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Long Term Unemployment - Pitfalls and Strategy
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SlickyBoy Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Long Term Unemployment - Pitfalls and Strategy
(04-19-2018 10:47 PM)Tiger Man Wrote:  
(04-16-2018 04:27 PM)zatara Wrote:  
(04-16-2018 03:38 PM)SlickyBoy Wrote:  I understand the desire to cover up large gaps, but flat out lying on the resume in this day and age especially is extremely bad advice. A) it starts a pattern of unethical behavior you will start to rationalize and B) it's easier than ever to get nailed.

The problem the OP is going to face is lots of corporate HR will instantly bin a low level CV if they see a 6month+/12month+ recent employment gap on it, regardless of whats underneath it, if there is no good reason for it. As such "ethics" don't really come into it, it becomes a simple risk/reward equation. Option 1: tell the truth, get screened out before any interview stage, don't get hired. Option 2: lie, then either a) get found out and don't get hired, or b) pull it off and get the job. 1 and 2a are exactly the same end result. And 2a is very unlikely with the application of any sort of intelligence to the problem.

(There is also Option 1a - tell the truth, but never volunteer a deficiency. This does not have to amount to a lie, just avoid providing unnecessary reasons for rejection.)

Its one thing (though also surprisingly common, in my professional experience) to falsify entire jobs and employment history on your CV - its quite hard to pull that off without lots of prep and background work. Making a fake company website, having a fake landline set-up, fake references, really knowing your fake role inside-out etc. (Yep. This would inevitably result in option 3 - get found out, and be fired). But its an entirely easier matter to lie about taking a 12 month gap year to travel. Thats a lie both extremely common, and very easy to talk about at length if you've done any reasonable amount of travel in your life. And completely believable, since large numbers of people legitimately do it in their 20s these days anyway.

This obviously doesn't apply to every job and every situation, lying is more likely to lead to professional damage in a small industry in a regional town. Or if the OP was applying to creative industry roles where arbitrary strict recruitment standards aren't applied as much it wouldn't be necessary. But when applying to large MNCs in a big city its pretty standard.

If the gap on his CV continues to grow its something he'll definitely have to consider.

What about not outright lying. OP could actually start a small company. In the states, an LLC, website, enumber, business cards, and email can run under $200. He has an undergrad degree in Political Science, so he could, for example, start a political consulting company. Then, offer services to local (and I mean really local) political campaigns. Do it low key, almost part-time, while you continue your job search.

You wouldn't need to do much to acquire a few references. And, operating a consulting businesses for a year or two and then deciding to go corporate isn't that unheard of. Even moreso for those doing a pivot in industry. So, if he was looking to go in to an econ related field, it may work even better. Just a thought.


That wouldn't be lying and is a great way to skin the cat. It sounds a lot better than taking a "gap year to travel" which to anyone over 35 in the work force sounds like a fuck off year because, well, it usually is. On a related note, ask someone who's been busting their ass for more than a decade what they think when a 20 something fresh out of college (or back from their "gap year") asks about "work life balance" in an interview. Avoid that expression like the plague. As a young job seeker, chances are you're communicating with someone up to their own ass in debt, mortgage, family, child support payments, alimony, not enough money for retirement, etc. The last thing they want to hear is some young kid fresh out of diapers talking about work life balance in his first big-boy job. Not saying OP ever mentioned that, but just a heads up - that's a terrible expression to pick up.

The small business/consulting/LLC idea is way better, even if it fails. In addition, if OP doesn't have enough contacts in his chosen industry, that could be a way to build some. If it still doesn't work out and OP can't find something entry-level to build his skills or there just flat out are not any jobs regardless of the experience level, it may be time to consider a different tack. Winners never quit, and quitters never win, but at some point if you never quit and you never win, that's just stupid.

As to this:
(04-16-2018 05:58 PM)polar Wrote:  
(04-16-2018 03:38 PM)SlickyBoy Wrote:  I would also be careful of gifts to recruiters - they're probably not allowed to accept them anyway.

Allowed, no. But if you ask them for advice when you meet em, and then word it as "I appreciate all of the [bullshit] advice and guidance you've given me about my career"...they're a lot more likely to take it than if you say "there's more where this came from." Game 101.

Recruiter makes coin off placing you, assuming you stick around. If a client is deciding between two candidates, recruiter can often serve as a tiebreaker. In that sense, it's a call option - limited outlay for asymmetric upside.

No matter how it's phrased, Game 101 has nothing to do with buying strangers gifts to get information or leads about jobs. Game is the ability to do that without the bribe. Gift cards to an HR person isn't game, it reeks of desperation and is awkward at best, career suicide at worst. Depending upon whether you are in a regulated industry (e.g., law, finance), that kind of thing may get you virtually blackballed.

Regardless, the analogy is imperfect - any (honest) option trader can tell you it's quite easy to lose your shirt in the options market in spite of so-called limited outlays.

if an applicant has the goods in the resume that the market demands, the recruiter will gladly place you and profit from it, yes. While we may suspect routine occurrences of 24 year old HR cunts throwing resumes in the trash can whenever they find out an applicant is a closet Trump supporter, I suspect this is not as wide spread with external recruiters placing applicants into client companies. As you mention, they get paid for placing people, not ignoring a resume that could be pay dirt for them. That said I wouldn't be passing gifts of any kind to an American female in this position - the cultural stage already makes social interaction a political hot potato.

Twitter: @_slickyboy
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04-20-2018 06:11 PM
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Speculation Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Long Term Unemployment - Pitfalls and Strategy
As someone with a large gap on his resume, I would suggest taking some job, any job over being unemployed for long periods of time while waiting for the perfect 'career' job.

I'm not even talking about what employers will think looking at your resume. I'm talking about the mental health aspects of unemployment that stretch tendrils out into all aspects of your life.

After starting work again, everything in my life has taken a steep climb for the better. More women, more enjoyment, more health and energy.

Just don't let yourself be unemployed for long periods. Do garbage collecting, cleaning, whatever. Keep yourself busy with something that gets you out of bed in the morning.

When questioned why you took a menial job say 'A man needs to work'. I've had senior professionals give me a knowing nod in interviews when I say that and it hasn't been used against me.
04-20-2018 09:28 PM
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zatara Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Long Term Unemployment - Pitfalls and Strategy
(04-20-2018 06:11 PM)SlickyBoy Wrote:  (There is also Option 1a - tell the truth, but never volunteer a deficiency. This does not have to amount to a lie, just avoid providing unnecessary reasons for rejection.

The problem is this isn't an option when the OP isn't even getting called to the interview stage. As I've said in previous posts, its extremely common for large corporations to arbitrarily outright bin any young person's CV with an unexplained long term gap on it. I have direct experience of being on the hiring side of this in IT and finance. So unless the OP hides the gap somehow he won't get a chance to "never volunteer a deficiency". Theres no way to bravado yourself through a yes/no box ticking exercise.

(04-20-2018 06:11 PM)SlickyBoy Wrote:  It sounds a lot better than taking a "gap year to travel" which to anyone over 35 in the work force sounds like a fuck off year because, well, it usually is.

[snipped work/life rant]

You can have your own negative preconceptions about the validity of a gap year or work/life balance all you like, but all that shows is your lack of modern professional hiring experience. Any large company that works internationally won't look negatively on it, because its effectively the norm for European/Australian/Kiwi/Saffer etc middle class people to do these days. And its growing rapidly in popularity for Americans.

When billionaire hedge fund managers on Wall St, not exactly known for their work/life softness, are saying things like "Go do something different. Get on a motorcycle and travel through India and take photographs. Create a story where you learn something...I'm a big fan of the gap year." (Michael Novogratz) you know its become mainstream.

The small business/consulting idea is a good one to cover the gap (props to Tiger Man) too, though. It mightn't work exactly for the OP though depending on his interests/exact area of study/current location.

Either way I think most of the thread is in agreement that hes going to need to do something to cover the gap - that its definitely going to become a problem on his CV, if it isn't already.
04-21-2018 05:57 AM
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Dragan Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Long Term Unemployment - Pitfalls and Strategy
Sometimes I'm impressed by the quality of posts that dudes put out on the forum publicly, it is 2018, and there are dudes that freely share valuable info with no expectation for anything in return, and with complete civility! Now, onto the topic at hand:

OP, can't really tell you too much about the job market, but a lot of these hiring decisions (or more accurately the screening interviews) are being made by computer algorithms or HR departments. A gap in a resume/cv is the last thing you want with these people because they will exclude immediately. I don't endorse lying, but everyone is doing it. Maybe you had some jobs that aren't on your resume, but could fill the gaps? Sometimes you have to be creative, but you can usually think up some past job you had that fills the gap (whether it was paid or not).
04-21-2018 07:42 AM
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Goldin Boy Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Long Term Unemployment - Pitfalls and Strategy
Slicky Boy needs to take the HR/job search redpill.

HR is teeming with 90 to 100 IQ Western women, they're not going to in-depth background check if you sounds like you've got the goods in an interview(also background checks are typically done right after an offer's given for efficiency and cost-effectiveness).

Make a up a fake position so that they'll think that you had gained relevant experience, fuck a gap year. Interviews are a process of elimination, guy with the least flaws wins. Girlfriend of a friend works in HR for a large hotel chain on the US East Coast used to tell me that when reviewing resumes she take the first 10 that looked good and throw away the rest without reading them!

The most they'll do is call the fake company but the operator will answer and give them your name, rank, pay rate etc. They're not going to drive out to verify that the office exists. Or say you have a role in a start-up that has a team fully distributed across the world so there's no office address. Or pick a company that went out of business or check your local obituaries, find an executive from your industry that died recently and list him as a reference(don't list too many of these or they'll think you're Hillary Clinton heh).


Source: Me. 10 years ago, I figured out job hunting was BS when I submitted a poorly doctored college transcript to HSBC and they accepted it.

(08-18-2016 12:05 PM)dicknixon72 Wrote:  ...and nothing quite surprises me anymore. If I looked out my showroom window and saw a fully-nude woman force-fucking an alligator with a strap-on while snorting xanex on the roof of her rental car with her three children locked inside with the windows rolled up, I wouldn't be entirely amazed.
(This post was last modified: 04-21-2018 09:57 AM by Goldin Boy.)
04-21-2018 09:55 AM
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SlickyBoy Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Long Term Unemployment - Pitfalls and Strategy
Quote:HR is teeming with 90 to 100 IQ Western women, they're not going to in-depth background check if you sounds like you've got the goods in an interview(also background checks are typically done right after an offer's given for efficiency and cost-effectiveness).

That's what I meant by people who think all HR girls throw suspected Trump supporter resumes in the trash are probably a bit paranoid. If you have the goods and they need an XYZ coder, for example, you'll get the interview - especially if she works for a placement firm. If it's direct hire and she potentially sees herself working in the same office as you, she may dig deeper.

Good going with HSBC; what level position? Hope it doesn't come back to you. C level guys have been fired for lies in their background they thought would never matter. Anybody remember this guy over at Yahoo? Red pill... ok.

Riding motorcycles across India and everywhere else worked for Jim Rodgers but he was a billionaire by then - not exactly a post grad screw off year. If Michael Novogratz thinks highly of a gap year, that's probably because he's considering someone with impeccable credentials for a top level job at a highly rated company, not regular Joes in regular jobs. OP has to figure out where he stands in the market.

The employment gap will obviously be a bigger obstacle the broader it gets. But "never volunteer a deficiency" means just that - don't volunteer a deficiency they do not ask about. If they ask what he did for the past six months, he can say "I started a consulting business" but he doesn't have to say "I haven't made a dime and I'm thinking of packing it up." That's all - advice is from one of DJTs books, FWIW.

Quote:You can have your own negative preconceptions about the validity of a gap year or work/life balance all you like, but all that shows is your lack of modern professional hiring experience. And its growing rapidly in popularity for Americans.

It's actually a post-conception. I've had to sit through hiring panels where the phrase "work life balance" was one of the fist things out of a candidates mouth. For a young applicant with zero responsibilities outside of student loans it is a major tell. If you're good enough to interview at Google for a coder slot, maybe you can bring that up during the interview. But for average jobs in average places though, it still sounds incredibly entitled.

Sure, lots of people are doing it now - and lots of companies are outsourcing in part because of attitudes and expectations like that (but they do it mostly for money). It's almost always from white kids with bullshit degrees who think the world owes them a job. Not saying that's the OP, but there's no reason to utter that phrase at all unless you really hold all of the cards.

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04-22-2018 09:56 AM
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