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In two minds about TRT therapy
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jbkunt2 Offline
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In two minds about TRT therapy
Hi all,

Initial results are in and I’m at 313 Testosterone level.

Clearly, that’s very low.

I am 31, in decent shape and with a. Good diet and excerciss routine. I’m a heavy social drinker but otherwise damn healthy.

I don’t get many morning woodies. My sex drive is “okay” perhaps, at best.

I’ve never managed to put on muscle from weight training though I know I was doing things fairly well.

I do not suffer from fatigue as I get plenty good sleep. Nor anxiety or any other symptoms like that.

I’m loathe to sign up to jabbing myself in the ass for the rest of my life but at the same time, the potential benefits are very appealing.

I’m going to get another hormone panel done tomorrow and one on Tuesday at a TRT clinic.

I am hoping to speak to an Endo soon.

Has anyone any thoughts/advice? I’ve read through all the T threads in here and they have been very thought provoking.

Cheers.
(This post was last modified: 06-06-2018 09:50 PM by jbkunt2.)
06-06-2018 09:48 PM
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LINUX Away
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RE: In two minds about TRT therapy
It will be easier to give you advice after your second hormone panel. Testosterone varies greatly, the standard deviation is high. It can jump a few hundred points in a day. I know this from personal experience.

TRT is a life-long decision -- sort of.

You should start with the expectation of doing this your whole life. But if decide to come off of it in 5-10 years or so, you can. But trust me, it will be the worst few months of your life as you rebound.

There is a lot of shit information on the internet about testosterone, mostly written by teenagers and people who have only been doing testosterone for a year or so, mostly because veterans just get tired of answering the same questions.

I recently stopped testosterone after taking it for 15 years because I had a surgery and it was necessary to stop it for the time being. A huge misconception in the bodybuilding community is time on = time off for recovery. This is nonsense. I brought my testosterone back to 450 in 29 days after being on for 15 years. But that cost me well over a thousand dollars and traveling to a different country to get the medication I needed. I did a much more intense therapy than just taking clomid and hcg.

So here it is in a nutshell:

Is life better on TRT -- Yes, it is.

Does it have side effects -- Yes, it does.

Can you recover if you stop TRT -- Yes, you can but it will be absolute hell.

Complaining about jabbing your ass once a week is nonsense. You don't feel a 25g needle. If you dont want to inject you ass, then inject another muscle. Quads, chest, delts, calves. They all work.

A few important things.

Don't see an Endo. Find a urologist instead who deals with athletes and someone who actually reads medical journals. And also realize that in the long run, you'll waste a lot of money visiting TRT clinics.

Also when you go in for your hormone panel, make sure you get a PSA test done. Youll need this test if you start TRT, as you'll be monitoring your PSA levels once a year.

Lets talk after your next hormone test.
06-07-2018 01:29 AM
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jbkunt2 Offline
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RE: In two minds about TRT therapy
@linux I massively, massively appreciate this advice. I’m working on getting my second panel done - hopefully today.

Will circle back...

Thanks again.
06-07-2018 09:45 AM
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RatInTheWoods Offline
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RE: In two minds about TRT therapy
(06-07-2018 01:29 AM)LINUX Wrote:  Can you recover if you stop TRT -- Yes, you can but it will be absolute hell.

How is is hell Linux? What were the effects?
06-07-2018 07:34 PM
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CleanSlate Offline
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RE: In two minds about TRT therapy
Just to share my experience both on TRT (100mg/week in two shots with HCG) and coming off.

TRT worked. It raised my test level and I made muscle gains when I trained seriously. But to be honest, it’s hard to say whether the mental and sexual benefits were really from TRT or from a change in my environment (moving to Asia). Maybe both, but I have no idea how much can be attributed to each.

As far as coming off, I did not go through the “hell” LINUX described. But I did a PCT and if done correctly, it will give you a gentle landing rather than a crash. Here’s what I did. Once I stopped my T injections, I doubled my HCG dose per shot for two weeks. Then I stopped HCG and switched to Nolvadex for 4 weeks. Many use Clomid but that has too many estrogenic sides. I took 20 mg of Nolva daily for 3 weeks, then tapered down to 10 mg a day in the fourth week. In the 4 weeks I took nolva and in the two weeks thereafter, I took a low dose AI to prevent an estrogenic bounce. Allowing for individual variations, this is more or less the recommended PCT protocol that Drs. Crisler and Saya use to get their patents off TRT if they ever needed or wanted to.

It’s been 6 months since I stopped everything. I feel fine. I don’t feel that much different than when I was on TRT.
(This post was last modified: 06-07-2018 09:07 PM by CleanSlate.)
06-07-2018 08:17 PM
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MrTickle Offline
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RE: In two minds about TRT therapy
I'm in my 40s and about 6 weeks into TRT. Certainly solved morning wood and libido issues and starting to see some good muscle gains as I am training well at the moment on 5x5. I was mainly looking for changes to energy levels but it is too early to evaluate this. The main thing for me is that I have realised that whilst TRT is started it may be months before I am on optimum TRT strategy and there is no way to hurry this. I am only just coming up to taking a new blood test to check new levels. It will be a case of tweak, wait a few months, tweak again.

Was nervous on the first injection having never done anything like this before. Took me about an hour to get it all done as I checked and rechecked technique. Coming up to my 11th injection (every 5 days for me) and I now look forward to it. Now only takes a few minutes from start to finish.

Quite comfortable that this may be a life thing, but if I get positive results overall then why wouldn't you?

By the way being UK based I have taken the private route, there is no other option really. Whilst I inject myself my blood work and strategy is dictated by a doctor or does a lot of TRT cases rather than a normal GP.

jbkunt2 my advice to you as you are early 30s is to maximise non trt options first. So I would bin the drinking for at least 3-4 months and see if that helps. Also, lift heavy. If that doesn't help then go TRT.

I quit drinking (with the help of this forum) over 2 years ago. As in totally quit. It didn't help with energy and libido but did help with other areas. So I took the TRT option and I am staying off the drink.
06-08-2018 04:27 AM
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LINUX Away
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RE: In two minds about TRT therapy
(06-07-2018 07:34 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  
(06-07-2018 01:29 AM)LINUX Wrote:  Can you recover if you stop TRT -- Yes, you can but it will be absolute hell.

How is is hell Linux? What were the effects?

Hell is feeling suicidal, emotional, jealous, worthless. Imagine having zero male hormones in your body and injecting two different female hormones in high dosages. This does not apply to most people. Remember I was on this medication for 15 years straight. Not too many guys out there have done testosterone that long and stopped. Its a whole different ballpark than just doing a cycle or being on TRT for a few years. I also had a surgery on my testicles during this time and couldn't walk for days. The only thing that kept me from falling apart is my friends. Friends are the most important things we have in life.
(This post was last modified: 06-08-2018 01:23 PM by LINUX.)
06-08-2018 01:19 PM
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jbkunt2 Offline
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RE: In two minds about TRT therapy
Hi all,

Got the results of my second panel and it was quite a lot higher: 577.

Is this decent?

I have an appointment at a male clinic tomorrow where they do the full package for $200. He said they start people in the 500s.
06-11-2018 03:06 PM
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MrTickle Offline
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RE: In two minds about TRT therapy
There is more to it than trying to distill a decision like going on TRT into one number. The only route forward to TRT is to learn how to read a full blood test yourself. That way you can work with your doctor/endo to get the best possible setup (which may not be going on TRT). It also means you can double check their advice.

It sounds like you are going to the right place rather than just a normal doctor so will be interesting to hear what their conclusions were.
06-13-2018 04:00 AM
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Fortis Away
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RE: In two minds about TRT therapy
I don't regret it one bit. I literally do see my life as two eras:

Pre-TRT and Post-TRT.

If you feel fine, keep going, but if you are not sure, then keep doing research. Linux has a great thread full of directions on how to proceed if you should decide you want to go on.

I will be checking my PMs weekly, so you can catch me there. I will not be posting.
06-13-2018 05:36 AM
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doc holliday Offline
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RE: In two minds about TRT therapy
At age 31 with a second reading of 577, I would wait on doing TRT. They're probably a lot of lifestyle changes you could make first to bump up your T levels, especially at your age. If you do decide to do TRT it is a long term committment and I say this as someone who went on TRT 3 years ago and is quite satisfied with it. I am almost 50 though so and I think if I was your age I would wait on doing TRT. It's up to you though ultimately.
06-13-2018 05:42 PM
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