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The push to make the forum "apolitical" is actually very politically-motivated
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kuqezi Offline
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Post: #26
RE: The push to make the forum "apolitical" is actually very politically-mot...
(06-26-2018 08:32 AM)Going strong Wrote:  
(06-26-2018 07:13 AM)the-dream Wrote:  There are a lot of us on this forum who faced the hurdles that feminism, Western governments etc. are putting on men and overcame them and pivoted our life to a point where we have the upper hand and those things are not such a deciding factor on our lives anymore.

OK, "those things" (politics) might not be such a deciding factor on our lives anymore, but is it a reason for not accepting to discuss them anymore, should the occasion arise?

Also, less-enlightened people, young members, still need our (political) guidance, don't they? - whether or not we "wise men" are personally above all of this.

VERY DEBATABLE!
06-26-2018 11:09 AM
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Going strong Offline
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Post: #27
RE: The push to make the forum "apolitical" is actually very politically-mot...
(06-26-2018 10:28 AM)Redcloud Wrote:  
(06-26-2018 05:02 AM)Going strong Wrote:  we red-pill men still have to put politics at the forefront.

A lot of guys seem to be conflating conservatism with the Red Pill, because they think Red Pill means “tough.”

They are not the same thing. In fact, a dogmatic belief and adherence to any one political ideology is, by definition, Blue Pill.

True Red Pill views on politics are much closer to nihilism (realizing that political arguments are largely fruitless and meaningless because there is no "truth" in politics) than they are to either side of the political spectrum.

If you want to claim Red Pill, then you need to become outcome independent in regard to politics, not hide behind it and appropriate it to strengthen your own agenda driven talking points.

I absolutely disagree. Being an anarchist is not being red-pill, anarchists are a ludicrous stain on History.

"a dogmatic belief and adherence to any one political ideology is, by definition, Blue Pill". Except if this "dogmatic" belief happens to be the truth. And right-wing beliefs are the truth. I would even say that they are the Truth in the eyes of God. So you can keep your relativism and Bakunin "nihilism".

political arguments are largely fruitless: except when these political arguments make people win elections, and take (say, executive) action. Then by definition they are proven to be fruitful.
06-26-2018 12:05 PM
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cascadecombo Offline
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Post: #28
RE: The push to make the forum "apolitical" is actually very politically-mot...
Are you trying to say the political arguments here got trump in office?
06-26-2018 12:15 PM
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Repo Offline
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Post: #29
RE: The push to make the forum "apolitical" is actually very politically-motivated
The dank memes got Trump in office
06-26-2018 12:16 PM
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the-dream Offline
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Post: #30
RE: The push to make the forum "apolitical" is actually very politically-motivated
(06-26-2018 08:32 AM)Going strong Wrote:  
(06-26-2018 07:13 AM)the-dream Wrote:  There are a lot of us on this forum who faced the hurdles that feminism, Western governments etc. are putting on men and overcame them and pivoted our life to a point where we have the upper hand and those things are not such a deciding factor on our lives anymore.

OK, "those things" (politics) might not be such a deciding factor on our lives anymore, but is it a reason for not accepting to discuss them anymore, should the occasion arise?

Also, less-enlightened people, young members, still need our (political) guidance, don't they? - whether or not we "wise men" are personally above all of this.

I'm all for discussing, they are issues that need to be discussed.

I'm just against discussing them in threads where the issue doesn't arise and alienating the posters who are actually having a good discussion.

I'm young, inexperienced and don't know a lot about politics or most things in life. A lot of what didn't feel right to me in society when I was younger but couldn't put my finger on exactly what it was exactly has been articulated perfectly in this forum and I agree with many of the underlying message of the political posts here. However more recently, these ideas are taken too far and becomes just as much of a joke as the opinions of the feminists, SJWs etc.

Let the football thread be about football. If you don't find football interesting and would rather talk about politics or race in football, start a new thread instead of hijacking the football fans' thread who just want to talk about the games.

If someone is dropping some knowledge from their business or travel experience, don't come in fighting them with conspiracy theories and insults, challenge them with questions that will help us get invaluable knowledge from them if they know what they're talking about and expose them as fake if they are bluffing.

That's what I ask.

And my final point, I don't think political posts are the big culprit here. It is race posts.
06-26-2018 12:34 PM
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Teedub Offline
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Post: #31
RE: The push to make the forum "apolitical" is actually very politically-motivated
(06-26-2018 05:02 AM)Going strong Wrote:  2- Most posters who advocate for "less politics" on the forum Dodgy, actually are very politicized themselves. Often, they are more or less secretly Left-leaning and when they say, Stop the politicization of the forum, what they really mean is: let's curb the Conservatism and "right-wing opinions" prevalent here on RVF, so that we "Liberals" take control of the threads.

That's not true, at all. I'm probably the main poster in the Tommy Robinson thread, and I've been pretty politically active IRL for over 10 years. Just because I don't want every thread being derailed into talk about the JQ or Muslim immigration doesn't mean I'm a secret leftist. It's actually an absurd accusation. Anyway, people like Strikeback and others have made the point.

That Ronaldo gif was incredibly funny by the way, Lemon.

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06-26-2018 01:34 PM
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Going strong Offline
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Post: #32
RE: The push to make the forum "apolitical" is actually very politically-mot...
(06-26-2018 12:15 PM)cascadecombo Wrote:  Are you trying to say the political arguments here got trump in office?

Of course it's not what I am saying. And please put a T (uppercase letter) at the beginning of the name of the president of the most powerful country in History, it's basic respect for such an immensely powerful and successful man.

Anyway, I'm saying political arguments being held two years ago all over the USA (and at townhouse meetings), had D. Trump (rightly) elected. Also, the political argument (debate) he had with crooked-ELE Hillary (the one where Trump, legitimately infuriated by sex-related allegations, removed the gloves and went after her, mercilessly), got him elected.
(This post was last modified: 06-26-2018 02:03 PM by Going strong.)
06-26-2018 02:01 PM
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Simeon_Strangelight Offline
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Post: #33
RE: The push to make the forum "apolitical" is actually very politically-motivated
As for the FIFA soccer thread and the push to demand an out of politics - this was done mostly by two Muslim newbies. So in this case it's clear who does not want what mentioned - it's not exactly leftism, just leftism in the West and conservatism in Turkey/Morocco.

There is soccer which is apolitical mostly when celebrations in the fan regions are concerned. But soccer in that respect is political and the demands of 2-3 members who unilaterally police the thread (one in broken illiterate English while already living in the West), that has to have certain limits as well.

Sure - sometimes politics is overdoing it and I will agree with it, but you gotta realize who is making those demands and for what reason. "Love football, but don't care about who is winning or how and why your team looks the way it does." In that respect you could take delight in the skills of every team since you are cheering for quality and not even nationality.
(This post was last modified: 06-26-2018 02:14 PM by Simeon_Strangelight.)
06-26-2018 02:13 PM
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Going strong Offline
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Post: #34
RE: The push to make the forum "apolitical" is actually very politically-mot...
(06-26-2018 02:13 PM)Simeon_Strangelight Wrote:  As for the FIFA soccer thread and the push to demand an out of politics - this was done mostly by two Muslim newbies. So in this case it's clear who does not want what mentioned - it's not exactly leftism, just leftism in the West and conservatism in Turkey/Morocco.

There is soccer which is apolitical mostly when celebrations in the fan regions are concerned. But soccer in that respect is political and the demands of 2-3 members who unilaterally police the thread (one in broken illiterate English while already living in the West), that has to have certain limits as well.

Also, how can one pretend that the Fifa is not crooked and ultra-politicized (as in ultra-multikuDodgy), when one sees the penalty refused to Serbia (against Kosovar Swisses) and the one scandalously granted to Nigeria (against right-wing Argentina), just a few minutes ago... It's just plain obvious. The Fifa has even created a "video room" to grant belated penalties to its favored multiku teams.
06-26-2018 02:27 PM
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jordypip23 Offline
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Post: #35
RE: The push to make the forum "apolitical" is actually very politically-mot...
(06-26-2018 02:13 PM)Simeon_Strangelight Wrote:  As for the FIFA soccer thread and the push to demand an out of politics - this was done mostly by two Muslim newbies. So in this case it's clear who does not want what mentioned - it's not exactly leftism, just leftism in the West and conservatism in Turkey/Morocco.

There is soccer which is apolitical mostly when celebrations in the fan regions are concerned. But soccer in that respect is political and the demands of 2-3 members who unilaterally police the thread (one in broken illiterate English while already living in the West), that has to have certain limits as well.

Sure - sometimes politics is overdoing it and I will agree with it, but you gotta realize who is making those demands and for what reason. "Love football, but don't care about who is winning or how and why your team looks the way it does." In that respect you could take delight in the skills of every team since you are cheering for quality and not even nationality.

Very good points. We think the political / religious debates are heated now....just wait till the World Cup lands in Doha (Qatar) in 4 years.
06-26-2018 02:27 PM
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nomadbrah Offline
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Post: #36
RE: The push to make the forum "apolitical" is actually very politically-mot...
To me, the major attraction of international soccer used to be the wide variety of style. This diversity was rooted in football culture, which again was rooted in culture.

Why did the Brazilians do the "joga bonita"? They don't anymore by the way, now they're all on the "scientific football side" like everyone else. Why do the Germans press on like a well oiled machine (of war)? Why do Spanish refuse to get grass on their shorts? Why do Italians want to win above all, not caring if they play destructive anti-football? Why do Balkan team play some of the best football in the world when ahead, but falter too easily when behind? Why do african teams excite with their jubilant offensive game, while making weird tactical mistakes?

This was obviously a fascinating and ultimately positive celebration of the diversity of the people of the world.

On the other hand, today we largely have teams all play the same, result maxizing, scientific, tactical style of play, driven by the insane amounts of money in the game to succeed at any cost, while teams are no longer made up of people of similar ethnicity and culture, but of a hodge podge of mercenaries taking up flag to fight for who will pay them the most.

I find this decadent. I imagine a roman patrician in the death troes of the empire, rejoicing that the barbaric germanic mercenaries have achieved some military conquest somewhere.

I guess, I don't understand the mindset of the football fanboy here. For sure there are better places to nerd it up about Messi vs Ronaldo than here?
(This post was last modified: 06-26-2018 02:45 PM by nomadbrah.)
06-26-2018 02:38 PM
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Teedub Offline
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Post: #37
RE: The push to make the forum "apolitical" is actually very politically-motivated
(06-26-2018 02:27 PM)jordypip23 Wrote:  
(06-26-2018 02:13 PM)Simeon_Strangelight Wrote:  As for the FIFA soccer thread and the push to demand an out of politics - this was done mostly by two Muslim newbies. So in this case it's clear who does not want what mentioned - it's not exactly leftism, just leftism in the West and conservatism in Turkey/Morocco.

There is soccer which is apolitical mostly when celebrations in the fan regions are concerned. But soccer in that respect is political and the demands of 2-3 members who unilaterally police the thread (one in broken illiterate English while already living in the West), that has to have certain limits as well.

Sure - sometimes politics is overdoing it and I will agree with it, but you gotta realize who is making those demands and for what reason. "Love football, but don't care about who is winning or how and why your team looks the way it does." In that respect you could take delight in the skills of every team since you are cheering for quality and not even nationality.

Very good points. We think the political / religious debates are heated now....just wait till the World Cup lands in Doha (Qatar) in 4 years.

That's a worthy political debate, and I'm sure there will be threads nearer the time set up for that. What people are irritated by is a thread like "Isn't Carlsberg the best beer guys?" getting invaded with "Hmm... any beer with "berg" in the name is part of a Jewish operation to poison the European population into becoming transexuals."

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06-26-2018 03:29 PM
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redpillage Offline
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Post: #38
RE: The push to make the forum "apolitical" is actually very politically-mot...
(06-26-2018 10:33 AM)LEMONed IScream Wrote:  Against such nihilist denial of life, Nietzsche proposes the concept of the "revaluation (or trans valuation) of values". Nietzsche does not, as some primitive nietzschean thinkers said, propose that everything is relative and subjective. But he does say, that value is something we, as humans, must produce ourselves, and that we have to not rely on dogma.

Agree

This man gets it.

That said 'true nihilism' is not going to work for 95% of the population who desperately cling to an emotional escape valve in the form of organized religion in order to tolerate their own mediocre existence (and I'm talking about Western nations here - anywhere below an IQ of 92 it's probably 99% of the population).

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06-26-2018 03:52 PM
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Post: #39
RE: The push to make the forum "apolitical" is actually very politically-mot...
(06-26-2018 03:52 PM)redpillage Wrote:  
(06-26-2018 10:33 AM)LEMONed IScream Wrote:  Against such nihilist denial of life, Nietzsche proposes the concept of the "revaluation (or trans valuation) of values".



This man gets it.


His post was directly copied from Quora: Link

Perhaps he forgot to indicate that he was copying and pasting someone else's writing, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.
06-26-2018 04:14 PM
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RE: The push to make the forum "apolitical" is actually very politically-mot...
(06-26-2018 02:13 PM)Simeon_Strangelight Wrote:  As for the FIFA soccer thread and the push to demand an out of politics - this was done mostly by two Muslim newbies.

[Image: 2qs2zba.jpg]

Myself, Rudebwoy, and others called you out on that. Not one of us is Muslim, as far as I know.

Liar.
06-26-2018 04:27 PM
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thebassist Offline
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Post: #41
RE: The push to make the forum "apolitical" is actually very politically-mot...
(06-26-2018 01:34 PM)Teedub Wrote:  
(06-26-2018 05:02 AM)Going strong Wrote:  2- Most posters who advocate for "less politics" on the forum Dodgy, actually are very politicized themselves. Often, they are more or less secretly Left-leaning and when they say, Stop the politicization of the forum, what they really mean is: let's curb the Conservatism and "right-wing opinions" prevalent here on RVF, so that we "Liberals" take control of the threads.

That's not true, at all. I'm probably the main poster in the Tommy Robinson thread, and I've been pretty politically active IRL for over 10 years. Just because I don't want every thread being derailed into talk about the JQ or Muslim immigration doesn't mean I'm a secret leftist. It's actually an absurd accusation. Anyway, people like Strikeback and others have made the point.

The irony of it all is that, though GS implies that those criticizing him are secret leftists trying to suppress right-wing ideas, he is unintentionally the most subversive of leftist actors in the way that he devalues right-wing ideas by repeatedly trying to connect them to completely unrelated situations in the most ridiculously absurd ways.

Food for thought.

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(This post was last modified: 06-26-2018 04:44 PM by thebassist.)
06-26-2018 04:42 PM
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Post: #42
RE: The push to make the forum "apolitical" is actually very politically-mot...
Another thought with that would be, knowing that there are people who don't wish to engage in political discourse it would behoove him to push said discourse to further attempt to alienate said posters.

I myself am right leaning and support president trump but have little desire to engage in or b me bogged down with political discussions every time I visit the forum. A place was created for people to engage in those discussions and seeing every other thread break down into some sort of political or conspiratorial argument has little merit.

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06-26-2018 04:48 PM
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Going strong Offline
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Post: #43
RE: The push to make the forum "apolitical" is actually very politically-mot...
(06-26-2018 04:42 PM)thebassist Wrote:  
(06-26-2018 01:34 PM)Teedub Wrote:  
(06-26-2018 05:02 AM)Going strong Wrote:  2- Most posters who advocate for "less politics" on the forum Dodgy, actually are very politicized themselves. Often, they are more or less secretly Left-leaning and when they say, Stop the politicization of the forum, what they really mean is: let's curb the Conservatism and "right-wing opinions" prevalent here on RVF, so that we "Liberals" take control of the threads.

That's not true, at all. I'm probably the main poster in the Tommy Robinson thread, and I've been pretty politically active IRL for over 10 years. Just because I don't want every thread being derailed into talk about the JQ or Muslim immigration doesn't mean I'm a secret leftist. It's actually an absurd accusation. Anyway, people like Strikeback and others have made the point.

The irony of it all is that, though GS implies that those criticizing him are secret leftists trying to suppress right-wing ideas, he is unintentionally the most subversive of leftist actors in the way that he devalues right-wing ideas by repeatedly trying to connect them to completely unrelated situations in the most ridiculously absurd ways.

Food for thought.

So I am a Leftist posing as a Right-Winger to denounce Leftists in order to weaken Right-Wing politics by fighting Leftist politics?

Mindblown

Also, can you tell us precisely which right-wing ideas I'd allegedly devalue?
06-26-2018 05:03 PM
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Sidney Crosby Offline
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Post: #44
RE: The push to make the forum "apolitical" is actually very politically-motivated
So Nola/NTP is a Soros operative aiming to destroy RVF?
06-26-2018 05:04 PM
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Cobra Offline
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RE: The push to make the forum "apolitical" is actually very politically-motivated
I would strongly disagree that there is some leftist agenda out there with the group that wants to de-politicize the forum. As a matter of fact, consider me a vocal member of that group before I even continue.


I'll tell you what. There are prominent members that have added a lot of value to the forum that are actually very liberal. To clarify, they have added value to the game and travel sections of the forum, not politics. A few are good friends of mine. When we get together and shoot the shit, politics are the last thing on our minds and often never comes up. If one of them brings it up, I don't get into it. To say that these members are politicizing anything is nothing more than a stretch of the imagination.


My problem is that there are certainly a few tools within the politics sub-forums that are not only racist but hateful turds. Why? They can't get past their right wing politics to judge someone's character. I have called out a few for being basement dwelling soyboys. These "right wing" loons are a lot worse for the forum than well meaning left leaning forum members. What's worse? Those well meaning forum members participate even less because of the political turd-cloud that the participation of said tools creates. My point: Certain liberal or left leaning forum members are a LOT more red pill than some of these right wingers. This is coming from an assessment resulting from my relationships with them; not some theory I made up.

My own view: Character first, race last! This was one of the founding principles of the forum that game is based on. However, problem is that politics can create a differing viewpoint from this that some of these members turn from just a mere viewpoint to an actual belief system that they then apply to justify their existence. Fuck that! I have time neither for the disingenuity in those posts, nor the lack of practical world experience of the posters that gain further feels by jacking each other off.

Edit: My love for this thread is growing because I have this feeling that it will contain the next big meltdown.

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06-26-2018 05:09 PM
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Post: #46
RE: The push to make the forum "apolitical" is actually very politically-mot...
(06-26-2018 05:03 PM)Going strong Wrote:  
(06-26-2018 04:42 PM)thebassist Wrote:  The irony of it all is that, though GS implies that those criticizing him are secret leftists trying to suppress right-wing ideas, he is unintentionally the most subversive of leftist actors in the way that he devalues right-wing ideas by repeatedly trying to connect them to completely unrelated situations in the most ridiculously absurd ways.

Food for thought.

Also, can you tell us precisely which right-wing ideas I'd allegedly devalue?

I'll give you an example from none other than your previous post.

Going strong Wrote:Also, how can one pretend that the Fifa is not crooked and ultra-politicized (as in ultra-multikuDodgy), when one sees the penalty refused to Serbia (against Kosovar Swisses) and the one scandalously granted to Nigeria (against right-wing Argentina), just a few minutes ago... It's just plain obvious. The Fifa has even created a "video room" to grant belated penalties to its favored multiku teams.

> Valid Issue: FIFA is an organization acting in accordance with globalist goals and values
> Absurd, ridiculous connection devaluing valid issue: Penalty denied to Serbia and granted to Nigeria, obviously this is evidence of FIFA's collusion with 'mulitikuliti' agenda.

Every discussion that you touch must become about you and your pet issues, no matter how irrelevant, much like this very thread, where you conflate people's annoyance with your tendency to shit up threads with unrelated bullshit as an attack on right-wing ideas by secret leftists.

You are no different than leftists who alienate people from their cause by the relentless connection of everything to their own pet issues, except instead of 'toxic masculinity' and 'racism' it is right-wing issues.

Myself and other members have called you out on your annoying, trollish behavior multiple times already, some much nicer than others, but it seems you are unable to get the message.

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(This post was last modified: 06-26-2018 05:53 PM by thebassist.)
06-26-2018 05:52 PM
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Post: #47
RE: The push to make the forum "apolitical" is actually very politically-mot...
(06-26-2018 05:52 PM)thebassist Wrote:  
(06-26-2018 05:03 PM)Going strong Wrote:  
(06-26-2018 04:42 PM)thebassist Wrote:  The irony of it all is that, though GS implies that those criticizing him are secret leftists trying to suppress right-wing ideas, he is unintentionally the most subversive of leftist actors in the way that he devalues right-wing ideas by repeatedly trying to connect them to completely unrelated situations in the most ridiculously absurd ways.

Food for thought.

Also, can you tell us precisely which right-wing ideas I'd allegedly devalue?

I'll give you an example from none other than your previous post.

Going strong Wrote:Also, how can one pretend that the Fifa is not crooked and ultra-politicized (as in ultra-multikuDodgy), when one sees the penalty refused to Serbia (against Kosovar Swisses) and the one scandalously granted to Nigeria (against right-wing Argentina), just a few minutes ago... It's just plain obvious. The Fifa has even created a "video room" to grant belated penalties to its favored multiku teams.

> Valid Issue: FIFA is an organization acting in accordance with globalist goals and values
> Absurd, ridiculous connection devaluing valid issue: Penalty denied to Serbia and granted to Nigeria, obviously this is evidence of FIFA's collusion with 'mulitikuliti' agenda.

Myself and other members have called you out on your annoying, trollish behavior multiple times already, some much nicer than others, but it seems you are unable to get the message.

You forgot something: The penalties, granted or rejected by the Fifa, are now and for the first time decided (evaluated) behind closed doors, with mysterious Fifa employees watching replays and attributing, or not, penalties. So yes, I do contend that these Fifa employees are cheating while behind closed doors, and making political decisions on penalties.

Now, your second assertion: "other members have called you out on your annoying, trollish behavior multiple times already" Dodgy

What are you talking about? Which other members?

My PMs here on the forum contain zero message from members "denouncing my trollish behavior".

Anyway, I think that some posters here are just trying to shut down this thread, by multiplying the ad-nominem attacks, instead of debating in a civil manner.
So I guess the moderators will have little choice but closing the thread. Sad, many members would have liked to read interesting and calm discussions on the importance of politics. Instead we have personal attacks.

Hijacked
(This post was last modified: 06-26-2018 06:10 PM by Going strong.)
06-26-2018 06:03 PM
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cascadecombo Offline
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Post: #48
RE: The push to make the forum "apolitical" is actually very politically-mot...
Watch out, mysterious FIFA employees are ruining soccer behind closed doors by watching videos!
06-26-2018 06:09 PM
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Kona Offline
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Post: #49
RE: The push to make the forum "apolitical" is actually very politically-mot...
How about if you are gonna make a political post in the soccer thread you only can type with your feet or forehead?

Aloha!
06-26-2018 06:15 PM
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LeBeau Offline
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Post: #50
RE: The push to make the forum "apolitical" is actually very politically-mot...
A politics rant derailed by soccer...

This thread is not going in the direction Abu Sayyaf was hoping for.
06-26-2018 06:18 PM
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