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LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
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El Padrone Offline
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Post: #26
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
I can't now but someone should reach out to Leonard to post the datasheet that got the thread rolling.
10-17-2018 01:55 PM
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PapayaTapper Away
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Post: #27
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
Reposting this here as the original thread got lost in the reorganization.

PapayaTapper (08-24-2015 12:14 AM)' Wrote:  One quality I think is essential for any girl to have as a LTR candidate is what I call "the happy gene". Is her natural equilibrium an upbeat / happy /laughs easily kind of demeanor ? Or is she prone to states of moroseness/crabbiness or acerbity that needs to be actively entertained/stimulated into being "happy"?

Before I knew better I exhausted a lot of time, money and energy on "sourpussy" because they were hot. I spent 5 years and I dont know how much money on one because she was smoking (tall blond bikini/ lingerie model) before I had enough and pulled the plug

If a girl doesn't have that "happy gene"...she's not long for my world anymore. If there was only piece of advice I could give a guy thinking about wifeing up,,,make sure she has that quality

Shout out to Built To Fade for steering me to the archived thread

_______________________________________
- Does She Have The "Happy Gene" ?
-Inversion Therapy
-Let's lead by example


"Leap, and the net will appear". John Burroughs

"The big question is whether you are going to be able to say a hearty yes to your adventure."
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(This post was last modified: 10-19-2018 08:49 AM by PapayaTapper.)
10-19-2018 08:15 AM
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tr1cky Offline
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Post: #28
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
Completely agree with only dating girls with the "happy gene". To be more specific its not a happy gene but rather being low in the trait called neuroticism. For an LTR you want to find a woman with lower levels of neuroticism. The only problem with this is neurotic is erotic lol. There is a reason crazy chicks fuck the best.
10-19-2018 08:27 AM
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Incubus Offline
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Post: #29
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
Word of caution on the Happy Gene
I married one that I thought was happy and easy going ...and after the happy wife had the number of kids she wanted she turned to the sexless biotch from hell.

This has happened to a number of guys I know and part of the problem is babies/hormones and partly how women's feel about themselves after the babies (usually feel fat and unlovable)

If there was a sign or clue that I should of picked up on with my "happy' girlfriend turned wife...it would be her period which changed her mood while dating but I dismissed it at that time....but when married that period ...lasted all month long.
Too me a chick that wants to do "other sex things" while on her period along with being emotionally upbeat is a good bet for LTR or marriage

I had a LTR with a westernized Chinese girlfriend that was sweet as pumpkin pie... and had no issue pulling the plug out and banging away 365 days a year to keep her man happy (and herself)

............LIFE isn't a DRESS REHEARSAL.........
10-19-2018 01:00 PM
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Leonard D Neubache Offline
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Post: #30
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
We lost the happy gene thread?

[Image: dUGC0IP.gif?noredirect]

I never bother to save the stuff I post. I always figured it was safer here than on my shitty laptop. Dredging up the original datasheet from memory is not likely either since I've become considerably more cynical in the meanwhile and I doubt I could reproduce it.

These days I'm more of an "if it will be war, then let it come soon so my bros are still young enough to build a family in an unfucked society".

The public will judge a man by what he lifts, but those close to him will judge him by what he carries.
10-19-2018 11:19 PM
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ilostabet Offline
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Post: #31
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
Can you guys get more in-depth on what the 'happy gene' means? It sounds terrible to be honest.

Why would you want a girl to marry who is happy with anyone other than you? Meaning, she is not happy because she is with you, but because that's just her natural state. And not just that, but she is like that all the time. I can't think of something worse to be honest. I've experienced that, and generally they are not that intelligent, and it becomes annoying really quick once you pass the 'honeymoon' phase.

Unless I'm misunderstanding what it means, which is definitely possible, I tend to prefer girls that are not glitter and unicorns all the time. Someone who laughs at everything does not have a sense of humor, and someone who is happy all the time is probably mentally ill (or at the very least, extremely childish).

I think it's important in a marriage to be able to discuss serious things in a serious manner. And I'm not talking about paying bills and life strategies (that's up to me), I'm talking about having decent, intelligent conversations - discussing ideas. Never had that with previous girlfriends who were the 'happy' type - they would just get bored (and boring).

I've seen some people say here that you should leave that up to your friends, but I really enjoy being able to discuss interesting things with my wife.

Again, I might be reading this completely wrong.
10-21-2018 06:37 AM
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Built to Fade Offline
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Post: #32
Information RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
(10-19-2018 11:19 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  We lost the happy gene thread?
(10-19-2018 08:15 AM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  Reposting this here as the original thread got lost in the reorganization.

PapayaTapper (08-24-2015 12:14 AM)' Wrote:  One quality I think is essential for any girl to have as a LTR candidate is what I call "the happy gene" ...

Shout out to Built To Fade for steering me to the archived thread

> Here are the links to the archived thread "Is anyone here *happily* married?":

> Page 1: https://web.archive.org/web/201706240651...49934.html
> Page 2: https://web.archive.org/web/201706240651...age-2.html
> Page 3: https://web.archive.org/web/201706240651...age-3.html
> Page 4: https://web.archive.org/web/201706240651...age-4.html


(10-21-2018 06:37 AM)ilostabet Wrote:  Can you guys get more in-depth on what the 'happy gene' means?

[...]

Again, I might be reading this completely wrong.

It's important to understand the context of the thread leading to the "happy gene" post. You'll understand its meaning once you've read the archived thread.
_______________________________________________
"Searching through the lost and found." #131

(03-23-1983 09:19 PM)delete Wrote:  delete

"The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun. Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us. There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after."
10-21-2018 07:15 AM
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ilostabet Offline
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Post: #33
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
@BuiltToFade

thanks man.

Haven't gotten to the 'happy gene' part but already so many interesting posts.
10-21-2018 07:39 AM
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Post: #34
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
Friedrich Nietzsche in Twilight of the Idols, the part known as "SKIRMISHES OF AN UNTIMELY MAN" (39)

Quote:Witness modern marriage. All rationality has clearly vanished from modern marriage; yet that is no objection to marriage, but to modernity.

The rationality of marriage — that lay in the husband's sole juridical responsibility, which gave marriage a center of gravity, while today it limps on both legs.
The rationality of marriage — that lay in its indissolubility in principle, which lent it an accent that could be heard above the accident of feeling, passion, and what is merely momentary. It also lay in the family's responsibility for the choice of a spouse.
With the growing indulgence of love matches, the very foundation of marriage has been eliminated, that which alone makes an institution of it. Never, absolutely never, can an institution be founded on an idiosyncrasy; one cannot, as I have said, found marriage on "love" — it can be founded on the sex drive, on the property drive (wife and child as property), on the drive to dominate, which continually organizes for itself the smallest structure of domination, the family, and which needs children and heirs to hold fast — physiologically too — to an attained measure of power, influence, and wealth, in order to prepare for long-range tasks, for a solidarity of instinct between the centuries.
Marriage as an institution involves the affirmation of the largest and most enduring form of organization: when society cannot affirm itself as a whole, down to the most distant generations, then marriage has altogether no meaning. Modern marriage has lost its meaning — consequently one abolishes it.

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12-03-2018 12:54 AM
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Post: #35
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
(10-21-2018 06:37 AM)ilostabet Wrote:  Meaning, she is not happy because she is with you, but because that's just her natural state.

People who are only happy when other people make them happy are unstable, needy nightmares regardless of gender. Beware the woman who is not content without an appointed rescuer, because she will always be shopping for new problems to be rescued from, even if it just means demanding that you sacrifice your life to listen to her moan relentlessly. Ain't nobody got time for that.

Quote:Again, I might be reading this completely wrong.

I think you are. My read is that having the "happy gene" doesn't mean inappropriately shitting glitter, but rather being averse to acting like a miserable cow.

There's some old thing about eustress and distress. Both are stress, but they're subject almost entirely to individual perspective. One person can climb a mountain and be exhausted but amazed at their accomplishment, taking in the view. Their companion can climb the same mountain and just bitch about how hard it was and how they still have to hike back down.

That is a personality difference rather than an experiential one. Two people watching the same movie but interpreting the story completely differently.

"He always wanted to drift forever, but through the American Southwest."
12-03-2018 10:37 AM
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Jefferson Offline
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Post: #36
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
(10-19-2018 01:00 PM)Incubus Wrote:  Word of caution on the Happy Gene
I married one that I thought was happy and easy going ...and after the happy wife had the number of kids she wanted she turned to the sexless biotch from hell.

This has happened to a number of guys I know and part of the problem is babies/hormones and partly how women's feel about themselves after the babies (usually feel fat and unlovable)

If there was a sign or clue that I should of picked up on with my "happy' girlfriend turned wife...it would be her period which changed her mood while dating but I dismissed it at that time....but when married that period ...lasted all month long.
Too me a chick that wants to do "other sex things" while on her period along with being emotionally upbeat is a good bet for LTR or marriage

I had a LTR with a westernized Chinese girlfriend that was sweet as pumpkin pie... and had no issue pulling the plug out and banging away 365 days a year to keep her man happy (and herself)

This confirms my suspicion that the happy gene loses its potency as the years go past the 40 mark and children arrrive. It's a highly desirable and sensible selection trait, but unlikely to avoid shit tests, and occasional unhappiness.

Still, less drama than if she did not have it to start with.
12-03-2018 10:44 AM
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Built to Fade
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Post: #37
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
I see it in two ways:

The married woman with kids approached 40 and talks with her girlfriends about how stressed she is with family life, money and being tired all the time. She goes home, has an emotional and stressful whirlwind and when the kids are in bed and the house is clean she swells with love and pride as she watches the kids sleep. She falls asleep in 5 seconds to the smell of her husband beside her in total security.

The unmarried woman approaches 40 and talks with her girlfriends about how amazing her life is, which hot new restaurant she will be heading to with some new hot guy who is planning to take her on some hot new holiday. And "oh, look at this wine, I totally tried this at our girls Okanagan wine tour this summer!". She goes home, has an emotional and stressful couch session on instagram while half watching some Netflix drama. She drags herself to her cold bed later than she hoped and cuddles in to stare at the ceiling for an hour before getting 6 hours of fitful sleep.
12-03-2018 02:15 PM
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Post: #38
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
It was sad to see that the old thread get deleted. But I copied some parts of the good old posts into a document on my laptop when I first read here because I liked it. I don't really know who wrote which thing but here are some bits from the old thread you might find interesting too which relates to long term relationships.

General advice

Quote:The guys who choose to go this path should use the resources they have available to make the best of it because there will be many challenges
Many guys will choose to not go down this path. I may choose to not go down this path. There is nothing wrong with that but hopefully these guys can understand that what is best for them might not be what is best for everyone else.

Giving a promise and being ready to sacrifice and forgive. When you know your wife/ husband promises you that he/she will be with you until death... than REAL LOVE can develope, without fear of losing it.

Quote:You hold down what you are – standards that are realistic vs demands that are unrealistic.
It’s easier to change who you are instead of others’ perception of who you are.
We know what we do not want, but we do not know what we want.

When we are unaware of our own desirable traits in a partner, we are coerced by the ideals of others around us; our parents, peers and when competitive, our adversaries.

there are no quick fixes, or quick strategies. Only long-term strategies that are focused on yourself and not others.

You need to be the best version of yourself to attract what you want.
I invite every single man here to be introspectively harsh, honest about who he is, what he stands for, and more importantly, what he can offer to his desired woman/women.

All relationships are transactional.

What do you offer and is that good enough to land the woman that you want?

In my relationship, I demanded my girl be able to do the full 10 yards of cooking, cleaning, being trustworthy, all the usual checkboxes.

She reminds me of this directly and indirectly on a weekly basis. She calls it ‘blue jobs and pink jobs’.

Are you capable of protecting her? Supporting her emotionally (i.e. listening, not advising as I learnt the hard way)? Are you the man who complements (not compliments) the woman you want her to be; can you fix things, can you build things, can you solve problems, are you open to taking initiative and alleviating her of the decision making ability? Are you capable of challenging her to be the best person possible and is she willing to be that for you?

Does this sound tiring? If you are not this kind of person, it can be tiring. I was not due to my upbringing and of course, it was tedious. I am on top of it now, 3 years later thanks to a patient partner who ticked my boxes.

If you are a super hard douche who demands shit all day then you will only push people away. If you can be vulnerable and accept your shortcomings and work on them, that points to you being a team player.

This is the giver vs. taker separation.

You lead by example where you can and do not shy from responsibility. If I cannot do something, I learn how to.

This motivation comes from your partner being a good one and worth the effort. Of course, this is an investment in to yourself.

- Can you identify what makes you special?
- Can you admit your shortcomings and improve them to attract what you want instead of complaining what you do not want?
- Are you as attractive as you think? Is she pinging off this and your reality?
- Can you be the man in the relationship and get your way without demanding and affecting?
- Do you trust women, distrust women or accept them and ping/pong between both (trust women to be women)?
- Are you open to adapting who you are, by virtue of being around a high quality woman?
- Can you offer the confidence and resources to attract a woman for long term?
- Is your confidence internally derived based off your self-esteem or is it externally derived, from your resources, which may/may not be finite?
- Are you emotionally intact enough to handle mood swings and tidal waves of drama directed at you from time to time?
- Are you mature enough to accept this is the nature of women?
- Can you lead a relationship and have no problems with saying no, yes and being the decision maker?

Work on what you can and focus your energy congruent with your desires, beliefs and what you deserve.
LTRs also force you to take a cold, hard look at your own shortcomings as a person.

Be ready

Quote:Are you ready for a girlfriend? How are your finances, your job, your life in general? Are you stable and secure in your life, and yourself? Do you know yourself? Are you aware of your limitations, and what can possibly hurt your relationship?

What type of woman do you want? How will she add to your life? How will she help you hit your goals, and how will you accept her life into yours as well? Are you on a clear life path? If you don't, any women, especially a strong willed one, will easily knock you off your life path, or help define yours, and greatly alter the path of your life. Think of the poor kid in the thread who was trying to decide to leave his home in Michigan, to follow his girlfriend to South Carolina. His entire lifes purpose was now being defined by a little girlfriend. PATHETIC. But I am guilty of this too.

Take an honest assessment of yourself first.

What are your drawbacks? Here are a few of mine;
-At 23 I had no clear life path defined, and was easily swayed by an aggressive older woman, until I dumped her ass after banging her out for a year.
-I am excitable and can overreact to things, i.e. get way too mad or upset over small things. - this hurts sensitive women.
-I can have a hard time dealing with negative emotions. - this can hurt a relationship if mentioned or discussed.
-If things get out of synch, i.e. we are not on the same page together, I can overreact to negative periods and demand that things be right. - which requires the game of not giving a fuck.

I was easily swayed by an aggressive older women in my early 20's, until I woke up a year later and broke it off with her. She then went on to marry a low IQ stone mason who ultimately devoted his entire life to serving hers. And I overinvest, overreact and just generally dont deal with my emotions well, which is terrible for an LTR. You, as a man going into an LTR, should know this about yourself first. You, should live enough for a while to figure this out, then, if you are serious about this, resolve those issues before you get into an LTR or marriage. Its really on you to bring your best self to a partner, and its your responsibility to work through these issues before you attempt to create a union.

Pick the right one, and be the absolute best version of yourself.

I have no problem finding women, but now my struggle is creating another LTR, because I am only going after exactly what I want. Anything short of that I have no time/money/energy for. I'm not too worried about it, but I think if you spend time and effort to learn LTR maintenance, you will create what you want.

Someone writing about his girlfriend who wanted to ask where they were at and how he dealed with it.

Quote:“This relationship is secondary to my purpose. We are in a vessel, which is symbiotic, and my current purpose of career/making money is my number one priority. If I am happy and doing well, then it’s for the good of this relationship and you will also benefit from this. If I put the relationship first, then that’s all we have and that is my purpose in life. We both know this is not true and that you are not with me because of this but because you believe in me and consequently, us.”
“Look, you know me and what I stand for. I am looking at the bigger picture because this relationship is just that, a relationship. If you level up and I level up, the relationship levels up.”
Either way, it alleviated her stress.

Why?

I took responsibility for my mistakes in tending to the relationship, responsibility and re-emphasis that I am the driver of this vessel and most importantly, the direction that I have and that she is a beneficiary in it.

Her support has a transactional long-term value. Her identity is tied to the guy she is with. I told her, let me be the man that I am destined to be and it will be for the better of everyone.
I recollected a video of Jordan Peterson that we both watched (and she has been sending all of her friends his videos) in which he states that if you block a person from being who they want to be, you end up being with a person is not. That’s not who you choose to be around and not a pleasant individual. They are a liar to themselves, because they are an ‘is-not’ rather than an ‘is’ and mistakes can define them.

She nodded in agreement, I told her to jump in bed and that was that.

Relationships rarely reciprocal

Quote:It’s mighty important to understand that while relationships are transactional, they are rarely reciprocal. We don’t ping for feedback and stimulus to the same level as women. Women however, do. As such, you are usually going to be giving more (materialistically, emotionally, psychologically).

Men who give in to selfish women and believe the relationship is larger than each individual’s purpose, lose the game because they set a precedent that such behavior is welcome.
A high value man has a higher price elasticity of demand and has more leeway (a higher change in price/supply leads to a miniscule change in demand) because of options and desirability elsewhere in the market. This alone mitigates both of the questions you pose; less tests, less drama, more trust in him.

It's about a team

Quote:It was my grandparents 65th (!) wedding anniversary. I asked my grandfather how he felt about it and he casually mentioned, “the first 64 years were the hardest”.

I thought the first 12 months of my relationship were hard, go figure!

Of course, they were painful, learning how to trust a woman. For the life of me, I could not trust her. This manifested into my own behavior and for some time, I projected my insecurities on to her through ignoring the fact that I chose her above other women, to be my partner.

Then I remembered two things.

As mentioned before, women ping through their man’s reality. This indirectly affected her behavior and she started to worry about the trust factor.

Secondly, I realized, I never trusted women. Although women never actually fucked me over, I never entered a serious relationship out of fear that she might cheat, she might lie and a host of insecure bullshit.

You’re only as confident as the familiarity of your situation. This is why newcomers to relationship will overreact and feel that there may/may not be a conspiracy against them.

It’s the dichotomy of living with someone, you either are the annoying or the annoyed; in a relationship you either are the trusting or the distrusting person. If you both distrust, the relationship ceases to exist.

I spoke to my grandfather, again, and he simply stated, “if she fucks up, that’s the price you pay to find out”.

This is where the teamwork mentality develops.
This is problem #1 about trusting women because it makes you bitter and no one likes a bitter fella.

Stop judging women solely off their appearance. This is fine for fucking but for partners, it is supremely narcissistic on a long enough scale. Do you really value what she looks like, over how she behaves and treats you? Hit on the hottest women around, sure, but constantly be screening and screen congruent to your values.

This is problem #2, stop judging women based off looks and giving them a free pass for shitty behavior for having good fucking genetics. Judge them based off their behavior to you, to others and those they intrinsically deem as inferior.
You owe this to your future self, if you want to stick around with them.

Discussion about the luck aspect

Quote:Let's assume you have moderate skill in the game.

Out of every 10 girls you approach, you get one solid conversion into a "date." (i.e. she's spending time with you)
Out of every 3 dates, you get a girl back to your place.
For every 3 girls back to your place, you bang 1.
For every 10 girls you bang, 1 of them will have decent compatibility with your personality (you both enjoy each other).

You're looking at roughly 1 in 900 girls just to have a somewhat decent relationship. And even then, she might not be a keeper; she could have other serious emotional or financial issues you are unaware of. So many things can go wrong.

Hence, all good LTR's rely on a tremendous amount of luck. There aren't nearly enough good women to go around and getting a good LTR takes a fuckton of work. You better be prepared to hunt like a starving ravenous wolf. And this is if you're actually moderately skilled at the game.

For most guys, it's not 1 in 900, it's probably closer to 1 in 2500 or 1 in 4000.
You will need to engage in serious numbers gaming to succeed and be happy. There is no way around this.
Being a beta is easy, LTR "game" is nothing men haven't been doing for millions of years. Being the alpha to find women in our poisoned, destroyed culture, is 100x harder. Anyone who fails to acknowledge this reality is spreading lies and therefore hurting men.

Quote:LTR game actually means is the ability to keep a relationship interesting and fresh, and keeping your woman in love with you as the years pass. This is achieved through frame, not being complacent or succumbing to beta tendencies, and overall masculinity. Roissy wrote a great deal on this, this isn't something I coined.

Yes, it takes a certain form of game to bang a hot girl, and it takes additional and continuous game to keep her. Attributing this to luck is incredibly myopic. Of course there is a numbers game involved when you are trying to find the right person. That doesn't make it luck anymore than saying game in general is luck because only so many opens convert to bangs.


Focus on chasing tail all the time or not?

Quote:Looking for a decent woman definitely requires you to remove yourself from the usual watering holes you frequent for pump'n'dump sessions.
-I'd skip out on constantly chasing tail and just trying to get laid. I can look back now on some memories, but it really hasn't brought me any sort of long term satisfaction.

Although my choices were culturally influenced I still had a choice.

So if I could go back I'd minimize that phase and put much more effort into finding a decent woman to settle down with.
Looking for a decent woman definitely requires you to remove yourself from the usual watering holes you frequent for pump'n'dump sessions.
-I'd skip out on constantly chasing tail and just trying to get laid. I can look back now on some memories, but it really hasn't brought me any sort of long term satisfaction.

Although my choices were culturally influenced I still had a choice.

So if I could go back I'd minimize that phase and put much more effort into finding a decent woman to settle down with.

The environmental aspect
Quote:Finding LTR or marriage women you need to go to places where normal girls will be in abundance. Not girls who are out to drink and fuck. So bars are right out.

Creating a family should be easy; the idea that game is needed to make a family shows how fucked our environment is. Fixing the environment is therefore the highest priority.

The environment is King. That is why travel is so powerful; changing your environment to where women are less poisoned makes all the difference.

going abroad to find a woman isn't nearly as easy as guys think, those women have their own problems

Finding good women isn't difficult. The reason it seems hard is because most of us here spend time in horrible places like bars and clubs where the trashiest of trash hang out.

Quote:Also, I believe good and bad women are not defined by where they live(the west, the east). From my experience people can be terrible around the globe. You are just as likely to find a bad one on any corner of the globe. Its up to YOU, to find the good ones, anywhere you are. They exist, but how good are you are finding them? And do you actually deserve that? What is your tool set to identify that, and how well did you do that before you decided that where ever you live "has no good women?"

Low notch count a must

Quote:The sex wont be great to start with, because she hasn't been sucking cock since she was 15 and getting gangbanged. Its easy to be discouraged by that kind of sex at first, but the girl can learn. But honestly, the girls who start masturbating at 12 and want cock and fuck a ton of guys aren't LTR girls, so a choice has to be made.

It's a commitment!

Quote:A long term relationship is a commitment to see out the best and worst of that person on the premise that overall your life is better because of them. That means going through good times and bad times. Sticking it out when things get rough in the knowledge that they'll do the same for you.
Sometimes you argue. You make up. You fuck. You go back to being happy. All the while you bond, to the point that (yes, it might seem unbelievable) you still want them by your side when they (and you) are a 90 year old sack of wrinkles.
This is why most LTR fail today. Not just because of the girl, but of the guys who say "next" as if it's their sacred name.

Marriage was successful because most people back at the time were willing to sit down and fix their problem, instead of taking each other to the court.

2. Both you and the woman need to understand that it won't always be sunshine and rainbows. Sometimes you'll get mad at each other, sometimes you won't even like each other, sometimes you both will make mistakes, but you must not tear each other down and make them feel even worse. In marriage, you are a team. If one person on the team loses, the whole team loses.

-- When I made a mistake, my ex wife, though right to be upset, would get on my case and tear me down constantly for it. Silent treatment for hours even days, and making snide quips about my past mistakes. She wouldn't even allow me to save even a little bit of face.

This is why I think Asian women make good wives. Coming from a collectivist culture, they understand the importance of teamwork and saving face.

Don't be fooled to believe conflict is just normal

Quote:”In most cases I think people hamster away conflict as a "part of relationships" when the reality of the situation is you have two people who simply do not belong together but are locked in some sort of codependent embrace. One of my exes tried in vain to convince me that getting into fights was "normal" when I knew damn (as an SMV4) well she just wanted to keep jamming a square peg into a round hole because she thought she could never find a better match.

At whatever point I look at a woman and all I can do is replay all of the hurtful things she's said in the past, then I'm out. I'm just out.”

You might be suffering because you value looks over personality

Quote:So it’s about a commitment. This means that guys having a lot of trouble are often suffering because they're looking for the wrong things. Compliance. Good looks. All good and well when things are fresh and new, but time and tide make a mockery of such things if loyalty and perseverance are not present (on both sides).

The male-female pair-bonding dynamic is best viewed as creating a team. Not as a man choosing the best fuck-toy/maid/cook/nanny/armcandy he can acquire.

Fuck-toys/maids/cooks/nannys/armcandy will leave when the going gets tough. A team-mate sticks by you through thick and thin. You and them against the world.

That's what people should look for.

Be the leader

Quote: When you’re in a LTR like this, you have to be the leader. Don’t ever cede or defer your leadership to her on matters that are most important to you. No, you don’t boss her around like a dictator, do listen to her and take her words/feelings under consideration, but you have to have the foresight and lead with what you know.

Plan on ending it

Quote:The odds are against a lifelong marriage. Marriage or a LTR where you raise kids and experience long term teamship with a quality women is a worthy endeavor, if you plan for it ending at any second and you are happy to loose everything.

How much investment?

Quote:Now 3 is very important. Don't work harder than her, don't sacrifice you health and happiness for the "wife and kids". Don't give her a much better life than you. Because firstly she will not appreciate it, and secondly it will leave you very bitter when it ends.

If you only match her investment and assume at any moment it can end where she takes the kids and all the assets - and you are happy with that- then you will have a great marriage and life.

ie the rewards for what you contribute to the marriage come daily and you are happy with the transaction. Do not think you can sacrifice now for a good life later.

-- I cannot stress this enough. In my last marriage, I sacrificed too much thinking that "relationships require sacrifice". In hindsight, I misunderstood what that really means. You don't sacrifice your health, wellbeing, finances, and most precious of all, your soul for your marriage. Those are the most important things in your life, and if you over-sacrifice even a little bit, your marriage is doomed because you will resent it.

What you CAN sacrifice is the time you spend in finding the right women FOR YOU, and if applicable, the time you put into learning a new culture and new language. When you do find the right girl, you sacrifice the player lifestyle. When you have kids, you sacrifice your location independence and traveling lifestyle. Those are the sacrifices you have to be willing to make to get your marriage to work, but not your money, not your health, and especially not your dignity.

Someone responded to that:

Quote:The concept of "not putting your 100%" into a long term relationship is laughable-might be better off just not being in one. Of course one needs to be guarded initially, but if you can't trust your home and hearth to a partner, then maybe you shouldn't call them a partner.

Think about where you want to build your family

Quote:Your best defense is probably culture - being with a woman with a traditional background, behaving in a traditional manner, and likely staying in that cultural environment after you marry. I don't know if that requires going abroad but it sure makes it seem more likely. A lot of guys that go abroad end up hitching a "liberated" woman though so due diligence is still in order.

More likely offline

Quote:Meet her offline. If you absolutely must use online dating, try match.com, eharmony, or a specific religious site. Still I'd recommend putting all your energy into real life. The internet and social media ruins women, we all know this. If possible meet her through your social circle.

Importance of screening

Quote:If you're thinking of LTR or marriage you have to know what you want. I had a list of 7 things I was looking for in a woman. She’s gotta hit ALL of those. Do NEVER compromise.

Quote:1) Selection is everything.

You need to find someone that is right for you. Someone that is Flexible, Giving, has high integrity, is mentally mature, can deal with conflicts and challenges in a healthy way, can communicate, doesn't play head games.

The right one could help you create a massive business, become wildly successful, fulfill your dreams, and give you everything you need to be your best everyday. Just simple confidence and self esteem. Which is way more powerful than we give it credit for. Anyone that doesn't give you that should be discarded immediately.

Does she treat you well? No complaining, no nagging, no emotional games(freeze outs, jealousy, etc).

In addition, likely has as little baggage as possible, does not come from a broken home, is educated and self sufficient, doesn't talk badly of exes, doesn't come from abuse, no abortions, no past drinking/drug abuse, has dealt well with her bad background/parents, if she had that. Important, review her credit score, low credit score? If so its a no go, and get out fast.

Greatly beneficial if you hold the same spiritual and political beliefs. If you are aligned on your goals in life, your goals. And she fits the guide of what you want. I am partial to active, fit and intellectual blondes. Coincidentally all of my LTR's have been that, except for that time I went latina.


Age
Once a girl gets above a certain age (say 27) and unmarried you start getting into the leftover category.
Never trust any woman over 25 which is when they start selling themselves the hardest to have a kid and looking for a sperm donor or looking for a DAD to pay for an existing kid (yes there are lots of case where multiple fathers are paying for the same kid!)
If you spend enough time around women who are 25+ you will notice that they are jaded, have baggage and ultimately aren’t the best option. This is a generalization based off my experience but do not let it deter you.
If you spend enough time around women who are < 25 then you realize they lack maturity, direction and the abilities to be a good partner without requiring training (I wrote about this elsewhere).

Quote:You don't have to have things in common with a woman to settle down with her. I had everything in common with my x wife and the marriage still failed

Quote:One of the best ways to screen for a quality LTR is to travel with her. Not just to enjoy the sights on a vacation, but to see whether you are compatible with her. You also observe how she handles and resolves problems along the way. Oh, and try to take at least two trips with her before making a final judgement. One when she's not on the rag, and one when she IS on the rag (so you see her at her worst). I'm not kidding.

When things don't go as planned, does she get upset easily? Does she blame you? Does she try to "take control" or hijack your leadership? Or does she always let you take the lead? Does she make suggestions in a respectful way, neither demanding nor demeaning? Does she actively participate in planning the trip, or does she sit back while you do all the work? Does she try to pay at least part of her way, or expect you to pay for everything? Was the overall trip an enjoyable experience, or was it a harrowing and stressful one?

A four day trip can be very, very revealing of her character if you have these questions in mind.


Quote:Screen her family and friends for their values, for controlling behavior, and for class consciousness, because what she surrounds herself with is a reflection on what she'll want to fill your home with. Screen her reactions to dishonesty, irresponsibility, entitlement, and cruelty in others, because if it's anything other than shock and confusion, there's a good chance she's got it in her, too.

Her family

Quote:She has to have had a stable family life and strict upbringing. Being religious helps. Girl's with strict immigrant parents who believe in a family are usually much better than a regular American chick.
Her family: Cannot be a broken family (goes without saying) and must support your marriage without over-controlling everything. It's nice to have them help with the kids every now and then so you can get some time alone, but they can't go around bossing you around in your own house. Her parents should also keep her in line, though

Her friends

Quote:This is an overlooked point... her friends have HUGE influence on her. This is one reason why I don't plan on importing a foreign wife to the West. What will happen is she would find friends from her own culture, but the problem is these friends have already been Westernized and they will educate her on Western family court laws and shit on men, even their own husbands. Your wife will join in on the catty shit and now you have the same problems that come with a Western wife.

Also, whatever you do, do NOT marry a woman if any of her friends are into the swinging lifestyle. Her swinger friend will try to drag you (as a couple) into it, and if you don't want to join, you'll be ostracized by her friend and your wife will resent you for it. Personally, I haven't done any swinging as a married man, but I knew exactly what would happen if I went to a swinger party. She'd get offers from other men to fuck, and all I would see are fat wives... or some variation of that. I knew it wouldn't go well, so I stood my ground and said no. Of course, I got flack from everyone for that.

Social media


Quote:Get off social media and the news where everyone is harping on about feminism and bullshit. Find chicks who are not sucked in to this either and if they are, they can see through the shit.

My girlfriend is red-pill to an extent (concerning male/female relations), partly because she understands how media bubbles and echo chambers affect day to day life. We live in an environment where a latent fear of racism, crime and –bigger problems- than feminism exist.

Quote:If you can find a girl that doesn't do social media then that's a fucking HUGE bonus. If you find a keeper that uses that shit then your best bet is probably to routinely drop red-pills around her about how much you despise social media users and how most women that use it are just sad attention whores fishing for compliments from anonymous fuckwits by taking a thousand photos, picking the best one and then heavily editing it to make themselves look way more attractive than they actually are, and another thing...! (etc etc etc)


Compatibility of opinions

Quote:She must be at least close, in the way she views the world, to yours. @The Beast1 was able to convert his wife to voting Trump. Good for you, but I would rather not invest my time and energy. Maybe it's my age, but I highly recommend that.

Personality

Quote:Never, and I repeat, NEVER get involved with a cold women. This is exactly the recipe for bad LTR. She has to bring warmth to the table as part of her femininity.

Quote:She has to be curious, as I consider myself having wide range of interests. Her being curious (intellectually) means we will not run out of topic to discuss.
For other people - look for the equivalence (discipline? whatever other high priority quality you find in a women).

Quote:One quality I think is essential for any girl to have as a LTR candidate is what I call "the happy gene". Is her natural equilibrium an upbeat / happy /laughs easily kind of demeanor ? Or is she prone to states of moroseness/crabbiness or acerbity that needs to be actively entertained/stimulated into being "happy"?

Before I knew better I exhausted a lot of time, money and energy on "sourpussy" because they were hot. I spent 5 years and I dont know how much money on one because she was smoking (tall blond bikini/ lingerie model) before I had enough and pulled the plug

If a girl doesn't have that "happy gene"...she's not long for my world anymore. If there was only piece of advice I could give a guy thinking about wifeing up,,,make sure she has that quality


Boundaries

Quote:Women and children seek boundaries and sometimes test the old ones to make sure they're still there.

Quote:-- My ex wife fought me EVERY goddamn step of the way, over EVERY little thing. I got tired of it and let her have her way on those little things. But she wouldn't stop fighting me, so I kept giving inch after inch until I had nothing left... except deep resentment.
Any man looking in from the outside is thinking “oh you just needed more game” or “you need to be more alpha” is only deluding himself. I don't care how alpha you are.

Imagine you have an ice pick and there's a bulky statue made of rock in front of you. You stab at the statue with the ice pick. It makes a small dent. But at a distance, the statue looks pretty much the same, right? Now pick at the statue 3 or 4 times every day for a year. There will be over a thousand dents. Keep that up for another few years, and the statue will be but a shell of its former self.

This is exactly what happens to the psyche of an alpha male after years of getting henpecked by his wife.

Find a woman who won't do that to you.

Know when to walk out on her

Quote:Most of all young men; dont waste your precious time in life. Back out and walk away very quickly if you know she is not right for you. I am really good at this now, but in the past, it was harder. If she doesn't hit my desires for an LTR, I lose interest real fast. I'd imagine its how a lot of women feel too, when they are searching for the "perfect one". NEVER SETTLE. Life is too short, your time is too valuable, and your money is too precious, for you as a young man to waste it on something that sucks. Walk away quick if you are serious about getting what you want out of life.
Thats why I get so annoyed with these threads about guys having a tough time with obviously bad girls, and simpish recommendations about staying with the woman. Screw all that. Your life, health, energy and potential should not be wasted, at all, at any time. Dont listen to any old man telling you to stick it out with a bad woman. Immediately ask him how successful he is, doubtful its not at all.

Cheating

Quote:Cheating on your wife, "spinning plates" when you are married, without your wifes consent, is the quickest way to ruin your life. I would imagine there are several men here that have experienced that hard lesson as well. I tried it recently for the first time with an LTR, and I got burned badly. Anyone espousing that approach is incredibly stupid, unexperienced, or just flat out lying. There is absolutely no reason to be in an LTR if your intention is to lie and cheat.

Don't bother saving the civilization


Quote:It's not wise to mentally tie marriage (and kids) to a push to "save civilisation".

Any benefit in that direction is a bonus, not an end-game. Don't create a script that casts you as some sort of self sacrificing hero. The vast majority of guys that go down that road end up bitter and spiteful that their "heroic sacrifices" were never recognised and that nobody ended up building a statue of them in the town square.

Starting a family can be incredibly rewarding in and of itself, but people who do it with the primary motivation of martyring themselves for society are going to end up with a miserable sense of betrayal.

Look and listen to good examples

Quote:Go hang out with older people, people of various backgrounds and experience levels in life. A lot of people I know are getting married and it’s very interesting to note that they all have different relationship dynamics and their reasons to marry are consistent but can vary on a small enough scale.

I personally enjoy listening to everyone’s reasoning and rationale. You can often tell if they are honest or coerced into marriage.

Get a feel for the environment there.

In a relationship, this will happen automatically when your social circle and her social circle merge over time.

Theory is good and all but go observe relationships around you, ask questions and be Socratic in your search for answers.
(This post was last modified: 12-09-2018 09:11 PM by Helpful Science Guy.)
12-09-2018 09:06 PM
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Post: #39
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
^^ Honored that quite a bit of that was written by me and I thank you as I was looking for the trust post from the LTR thread.

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12-21-2018 03:20 AM
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Post: #40
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
Hi guys, hoping someone more experienced with this can help me out.

To summarize, I've gotten very good at the pickup/harem maintenance game. Reading, diagnosing body language, and reacting in a charming way is close to second nature. However, I'm in uncharted territory.

For the first time since I've learned game I've met a girl who I can see myself really going somewhere with. I had a serious LTR before I learned game, and that burned me very badly because of my oneitis and poor relationship management. In the intervening years, my life has done a complete 180. I'm very happy with the way my life is right now, and I have plenty of women to make me happy.

This girl however, is a cut above the rest. In terms of connection, her views on life, her work ethic, etc. I'm so used to the two date and bang model, that when this girl actually rejected my offer to come to my place and cook dinner, I was shocked. She has good reasons (interested in a relationship, not in a rush, wants to make sure she's with the right person before she sleeps with them). She accepted an alternative date suggestion enthusiastically. She's not taking me for a ride for fun, because I actually had her pay for the first date, and I know I'd be able to have her do it again.

It's hard to say based on the one date we had previously, but she has only been in one relationship prior which was 6 years long, from 18-24. She is 24 now. Her parents got divorced, which is a major red flag. However, I get the feeling she has learned a lot from that about what actually makes a relationship and made some very astute observations that are completely in line with how gender dynamics in a relationship are supposed to be. Writing this out and thinking about it logically I must have oneitis, but I still want to see this out if it's possible. If it isn't, I won't lose any sleep over it and I will keep happily spinning my plates and stacking cash. I have this gut feeling though that I'm supposed to go after her, and so far my gut has been right about many other things.

Regardless, she was all over me when we saw each other last, and keeps blowing up my phone in the days since. I really want to get to know this girl better, but I am completely unsure of what to do right now. I don't know how to play the long game, or even how to deal with LTR quality chicks. I'm great at spinning plates and managing hot women I don't connect with, but on this I am out of my depth and wondering how you more experienced gentlemen would handle this situation.

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(This post was last modified: 12-28-2018 01:43 PM by Investment Bro.)
12-28-2018 01:35 PM
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Post: #41
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
(12-28-2018 01:35 PM)Investment Bro Wrote:  Hi guys, hoping someone more experienced with this can help me out.

To summarize, I've gotten very good at the pickup/harem maintenance game. Reading, diagnosing body language, and reacting in a charming way is close to second nature. However, I'm in uncharted territory.

For the first time since I've learned game I've met a girl who I can see myself really going somewhere with. I had a serious LTR before I learned game, and that burned me very badly because of my oneitis and poor relationship management. In the intervening years, my life has done a complete 180. I'm very happy with the way my life is right now, and I have plenty of women to make me happy.

This girl however, is a cut above the rest. In terms of connection, her views on life, her work ethic, etc. I'm so used to the two date and bang model, that when this girl actually rejected my offer to come to my place and cook dinner, I was shocked. She has good reasons (interested in a relationship, not in a rush, wants to make sure she's with the right person before she sleeps with them). She accepted an alternative date suggestion enthusiastically. She's not taking me for a ride for fun, because I actually had her pay for the first date, and I know I'd be able to have her do it again.

It's hard to say based on the one date we had previously, but she has only been in one relationship prior which was 6 years long, from 18-24. She is 24 now. Her parents got divorced, which is a major red flag. However, I get the feeling she has learned a lot from that about what actually makes a relationship and made some very astute observations that are completely in line with how gender dynamics in a relationship are supposed to be. Writing this out and thinking about it logically I must have oneitis, but I still want to see this out if it's possible. If it isn't, I won't lose any sleep over it and I will keep happily spinning my plates and stacking cash. I have this gut feeling though that I'm supposed to go after her, and so far my gut has been right about many other things.

Regardless, she was all over me when we saw each other last, and keeps blowing up my phone in the days since. I really want to get to know this girl better, but I am completely unsure of what to do right now. I don't know how to play the long game, or even how to deal with LTR quality chicks. I'm great at spinning plates and managing hot women I don't connect with, but on this I am out of my depth and wondering how you more experienced gentlemen would handle this situation.

I went through a similar situation this year and can provide some insight.

1. You need to firmly decide your intentions for her. Is she a FWB, mini-LTR, LTR, or possible wife? What you want to get out of her will influence the game decisions you make.

If you don't know what bucket she falls into, you could easily fall into the trap of letting her dictate the relationship. This is sort of what happened to me. I met a girl and fell head over heels for her, but I didn't know what I was doing, so I let unconsciously let her "drive" the relationship. Next thing I know I'm meeting her parents, she's posting me on her Instagram, and dropping hints about marriage.

Girl game is real, and if she puts you in the "husband" category, she'll do everything in her power to get you there, especially at that age.

So, which bucket does she fall into? It's impossible for us to judge that over forum posts. It's necessary for you to take the time and rationally determine what YOU want out of the relationship.

Even if she is wife material, do you see yourself getting married in the next 2-3 years? If not, the timing for her is bad. She's 24. You get married in 2 years, you've got a 4 year window of peak fertility. Depending on your age and life situation, it might be more beneficial to wait and scoop up another girl in a few years.

2. Whatever you do want out of her, you have to keep your pimp hand strong.

It's easy to get comfortable in a relationship and slack off. For the first two months I was with my girl, I was still chasing outside tail and being a "jerk" to her. After we were together for a bit, I started getting soft. Spending more time with her, going out of my way to do things, etc.

It doesn't work like that. You can't get comfortable. Game is 24-7. You've got to keep your emotions in check and make sure that you aren't turning into a beta soyboy.

No matter what happens, use this as a learning experience. Like you, I got into the groove of spinning plates and managing my girls like a boss.

However, once my ex fell into the picture, I became overwhelmed and didn't know what to do. It's easy to manage a relationship when you don't care if she leaves and you're truly outcome independent, but when you become emotionally invested in a girl it becomes a bit harder. It's easier to tell a 6 to fuck off than it is a 9.

Your game will improve if you can get into a relationship with a 9 and manage it like a pimp.

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12-28-2018 02:17 PM
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Post: #42
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
(12-28-2018 02:17 PM)redbeard Wrote:  I went through a similar situation this year and can provide some insight.

1. You need to firmly decide your intentions for her. Is she a FWB, mini-LTR, LTR, or possible wife? What you want to get out of her will influence the game decisions you make.

If you don't know what bucket she falls into, you could easily fall into the trap of letting her dictate the relationship. This is sort of what happened to me. I met a girl and fell head over heels for her, but I didn't know what I was doing, so I let unconsciously let her "drive" the relationship. Next thing I know I'm meeting her parents, she's posting me on her Instagram, and dropping hints about marriage.

Girl game is real, and if she puts you in the "husband" category, she'll do everything in her power to get you there, especially at that age.

So, which bucket does she fall into? It's impossible for us to judge that over forum posts. It's necessary for you to take the time and rationally determine what YOU want out of the relationship.

Even if she is wife material, do you see yourself getting married in the next 2-3 years? If not, the timing for her is bad. She's 24. You get married in 2 years, you've got a 4 year window of peak fertility. Depending on your age and life situation, it might be more beneficial to wait and scoop up another girl in a few years.

2. Whatever you do want out of her, you have to keep your pimp hand strong.

It's easy to get comfortable in a relationship and slack off. For the first two months I was with my girl, I was still chasing outside tail and being a "jerk" to her. After we were together for a bit, I started getting soft. Spending more time with her, going out of my way to do things, etc.

It doesn't work like that. You can't get comfortable. Game is 24-7. You've got to keep your emotions in check and make sure that you aren't turning into a beta soyboy.

No matter what happens, use this as a learning experience. Like you, I got into the groove of spinning plates and managing my girls like a boss.

However, once my ex fell into the picture, I became overwhelmed and didn't know what to do. It's easy to manage a relationship when you don't care if she leaves and you're truly outcome independent, but when you become emotionally invested in a girl it becomes a bit harder. It's easier to tell a 6 to fuck off than it is a 9.

Your game will improve if you can get into a relationship with a 9 and manage it like a pimp.

I appreciate the knowledge. I don't know her well enough to say I'd marry her, especially considering the declining state of the west. My LTR game is certainly not strong enough to even consider that option for another couple of years. I have a list of everything I want in a woman, both from a personality and looks standpoint. I evaluated it objectively, and surprisingly she checked off 13/14 things on the list (the divorced parents are the exception). This girl is not a 9, she's a classic LTR type. 7 face, conservative dress but an amazing athletic body.

I'm interested in an LTR with her, especially considering how I can feel how she'd be a strong compliment to my life as well as the same being true in reverse. At this point, I am not interested in kids so her relative age isn't a priority in that sense. Plus, both of us have our own successful businesses that we don't want to put on pause.

I can see the danger of complacency. I had to bang one of my other plates before I was able to rationally sit down and assess the entire situation. I'm not going to stop spinning plates on the side, no matter what.

Can I ask what you meant when you say you were overwhelmed? I wouldn't say I'm overwhelmed, but I can see how it could get to that point. Thank you so much for the advice thus far!

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12-28-2018 04:20 PM
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Post: #43
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
If you are not interested in kids, don't get into a LTR or get married. She will definitely want kids, and you're gonna ruin each other's life over it.

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12-28-2018 05:57 PM
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Post: #44
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
(08-15-2018 10:53 AM)Jetset Wrote:  Alright, question for the brain trust.

Background: LTR is at my house most of the time, has some stuff in my coat closet. She does take care of a lot of household things, doesn't hesitate to run my car through the car wash, etc. She's been feeling ill for a couple days. She was resting on the couch this morning, and I was getting a little edgy because she's been whining and nitpicking this morning.

So this morning, emptied my pockets from last night to put things in another pair of pants after I showered, and after I do the morning routine and get ready to start the workday in my home office, I go back to grab my stuff. I had a couple bucks of coins in the pile - can't say exactly how much - and they weren't there. It was unambiguous that they were with the other items I'd taken out of my pants.

"Huh. Where's my change?"

"I put it in the change box, I thought you wouldn't want to carry that around."

"...change box? What change box?"

"It's in the coat closet."

I go look in the coat closet.

"In the tin."

There's a metal tin up there with a few one dollar bills, and a pile of coins the size of a small cake pan. There's got to be over twenty bucks in here. I have my own change jar in my office. I didn't know this existed, I thought it was full of her lipsticks and sunscreens or something, and I've never noticed any money going missing before, so I don't have any reason to suspect this is a pattern. Still, I need to make a point so I grab the cash and wave it to her.

"Are these from my pants?"

"What?! No!"

It isn't, and I know that, but my change was definitely in there. I spotted the stray Euro coins I knew I had.

"OK, I'm taking a couple dollars in quarters back out of here."

"No! The quarters are for the car wash and..."

"I need my pocket change."

"It was all nickels and dimes, why do you have to take the quart..."

"Look, I realize you're sick and are a little cranky, but you need to stop arguing with me right now. It's getting..."

"I'm not sick and cranky, you're cranky, stop being an ass."

"GOD DAMNIT, KNOCK IT OFF WITH THE BULLSHIT THIS MORNING. WE'LL NEVER KNOW WHAT WAS IN MY POCKET BECAUSE YOU TOOK IT WITHOUT ASKING AND HID IT."

Then went into my office jingling the quarters together and ignoring whatever she tried to say after that. She's still on the couch.

It's a couple bucks and we're way beyond the point where plenty of things are "ours". If she wants us to keep a change jar, fine. However, the fact that she didn't tell me what she did and the fact that she got agitated about me taking some back out is idiocy. She wasn't trying to "hide" it, but it's not "ours", because if I hadn't asked, I would still not even know the change box existed. It's not OK and I'm going to have to talk to her about it later, but am I off-base to actually be pissed here?

I'm all for holding frame but this was a missing the forest from the trees type of thing. Seems like she has a pleasing orientation and is nesting.

I guess it's one thing if you don't want a LTR, just set the line in the sand, but when you saw your euro coins you shoulda chilled out.

Remember, frame is paternal. So you don't go into your kids room and unload on them for not putting your Whisky bottle in the right spot in the cabinet, you recognise they wanted to help and politely tell them not to touch your Whiskey and that you love them etc.

If you don't want a GF, so be it, but this read as insecure hyperdominance.
12-28-2018 08:56 PM
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Post: #45
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
One part of Redbeards post bears repeating

If you don't know what bucket she falls into, you could easily fall into the trap of letting her dictate the relationship. This is sort of what happened to me. I met a girl and fell head over heels for her, but I didn't know what I was doing, so I let unconsciously let her "drive" the relationship. Next thing I know I'm meeting her parents, she's posting me on her Instagram, and dropping hints about marriage.


Future Issues
She is a product of divorce and will harbor "doubts" that any relationship is "forever". Those doubts get magnified over the years.

She was already in a fairly lengthy relationship. It didn't last (probably lost her virginity to the guy) so where do you stand in the future? Your going to be compared to the ghost boyfriend because she had a real long serious relationship with him.

At 24 she's learned to "set the hook" faster this is partly because of her age and her ex boyfriend who was given enough time to make a checklist of her faults...can't cook clean fuck or snores etc. She isn't going to give you time to figure her out.

A side note which I think is the genesis of what Redbeard wrote is giving a woman RESPECT to fast. Meaning spinning plates gets a little dull and a guy gets bored and then POW. A girl that is different comes along. She's the relationship pro (not going to give it up to fast this time) and can feel your respect and interest oozing out of you. Your inexperienced in this area and really dig the "shock and awe" of being THE ONE. So you roll over and let her drive the relationship.

You need time to strip away her mask, whether she gives you that time or not is a good indicator of where you fit in her plans. (sperm donor)
She's looking at 30 but she doesn't have a clue who she will be after 30 and she may not care. But if your with her after 30 and married you will have few choices but up suck up your past decision.

It would be better IMO if she had more than one boyfriend in her past so she could be more realistic on you. (not throwing the past guy in your face).
This is not a traditional relationship either it's her pretending to have one after the failed first one. She should be fucking after the 2nd or 3rd week if she was more realistic on forming a relationship leading to marriage.

A good clue for knowing when your in a good relationship is when you don't realize your even in a relationship, you just like being with her 24/7.
A girl calling anyone "a husband" without really knowing her future husband is up to something.

............LIFE isn't a DRESS REHEARSAL.........
12-28-2018 09:25 PM
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Post: #46
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
Keep in mind that marriage is a contract and that contract favors women. Read and understand the contract fully before you sign on the dotted line as you would with any business transaction you would enter into with your eyes wide open.
12-29-2018 09:01 AM
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Post: #47
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
(12-28-2018 04:20 PM)Investment Bro Wrote:  I'm interested in an LTR with her, especially considering how I can feel how she'd be a strong compliment to my life as well as the same being true in reverse. At this point, I am not interested in kids so her relative age isn't a priority in that sense. Plus, both of us have our own successful businesses that we don't want to put on pause.

If you're interested in an LTR ONLY with her, you need to recognize that this has an expiration date. She will age and you don't want to grow old with her. That means a few things:

-You shouldn't waste her time (she's giving you valuable years)
-You might be wasting your time (you might find a more suitable wife candidate)
-You will have to break up with her eventually

Why? Exactly what StrikeBack says. If you two have two different plans for the relationship, it won't end well:

(12-28-2018 05:57 PM)StrikeBack Wrote:  If you are not interested in kids, don't get into a LTR or get married. She will definitely want kids, and you're gonna ruin each other's life over it.

This is the hard part about being in your twenties. I've talked with a few forum members about this privately and it's not an easy pill to swallow. If you really do want to wait until your 30's to get married, you'll have to pay the price. That price is breaking girls hearts in your 20's, or staying away from LTR's completely.

Quote:Can I ask what you meant when you say you were overwhelmed? I wouldn't say I'm overwhelmed, but I can see how it could get to that point. Thank you so much for the advice thus far!

After years in the game, I've got experience picking up chicks. I know what it's like to approach, set up dates, escalate, venue change, push through "I've never done this before," and secure the bang. I've done that countless times. It's familiar.

I've also had a handful of "mini-relationships." I know what it's like to keep a girl around who starts to fall for me. I know how to be enough "boyfriend potential" that we can spend a few pleasant months together without either of us becoming too emotionally invested.

However, in my entire game career, no girls have graduated to full girlfriend status because they had some notable red flags. Since they're disqualified from wife status in my mind, I know there's an expiration date and don't take them seriously. I keep my emotions in check and treat them as plates. Eventually, they realize this isn't going anywhere and leave. Wash rinse repeat.

Enter my ex girlfriend. Picking her up was business as usual, but after we started banging, I noticed things were different. Despite a few red flags, she checked a *ton* of my boxes. I can confidently say this was the best girl I've ever dated. That's what made things different.

Usually, I have no problem walking away from chicks. But my ex was different. tard Because she was such a great girl, I started catching feelings for her. Next thing I know I'm seeing her more often, having sleepovers, meeting her family, and therefore...losing my pimp hand.

See it's one thing to keep a strong frame when you don't give a shit about the girl. It's another thing to stay strong and outcome independent when you're legitimately interested in a future with the girl.

That's how I got overwhelmed. I didn't know what it was like to feel this way for a girl, and it hurt my game. I found myself doing things I wouldn't normally do with chicks - all because I had feelings for this girl. Although I have plenty of experience picking up girls, I don't have much experience in serious relationships like this. I was overwhelmed by the new challenge of a serious relationship.

Relationships are harder than ONS due to the time element. It's one thing to "fake it till you make it" and be an alpha stud for the 2-4 hours that are required to sleep with a girl. It's another thing to spend hundreds of hours with a girl, where you have to maintain frame the entire time. You end up getting comfortable with the girl, letting your guard down, and doing things you wouldn't normally do with a plate.

I got soft, and it hurt the relationship.

Now that I have that relationship under my belt, my game has improved. Next time such a high quality girl enters my life, I'll know what it's like to build a burning desire for a girl, and I'll know how to keep my emotions in check and run the relationship like a boss.
12-29-2018 10:13 AM
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Post: #48
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
Emphasis on don't lose your pimp hand Pimp

Smile

Get your passport ready!
12-29-2018 10:51 AM
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Post: #49
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
@Investment Bro

I will preface this by mentioning that I like your posts and I think your head is in the right place. Everything you're going through is natural and you need a second opinion.

Just be conscious as to where you are coming from, with regards to these decisions, what biases are you being subjected to and be Socratic and put these questions to the test.

Some random thoughts on what you wrote, in no particular order...

Divorce is common unfortunately, make of that what you will. I noticed the girls I have been with have been more aware of avoiding such situations and in general, will play game more than not. It's been mentioned, endlessly, that these women are 'tainted'. Yes and no. You find women who are from divorced families that have this fear of it that will avoid it and double down on being loyal to the man they love.

Generalizations exist for a reason but if you're making a decision on your partner (time/energy/emotional commitment), it deserves more than a generalization scratching the surface but I digress. Too many variables. Sometimes they're divorced and both parents go on to have successful marriages later on and the kids are integrated. Sometimes, it's a fuckshow and the mother becomes a lesbian, hates men and goes on a whole different story. I've seen it all.

I give more emphasis to if she was the eldest daughter and how she responded to it post-divorce. Being in a LTR for 6 years is no joke and to me, a green flag personally.

As for getting into a relationship.

You can't start a business without some relevant apprenticeship, mentorship or experience.

You can't get into a marriage without experience managing the relationships and steading the masts of emotion prior and practicing leadership in a domain where you are directly affected by your decisions. The woman is the lens that refracts the emotion you put out there and it comes back to you. The more investment (bro) you put in, the more the dynamics change.

Should you want a fruitful and rewarding marriage or family eventually, this is a process you will need to go through. The only variable here is if you are ready or not. As redbeard mentions, it's something you will never really know, it's a leap of faith in a strange and hyperbolic way (considering it's the most natural state of male/female affairs).

I say go with your gut (and desire essentially) and take her on. Let the chips fall where they may. Have fun, don't fear the outcome and enjoy the journey.
It's all fine if you trust your emotional control and can avoid getting her pregnant.

I broke off my 3.5 year relationship in March. My ex has been seeing someone since April and got engaged a few days ago. My current girl asked me, how do I feel and why did it end to which I answered:

"I am on my own path and she was no longer a part of it". I also gave reference to The Road Not Taken by Robert Frost.

The takeaway here is, you don't need to stress about it, just devote yourself to something greater. Whatever gets you up in the morning, excited to jump out of bed and never lose sight or forget it.

I co-sign redbeards 2nd point concerning pimp hand but look, this needs to be second nature. It's no longer game as we know it. Second nature as a trait of being a man. Not as an insurance policy against getting played.

Glass half empty vs glass half full.

Taking risk vs playing defense.

It's leading accordingly, knowing when to encourage and when to be firm and imposing your 'requirements' of a desirable partner.

Over time, two things will happen.
a) the standard, reverting to the mean; you will see what she is made of.

b) most importantly, she will adjust to what you want, provided you set the environment for her to grow and reach her potential.

Emotions are fine, I think too many guys here are focused on being a hard ass alpha without any balance. I am passionate and I show it. Every woman I have let into my life has fallen in love with this and me.

I realize, as time passes, I am a bit different to most posters here. I don't have the time and inclination to manage a harem any more. I got myself a superb girl from a great family that love me, she is stunningly gorgeous and ticks all boxes; hence my erratic participation over a 6 year period. I went from playing the field to being a sniper and finding specific girls and working on my screening mechanisms. Getting a STI also changed my perception of fucking indiscriminately.

I got a great partner for now and there is no 'ms. right', just 'ms. right now' and I am comfortable to not worry about women again in my life. Even in a relationship, as long as she keeps me happy, time will do the rest.

Don't worry about putting out fires that don't exist. You will change, she will change and you will learn more about yourself under this set of 'stresses' than anything else. Juxtapose who you are now vs 2 years and 2 years before that etc etc. You're not the same person.

If you are scared of leaving a woman then that tells you two things-

a) you're weaker than you thought

b) she left a mark on you and it's your decision to decide if you're blinded, she is special or you need to wake the fuck up.


If you're scared of a woman leaving you then-

a) your worth is tied up in her

b) you have no control over the situation and are emotionally handcuffed to it

c) she could very well be special and you need to up your game (not PUA game but YOU)

Time takes care of all of the above.

The great thing is that all of the lessons come to you when you need them, so don't fear. It's life and its constantly changing.

As for your checklist, I have been mulling over writing a post about expectation management. You gotta have some give and take, no girl is going to waltz in and tick all the boxes.

It's mathematically impossible (given the constraint of time) to screen every girl to meet that. It's always a gamble and in a funny way, that's the where the beauty and excitement of it lies.

Then again, I don't know you or her, I am just a guy on the internet who is figuring out women and relationships too.

For what it's worth, I am extremely happy and have been, in the domain of women, for a long time now.
(This post was last modified: 12-29-2018 12:18 PM by Noir.)
12-29-2018 11:57 AM
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Post: #50
RE: LTR/Marriage master thread. The why, who, when, where and how.
@redbeard

You make a good argument. From a moral standpoint you're right, I would be wasting the prime of her life. I'm certainly too young to be looking for a wife right now, and she is a depreciating asset while the opposite is true here. Both of our plans are focused on professional development and enjoyment of our lives at the moment without the outlook for kids. I'm certain that will change though. She has strong female game, as no woman has put her hooks in me like she has.

I am interested in kids, just not right now. Even though my income could easily support a family, it wouldn't be fair to them to have their dad out of the house working all the time.

You are right in saying I don't have the game to deal with an LTR with strong girl game. I definitely do not right now, and that's something I will have to work on. Much like you, I'm think going to go ahead and see what happens so that I can learn the lesson and then when I'm in my 30s and in a better position to start a family I will be able to keep my pimp hand strong. I'd be going in with the understanding that this probably won't last.

Thank you for the tough talk, I needed that.

@Noir

Much respect for you as well. I love reading your posts too, I can tell you're a cerebral guy and have a good connection to your emotions. I can see you as a Lothario type (which is how I see myself). Nice use of the investment pun, I read your post the first time when I was high and I got a good laugh out of that.

It is hard to not be cautious, but as my knowledge of game has expanded it's become pretty clear to me that a lot of what I've read is comprised of keyboard warriors flexing who haven't actually experienced it themselves, which leads me to my next point.

You're right. I need to go for it and see what happens. My pimp hand is great when it comes to chicks I don't see a future with. I'm going to jump in and see where it ends up. As you mention, I've got plenty to get up for in the morning right now, and I will enjoy my time in the domain of women. Much like you, I'm endlessly grateful for all the experiences I've been able to have with them, and will happily take many more!

As for expectation management, I agree. No girl is going to check all the boxes, but I believe that you should have major things you aren't willing to compromise on that are shared by the other party. In business and in life, I've found this to be very successful for me. Write that post though, I'd love to read it, and I'm sure it's going to contain many nuggets that would be very beneficial to the guys here.

If I may ask, why did you break it off with your ex? What was leading you apart?

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(This post was last modified: 12-30-2018 03:23 PM by Investment Bro.)
12-30-2018 03:12 PM
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