 5-10 childbearing years left. She can hear the clock ticking.

If she is happy not having kids then continue on this track. But you are going to have to deal with a "What are We" conversation in the next 3 months, count on it.

Are you where you want to be in your career? If she is and you are not then the disparity in Career dedication does pose a problem. You want to work harder and longer wile she wants "family time" or she quits growing personally and professionally.

Notches for the sake of notches become moot after a point. I think an occasional "Strange" while keeping the primary lover is a good personal check in that our variety meter is being met. But with the primary lover, you need to fill some emotional roles too. It just comes with the territory.
03-14-2019 12:44 PM
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Post: #119
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
(03-13-2019 09:15 PM)BlastbeatCasanova Wrote:  Enough hamstering. TL;DR
-I'm young (28)
-I still have a lot of growing and figuring things out to do
-I've found a cute girl that has the qualities of a solid long term partner
-I'm divided on staying in this relationship and potentially building something with it vs. being on my own and banging sluts. I enjoy gaming girls and have a lot of potential to pull quality for a while as long as I take care of myself. I have turned down opportunities for sex because I don't want to deal with the guilt of cheating and mostly the paranoia of getting caught
-she told me she loved me a few days ago which got me thinking harder about this duality I am feeling.

Figured I'd post it here to see if any older chaps or anyone else could offer any perspective. Thanks in advance

I would say knock her up and lock her down if she is such a good hearted positive woman, but It doesn't sound like you're ready to leave the Game and settle down to me. Everyone could advise you to delete all the whores from your phone and settle down with this good girl, but if you still believe you are leaving whores on the table and haven't had your fill of playing the field, then it would be pointless for you to settle down.

Your options are

1.) Commit to this woman. Though you will be plagued with regrets of all the other women you are missing out on constantly, like when you're in the gym, at the grocery store, or out with her and still scanning the local talent behind her back begrudgingly.

2.) Tell her you're committed to her, while banging whores on the sly. The riskiest option, and almost certainly will fuck up your relationship with her. Either she will catch you cheating, or you will slip up spinning plates, or the relationship will just wither and die because you are divided internally.

3.) Be honest with her, and say you're not ready to settle down right now and are still not sure if you want kids/marriage...and see how she responds. If she tries to pressure you into it, it will certainly push you away. Most likely she will say she wants to keep things casual, and become increasingly controlling, curious or crazy that you won't submit to her, and it will probably keep increasing incrementally until the Wall approaches or until you decide to wife her or dump her.

Keep in mind, this duality you are feeling, is felt by pretty much every man alive who is married or in a LTR. It's the eternal question, is the grass greener on the other side of the fence or not? Is a bird in the hand worth two in the bush? And as your value grows into your 30s you will constantly be re-evaluating yourself and wondering...is this chick the best I can do? You will eventually get to a point where a low-drama, cool woman with average 7-8 looks is worth a lot more than any HB9 club slut of the day who will make your life a nightmare, but I don't know if you are at that point yet or when that might happen. Or who knows, maybe that perfect 10 unicorn is still out there waiting to be discovered. That's only something you can decide for yourself based on the value this woman brings and your own self-perceived value.
(This post was last modified: 03-14-2019 03:02 PM by DamienCasanova.)
03-14-2019 02:52 PM
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Post: #120
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
(03-13-2019 09:15 PM)BlastbeatCasanova Wrote:  I thought about making a new post but this seems like the a good place to put it, maybe some folks can offer some advice. I'll try to keep it short and sweet:

Me: 28
Her: 24

Started out pretty casual while I had a rotation of 3 girls but over time turned into serious LTR (she did Xmas with my fam, that kind of deal)

I could write a lot about how sick she is but I won't bore you guys with all that. noise noise noise noise noise noise noise noise noise noise noise noise noise noise noise noise noise noise noise noise noise noise noise noise JQ-aware noise noise noise noise noise noise noise noise noise noise noise noise noise noise noise noise noise noise noise noise noise noise noise noise noise

Gold Ring

[Image: lots-of-babies.jpg]

Just kidding.

At 50 notches you're pushing your ability to come away from the ledge and properly bond with a woman. Considering that you're with someone who ticks so many boxes and you don't feel intensely drawn to commit indicates that you're in danger of gaining the thousand cunt stare.

The pain you feel in your loins at the need to bed a few more women will pale in comparison to the pain you feel trying to find a girl with these qualities to settle down with 5 years from now.

There is no great answer to your dilemma but I strongly suggest you find it in yourself to take a shot at building a future and a family with this girl if you honestly think you can manage it. You have no idea how rare girls like that are, and they get a fucking shitload rarer when you hit 30+.

The public will judge a man by what he lifts, but those close to him will judge him by what he carries.
(This post was last modified: 03-15-2019 06:16 AM by Leonard D Neubache.)
03-15-2019 06:15 AM
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Post: #121
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
@DamienCasanova + @Leonard D Neubache

Thanks guys, I appreciate it
03-15-2019 10:11 PM
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Post: #122
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
Quote:There is no great answer to your dilemma but I strongly suggest you find it in yourself to take a shot at building a future and a family with this girl if you honestly think you can manage it. You have no idea how rare girls like that are, and they get a fucking shitload rarer when you hit 30+.

Getting married young because you're afraid of not finding someone better when you're older is probably the dumbest mistake you can make as a man. I can attest, I got married at 26. I've certainly had several girlfriends who came close to checking all of my boxes, I still ended it because I wasn't ready.

I'm 36, happily divorced. 28 is usually a big turning point in your life to get better at game and life, don't waste it married. 50 notches isn't a big deal. No married guy I knows is happy, they're all tired, bossed around, bored, and live vicariously through my sexual adventures. The younger the married guy, the more this is true. 45 and getting married to a young thing is not a bad position to be in. You want to be that guy. Fear should never be a motivator for settling down.

There are plenty of good women who cook, are drama free, ect -- I've dated several. Go to church you'll find them. Move to the south, they're around. They're everywhere, but if you're only dating 22 yo tinder thots - of course, they seem rare.

There's no such thing as the "thousand cunt stare"... A man's notch count doesn't reduce his ability to love, it only enhances it because he knows better. Also, ditch your list of qualities. Lists change as you get older and more experienced. The kind of women i woulda settled down with at 26 has no resemblance to what I like today.
(This post was last modified: 03-16-2019 04:14 PM by FullThrottleTX.)
03-16-2019 04:13 PM
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Leonard D Neubache Offline
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Post: #123
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
Precisely the same dogma that feminists use when they tell women "you go girl, discover yourself, don't settle until you're ready".

Being 55 years old playing with a 10 year old son and his 5 year old brother.

Having your son follow in your footsteps and you die of old age long before ever becoming a grandfather.

Laugh3

Thousands of generations before you operated in a family unit where a man became a father by 20 and a grandfather by 40. "Settle down when you're 45" is post-modern trash that's every bit as ridiculous as feminist nonsense surrounding having kids in your mid-30's or later.

It's got nothing to do with fear. Just common sense which admittedly is not as common as it used to be.

The public will judge a man by what he lifts, but those close to him will judge him by what he carries.
(This post was last modified: 03-17-2019 09:22 AM by Leonard D Neubache.)
03-17-2019 09:18 AM
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NoMoreTO Offline
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Post: #124
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
It is very very difficult to find a decent woman with values and loyalty in this day in age. That plus a high quality man wants someone physically beautiful, charming, and intelligent. As a late 30s guy it is frustrating not having 4 kids by now, but how many women would actually have 4 kids this day in age. Even if you got married with that intent she can change her tune whenever she wants and you have no leverage because of modern divorce law.

I have recently came across a very "good girl", who is a natural follower, good values, in her feminine. Problem is she is very average in terms of beauty (6), and I am used to above average (8 for a gf). It's painful to say but we might have to learn to have less attractive wives in order to have solid families and loyalty. Still, in all honesty, I can't fucking do it. It's hard to go down a notch or two in who you are with. I don't think its healthy to marry a woman you don't think is on your level. (To be clear I mean in terms of value, not that she should make decisions)
(This post was last modified: 03-17-2019 09:47 AM by NoMoreTO.)
03-17-2019 09:45 AM
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Post: #125
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
What you're describing is exactly the same thing modern women are going through.

They can find a lot of 8's to fuck them casually but none of those 8's are going to settle down with them. Hell, when they decide to settle down they decide they want a 9 as insurance against the ravages of father time. I read this a lot with the genders reversed here. Guys think that because they learned game and now they're fucking 8s casually that they deserve an 8 for marriage.

I'm not shitting on you when I say that most guys are deluded about their real market value.
Looks.
Education.
Class.
Assets.
Family connections.
Tribal structures.
Celebrity.
Income.
Health.
Relevant skillsets.

Rank yourself out of 10 on each of these. Dead-ass dudes can run game and fuck models. That doesn't mean they're entitled to pick a wife out of a Victoria's Secret catalog any more than your own personal slump-buster is entitled to get a ring out of you.

Stop watching TV and movies. Stop going to bars and strip-clubs. Do no-fap for a month and take another look at that 6. If your dick still doesn't move then you're in for trouble. This is why excessive notch-chasing is dangerous. Once you learn how to fuck 8's it really is hard to go back to 6's, and 99% of good looking girls have princess syndrome which immediately rules them out of contention for LTRs.

If you want the looks AND the feminine virtue then you might need to start looking elsewhere. From what I hear Canada is almost as bad as Australia for finding a loyal woman who isn't plain as fuck.

The public will judge a man by what he lifts, but those close to him will judge him by what he carries.
(This post was last modified: 03-17-2019 11:12 AM by Leonard D Neubache.)
03-17-2019 11:11 AM
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