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Too Many Men: In China and India, men outnumber women by 70 million
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Post: #101
RE: Too Many Men: In China and India, men outnumber women by 70 million
Man, y'all letting suits buttwreck you all over a bunch of Chinese 4s. You'd think the thirst got to you guys, too.

C'mon RVF. lol
05-06-2018 09:53 PM
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Post: #102
RE: Too Many Men: In China and India, men outnumber women by 70 million
(05-06-2018 09:53 PM)Fortis Wrote:  Man, y'all letting suits buttwreck you all over a bunch of Chinese 4s. You'd think the thirst got to you guys, too.

C'mon RVF. lol

It's not thirst. It's retarded as fuck trolling for no good reason other than to irritate others on the forum.

It's hard to take someone seriously in other discussions or threads when they constantly pull absurd stunts like this. If it were humorous at least, sure fine. It isn't even remotely funny. It's not even cheesy like something Kona would post. It's like the worst aspects of Canadian guys with their corny humor, but you can never be sure because you cannot tell if Suits is just running with some kind of agenda either.

Even he deserves the leaf blower sometimes.

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05-06-2018 11:53 PM
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Post: #103
RE: Too Many Men: In China and India, men outnumber women by 70 million
(04-23-2018 11:01 PM)Eugenics Wrote:  I would trade that sexual market for the united states.



23%-60% of women identify as feminist. Let's say on the low end 23% identify as "strong feminist" and the 60% statistic is more just typical "equal rights" feminine musings. Right off the bat 23% of women are undatable.

40% of US women are classified as Obese.

Let's say on the optimistic side all the strong feminists are in the Obese camp and visca versa. That's a grim outlook. That leaves a huge amount of women undatable.

China has supposedly a 5% obesity rate and I don't know what the cultural equivalent of rabid feminist is so i'll stay out that.

I'll take 3% less women over 35% more blobs of lazy bitches anyday.

I don't doubt it changes social patterns though. And no I don't think there's been any time in history where men were in excess by that much. Men did hard jobs, went to war and died a lot more in the past. I think it's more typical to have an excess of women. The united states does for example. 50.8% female. Russia is upwarss of 53% female. Those few percent surely make a large difference in the sexual market but culture dictates it a bit more I think.

Neither obesity nor feminism are relevant to the issue here. True, men in this forum preach against relationships with obese/feminist women, for good reason. But when we talk about an imbalance, don't forget that there are plenty of obese and/or beta men in America who don't shun those same women.
05-07-2018 07:39 AM
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Post: #104
RE: Too Many Men: In China and India, men outnumber women by 70 million
(04-20-2018 10:25 AM)captndonk Wrote:  Indian and Chinese so very on the sexual market place Europe. So they can't emigrate to solve the problem. Well, maybe to Africa but who wants to bang the Kongo girls?

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05-07-2018 10:31 AM
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Post: #105
RE: Too Many Men: In China and India, men outnumber women by 70 million
(05-06-2018 06:02 PM)Genghis Khan Wrote:  Tough to say unless there's a breakdown of what socioeconomic status the excessive men are. But my guess is that they're mostly bottom of the barrel men.

Infanticide - where female fetuses are aborted - usually occurs in really backward places. I can't imagine that crew having the money to get onto a plane. They're single, rural, poor, Indian dudes.

Not true...


Quote:While some have assumed that poverty was the main motivation for female infanticide (de Lamo, 1997; The Hindu, 1998), the reasons appear to be more complex. If social class were the sole determinant of infanticide risk, then we would expect to see lower rates of female infanticide in the upper classes. However, in the Punjab, India’s richest state, Cowan and Dhanoa (1983) found even higher rates of female mortality. For example, females constituted 85% of deaths among infants ages 7 to 36 months. Further, Miller (1981;1987) has argued that infanticide is more likely in the upper rather than lower castes. When the British Colonial government outlawed female infanticide in 1870, they stated that the two chief causes were “pride and purse.” “Purse” referred to the dowry. “Pride” referred to pride of the upper castes and tribes that would rather murder female infants than give them to a rival group even in marriage (Miller, 1987). This may at least partially explain why infanticide also occurs in middle-class and wealthy families.
(This post was last modified: 05-07-2018 11:36 PM by WalterBlack.)
05-07-2018 11:29 PM
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Post: #106
RE: Too Many Men: In China and India, men outnumber women by 70 million
Nice try, but in terms of GDP Punjab doesn't even make the top 10 states.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_...ies_by_GDP

It's 14th in GDP, between Haryana and Bihar, two of the most backward states in the country.

When this shit happens in Tamil Nadu or Gujarat, I'll retract my statements.

As for the money that does exist in Punjab, quite a lot came from the green revolution in agriculture. Also that's why there are so many Punjabis in Canada, a lot of them made out like bandits and split to the West. Unironically it's also that crowd that has issues with feticide in Canada:

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2016/04...study.html

Guess all that money didn't buy them class.

Quote:Further, Miller (1981;1987) has argued that infanticide is more likely in the upper rather than lower castes.

Caste is not the same as socioeconomic class - there are a lot of upper caste people who are poor as fuck, especially in the BIMARU states.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BIMARU_states

If there are higher rates of feticide/infanticide in Tamil Brahmin or Gujarati Parsi communities, then I'll retract what I said, which is that these practices happen predominantly in backward areas and communities.

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05-08-2018 12:49 AM
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Post: #107
RE: Too Many Men: In China and India, men outnumber women by 70 million
(04-21-2018 01:55 AM)asiaslayer Wrote:  Lol. Foreigners are no longer viewed positively or as a status upgrade for most women in China. Go to any nightclub in any tier 1 city. You'll see male model tier guys from Europe begging for the table scraps of some 4/10 Rainy [...]

These newly rich elite in China are going to start absurd and ridiculous bidding wars for the hottest girls of child-bearing age that are left in China,

That's the thing. Who says we have to look for the "hottest child-bearing age" women... I'm more than happy to fuck 30+ "leftover" women that are "too old" by Chinese standards.

Also, what is considered pretty by Chinese standards (ultra skinny with porcelain skin) is not appealing to me anyway.
05-08-2018 01:22 AM
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Post: #108
RE: Too Many Men: In China and India, men outnumber women by 70 million
(04-23-2018 07:32 PM)Fortis Wrote:  Arado, the reason I say that is because, according to some Georgian friends, the Georgian government changed some laws overnight to prevent Chinese people from buying up all the property. I suspect other EE nations tend to be wary of floods of people coming in and doing things the locals can't do. I could be wrong.

There has been an influx of Turkish and other Moslem sexpats in the local nightlife recently, trying to take advantage of the liberalization of social values in Georgia. Governments everywhere care very much about capital flux and economic things, but they are very slow to react to sexual migrations.
(This post was last modified: 05-08-2018 01:45 AM by Matt Fecal.)
05-08-2018 01:42 AM
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Post: #109
RE: Too Many Men: In China and India, men outnumber women by 70 million
(04-25-2018 01:50 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  Even if you have particular fetishes, you can easily find 5 of the same type of gal in the same month if you work online and daygame. Try doing that in America. A "perfect gal" might be the last one you will see that whole year. This does wonders on thirst avoidance.

Chinese men are also banging the hell out of Africa. Bunch of construction dudes that got stationed out there for work projects and brought one back. I have already ran into a few Chinese guy African woman combos with kids. Some were North African even. Their kids look kinda similar to mine but some did not.
Don't think all are hyperfocused on Ukraine either. From what most intel out there I have read, it seems like it is, Vietnamese, North Korean, Thai/Indo, African, then Russian/Ukraine.

I had a discussion with a friend of mine regarding this not long ago. I was guessing that Chinese guys would start pulling wives from East Africa in the near future. That it may become a significant trend. African women do not inhabit the same Western media market that constantly degrades asian men as unmasculine. I don't give a shit what Issa Rae says... African American women will never date asian guys in any significant numbers. I note that even Issa Rae isn't dating one. The group in America most wanting to break free of stereotypes refuses to give them up themselves.

So, it's as you say. Chinese guys will run to Vietnam first, but I can say first hand that most people in Vietnam have a very poor perception of China and Chinese men. They would much prefer Korean guys or Japanese men first... followed by western guys and African American men.

I do wonder how common it will be to marry a woman from Africa. At one point in US history Chinese men married African American women in very large numbers.
05-08-2018 02:31 AM
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Post: #110
RE: Too Many Men: In China and India, men outnumber women by 70 million
(05-08-2018 02:31 AM)EndsExpect Wrote:  
(04-25-2018 01:50 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  Even if you have particular fetishes, you can easily find 5 of the same type of gal in the same month if you work online and daygame. Try doing that in America. A "perfect gal" might be the last one you will see that whole year. This does wonders on thirst avoidance.

Chinese men are also banging the hell out of Africa. Bunch of construction dudes that got stationed out there for work projects and brought one back. I have already ran into a few Chinese guy African woman combos with kids. Some were North African even. Their kids look kinda similar to mine but some did not.
Don't think all are hyperfocused on Ukraine either. From what most intel out there I have read, it seems like it is, Vietnamese, North Korean, Thai/Indo, African, then Russian/Ukraine.

I had a discussion with a friend of mine regarding this not long ago. I was guessing that Chinese guys would start pulling wives from East Africa in the near future. That it may become a significant trend. African women do not inhabit the same Western media market that constantly degrades asian men as unmasculine. I don't give a shit what Issa Rae says... African American women will never date asian guys in any significant numbers. I note that even Issa Rae isn't dating one. The group in America most wanting to break free of stereotypes refuses to give them up themselves.

So, it's as you say. Chinese guys will run to Vietnam first, but I can say first hand that most people in Vietnam have a very poor perception of China and Chinese men. They would much prefer Korean guys or Japanese men first... followed by western guys and African American men.

I do wonder how common it will be to marry a woman from Africa. At one point in US history Chinese men married African American women in very large numbers.

Not sure about that one or where you saw numbers for that, but nobody on Earth today wants American Black Women except for ass loving, masochistic dudes, and BN/Pro Black American men. Plenty of white dudes could handle them alright, and I see more WN-BW combos these days, but the vast majority of them want white women or similar. Chinese men have too much cultural expectations for things, that would cause fights with just about any American woman color aside.

Kenyans love China and if you saw the last Chinese New Year special on TV, a bunch of them sang a musical performance in Mandarin and it was incredible. China has already built up some nice infrastructures in Kenya and who know what else is next on the pipeline. Kenyans are my favorite Africans too, so it really does not surprise me to see the two countries getting along so well. Official alliance in the future? Stay tuned.

Vietnamese might have a distrust of Chinese men, all warranted from their position, business wise with the factories, and both countries histories, but money is still money. If Chinese men continue to go into fairly poor areas of Vietnam with a knot of cash, they will get a wife. Let's just cut the bullshit here. Money still talks. Chinese have more purchasing power in this situation. They have been doing this in Thailand too. Chinese men still have the concept of a "Good Enough Wife". As long as she is skinny, cooks, cleans, gives up the sweet walls sometimes, and takes care of the children, she is "Good Enough".

These dudes are not looking for romance n shit. They likely do not lock eyes with the chick when busting a nut, and likely won't until the next day to ask her to do something. She probably looks like a skinny 3 or 4 with lots of dark circles on her legs from past mosquito bites, and sun damaged skin. A real one, unlike Suit's bullshit scale. Most of these guys look like this more or less too, so it means nothing at the end of the day.

Indian men I read have been doing this on occasion and some have been mentioned in articles buying Chinese wives with large money gifts too, but likely those are richer guys. I have no idea how many Indians are doing that. Chinese guys in the South have alot more in common with SEA women from a food and culture standpoint, than an African. It's alot like a French white guy looking for an Italian white woman wife. Those two will have more in common than someone else halfway across the world. Old Vietnamese gets it's roots from Cantonese. Both cultures can eat spicier food and live in similar hot climates.

Anyway other African countries want to do business badly with China and not the US, Europe, or Russia. It's already happening in projects right now. More mixing is possible, but some African cultures may mix easier than others, like Christian Kenyans vs West/Central African Muslims for example.

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05-08-2018 05:32 AM
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Post: #111
RE: Too Many Men: In China and India, men outnumber women by 70 million
(05-08-2018 05:32 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  These dudes are not looking for romance n shit. They likely do not lock eyes with the chick when busting a nut, and likely won't until the next day to ask her to do something. She probably looks like a skinny 3 or 4 with lots of dark circles on her legs from past mosquito bites, and sun damaged skin. A real one, unlike Suit's bullshit scale. Most of these guys look like this more or less too, so it means nothing at the end of the day.

It's starting to become obvious that what you think is a Chinese 8 is actually a 5 at best.

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05-08-2018 10:35 AM
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Post: #112
RE: Too Many Men: In China and India, men outnumber women by 70 million
(05-08-2018 10:35 AM)Suits Wrote:  
(05-08-2018 05:32 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  These dudes are not looking for romance n shit. They likely do not lock eyes with the chick when busting a nut, and likely won't until the next day to ask her to do something. She probably looks like a skinny 3 or 4 with lots of dark circles on her legs from past mosquito bites, and sun damaged skin. A real one, unlike Suit's bullshit scale. Most of these guys look like this more or less too, so it means nothing at the end of the day.

It's starting to become obvious that what you think is a Chinese 8 is actually a 5 at best.

It's very obvious that you do not like Chinese women (dudes either for that matter), nor find any of them attractive. They are just something to fuck while you live there. I think you and Fast Eddie have alot more in common than you think. I think you do not actually like China and all those posts you make about how nice it is, are actually facetious trolling of the forum. Not that anyone cares for what anyone likes or dislikes, but you could bother to have more candor and stop misleading others that have no idea you love bullshitting like that.

Why don't you date that Canadian classmate of yours you spend three hours talking to on the phone instead? I bet she is hot, for you to spend such large amounts of time discussing life with. I don't personally know any redpill guys with game that spends that much time talking to women they are not fucking, so if you are doing it, it must be worth it. Have you guys set up a date for when you return yet? All that game you have should be plenty to seal the deal on that.

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(This post was last modified: 05-08-2018 11:59 AM by TravelerKai.)
05-08-2018 11:56 AM
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Post: #113
RE: Too Many Men: In China and India, men outnumber women by 70 million
(04-22-2018 09:53 AM)Suits Wrote:  Where I live, the average Chinese woman aged 18-20 is pretty fucking far away from being a 6, despite being slim as a chopstick.

I'm pretty much the biggest Captain Pinkerton here, but you are correct.

The typical high-average young Chinese girl doesn't exercise, so though they might be skinny, they are untoned and skinny fat. They tend to wear glasses which is a slight turn-off for me. They ignore body hair, Many low-average Chinese girls don't even remove facial hair.

Faces aside, the natural aesthetic potential of the average Chinese girl is lower than the average Anglo girl. They've got shorter legs and smaller breasts, the downsides of being on average more neotenous.

That being said, they are have far cuter faces on average, and it doesn't take much effort to turn a Chinese 6 into an actual 6 or 7. Can the same be said for the average Anglo?

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05-08-2018 05:02 PM
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Post: #114
RE: Too Many Men: In China and India, men outnumber women by 70 million
(05-08-2018 11:56 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  Why don't you date that Canadian classmate of yours you spend three hours talking to on the phone instead? I bet she is hot, for you to spend such large amounts of time discussing life with. I don't personally know any redpill guys with game that spends that much time talking to women they are not fucking, so if you are doing it, it must be worth it. Have you guys set up a date for when you return yet? All that game you have should be plenty to seal the deal on that.

I have no idea what you are talking about. I haven't been a student in Canada at any time in the last 13 years, I only talk to a couple of guys I knew way back then and all the women I went to school with in Canada have already hit the wall hard and blasted right through it.

I definitely haven't had a three hour phone call with anyone in or from Canada at anytime in the last decade.

I'm not sure where you're getting your forum gossip from, but you might want to get better sources or at least learn to listen better.

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05-08-2018 08:28 PM
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Post: #115
RE: Too Many Men: In China and India, men outnumber women by 70 million
Eh, I don't know. She's reed-thin with a pretty smile (And that dress is nice, too), but there are a lot of reed-thin girls in Asia with nice smiles. 4 is going a little far, but you'll see better than that serving tea in almost any office in Asia, right? If I was in that office I doubt I'd even notice her.

In America she'd be a 7 just because she isn't obese, but I don't really think that's the case in Japan, at least, and I would imagine China is about the same.




Please do not start a series of personal attacks on me because I don't think some random Chinese chick is that impressive.

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05-08-2018 08:43 PM
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Post: #116
RE: Too Many Men: In China and India, men outnumber women by 70 million
(05-06-2018 09:11 AM)azulsombra Wrote:  Most of the discussion is on the chinese side of the issue.
How about the millions of surplus Indian Men?

Anyone who knows the culture there have any insight?
It seems to me that they are more likely to immigrate than the single, rural, poor, chinese dudes.

Cosigned with what Genghis Khan said above. India's development is pretty lopsided, even within individual cities. I've been to parts of Delhi, Chennai, Bangalore, and Mumbai that are identical to a nice part of Los Angeles or San Diego (maybe slightly dirtier but still fairly pleasant). Then you'll find slums where the standard of living is equivalent to somewhere in the Congo. On a grander scale this means that states like Kerala, Tamil Nadu, and Gujarat are generally well educated and productive, while areas like Bihar are complete hell holes full of caste violence, poverty, and abysmal crimes against women.

A lot of these people are probably going to end up in Bhutan, SEA, China, the Gulf, or richer parts of India as manual laborers (its already happening, you'll see tons of these people in the Gulf or in other Himalayan areas). Some will probably get better educated as their regions improve (this is already happening, although it's going to be a hell of a task to fix these states) and may immigrate to other countries. Unlike the Chinese I doubt these guys are going to be importing any women in. India doesn't have nearly the global reach that China has, not to mention the areas these people are from are complete garbage and they won't have the money to attract foreign brides.

India's future is going to interesting, classic case of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer. The IIT universities that Genghis mentioned are some of the best IT/Comp Sci schools on the planet, incredibly difficult to get into, probably equivalent to the Ivy Leagues in the states or better. The economy is booming, millionaires are popping up left right and center, and the new BJP government is actually doing a good job cleaning up the streets and dealing with urban filth issues. Basically parts of India are becoming on par with the West in terms of basic standard of living. I'd even say they're going to get better, as services are incredibly cheap (like Genghis said, you can get a maid, driver, cleaner etc for peanuts) and family values are still strong there. On the other hand, the rural parts of Central and North India are still some of the poorest and most barbaric places on the planet, some of the shit that happens there truly beggars belief. Female infanticide, caste wars, horrendous poverty, kidnappings, religious riots, the list goes on and on. The poverty still applies in urban slums though the other things aren't as common.

Pretty crazy that a country can run the scale from Harvard levels of education to Congo levels of poverty and hopelessness.
05-09-2018 04:24 PM
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Post: #117
RE: Too Many Men: In China and India, men outnumber women by 70 million
There’s a shortage of brides in India, and it’s a problem

Quote:If you are a single woman in India of marrying age you are either extremely lucky or tremendously unlucky.

That's because there is a shortage of women in that nation these days -- in fact, the ratio of women to men has sunk to its lowest point since India gained independence in 1947. There's at least one cruel reason for this: sex-selective abortions, where boys are prized more than girls. The shortage of brides is also driving an increase in human trafficking, according to rights groups.

For some brides-to-be, especially those from middle-class or upper-middle-class families, the shortage has brought more power.

In arranged marriages, which remain popular in India, young women seldom had much choice. They were married off to men, bringing along dowries that included TV sets, money and gold. Today, prospective brides are much more demanding -- and in many cases, a dowry does not enter the picture. It's a simple case of supply and demand. And there is quite a large number of men to choose from.


Take the case of my cousin, who is handsome and well-employed in Mumbai. His parents have been looking for a bride for him for months. But all his potential brides -- and their parents -- wanted some serious questions answered before they would even consider marrying him: How much savings in the bank? Investments? Properties? A top college? What brand of car? American or British passport?

My cousin is still single.

The marriage blues have gotten so bad for bachelors in some parts of India that they have to travel hundreds of miles to find a bride. Men from the village of Sorkhi, nestled in the northern state of Haryana, are traveling 1,700 miles south to Kerala to seek women willing to marry them, according to the Associated Press. The women, elders said, are picky, leaving as many as 250 young men unmarried.

“Earlier, families with girls of a marriageable age would seek out boys and entice them with rich dowries," villager Virender Berwal told the Associated Press. "Now, it’s the other way round. The girl’s family checks out the boy. They want to know how much land the boy has, whether he has a government job and whether their daughter will live in reasonable comfort."

In Haryana, there are 834 girls per 1,000 boys age 6 and under, according to Indian census figures. Across the country, the ratio has fallen to 919 girls for every 1,000 boys for the same age group, the most uneven level since 1947.

Last year, bachelors in Haryana reportedly demanded that politicians running for state elections hand them brides in exchange for votes. (Politicians reportedly rejected the demands.)

For decades, impoverished families preferred boys to girls because they could avoid the burden of paying dowries. The tradition has persisted even as laws have been enacted prohibiting such customs. Males are also traditionally expected to care for their parents in their old age; a female becomes part of her husband's family after marriage, and her life becomes focused on her in-laws.

Such traditions have played a prominent role in the abortion of female fetuses to the extent that the Indian government banned prenatal sex determination tests in 1994 and made it illegal for doctors conducting sonograms to reveal the sex of the child before birth. Still, the practice remains prevalent. Sex-selection abortions remain a problem, along with female infanticides.

A recent India Times sub-headline, in an article about the abundance of bachelors, read: "How India successfully killed their future brides."

The shortage of women, activists say, has led to a profitable trade in bride trafficking that shows no signs of decreasing. Girls are promised jobs or a husband and are then sold off to brokers, who in turn sell them into forced marriages. Statistics from India’s National Crime Records Bureau show that nearly 25,000 girls and women ages 15 to 30 were kidnapped and sold into marriage across the country in 2013. Recently, New Delhi police busted a human trafficking ring that was selling girls to men in Haryana, according to the Associated Press.

'Sold like cows and goats': India's slave brides

Quote:The first time Muklesha was sold, she was just 12 years old. Her buyer was a man in his 70s.

Marriage and a baby quickly followed. But, three years later, the man died and Muklesha was again put up for sale.

This time, her buyer was a horrific abuser.

"He didn't feed me. He'd take me to the fields and stuff my mouth with mud and then beat me," she says.

Muklesha is one of thousands of India's slave brides - girls and women sold into marriage, often destined for a lifetime of abuse and hardship
, as this 101 East documentary reveals.

A dangerous demand for brides

In India, sex-selective abortions and female infanticide, due to a preference for male babies, has created one of the most severe gender imbalances in the world.

Now, the shortage of women is generating a dangerous demand for brides among men desperate to marry, especially in states like Haryana, which has one of the country's worst gender ratios.

Traffickers are stepping in to meet this demand, kidnapping women from other states and selling them to men in Haryana.

A survey of 10,000 households in this northern state found more than 9,000 married women had come from other states.

Al Jazeera discovered that some women living in villages in Haryana have been sold as many as three times.


The villagers call them "Paros", a derogatory term implying they've been purchased.

Sanjida was trafficked to Haryana when she was just 10 years old. She says an older girl from a village near her family's home in the north-eastern state of Assam drugged and kidnapped her.

"I was made to do field work, cut grass, feed cows, do all the work. I cried for a year. I was in captivity for four years," she says.

She says she was then sold into marriage.


"I couldn't run away or bring my life to an end. There was nobody whom I could ask for help," she says.

But Sanjida was luckier than most other Indian women sold into marriage. She says her husband has always treated her well. Sanjida now works for an NGO helping other women.

"All people in Haryana are disrespectful towards women like us. Everybody says we have no self-respect ... and that we are sold like cows and goats. We feel very bad when we hear all this because we are human beings and we belong to India, just like them," she says.

Sanjida is now helping Muklesha, the girl first sold when she was 12, after she was rescued from her abusive husband.

Muklesha now lives in a safe house with her 18-month-old daughter, but Sanjida says she's still so traumatised she hasn't been able to tell anyone where she comes from.

"Her second husband was so cruel. He beat her so badly that her mouth was damaged and she was affected mentally. She struggles to speak and to be understood," Sanjida explains.

'Commodities that can be recycled and resold'

For the brides who manage to escape their husbands, pursuing a criminal case against them can be near impossible, according to Narender Singh, a local district chief magistrate in Haryana.

"She's brought before the court to depose against the trafficker, who is a powerful person who has strong links in the community and the community is supporting him," he says. "So in these circumstances, it's very tough for that lady to stand by her statement."

He says the women have no rights, including when it comes to inheritance.

"I'm yet to see a case where they have legally inherited some land in their name. They are not accepted as a member of the family," he says.

Poonam Muttreja, executive director of the Population Foundation of India, says the bride trade reflects a cultural lack of respect for women.

"It's not just about sex selection and foeticide. It's about infanticide; it's about lack of value for girls," says Muttreja, a government adviser on family issues.

"It's a continuum where girls are not valued before they're born, but the girls are not valued or treated well even after they're born."

Muttreja says a shortage of women in Haryana has meant that it has become normal for men to buy brides from other states.


"They could marry their boys to girls from other parts of the country in the normal, respectful way, but it is the extreme lack of respect for women that they do sex trafficking," she says. "It's not as though they treat them as respected married partners. They treat them as commodities that can be recycled and resold."

The Indian government is drafting the country's first comprehensive anti-trafficking laws, but some activists say this will not be enough to stop the sale of brides.

"Unless you change social norms and the way people view girls, you're not going to be able to change either the sex ratios or the lack of respect for women," says Muttreja. "Buying brides is a lack of respect for women and lack of any value that a woman has."

For Sanjida, life has become all about her four children. She is determined that in her family at least, the practice of selling girls into marriage will end with her.

"I don't expect much for myself, but I work hard to educate my daughters so that they have a better life. Whatever I went through, they should not have to suffer that."
05-10-2018 01:15 AM
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WalterBlack Offline
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RE: Too Many Men: In China and India, men outnumber women by 70 million
(05-08-2018 05:32 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  Indian men I read have been doing this on occasion and some have been mentioned in articles buying Chinese wives with large money gifts too, but likely those are richer guys. I have no idea how many Indians are doing that.

Chinese women are not on the radar of the average Indian guy. They would usually marry an Indian woman first. Here's a video from a Chinese TV channel about an Indian guy who settled in China. He bought a wife over from India - even by Indian standards she's not attractive.

When you see how fat the Indian women are in the video, you wouldn't be surprised if you found out their husbands were be banging some Chinese girls on the side.





Most of the articles I've seen with Indian guys marrying Chinese women is upper middle class guys who met their wives at college in a third country.

(05-08-2018 05:32 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  Chinese guys in the South have alot more in common with SEA women from a food and culture standpoint, than an African. It's alot like a French white guy looking for an Italian white woman wife. Those two will have more in common than someone else halfway across the world. Old Vietnamese gets it's roots from Cantonese. Both cultures can eat spicier food and live in similar hot climates.

Anyway other African countries want to do business badly with China and not the US, Europe, or Russia. It's already happening in projects right now. More mixing is possible, but some African cultures may mix easier than others, like Christian Kenyans vs West/Central African Muslims for example.

My family had never seen a Kenyan: The Chinese making a new life in Africa [BBC Article from today]

[Image: _100623744_dc947c88-bf8d-416f-8afa-87384fdf0963.jpg]

Quote:"We fell in love but it was very difficult at first," Xu Jing explains from the courtyard of the Fairmont Hotel in Nairobi.

"My family didn't know much about Africa at all. They hadn't even seen a Kenyan before so they were very worried."

Henry Rotich - the Kenyan in question - was just as concerned.

The pair had fallen for each other after Henry was sent to China to learn Mandarin as part of his government job.


It took him many weeks to get his language skills good enough to meet Jing's father over a nerve-filled lunch, at which he asked for his blessing.

"Her father didn't say much so I was really worried about what he was thinking, whether or not he even liked the food we were serving him," Henry recalls.

Apparently his mastery of Mandarin was enough: a decade later, the couple are living in the Kenyan capital, proud parents to two children.

Jing now teaches Mandarin at the Confucius Institute based at the University of Nairobi, one of an estimated 10,000 Chinese nationals who have moved to the East African state.

Their family provides one snapshot of the growing links between Chinese and Kenyans - propelled somewhat by China's massive investment in the country.

It is a pattern seen across the continent. Back in 2000, China-Africa trade amounted to $10bn (£7bn). That figure is now believed to have crossed the $300bn mark.


Rumours

Jing and Henry's story is a success, but the relationship between the two peoples doesn't always go so smoothly.

Along the Thika Road, a major new Chinese-built superhighway linking Nairobi to the industrial town of Thika, rumours of so-called "Thika babies" abound.

According to the whispers, Chinese construction workers have fathered hundreds of babies with local women, before disappearing into the ether.

Media outlets even reported the story of a schoolgirl, pregnant with a worker's baby, who was unable to identify him among the hundreds of other construction workers.

But for all the hysteria - there is even a song dedicated to the phenomenon - most Kenyans say they have never seen evidence of such children.

But that doesn't stop some believing the rumours.

"I would say I've seen around 20… It's very hush-hush as many of the Chinese fathers didn't stick around," Thatcher, a Kenyan-Chinese translator who lives close to the Thika Road, tells us.

"I think in 15 or 20 years' time, when these children are all grown up and going to colleges, then we will know the true scale of it."


'African time is changing'

Disappearing fathers are not a problem in most Chinese-Kenyan homes, of course.

For Jing - who grew up during China's one-child policy - it is sometimes the sheer abundance of family members that can be somewhat overwhelming.

"We are used to having big extended family and lots of big families coming to spend time with one another a lot," Henry says. "We're used to having say our nieces or nephews coming to stay with us for long periods of time.

"In China they don't have that as much. Family may visit but for a shorter time and I don't think that closeness with the extended family is the same."

And there are other cultural difference, such as over attitudes to time.

Jinhua Lu, a consultant advising Chinese companies how to best operate in Kenya, says there are still barriers.

"I hate to generalise but there is a notion that Kenyans take things more slowly," he says. "They like to enjoy life and have a sense of community that the Chinese don't have.

"The Chinese come here and just have the end goal in mind. They work long hours - they take very few breaks and will even work over weekends just to get the project done as quickly as possible."

It is something Jing and Henry recognise.

"Yes it's true Kenyans can be more relaxed about these things but Kenyans are changing… this concept of African time is changing. The pace of development is progressing well and people have many things to do - so we have many things to do in our time."

And anyway, the civil servant adds, he has learnt to be on time: "Xu makes sure of it."

And with more Chinese than ever before arriving in Kenya, larger efforts are being made to overcome the cultural gap.

The Confucius Institute - where Jing works - is one of the Chinese government-funded programmes which they hope will help smooth relations between Chinese and Kenyans.

For the Kenyans who study here, the hope is that they will go on to get well-paid jobs in Chinese companies. For the Chinese, this is a strong statement that the country plans to have strong ties with Kenya for the long run.

But the sight of a Chinese mother at the schoolgates still creates a bit of a stir.

"All the other mothers want to speak with Xu and all the children jump up and down and say: 'It's the Chinese mummy!'" Henry says with a broad grin.

"Our children look like ordinary Kenyans so when I go out with them, people ask what language is that they're speaking?

"When I say: 'Chinese', they say… 'What?! They can speak Chinese!' They get so excited and everyone wants to ask us questions and become our friends."

As for Jing, she sees Kenya as her future.

"I do miss China but Kenya is my home now," she says. "Many of the Chinese who come here love this country and I think many of them will be here for a long time to come," she concludes.
(This post was last modified: 05-10-2018 01:39 AM by WalterBlack.)
05-10-2018 01:37 AM
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Bastard Sword Offline
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Post: #119
RE: Too Many Men: In China and India, men outnumber women by 70 million
^That's pretty cool to see, actually. I'm Indian but I actually have high hopes for Chinese "colonization" in Africa. Seems like it could do those countries some real good. Hopefully India gets in on this as well and can spur some development there too. I feel like Kenya, Nigeria etc are full of people with a strong hustle, good business sense, and great family values -- I don't see why they couldn't reach first world status within the next hundred years.
05-10-2018 01:55 PM
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WalterBlack Offline
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RE: Too Many Men: In China and India, men outnumber women by 70 million
(05-10-2018 01:55 PM)Bastard Sword Wrote:  ^That's pretty cool to see, actually. I'm Indian but I actually have high hopes for Chinese "colonization" in Africa. Seems like it could do those countries some real good. Hopefully India gets in on this as well and can spur some development there too. I feel like Kenya, Nigeria etc are full of people with a strong hustle, good business sense, and great family values -- I don't see why they couldn't reach first world status within the next hundred years.

There's been Indians living in Africa for hundreds of years.
05-11-2018 12:02 AM
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Simeon_Strangelight Offline
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RE: Too Many Men: In China and India, men outnumber women by 70 million
(05-11-2018 12:02 AM)WalterBlack Wrote:  
(05-10-2018 01:55 PM)Bastard Sword Wrote:  ^That's pretty cool to see, actually. I'm Indian but I actually have high hopes for Chinese "colonization" in Africa. Seems like it could do those countries some real good. Hopefully India gets in on this as well and can spur some development there too. I feel like Kenya, Nigeria etc are full of people with a strong hustle, good business sense, and great family values -- I don't see why they couldn't reach first world status within the next hundred years.

There's been Indians living in Africa for hundreds of years.

Yes - and they left so many good impressions on Indians like Gandhi: http://originalpeople.org/mahatma-gandhi-racist-quotes/

India itself looks like that because there seems to be a gap of IQs which is massive between populations.

Average IQ is 82 while the average IQ of the Indian immigrant to the US is estimated to above 110. Due to the size of 1.4 bio. people you can create sparkling cities and industries with hundreds of millions above the IQ of 95 while at the same time you can have rural India where the 75-IQ Indians sacrifice girls because of lost phones:

http://www.newindianexpress.com/nation/2...33863.html

Quote:Shocker of shockers: Four-year-old girl sacrificed to retrieve lost mobile phone in Assam

Some tribes like the Sikhs are on average taller, smarter and more civilized even while being peasants - others less so. Part of the IQ drop is due to malnutrition during pregnancy, lack of sanitary conditions and inbreeding. So it's likely that things will improve over time.

But contrary to Africa - India can raise itself over time since they have enough smart people living there. The lack of women, female infanticide and the insane dowry customs will have to go one day if they want to go forward, but I am positive that they will manage. But until that time comes you will have a two-tiered society - one that will rather be centered around IQ as the most important determinant of success:

[Image: 03212016-Per-Capita-Income-in-India-To-C...master.png]
05-11-2018 07:35 AM
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Bastard Sword Offline
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RE: Too Many Men: In China and India, men outnumber women by 70 million
^Weird thing about that is that the poorest and shittiest parts of India were actually the places where Indian civilization was at its peak. I honestly doubt it's genetic -- the same people who are now sacrificing women for iPhones were once building this:

[Image: 1280px-Taj_Mahal_%28Edited%29.jpeg]

or this (one of the oldest and greatest universities on the planet for hundreds of years)

[Image: url?sa=i&source=images&c...0686742166]

Both of these were built in Uttar Pradesh/Bihar, the most backward places in India. Many of the modern-day inhabitants of these places are descended from the creators of monuments like this and a high culture that is honestly superior to what large parts of India have now. I doubt it's genetic or IQ based, I think it comes more from horrific poverty. Bihar/Bengal especially were completely stripped by the British and have been horribly mismanaged post Independence.
05-11-2018 04:35 PM
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RE: Too Many Men: In China and India, men outnumber women by 70 million
< Nah - it's rather well known how and why this happens. You need very little high-IQ people to create grand castles and fortification in a medieval system. In addition the regions you mention were under Muslim control from what I know - that simplifies things even more for the rulers. We know that Islam works well in a medieval setting since it streamlines resources and people very well - only when it is supposed to go beyond the Middle Ages does it encounter endemic difficulties. When you reach industrialization and democratic conditions your people need higher averages above 90. When you come to our modern system it's probably more above 97.

So essentially when you are living in a totalitarian medieval system, then all you need to have is a few smarter rulers and a couple hundred/thousand smarter engineers, scientists and builders. The rest can be illiterate manpower and off you go creating palaces.

If you go lower in IQ, then you won't even have the thousands of engineers and rulers, so no palaces are developed. Also - keep in mind - I believe that most human tribes (maybe even all) have the same intellectual potential over time. There are no finite limitations.
(This post was last modified: 05-11-2018 06:25 PM by Simeon_Strangelight.)
05-11-2018 06:16 PM
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Kid Twist Offline
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RE: Too Many Men: In China and India, men outnumber women by 70 million
^^ Haha, "over time."

Yes, a long time.

You're crafty, Zel

Get your passport ready!
05-11-2018 07:14 PM
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RE: Too Many Men: In China and India, men outnumber women by 70 million
(05-11-2018 07:14 PM)Kid Twist Wrote:  ^^ Haha, "over time."

Yes, a long time.

You're crafty, Zel

Obviously - we are not dogs - things take centuries or millennia to affect massive change. Unless genetic engineering is added to the mix or actively state supported positive eugenics - then those changes can come surprisingly quickly. I remember one interview with a 160 IQ black guy living and working in Japan - he said that the first country which puts positive eugenics into place will have such a massive competitive advantage within 2-3 decades, that other countries will be forced to follow.




Women will be running to the DNA testing facility after the first saliva has exchanged mouths.
05-12-2018 02:05 AM
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