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The Toronto Star: The Challenge of Reporting On China
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Suits Offline
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The Toronto Star: The Challenge of Reporting On China
Quote:How Ottawa bureau reporter Alex Ballingall covered the prime minister’s trip to China amid failed trade talks.


The [trip home] on the plane capped what was a challenging four-day trip for reporters, with hard to come by information — from both the notoriously controlling Chinese government, and from Canadian officials.

The prime minister was travelling to China to build stronger trade and investment links. Many reporters who travelled with Trudeau expected that he was setting the stage for formal free trade talks with the Asian nation — talks that ultimately did not get off the ground during the trip.

Going into the trip, there was good reason to expect the two countries would launch formal free-trade talks.

Why? Because the Chinese officials inferred that it was a possibility and the Canadian officials were dumb enough to optimistically assuming it would happen?

Quote:China’s ambassador to Canada, Lu Shaye, had said publicly that his country wanted a trade deal. And the contingent of staffers and cabinet ministers accompanying Trudeau for a series of meetings with high-ranking Chinese government leaders left the impression that trade talks were imminent.

So it was with some surprise that reporters learned following discussions between Trudeau and Premier Li Keqiang that no formal trade talks would be launched. While the two leaders characterized their discussions as “productive,” talks were held up, the leaders said.

The question was, why? Getting a clear answer wouldn’t be easy for reporters on the trip, said Ballingall.

There never will be a clear answer. The Chinese will use the possibility of giving the Canadian politicians what the want to extract real concessions in exchange for absolutely nothing.

The "possibility" is simply one game piece on their diplomacy chess board.

Quote:For one, the only opportunity for Canadian reporters to ask questions of Chinese leaders was cancelled.

Of course it was. The all important Chinese officials aren't going to risk ending up in a position where they are forced to answer tough questions. In China, powerful people never fail to use that power to benefit themselves in best way possible.

Leaders have to do this in countries where ideals like transparency are believed in and where elected officials are expected to serve their populous (even if they don't), but the Chinese are not limited by the small minded thinking that the powerful owe anything to the weak.

Quote:When information is scarce it is difficult to provide a full picture, much less representations from both sides.

Ya, try registering a business here and you'll learn all about intentionally scarce information.

Quote:China is a country long known for its restrictive press freedoms. [This reporter] also discovered that Canadian officials were just as tight-lipped on this trip about what delegates from both countries were discussing.

That's because the Chinese officials are stonewalling them with vague statements. They don't know anything more than anyone else.

Quote:Later, at a press conference held at Trudeau’s hotel in Beijing without Premier Li, [this report] asked the prime minister what issues or obstacles were holding them up. The answer he got wasn’t forthcoming.

“He said there was no ‘single issue’ and underlined that trade talks between China and Canada would be a big deal, given the size of China’s economy and the fact that it would be China’s first trade negotiations with a G7 country," stated a reporter. "It would have been very interesting to hear the Chinese leadership answer that question, but we never had a chance to ask.”

In the end, to help make up for the lack of concrete official information, [this reporter] spoke to Canadian industry representatives and trade experts to get some context and insight to provide to readers.

“I made sure to state clearly that they were speculating about what was going on behind closed doors, since neither government was forthcoming — at least in a specific way — about why the trade talks were held up,” he said. “I just worked as hard as I could to get as much information as possible and then was careful to report it accurately and fairly.”

No big shocker here. The Chinese government officials are playing the Canadian jackass politicians that same way they played Trump, appealed to his ego and sent him home empty handed.
(This post was last modified: 12-22-2017 08:40 PM by Suits.)
12-22-2017 08:40 PM
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The Beast1 Offline
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RE: The Toronto Star: The Challenge of Reporting On China
Time to tariff the shit out of China. I'm getting sick of their antics.
12-22-2017 09:00 PM
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RE: The Toronto Star: The Challenge of Reporting On China
Quote:Of course it was. The all important Chinese officials aren't going to risk ending up in a position where they are forced to answer tough questions.

Tough questions? It's the Toronto Star, aka 'we're even further left than Trotsky was.'

But what really happened? Trudeau is a moron, who by the way just committed some ethics violations, and the Chinese probably think we're morons because somehow he was able to get elected here. If he had any fucking balls, any property owned by Chinese nationals with spurious financials would be taken from them - sure he'd just give the windfall to returning Isis terrorists or whatever, but still.
12-22-2017 09:23 PM
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RE: The Toronto Star: The Challenge of Reporting On China
(12-22-2017 09:23 PM)Nonpareil Wrote:  
Quote:Of course it was. The all important Chinese officials aren't going to risk ending up in a position where they are forced to answer tough questions.

Tough questions? It's the Toronto Star, aka 'we're even further left than Trotsky was.'

But what really happened? Trudeau is a moron, who by the way just committed some ethics violations, and the Chinese probably think we're morons because somehow he was able to get elected here. If he had any fucking balls, any property owned by Chinese nationals with spurious financials would be taken from them - sure he'd just give the windfall to returning Isis terrorists or whatever, but still.

The canadian reporters will go off topic into questions fitted for Canada but not China.

Either SJW questions, or human rights/democratic questions.

Some of the top CPC has already infiltrated Canada, follow the donation money, large chunks Chinese.

Heck Canada is already going to help China with extradition and handing over properties owned by those wanted by the CPC

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12-22-2017 09:52 PM
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RE: The Toronto Star: The Challenge of Reporting On China
(12-22-2017 09:00 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  Time to tariff the shit out of China. I'm getting sick of their antics.

It's not that simple.

Once China joined that WTO, other countries became obligated to charge only the universal tariffs that all members of the organization agreed to charge each other as a set standard.

China on the other hand, is skilled at exploiting every loophole possible to prevent anyone from selling anything in their country.

There are official and unofficial barriers preventing anyone from earning money in China without the government officials there deciding that they are OK with it.

You are basically at the mercy of dozens of lowly paid local officials any time you try to do anything in China. The Chinese way of thinking is that people should only do their jobs if there is something in it for them. Even government officials believe this. So, if they don't personally gain something by approving the importation of a product, they won't. They'll create some BS reason, like that the product failed safety testing or they'll just refuse to process the paperwork and say that it's still being worked on. You could wait for years and their excuse would remain the same.

With the growth of Internet shopping in the last decade, the government just recently decided to ban foreign businesses and individuals from partaking in online sales. If they want to sell something over the Internet, they can only do it through a Chinese intermediate (who will want their cut). I don't believe that the WTO regulates such things, so it's just one more barrier to entry.

The Chinese have a long standing policy of limiting the number of foreign films shown in China to a very small number. They've recently upped the ante with the Chinese Film Bureau literally telling Chinese cinemas that they will PAY THEM CASH if at least 55% of their films earnings are from domestic films.

This is necessary because art is so controlled in China that their local films suck and people only want to wait foreign films, even though the number shown is also limited.

Additional limitations make it tough for Internet companies to deliver SaaS products to consumers in China.

Basically, the Chinese authorities do just enough to pretend to follow WTO regulations while doing everything they can in the their power to ensure that no one benefits from China's growing middle class and uber rich except for the Chinese themselves (and preferable not all Chinese, but rather whoever has done the best job bribing the government officials who will decide who will get rich and who won't).

I'm not sure how aware the leaders of countries like Canada and the US are as to how this works. I don't think that they are entirely clueless. More so, it appears that they care about keeping big business happy. China will allow big foreign businesses to earn enough in China to keep them happy so that they don't harass their own governments to force China to honour their WTO agreements and then basically shut out all the little guys (like me and you) who don't have the elected government's ear.
12-22-2017 09:58 PM
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RE: The Toronto Star: The Challenge of Reporting On China
(12-22-2017 09:00 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  Time to tariff the shit out of China. I'm getting sick of their antics.

The time to do that was the 1960's when America had a big grip on everyone else's balls while their own were unmolested.

But you blokes traded that dominance for cheap shit to prop up your standard of living while your own industry base was hollowed out.

So now you might have a squirrel grip on China but they have a hand down your pants too.

No easy way out, I'm afraid.
12-22-2017 11:50 PM
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RE: The Toronto Star: The Challenge of Reporting On China
(12-22-2017 11:50 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  
(12-22-2017 09:00 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  Time to tariff the shit out of China. I'm getting sick of their antics.

The time to do that was the 1960's when America had a big grip on everyone else's balls while their own were unmolested.

But you blokes traded that dominance for cheap shit to prop up your standard of living while your own industry base was hollowed out.

So now you might have a squirrel grip on China but they have a hand down your pants too.

No easy way out, I'm afraid.

America once declared tariffs against Britain, who outproduced America on everything, and managed just fine.

The pain will be tough at first, but like getting back to the gym after a few months you'll be feeling the gains in no time.

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12-23-2017 12:35 AM
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RE: The Toronto Star: The Challenge of Reporting On China
(12-23-2017 12:35 AM)Samseau Wrote:  
(12-22-2017 11:50 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  
(12-22-2017 09:00 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  Time to tariff the shit out of China. I'm getting sick of their antics.

The time to do that was the 1960's when America had a big grip on everyone else's balls while their own were unmolested.

But you blokes traded that dominance for cheap shit to prop up your standard of living while your own industry base was hollowed out.

So now you might have a squirrel grip on China but they have a hand down your pants too.

No easy way out, I'm afraid.

America once declared tariffs against Britain, who outproduced America on everything, and managed just fine.

The pain will be tough at first, but like getting back to the gym after a few months you'll be feeling the gains in no time.

It'll be interesting to see how the new tax structure will affect this. Looks like a lot of American business is coming back to America.

I'm not a businessman; I'm a business, Man
12-23-2017 08:43 AM
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RE: The Toronto Star: The Challenge of Reporting On China
I dont get it. Why does China get shit for using manipulation and deceit to get an upper hand? Isn't that how the West, and especially the US, operates as well?
12-23-2017 09:13 AM
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RE: The Toronto Star: The Challenge of Reporting On China
(12-23-2017 09:13 AM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  I dont get it. Why does China get shit for using manipulation and deceit to get an upper hand? Isn't that how the West, and especially the US, operates as well?

My manipulation and deceit is okay, but if you do the same thing then you're just a horrible asshole!
12-23-2017 02:24 PM
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RE: The Toronto Star: The Challenge of Reporting On China
(12-23-2017 09:13 AM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  I dont get it. Why does China get shit for using manipulation and deceit to get an upper hand? Isn't that how the West, and especially the US, operates as well?

I don't know anything about international trade, so I can't comment on the validity of your statement. But assuming it's true, the answer is simply China has no game. People let a lot of shit slide if you've got game, but conversely they're very harsh if you have no game.

If you could categorize nations along Vox Day's sociosexual hierarchy, China would fall squarely in the gamma category.

This meme comes to mind:

[Image: 693.png]

They're very unlikeable on the international stage.

* supporting North Korea
* invading/occupying Tibet
* anti-democracy, 1999 Tianmen Square fiasco
* constantly picking fights with neighbors
* stealing IP from foreign companies
* supposedly cheating at Olympic Games with under-16y old gymnasts

That's some absolutely horrible PR, i.e. no game. At least when the US invades countries, it does so under the pretense of freeing the people from a megalomaniac dictator. In contrast, forcing the Dalai Lama to flee his nation and go into exile looks awful.

Vox Day mentioned gammas believe they're "secret kings" - they believe they're absolutely amazing and everyone else is just too stupid to realize that they should be king (hence "secret king"). As a consequence, they have a habit of lashing out whenever they feel insulted. That's China. See meme above and their response to Trump interacting with Taiwan.

Here's a relevant story - one I can speak about with a bit more authority:

In nuclear fusion research, there's a huge project being built in France called ITER, which is a collaboration between 7 entities (EU, Japan, China, India, South Korea, the US and Russia). Years ago, they were discussing which nation would build what part of the fusion reactor. In magnetic confinement fusion, the "wall" is an extremely complex set of structures. China threw a hissy fit because they were insulted by the notion they couldn't build a wall. Because you know, the Great Wall of China...

Most sane nations would pick the areas they're strong in. But leave it to China, the secret-king of nations, with no prior experience with tokamak walls, to get pissy about being told they can't build a tokamak wall. Willing to torpedo the entire project to salvage their own ego, all because once upon a time they built a large stone wall...classic gamma. (it worked out in the end, but it took a whole lot of effort to get China to concede)

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(This post was last modified: 12-24-2017 07:20 AM by Genghis Khan.)
12-24-2017 07:18 AM
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RE: The Toronto Star: The Challenge of Reporting On China
^^^

[Image: tenor.gif?itemid=3483148]

Calling China a Gamma country is spot on.

Forget about; the rampant environmental degradation, comical levels of corruption, 'I drive a Bugatti while the farmers living behind me live on 15¥ a day' levels of wealth disparity, human rights violations out the ass, commonplace shady business practices and IP theft, the ridiculously dysfunctional and impractical language and the general slovenliness and poor manners of the culture (see: the shitty reputation of Chinese tourists, not at all unearned)

...We believe in retarded shit like feng shui, TCM, geomantic energy, 'face' and filial piety cranked louder than a Van Halen concert, 5000 years of history, bro!
(This post was last modified: 12-24-2017 02:13 PM by Nonpareil.)
12-24-2017 02:12 PM
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RE: The Toronto Star: The Challenge of Reporting On China
China gets shit because the west is at least trying not to be a huge dick to everyone as a way of moving humanity forward.

China, on the other hand, sees it as its glorious ordained future to fuck over everyone in their west for "moar stuff!" There is a HUGE superiority complex that the government fosters in the average person. The only way that works is if they dickswing hard and say "look! We're getting you what you want from the oh so oppressive west that ruined us 200 years ago."

Now, to anyone with a half-working brain, China is not clever so much as underhanded and deceitful. The west is very vulnerable to signal spoofing. We assume everyone has our ethical systems and operates so that we can all win together. China givs out the signal that they're playing on team "humanity" but china's really just on team "suck up all the resources in the world that you possibly can and think of the consequences later."

That's why I laugh when people like LibertySeaCuck take their 1000 year plan talk seriously. It's lip service and posturing on their part. At the rate they're going, they're gonna get halted in their tracks once the other 100+ nations out there realize they're just more of the same thieving, conniving nonsense that got humanity here in the first place.

They're not powerful so much as sneaky and exploitative. That shit works when people assume you're cool, but as the West wakes up to it, China has to resort to silly Kindergarten arguments like "yOU GUYS DID IT TOO!" while they run around with their fingers in their ears.

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(This post was last modified: 12-24-2017 03:16 PM by Fortis.)
12-24-2017 03:15 PM
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RE: The Toronto Star: The Challenge of Reporting On China
(12-24-2017 03:15 PM)Fortis Wrote:  China gets shit because the west is at least trying not to be a huge dick to everyone as a way of moving humanity forward.

Oh yea, I guess bombing the ME to smithereens, supporting shady Islamic regimes, and other covert shirt is all part and parcel of "trying not to be a huge dick to everyone as a way of moving humanity forward" Laugh GTFO with that nonsense.

I see nothing wrong with the Chinese taking advantage. Play or get played.
12-24-2017 05:04 PM
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RE: The Toronto Star: The Challenge of Reporting On China
(12-24-2017 07:18 AM)Genghis Khan Wrote:  Snip Summary: China, as a country, is Gamma.

Damn, you just described Asians to a T...well most of them, especially Chinese folks.

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12-24-2017 05:27 PM
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RE: The Toronto Star: The Challenge of Reporting On China
Down here in Australia, it seems like the two paths for our future are either becoming the Southern outpost of the Caliphate or Finlandisation by China. I'm not too fond of either, but better the Chinese than Islam. The Chinese also have problems with the Turkic Uyghurs in the Xinjiang region, so they may help quell the Caliphate.

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12-24-2017 06:01 PM
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RE: The Toronto Star: The Challenge of Reporting On China
I didn't say they shouldn't do what they can to get ahead, but they're hardly the angels they pretend they to be.

I will be checking my PMs weekly, so you can catch me there. I will not be posting.
12-24-2017 08:56 PM
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RE: The Toronto Star: The Challenge of Reporting On China
(12-24-2017 08:56 PM)Fortis Wrote:  I didn't say they shouldn't do what they can to get ahead, but they're hardly the children of the Dragon Emperor they pretend they to be.

Fixed.
12-25-2017 03:16 AM
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RE: The Toronto Star: The Challenge of Reporting On China
Like it or not, a lot of Chinese success is built upon the insatiable American desire for cheap shit. Blame the boomer generation for selling out the country to multinational interests. It didn't have to be that way. You had mom n' pop shops in the 40s and 50s, local butchers and whatnot. Then the hippies decided that buying polyester T-shirts for $2 was far more important to the national economy than maintaining meaningful communities. Enter Walmart, Target, and Stop n Shop.

[Image: 23s7j1j.jpg]

That line from Sicario where the Brolin character says something like "unless you can convince the population from snorting that shit, maintain is the best we can do" can be applied to this situation.
12-25-2017 11:02 AM
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RE: The Toronto Star: The Challenge of Reporting On China
Normally I'd say "eh, free market"

But with China so obviously manipulating their economy, it's time to drop the tariff bomb!
12-26-2017 09:58 AM
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RE: The Toronto Star: The Challenge of Reporting On China
^ This is the other thing.

China constantly whines that no one trusts them, but they actively manipulate their markets and fuck over foreign entities that try to play fair. If you fuck people, prepare for them to stop playing fairly with you. It's an old, old game. Personally, I don't fault them for playing it, but I do fault them for whining when everyone else sees through their nonsense and tells them to fuck off.

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12-27-2017 03:48 AM
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RE: The Toronto Star: The Challenge of Reporting On China
After living in China for 2.5 years, I'm seeing more and more the not so pleasant sides of China. The only reason I'm still here is that I'm building businesses, otherwise, I'd be out of here in the next 5 minutes!

One MAJOR point that really needs to be addressed by western countries, is the fact that we Westerners should follow a reciprocal set of policies on things with China. If say foreigners cannot buy houses and land in China, cannot work on a spousal visa or working on our business while holding a legit and proper business visa, that we have to report to the local police station (like a criminal) each time we return to China while being in China legally, or upon arriving at a very commercial city by train, being stopped and told to go to the police station booth at that train station to check your passport, then the very same should apply to Chinese when abroad. As simple as that.

Not to mention that they're making it increasingly difficult for foreigners to live and lead a normal life here by banning all the apps that we are using daily for both business and to keep in touch with friends and family. They want to ban Skype, Whatsapp, Youtube etc? Let's ban Wechat in the West and see how they'll react! Smile Not to mention how hard it is to get the kind of food (say real proper bread and cheese or plain natural yogurt!) and other thing that we take for granted in the western world.

It is time for the Western leaders and countries to grow a pair of balls and stand up to them and stop letting them pillage our resources, our lands, our expertise and knowledge and dumping their cheap fake crap onto our markets while they put all kinds of barrages and BS "regulations" to allow us to do business in their land and access to their market.

Yes China is the biggest market in the world, however, it's only ONE single market, there are plenty of other markets out there that could be as lucrative for the smart entrepreneurs who have something valuable to bring to the market. The lure of that gigantic market is what is making us as western entrepreneurs and our countries being played. The lure and allure of access to that gigantic market is their only leverage on us. The root of all their power on us. Let's show them that there are other markets and that we don't depend nor need them as much as they do, then take away their power from us. And see how long their little game will last and their economy bubble popped in no time.

Personally, I'm already looking at suppliers for our brand of products in other countries as we speak as I'm just sick of tired of all the BS that we had to go through just to place one order with them!

Being on the ground, it's more and more obvious that the Chinese are becoming more and more cocky and arrogant. There's a very strong and palpable sense of superiority and nationalism that is fostered at all levels. The recent Lone Wolf movie, which was a blockbuster here is a great example of that.

Not sure if this is the best policy moving forward if they want to improve their image abroad and want to be the next super power culturally speaking. America and the West, their cultural dominance was built around a positive, likeable coolness about them, their culture, their traditions, their habits. The Chinese, all they're doing with their overly aggressive and overly arrogant approach, risk alienating themselves with pretty much the entire world if they continue on that path. Sure they don't give a damn, one could easily respond, but that kind of bullying attitude can only go for so long before the others decide it's time to stop that bullying, and then it'd be a rude awakening....

As to why that clown of Trudeau was received like a nobody is that because he is a nobody! Time for us Canadians to elect someone who does actually know what the hell he's doing, who has proper real world experience in both business and politics and has charisma. All things that Trudeau sorely lacks. Time for Canada to have our own version of a powerful, manly LEADER, like Vlad or The Don! Then see how we'll get respected by these leaders outside of our country!
(This post was last modified: 12-27-2017 04:09 AM by Vacancier Permanent.)
12-27-2017 03:59 AM
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Post: #23
RE: The Toronto Star: The Challenge of Reporting On China
Not sure I see the common theme in this thread. China has a ton of problems and all foreigners living there will feel some type of frustration on a daily basis. However, there is no denying that the power gap (militarily, technologically, economically) with the West is slowly closing. All Westerners, both shitlibs and alt right alike, should pay more attention to what is going on in China.

They are directly meddling in Australian politics, shutting down criticism of the CCP in many countries, have completed one of the largest illegal territorial grabs in recent history (south China sea), are allowing xenophobia to grow among their people, and want to dominate all the industries of the future. But yet, the U.S. media still sees Russian meddling as the biggest threat. Absolutely unbelievable.

Regarding the OP article, Trump also shut down questions from reporters during his trip to China so how can we get upset that they didn't allow questions during Trudeau's visit?
12-27-2017 08:42 AM
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Post: #24
RE: The Toronto Star: The Challenge of Reporting On China
What an absolute humiliation for Canada.



I really feel for the conservatives there, christ Trudeau is such an embarrassment

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12-27-2017 04:38 PM
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Post: #25
RE: The Toronto Star: The Challenge of Reporting On China
(12-27-2017 03:59 AM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  After living in China for 2.5 years, I'm seeing more and more the not so pleasant sides of China. The only reason I'm still here is that I'm building businesses, otherwise, I'd be out of here in the next 5 minutes!

Personally, I'm already looking at suppliers for our brand of products in other countries as we speak as I'm just sick of tired of all the BS that we had to go through just to place one order with them!

I thought it might be interesting to contrast this perspective with how you felt when first arriving to live full-time in China.

(09-20-2015 05:44 AM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  China is THE land of opportunties par excellence, in every aspect.

China is THE hottest market in the world right now and for the foreseeable future. The locals spending power is exploding, their thirst for foreign goods and everything exotic (read not Chinese) is insatiable. The Chinese have money and they are looking to spend it on foreign goods and foreign expertise. This is where it's GREAT news for us, foreigners in China. I've had way more job offers thrown my way in the 2 weeks that I've been here and even before I got here than in the past 6 months in Toronto! And mind you, these are not just boring, mind numbing, soul crushing cubicle J.O.B.S!

The craziest thing is that I've had these offers without even trying other than just doing a short introduction on the expat wechat group in HZ through a contact from the Enter China private community! I can't even imagine what I'd get if i were to actively start looking or even better, started attending networking events! It simply is mind blowing!

Whether it's importing foreign goods into China, building lucrative ecommerce businesses from China or taking advantage of the incredible opportunities that manufacturing in China affords us or becoming a connector between Chinese companies and foreign companies or foreign companies getting into China, the sky really is the limit here.

So far, I've been having a blast. People have been very friendly and nice to me, both at work and the people I meet every day.

Lots and lots of options! That's the beauty about China. There are options and opportunities everywhere. It's just a matter of picking one, focusing on it and not get sidetracked and distracted by other "shining objects" as they will be thrown at you every single day. Multiple times a day!

China is happening, it's a land of unlimited opportunities. In China, even as a relatively young and inexperienced guy, you can get access to or walk your way to interesting and fulfilling positions and career within a short time. Why? Because China is happening and they are hungry for Western minds, ideas, creativity, expertise and experience.

As soon as you walk the streets in China, you notice an air of excitement around you. A land filled with unlimited opportunities where dreams can and do come true. I have rarely been as excited as I am now and I've rarely felt as alive as I have been ever since I arrived in China almost 2 weeks ago. The excitement is very palpable. Not just in me but in anyone who's got any ounce of ambition in life.

Guys, I invite you to join me, on my Journey in the land of Endless Opportunities, CHINA!

I wonder how if feels to re-read some of the things your wrote two and a half years ago and how much your thinking still resembles your initial reaction to moving here.

I don't ask this to pick on you, but rather because I think there's some value to those who are considering China in their career plans.

Your excitement about moving to China is not surprising. Many of us who have lived here experienced a similar exciting upon first arriving.

The big question is how many of those "unlimited opportunities" panned out? How many of them resulted in people not keeping their promises and being stonewalled by local Chinese folks or other expats who were hoping that you'd do all the work and they could just sit back and count the cash. However, this discussion is off-topic for the purposes of this thread, so I'll address in the original thread.

(12-27-2017 03:59 AM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  One MAJOR point that really needs to be addressed by western countries, is the fact that we Westerners should follow a reciprocal set of policies on things with China. If say foreigners cannot buy houses and land in China, cannot work on a spousal visa or working on our business while holding a legit and proper business visa, that we have to report to the local police station (like a criminal) each time we return to China while being in China legally, or upon arriving at a very commercial city by train, being stopped and told to go to the police station booth at that train station to check your passport, then the very same should apply to Chinese when abroad. As simple as that.

I've had similar thoughts. It may be a stretch for Canada (or any other country) to implement a different process of business registration for the citizens of different countries, but it would be more or reasonable to have reciprocal visa offerings. For example, the people of any country that does not allow Canadians to become citizens through in a straightforward and reliable method should not be allowed to become citizens in Canada.

If their country doesn't permit student visa holders to work 20 hours per week while studying, then Canada shouldn't permit them to work with a student visa either.

If marrying a citizen of a specific country doesn't lead to citizenship or at least permanent residency in said country, then their citizens shouldn't be granted the same opportunity in Canada.

Fair is fair.

However, this is all extremely unlikely to occur. The visa policies in Western nations are not dictated based on what is fair or a desire to pressure other countries to be hospitable to their citizens. The big driver seems to be the needs of the elite, who need plenty of skilled and unskilled workers willing to seek employment for the low, low wages.

Still, it's nice to dream. If Trudeau wanted to be respected by China, implementing such a policy (not just for China, but for all countries) would stop them in their tracks. The CCP and the Chinese business elite would not enjoy being suddenly unable to send their children to countries like Canada to build a life and hide their ill-gotten gains, just in case a quick escape is ever required.

(12-27-2017 03:59 AM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  Not to mention how hard it is to get the kind of food (say real proper bread and cheese or plain natural yogurt!) and other thing that we take for granted in the western world.

I hope you aren't being serious about this one.

(12-27-2017 03:59 AM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  It is time for the Western leaders and countries to grow a pair of balls and stand up to them and stop letting them pillage our resources, our lands, our expertise and knowledge and dumping their cheap fake crap onto our markets while they put all kinds of barrages and BS "regulations" to allow us to do business in their land and access to their market.

This might happen if our leaders gave a damn about us ordinary people.

(12-27-2017 03:59 AM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  Yes China is the biggest market in the world, however, it's only ONE single market, there are plenty of other markets out there that could be as lucrative for the smart entrepreneurs who have something valuable to bring to the market.

This is true and this is why my own business strategy doesn't specifically target China. It would be great to make money in China, but I've approached the idea of doing so with two goals:

(1) Create products that can easy navigate past all the BS efforts to make it next to impossible for non-Chinese to make money here. Digital products for example, are a great means of doing this. The Chinese can ban everything that they want to ban, including specific domain names, but my 90% of my customers would have VPNs, so there's really nothing to stop a person from selling a digital product in China, provided that they have a means of collecting payment (which is 95% of the challenge, but my strategy deals with that).

(2) Be prepared to walk away from attempting sales in China if it simply isn't worth the trouble. I'm seriously considering charging a "tax" in China to compensate for the excess barriers to entry there, because otherwise, there are far better markets to target.

That being said, there's a lot that can be accomplished here if you fly under the radar, so I've been creating products designed specifically to ease doing that.

(12-27-2017 03:59 AM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  Being on the ground, it's more and more obvious that the Chinese are becoming more and more cocky and arrogant. There's a very strong and palpable sense of superiority and nationalism that is fostered at all levels. The recent Lone Wolf movie, which was a blockbuster here is a great example of that.

What I like about the Chinese is that they are not particularly racist. They aren't making foreigners sit at the back of the bus and they are always more than happy to accept your business if you've got cash to spend. This isn't always the case in Japan and Korea (where people are very much racist).

They are, however, very nationalist. In fact, people just about everywhere are extremely proud of their countries. I've concluded that this is in part due to a desire to have a meaningful identity, in the same way that everyone sees themselves as above average. It's no shock that just about everyone in the world likes to think of their country or culture as ultimately superior to others.

Even for natives of countries that are clearly inferior, they'll come up with BS reason to subtly infer the superiority of their identity based on nothing more than the dumb luck that had them born in a particular country.

This is why people from Latin countries won't shut the fuck up about their "Latin passion" or why Americans like to make jokes (that usually make no sense at all) about Canada.

It's no surprise that the average person cultivates value from their national identity, because 99% of them don't have great lives. So, instead they draw a sense of personal value from being Chinese. The current national belief is that they are genetically superior to all other peoples and if the evil foreign powers hadn't "broken the rules of fair play" back in the day, they'd be 100% running the whole world today.

This not only explains why they can simultaneously live in a third world country and believe themselves to be culturally superior, but it also serves as a justification for any dirty business tricks they pull on non-Chinese folks, because as far as they see it, they are just helping to speed up the return of a natural balance to the universe (where China calls the shots and everyone else is grateful just to be tossed some table scraps from time to time).

(12-27-2017 03:59 AM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  Not sure if this is the best policy moving forward if they want to improve their image abroad and want to be the next super power culturally speaking.

They don't really give a damn. Aside from the loss of face (this phrase really means "revealing your inferiority") that comes with their tourist behaving badly, they don't value or enforce good behavior in their own society. This is a country where the only thing that matters is winning and winning constantly.

That being said, I have to give credit to all the Beijingers who have learned to line up orderly for subway cars. It's just too bad that they still insist on shoving their way on board before those coming off have had a chance to do so. Because #winning!

(12-27-2017 03:59 AM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  As to why that clown of Trudeau was received like a nobody is that because he is a nobody!

But try telling that to him.
12-28-2017 11:16 PM
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