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Is South Africa on the path to becoming the next Zimbabwe?
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RexImperator Offline
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Post: #1
Is South Africa on the path to becoming the next Zimbabwe?
It certainly looks like it:

dailymail.co.u Wrote:'We are not calling for the slaughter of white people - at least for now': South African parliament votes to SEIZE white-owned land as experts warn of violent repercussions

[Image: 49A6193500000578-5443599-The_country_s_c...041535.jpg]

By Ben Hill For Mailonline and Afp
PUBLISHED: 00:24 EST, 28 February 2018 | UPDATED: 20:52 EST, 28 February 2018

White South African farmers will be removed from their land after a landslide vote in parliament.

The country's constitution is now likely to be amended to allow for the confiscation of white-owned land without compensation, following a motion brought by radical Marxist opposition leader Julius Malema.

It passed by 241 votes for to 83 against after a vote on Tuesday, and the policy was a key factor in new president Cyril Ramaphosa's platform after he took over from Jacob Zuma in February.

Mr Malema said the time for 'reconciliation is over'. 'Now is the time for justice,' News24 reported.

'We must ensure that we restore the dignity of our people without compensating the criminals who stole our land.'

Mr Malema has a long-standing commitment to land confiscation without compensation. In 2016 he told his supporters he was 'not calling for the slaughter of white people - at least for now'.

A 2017 South African government audit found white people owned 72 per cent of farmland.

Rural affairs minister for the ruling African National Congress party said 'The ANC unequivocally supports the principle of land expropriation without compensation'.

'There is no doubt about it, land shall be expropriated without compensation.'

Freedom Front Plus party leader Pieter Groenewald said the decision to strip white farmers of their land would cause 'unforeseen consequences that is not in the interest of South Africa'.

The deputy chief executive of civil rights group Afriforum said the motion was a violation of agreements made at the end of apartheid.

Parliament ordered its constitutional committee to report back on the issue by August 30.

Botched and often violent redistribution of land in neighbouring Zimbabwe under ex-leader Robert Mugabe left many farms in ruins, and the drop in production triggered an economic crisis that still haunts the country.

White farmers control 73 percent of arable land compared with 85 percent when apartheid ended in 1994, according to a recent study.

'The time for reconciliation is over; now is the time for justice,' EFF leader Julius Malema told parliament.

'It is about our dignity. We do not seek revenge... all that our people ever wanted is their land to which their dignity is rooted and founded.'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...-land.html

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(This post was last modified: 03-02-2018 12:43 PM by RexImperator.)
03-02-2018 12:43 PM
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RE: Is South Africa on the path to becoming the next Zimbabwe?
I guess this is one of those "to ask the question is to answer it" things but really, I imagine it will have something to do with how long their gold and diamond mines remain viable.

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03-02-2018 01:12 PM
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Praetor Lupus Offline
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RE: Is South Africa on the path to becoming the next Zimbabwe?
If any of our foreign aid is going towards that country, I'm certainly going to want to know why.

"The only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilised community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others...in the part which merely concerns himself, his independence is, of right, absolute." - John Stuart Mill, On Liberty
03-02-2018 01:15 PM
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Luvianka Offline
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RE: Is South Africa on the path to becoming the next Zimbabwe?
Pretty much! It's a tragedy!
By the way, don't you dare to ask President Trump to put pressure on the SA Government by threating to halt any kind of economic aid to Johanesburg in order to avoid this ongoing and outrageous dispossession against the White population of SA. The Donald has spent a lot of time and has been very enthusiastic supporting Bibi to strip away half of Jerusalem from the Palestinians. Even more, American support will continue when Israel decides to play its endgame strategy to kick off all the Palestinans from the West Bank and Gaza; and then to invade Lebanon up to the Litani river; and then Southwest Syria to grab as much land as possible.
Be fair and keep it classy, guys!

With God's help, I'll conquer this terrible affliction.

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Diaboli virtus in lumbar est -The Devil's virtue is in his loins.
(This post was last modified: 03-02-2018 01:38 PM by Luvianka.)
03-02-2018 01:25 PM
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porscheguy Offline
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RE: Is South Africa on the path to becoming the next Zimbabwe?
The current government on SA is really only focused on retribution against whites. But I find it increasingly difficult to feel much sympathy for the remaining whites. They should have gtfo years ago. They should have known that the same shit that happened to white farmers in Zimbabwe was going to happen to them in SA. Especially once the farm killings got going about 20 years ago.

What is amazing here is how unable they are to see what happened to Zimbabwe when they tried to “redistribute” white owned farms. Within a few years Zimbabwe’s largest export industry (farm goods) had largely failed, and Zimbabwe has spent the past 15 years collecting food aid.

Now that Mugabe is gone, they’ve replaced him with someone who may see the error of Mugabe’s ways, and he’s backing off of the remaining whites.

I have to laugh when liberals and others hold up South Africa as a beacon of progress. The only reason they’re cheering is because they see evil white people being put in their place. For them this is progress. They ignore the fact that all of the “social reforms” over the past 25 years have done nothing for your average black South African. Daily life has been on a steady decline since the end of apartheid. I don’t know what the solution is, but I think it’s past the point of blaming whitey for their troubles.
03-02-2018 01:53 PM
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RE: Is South Africa on the path to becoming the next Zimbabwe?
White farmers should leave South Africa and let it rot, because these Marxist cocksuckers will certainly destroy it.
03-02-2018 01:53 PM
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MikeInRealLife Offline
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RE: Is South Africa on the path to becoming the next Zimbabwe?
Is any civilized country actually willing to take the Boers in, though? There's no virtue-signaling in rescuing white people, after all.
03-02-2018 02:03 PM
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LEMONed IScream Offline
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RE: Is South Africa on the path to becoming the next Zimbabwe?
Short answer: Yes.

Long answer:

A BRITISH LEGAL EXPERT'S OPINION ON EXPROPRIATION OF LAND WITHOUT COMPENSATION

Response written by Mark Philip Malcolm Horn - London Barrister. * No one does business with a thief, and no one extends credit to a thief.

"You can not have land expropriation without compensation. It is illegal in international law. It is contrary to a dozen treaties that South Africa has signed and ratified. As such, it is a principle that is also enshrined in South African domestic law. You can not change the Constitution therefore to make it legal - Treaty law is superior law, it always applies.

The proposal, if directed at land held by the white community, would also contravene half a dozen international treaties, notably those condemning apartheid, that South Africa since the ANC took power, has signed and ratified.

The same argument applies above, but now with the ironic twist that any such initiative would result in the ANC being condemned under international law for actions that the world would condemn as being racist.

So no, it can not be done. When Mugabe tried this, the point was litigated. These were the legal conclusions. Now, Mugabe pushed ahead, so what happened?

Well, the claims for illegal expropriation still are valid in law - at some point the Zimbabwean Government will need to pay them.

The consequence of their illegal policy is not forgotten with time. If they ever want to be re-integrated into the global community, they will need to pay.

As to the consequences of such a policy - Zimbabwe is a good example. There are no sanction on Zimbabwe. That is a myth. The only sanctions are those targeted on Mugabe and a few of his associates, and they are in place because of human rights abuses.

The economy has crashed, there is a 90% unemployment rate, for the very simple fact that Zimbabwe has shown itself to be a thief. No one does business with a thief, and no one extends credit to a thief.

You can not run a modern economy without access to the international market, and for that you need credit. The Zimbabwean economy has declined by 70% from what it was at independence simply because no one does business with a thief.

So what would be the consequence of a policy of expropriation without compensation in South Africa? Well, as noted, such a policy would be illegal.

The international community will immediately take note that South Africa has become a rogue state. That is not too much to worry, about, its just political. There are plenty of rogue states around the world.

What would happen, however, in terms of South Africa's access to the international markets is of far more concern. South Africa would have signaled that property rights are insecure. That will mean that international investment in South Africa would come to a screeching halt.

This has been happening for many years in any event - that is why South Africa is now ranked no. 7 in gold mining, when it used to be no. 1.

It is why South Africa has a 27% unemployment rate, and a 50% youth unemployment rate. So the response could well be: "who cares, we do not need their investment". That may well indeed be true.

But, that is not where the real crisis occurs. South Africa needs access to international financial markets because it has a trade and budget deficit. It needs access to international financial markets to pay for its bloated public sector, and to pay social grants to all those unemployed people.

To raise that money, it needs the banks. Now this is where the consequences of a policy of expropriation without compensation hits home.

Banks have, as is the nature of banking, highly leveraged Balance Sheets. They lend as multiples of the assets they actually have. They need to conform with the Basel ratio's. If they have a rise in bad debt, they can easily wipe out their Balance Sheets - they then become bankrupt, and they collapse.

So what do you think will happen if land is expropriated without compensation to the Banks? The answer is, they will see a rise in bad debt, and they will collapse.

That is not the end of the story. South Africa has seen its black population rise from approximately 2.5 m in the mid 19th century, to its current level of 50 m. The 2.5 m may be taken as the sustainable level of the black population without the benefits of colonialism, and of modern agriculture.

That 2.5 m number is important, because only 13% of South Africa is suited for agriculture, and only 3% is high quality agricultural land. The vast majority of South African agricultural land requires the application of modern technology.

Farming in South Africa is highly capital intensive. Farmers depend on bank lending not only to buy their farms, but also to provide essential working capital.

So, what happens if the land is expropriated without compensation, if the banks then collapse? Well it means no one is able to provide the essential working capital. If the farms then collapse, then up to 95% of the existing black population is at risk of starvation.
The banks can not access international markets, international lenders will not lend, South Africa then descends into chaos. At point, the international community would probably intervene military to restore order. As such, South Africa would have become yet another Failed State in the traditional African mold."

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03-02-2018 03:08 PM
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RE: Is South Africa on the path to becoming the next Zimbabwe?
Didn't Cape Town manage to run their water utilities so badly that they've run out of water?

Can't imagine that they are going to be much better at running farms.

Zim was an incredibly rich agricultural economy and mass farming methods were destroyed by Mugabe and his cronies. As has been mentioned before, if you were a white South African farmer you should have sold up and left years ago.
03-02-2018 03:20 PM
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AngloHispanic Offline
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RE: Is South Africa on the path to becoming the next Zimbabwe?
Some intelligent, well-read, aware and practically-minded South Africans saw the writing on the wall a while back (just need to have a functioning brain, really) and decided to put their shoulder to the wheel:

https://suidlanders.org/

And have been preparing ever since. I have spoken to them, and they are a staunch and serious group.

Their emergency plan: https://suidlanders.org/our-emergency-plan/

Some thoughts on how all this fit in the big picture of globalist-statescraft: https://suidlanders.org/the-future-of-the-west/
(This post was last modified: 03-02-2018 04:24 PM by AngloHispanic.)
03-02-2018 04:22 PM
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nomadbrah Offline
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RE: Is South Africa on the path to becoming the next Zimbabwe?
A look into the future of non-majority white America.

Let this be a lesson.
03-02-2018 04:27 PM
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RE: Is South Africa on the path to becoming the next Zimbabwe?
While I don't doubt the ANC, in a desperate bid to win votes from the unemployed and underemployed black Marxist masses in the townships and rural areas all over South Africa, will pull off a Mugabe or Chavez, I doubt the end game of SA and Zim will be in anyway similar whatsoever.

Keep in mind that in 2000 when Mugabe tried to seize the land in Zimbabwe, there were only 70,000 whites left of whom 4,000 were farmers, mostly the stranded descendants of British colonialists. No matter how based they might be, its impossible for 70,000 stranded colonialists of a former empire that has devolved into a leftist suicide cult country to fight for anything, and emigrating large scale and pulling out of the country with these numbers is easy and can be done largely under the radar.

On the other hand, South Africa as of 2018 has 4.5 million whites, of whom 40,000 are farmers. There's more whites in South Africa than Ireland or New Zealand. And while some Anglo-South Africans fit the profile of being stranded colonialists of the long gone British Empire, 3 million of these white South Africans are Afrikaners, who have achieved nationhood, a unique culture including a distinct language, severed pretty much all familial ties with Europe, and carved their history onto African land including fighting one of the bloodiest and most heroic anti-colonial wars against the British Empire. Another 1 million are Anglo-South Africans who permanently settled South Africa for so long that they know of no other homeland than South Africa, and have no intention otherwise.

So we have at least 4 million whites whose sole homeland is South Africa. And 4 million is more than big enough to muster together a military force if push comes to shove and carve out an Israel-like ethnostate somewhere within the current borders of South Africa, and too large to ethnically cleanse unless we are talking about WW2 levels of firepower and brutality. Seeing the current state of the SANDF, I doubt the ANC can achieve anywhere near that.

If the ANC really goes after them, being so used to a first world lifestyle, many whites, definitely in the hundreds of thousands if not up to 1 million will try to flee. It seems to me that there are still many libtard baizuo whites with heads buried in the sand in South Africa who insist that everything is OK and just Jacob Zuma was the problem; examples include Cape Town hipsters or the rich SUV driving MILFs in the Johannesburg gated communities. And even if conservative Afrikaners manage to immigrate to say, Australia, their children run the risk of turning their backs on their culture, "assimilate" to become loony liberal cunty Anglosphere hipsters. But given the current political environment, nobody will take in white South African refugees en masse, not even Russia which will might be in a full blown alliance with the ANC as they sever ties with the West trying to incite violence against their most productive 9% ethnic minority. Maybe a EE country like Ukraine will take them in, but even that's a big maybe. And as whites flee South Africa, the whole world will probably be calling that karma for being racists even if the refugees are liberals.

I'm surprised by the lack of an organized response to farm murders by white South Africans. I'm not seeing any organized groups uniting and whites there. AfriForum has done a lot but not enough in that kind of Marxist hatred-filled environment and the Suidlanders seem like a joke prepping for a decade on the fringes of white society in SA. On the political side, the Democratic Alliance, the main opposition party, is a bunch of kumbaya baizuos with their heads in the sand along with token British accented educated blacks. They even have almost the same logo as the Democrat Party under Obama! The "based" party in parliament, the Afrikaner nationalist Freedom Front Plus, seem like a joke with their 4 seats and not doing much except calling out the ANC from time to time and advocating for a Volkstaat in the middle of nowhere and centered around Orania which while has taken great strides, is still too far and too remote.

I've made a case both for, and against white survival in South Africa. I'm not sure which one will prevail. I don't think globalists will allow millions of white skulls carved out and hung on display in South Africa as a shock and awe genocide of whites in South Africa will probably mean a successful kebab removal all over Europe and a BBW built in record time along the Rio Grande River; of course this excludes the possibility that whites may very well be so cucked that they are willing to accept their own demise and stand by to see one of their tribes exterminated while doing nothing or even cheering it on.

As much as it pains me to point this out, ANC's number 1 ally is actually Russia. The ANC is also in the process of severing ties with Israel and like all other African nations a close political and economic relationship with China who don't care about blacks or whites per se but just have their eyes on SA's natural resources and geographic location. This means that the ANC is probably becoming an "anti globalist" country in the spirit of Cuba or Venezuela. And since whites are the sole serious alternative in SA plus all white South Africans see themselves as Westerners, historically have a chummy relationship with Israel, and natural allies of the West wanting a bulwark against complete Chinese domination of Africa, in a twist of events, the globalists might very well build a proper Afrikaner resistance movement perhaps from AfriForum and/or the Suidlanders and ignite a Balkan War situation out of this. Also, Western-based globalists might very well support and eventually nurture a successful Afrikaner state to prevent whites turning towards Russia to pit the rest of Europe against Russia, assuming Russia actually aids the ANC in any meaningful way. Plus the globalists probably see more value in Russia as a resources extracting exotic Oriental Turkic vassal state of China than as an advanced Slavic European heavyweight.
03-02-2018 06:48 PM
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RE: Is South Africa on the path to becoming the next Zimbabwe?
(03-02-2018 02:03 PM)MikeInRealLife Wrote:  Is any civilized country actually willing to take the Boers in, though? There's no virtue-signaling in rescuing white people, after all.

Aren't they Dutch heritage?
Wouldn't they have a claim to go there, if they wanted?

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03-02-2018 06:50 PM
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RE: Is South Africa on the path to becoming the next Zimbabwe?
to read the title of the thread is to answer it.
03-02-2018 07:09 PM
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RE: Is South Africa on the path to becoming the next Zimbabwe?
Good analysis.

(03-02-2018 06:48 PM)Aquarius Wrote:  So we have at least 4 million whites whose sole homeland is South Africa. And 4 million is more than big enough to muster together a military force if push comes to shove and carve out an Israel-like ethnostate somewhere within the current borders of South Africa, and too large to ethnically cleanse unless we are talking about WW2 levels of firepower and brutality. Seeing the current state of the SANDF, I doubt the ANC can achieve anywhere near that.

What ever happens, it'll be a war and not a massacre.

The SANDF is a quota driven mess, and they'll collapse if the White/Asian/Coloured troops bugger off.

White civilians know how to defend themselves with firearms, and normally this wouldn't be enough, but whilst the SANDF is in chaos, they'll have time to form an effective militia/resistance.

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03-02-2018 07:44 PM
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nomadbrah Offline
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RE: Is South Africa on the path to becoming the next Zimbabwe?
It would help if it wasn't that Afrikaners were there first.
(This post was last modified: 03-02-2018 07:53 PM by nomadbrah.)
03-02-2018 07:52 PM
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RE: Is South Africa on the path to becoming the next Zimbabwe?
I see the government of South Africa has watched Black Panther and is now on the path to being Wakanda 2.0.
03-02-2018 08:12 PM
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RE: Is South Africa on the path to becoming the next Zimbabwe?
This is madness. Surely you have people in the ANC who want to keep the white farmers on their land for the purely pragmatic reason of avoiding mass starvation. They have a roadmap for exactly what is going to happen in neighboring Zimbabwe and yet they are going down the exact same path! Not to mention the victims of land appropriation by previous governments are all dead and the current farmers were not alive in that time period. Buying the farmers out would be a middle solution which apparently the government does not want to pursue?

Do we have any South Africans on the forum who can lend their perspective?
03-02-2018 08:38 PM
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RE: Is South Africa on the path to becoming the next Zimbabwe?
(03-02-2018 08:12 PM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  I see the government of South Africa has watched Black Panther and is now on the path to being Wakanda 2.0.

A country full of gold and diamonds obviously has rich deposits of vibranium as well.
03-02-2018 09:11 PM
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RE: Is South Africa on the path to becoming the next Zimbabwe?
(03-02-2018 08:38 PM)n0000 Wrote:  This is madness. Surely you have people in the ANC who want to keep the white farmers on their land for the purely pragmatic reason of avoiding mass starvation. They have a roadmap for exactly what is going to happen in neighboring Zimbabwe and yet they are going down the exact same path! Not to mention the victims of land appropriation by previous governments are all dead and the current farmers were not alive in that time period. Buying the farmers out would be a middle solution which apparently the government does not want to pursue?

Do we have any South Africans on the forum who can lend their perspective?

Why would you stop your enemy from making stupid moves? Let them do this and record everything that happens.
03-02-2018 09:18 PM
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RE: Is South Africa on the path to becoming the next Zimbabwe?
I once watched a pro-Israeli documentary.

They asked this Palestinian: Would you rather go back to herding goats in these hills than live in the modern state of Israel.

Yes, he said.

I think the desire for blood and soil is strong even if it will eventually set you back.

I don't know how to solve that.
03-02-2018 09:32 PM
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CynicalContrarian Online
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Post: #22
RE: Is South Africa on the path to becoming the next Zimbabwe?
With the new communist in power (Ramaphosa), once the first farm is violently seized.
It will be Zimbabwe 2.0

Knew this was coming many, many years ago.
The march of globalism carries on.
Kind of surprised it took this long to upend South Africa though...

Perhaps the Kremlin colluding Mandela wanted to preserve his farcical 'good guy' image.
03-02-2018 11:20 PM
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RE: Is South Africa on the path to becoming the next Zimbabwe?
(03-02-2018 03:20 PM)Ski pro Wrote:  Didn't Cape Town manage to run their water utilities so badly that they've run out of water?

Can't imagine that they are going to be much better at running farms.

Zim was an incredibly rich agricultural economy and mass farming methods were destroyed by Mugabe and his cronies. As has been mentioned before, if you were a white South African farmer you should have sold up and left years ago.

Not yet, but they are within of only a few months of 'day zero' for Cape Town, South Africa of having most wells run dry. There are a number of public wells available so there will still be enough water for people to survive, and the wealthy are drilling deeper wells, but my impression is that the typical person can expect only a few liters per day for all uses.

The end result would be that when 'day zero' for running out of water happens, there would have to be a mass migration of people out of the area plus any business that has large water requirements would probably be 'done'.
03-03-2018 09:56 AM
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Handsome Creepy Eel
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Post: #24
World War III?
This is a nightmare.

It looks like civil war is guaranteed for South Africa now. The whites will have no where to run. No country is going to accept them as refugees. Democrats blocked the south Vietnamese from coming to the USA in the late 70s lest they vote Republican. They and their cultural marxist socialist democratic allies in other nations will pull every stop to make damn sure white Afrikaners don't escape. The Boers will have to fight or die.

The question is which foreign powers will get involved and which side they will take. Will China and/or Russia just sell weapons to both sides or will they pick and support a side?

Will the USA be stupid enough to join in? If the war erupts 7 years from now after Trump is gone it might, especially if the Democrats and their diversity alliance regain power.

The worse case scenario is that all out race war starts in SA and the USA and China/Russia join different sides, leading to a possible World War III. SA was one of the predicted battlegrounds if the Cold War ever went hot. The KGB had a long history of supporting black regimes against SA and Rhodesian whites. China has large investments in sub-Saharan Africa.

The main question is how to prevent the USA from intervening and hopefully China and Russia as well while keeping a war contained.
03-03-2018 11:53 AM
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Duke Castile Offline
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RE: Is South Africa on the path to becoming the next Zimbabwe?
Over 20 years ago I ran into a South African kid going to a junior college on a golf scholarship.

He told me then that “there is no future for white people in South Africa”.

He said it with absolute certainity.

How is it he and his family and their friends knew this yet white people still live there.

We were meant for far more than to suffer in our self created prisons only to die alone. It doesn't have to be that way. It never did.
03-03-2018 12:14 PM
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