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Feelings of hopelessness and mental fatigue
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ksbms Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Feelings of hopelessness and mental fatigue
What would Elon Musk do? I reckon he'd go to first principles and try to work out the best possible solution, both short- and long-term. Identify the goal(s), then divide it into smaller, workable chunks and apply one day at a time.

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(This post was last modified: 07-09-2018 08:53 AM by ksbms.)
07-09-2018 08:53 AM
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Delta Online
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Post: #27
RE: Feelings of hopelessness and mental fatigue
(07-08-2018 08:12 PM)BadKing Wrote:  OP you have two choices; either you lower your standards and move on girls that are giddy and nervous around you; or you learn to create an atmosphere and fully carry the conversation with the level of girls you’re currently approaching.

What’s happening is they think they’re better than you, so unless you prove to have amazing conversational abilities—they are not interested.

When you feel you’re too good for someone you make minimal effort. Girls dig it.

You have to be more attractive than them to pull it off. In your case you’re on the other end.

The rare girls that do have the 'giddy' vibe tend to be the cuter ones, which makes sense if you think about it. Just about any low-mid 20's girl can be attractive if she puts in a little effort, meaning those that are lazy/clueless enough to get chubby and go around looking like shit are also too lazy/clueless to put any effort into connecting with a man. These types just have zero awareness that demonstrating value to the opposite sex is a thing people go out of their way to do. The fitter, more well-put together girls at least have some innate understanding that they need to bring value to the table, which enhances their personality as well.

The fundamental challenge is that girls in the latter category are rare, and unfathomably sought after. They have no need to seriously use dating apps or meetup.com or anything of that nature, unless they're either super introverted or just moved to a new location where they don't know anyone. I've found success before using dating sites to meet the introverted types, but god are those difficult to come by. I would like to supplement it with a different approach, as people have suggested, I just need to figure out how exactly... deep suburbia has some unique challenges.
07-09-2018 06:04 PM
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Bastard Sword Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Feelings of hopelessness and mental fatigue
This is an interesting post - it proves that even tall, good looking, in shape white guys like Delta still have issues with women and are massively disheartened by the realities of modern dating. It's interesting to me because I notice that many people who don't fit into this category (anything from short/ugly/average looking white guys to minorities) feel like there's a massive status bump associated with being a tall, good looking white guy. Being a tall, good looking white guy may get your more matches on Tinder, and a couple more women may be automatically attracted to you, but it also doesn't free you from the realities of the dating market. Women may become slightly more available for guys like him, but they don't automatically turn into feminine wife material (quite the opposite, in fact).
07-11-2018 05:31 PM
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chicane Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Feelings of hopelessness and mental fatigue
I agree with this. I don't even meet women who I would even consider dating these days. I went to a singles event a while back where there were about 30 women. All of them were overweight, from "needs to lose 20 pounds" to "has her own ZIP code". There wasn't a single one I would have considered dating.
This is typical of modern America.

In the past I have almost always met women through various social circles, science fiction fandom, Mensa, theatre, etc. Now those have all gone down the progressive rabbit hole, I'm rather unwelcome. I've tried a number of other things, church has become horribly feminist, (Republican) politics has few single women, tech groups have few women and I focus on my workouts when at the gym.

The isolation has really been getting to me.
07-11-2018 07:24 PM
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Post: #30
RE: Feelings of hopelessness and mental fatigue
(07-11-2018 05:31 PM)Bastard Sword Wrote:  This is an interesting post - it proves that even tall, good looking, in shape white guys like Delta still have issues with women and are massively disheartened by the realities of modern dating. It's interesting to me because I notice that many people who don't fit into this category (anything from short/ugly/average looking white guys to minorities) feel like there's a massive status bump associated with being a tall, good looking white guy. Being a tall, good looking white guy may get your more matches on Tinder, and a couple more women may be automatically attracted to you, but it also doesn't free you from the realities of the dating market. Women may become slightly more available for guys like him, but they don't automatically turn into feminine wife material (quite the opposite, in fact).

It's even worse than that. You think I get a decent amount of Tinder matches? I don't bother with Tinder, but I do use Bumble. My main photo tested in the top 10% of attractiveness on photofeeler. All of my other photos also clock in well above average. Job automatically shows on Bumble too, and if girls bothered to look up mine, they'd see that I'm doing very well for myself. So I must get a lot of prospects right?

I'm pretty certain I match with fewer than 2% of the girls I swipe right on. Maybe even fewer than 1%, I don't really keep count. And those that I do match with often don't start a conversation. And those that do start a conversation don't try at all and usually stop responding after a message or two. I've spent a a serious amount of time using Bumble and haven't landed a single date from it. Yeah there are others apps I've had much more success on, but I run out of prospects on those in no time. And no matter what app or communication medium I happen to be using, even in person, I constantly run into the same problem:

Girls absolutely refuse to try.

Almost every interaction with single women feels like their mind is devoted 100% to evaluation and 0% to making a good impression themselves. It's like they're setting up a mental obstacle course for men to navigate- "Okay I'll make sure I give him absolutely nothing to work with and see if he can still manage to entertain me. If not, I have a hundred other guys willing to give it a shot." Not verbalized that way of course, but that's precisely what it feels like.

I don't think it's possible to convey in words how lopsided and demoralizing the dating market is, at least where I am.
(This post was last modified: 07-11-2018 10:02 PM by Delta.)
07-11-2018 10:01 PM
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Eugenics Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Feelings of hopelessness and mental fatigue
Delta, I feel you man. I feel like we're in a similar spot in life although you're probably a little more attractive and most likely more financially sound than me. The stats don't really matter though. Remember we're on a game forum, it's all in your behavior my dude.

Let me be clear. The dating market is fucked up. I'm a 6'1 white guy with blonde hair blue eyes. I have modest physique, not really in amazing shape but I'm not a slouch. I run 2-3 miles and lift at least once a week. I'm a healthy weight with functional muscle mass. I have my own car, my job lets me be extremely independent and make my own schedule, I have good friends, love my family, no tattoos (not to get all hank moody but I'm pretty sure that's not a good thing), and am impressively handy. Like I can run electric conduit, fix a car, use power tools, play chess, read philosophy, amazing with computers, etc etc etc. I'm an extremely effective problem solver. I don't have any pedigree at all I had to learn all this stuff to entertain myself and survive (once again, that could count against me, but for a lot of women that are middle class and below it should be good right?). I'm not rich, I have a weird face and fucked up teeth, I mean I'm not deformed, I do have all my teeth, I work hard on my appearance to make up for it but still should be good right?

By all reasonable accounts I should be in the top 20% of men. Just look at the stats right? I have to work fucking haaaaard to break through a woman's bitch shields. Like ridiculously hard, it gets me the fuck down sometimes. Online dating is soul crushing, and i mean it. It fucks my ego bad. I routinely get salty as fuck when I get rejected online by some paunchy 5 I thought I would be doing a favor by using her as a slump buster.

Let me tell you what gets me through it. One my accomplishments, I don't need a woman to tell me I did well for myself with the hand I was delt, and I don't need a woman to show me that I'm the shit. You know what? I used to think about it like this and I even made my own stupid term for it. I used to think of women as biological indicators of success, and by all accounts on the surface that's what it looks like. You see a successful man you see a good looking woman that adores him right? Wrong. He's successful because he's successful, his wife or girlfriend didn't do it for him. It's all him man, the woman didn't do shit but follow her programming. She likely is a net loss on his life. Most these girls we're going after are fucking losers. Like good old Patrice (RIP) used to say, you take any one of these beautiful women and put them into a mans body and tell them to get to work? They'll be sucking dick for 20 dollar bills by the end of the day. They could never do what you or I had done. So then there's a little resentment right? I feel it too sometimes, even my tone as you can tell is a little salty. But we're different organisms, we might as well live on different planets. We serve completely different functions. And once I stop comparing myself to a woman (which is insane by the way) I snap the fuck out of it. And the hard part for me was to actually put aside the resentment and put aside the stupid comparisons and actually love women for the way they are. You compare a woman to a man and in almost every way besides a few niche psychological phenomenonas, and being sexually attractive and bearing children they just do not hold up. They age like shit, they're ditzy as fuck, they have rarely have street smarts. They really are overgrown children. And you know what at the end of the day, after all the shit I talk. I love them for it and that's why we're all here. You gotta remember, women don't go around comparing themselves to men (at least in any serious capacity, they wouldn't know how if they tried). They have their little beauty game, their little sex appeal game, their social game, and they are kaput my friend. They hit the goddamn wall. They're fragile, everything about them. You have to respect their hustle, it's not our hustle but you have to respect it. They get a really small window during which for most of it they're confused, lost, insecure, broken inside. The only real power most of them have is beauty and social prowess, and they don't even know how to wield it, what a fucking Greek tragedy right? The only reason women can even exist in the west the way it is is because men let them and they have extraordinary psychological defense mechanisms. Notice how they cry at everygoddamn thing. They live in the moment, they cry and they're done. They don't ponder for hours on end like we do, they don't have time for that shit.

Which brings me to my next point. Being a man is awesome as fuck. You actually have the capacity to control your own destiny in a serious way. You have MUCH broader options in life. You want to snag an 8 and you're a 5. YOU. CAN. DO. IT. Sure, it's hard, but so is life and so is being a man but the important part is it's possible. Make money, lift weights, study game until your eyes bleed and the anxiety goes away. Do you know how smart,lucky, and perfect storm receiving a female 5 has to be to lock down a male 8 and get that sweet sweet commitment and genes, like a real male 8 we're talking about by female standards. An alpha male with status, options, looks, game and money. Ridiculously hard and she probably only has a 10 year window to do it. Even if she does she'll probably fuck it up after wasting her prime doing it. We're not on the same kind of time with such limited options. That's part of why the sexual market is fucked up, they have to leverage all their shit, quick, right now and they're good at it. And of course our society is enabling some awful behaviour and all that but that's where we are right now. That's where you see women having almost unfathomable power in the sexual marketplace, me and you aren't going to change it. But we can look after ourselves and eachother man. Learn game, it's the A++ secret fucking weapon, you learn enough game and make the right lifestyle choices and it's all possible.

So that's why we learn game and subject ourselves to the harsh truths of the reality. People have probably been saying it's hard as fuck for 1000s of years. It's not getting any easier. Just know it's possible.

I'm having immense frustration right now just trying to get a few plates spinning after getting out of a failed LTR, let alone finding the mother of my children. But you know what man, every year or so I run into some honest to god prospects, and every year I fuck it up. That's on me, nobody but this forum has ever helped me with that struggle and ya'll are great with your knowledge but there's only so much that can be done behind a computer screen, and even if there was nobody is going to hand it to me. We all know this, and it's easy to get demoralized about it. But brother, you gotta push yourself out of that defeatist mindset. If we're being honest with eachother you and I both know there are PLENTY of mother-worthy single young girls out there then the real question is what the fuck are you going to do to get one, keep yourself sane, screen correctly, and a whole myriad of other balancing acts. For me it's enough to know that it's possible and within my reach or at least it will be eventually. As long as you keep working on yourself and learning game and be diligent, gather wisdom and all these other virtues you will do it. It's a daily struggle dude, you can't let anything slip. That includes keeping a healthy mindset. How often have you got too comfortable and complacent with an LTR and it bites you in the ass? Or how about got depressed and your girl loses respect for you because she sees weakness or some other fucked up shit that you think women would be sympathetic about? I have, i have a lot. Our whole lives or like that for us man, and it's never going to change. So with a lot of work and a little luck you can get what you want.

Also remember to get offline for a good period of time every now and then. The regular sexual market is tough, but online is SOUL CRUSHING. You know what I'm talking about, it's not representative of real life and it will fuck your ego up.

Wish you the best my brother, I'm on some painkillers from a recent minor surgery hope this world salad makes sense.
(This post was last modified: 07-12-2018 01:22 AM by Eugenics.)
07-12-2018 01:16 AM
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Post: #32
RE: Feelings of hopelessness and mental fatigue
My advice for these sorts of situations boils down to "steel yourself." I think everyone who has ever taken the redpill sometimes feels a bit bummed by life. You realize that the game is stacked against you and, despite your best efforts, you're sort of fucked. You're technically forced to play a game you cannot win.

On the flipside, realize that we were all born into the best time in history. You can make money without "working" laborious, backbreaking jobs and you can use computers and applications to streamline your life and life the way you want.

Acknowledge the bad, but also recognize the good things.

There are a lot of redeemable things about this life: the thoughts of great men (books), friends and family. Try to find solace in these things and you'll pull through.

Let us try to maintain a higher standard of life than that of the multitude, but not a contrary standard; otherwise, we shall frighten away and repel the very persons whom we are trying to improve.

-Seneca.
07-12-2018 01:20 AM
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Zep Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Feelings of hopelessness and mental fatigue
Good post Eugenics.

@Delta;

So, most of the guys here have said it: Stop Online

You live deep in the suburbs? that's not good.

As others have mentioned, travel, plan a trip to a major city, London, New York, maybe an EE country, and see how little your world mirrors others in terms of available prospects. That should give you some energy. If it does, you know what to do next --- move!

Your world will change.
(This post was last modified: 07-12-2018 07:00 AM by Zep.)
07-12-2018 06:58 AM
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Post: #34
RE: Feelings of hopelessness and mental fatigue
Agreed with Zep. I have had all the feelings the OP had. Same exact thoughts and feelings. How to get out of this rut?

Move.
07-12-2018 07:29 AM
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ksbms Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Feelings of hopelessness and mental fatigue
(07-08-2018 10:10 PM)Rocha Wrote:  Quit online and start approach in real life, travel, learn a foreign language...
Problem solved.

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07-12-2018 07:48 AM
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jcardial Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Feelings of hopelessness and mental fatigue
You live in the suburbs and are complaining about a lack of options? Come on man, be realistic. The single scene is obviously going to suck online or not. Find a way to move to a bigger and better city.

Hot women get invited to parties and dates by quality confident dudes all of the time. The more attractive demographic doesn't need to take online dating seriously with so much real life demand where the guys have been vouched for to some degree by their social circles (saving them time and risk). A small fraction of the hottest women online are actually serious about meeting someone and most probably do it for the self esteem boost.
07-12-2018 10:41 AM
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Bastard Sword Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Feelings of hopelessness and mental fatigue
Delta, where exactly are you? The only places I can think of that are this terrible are genuine shit holes like California's Central Valley or bum fuck parts of the Midwest. The problem may entirely just be your location. Also, are you solely trying to find a relationship? If your stats are accurate, I doubt you'd have a difficult time just getting laid in most big cities. Not asking you to doxx yourself but I am curious.
07-12-2018 12:23 PM
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questor70 Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Feelings of hopelessness and mental fatigue
(07-11-2018 10:01 PM)Delta Wrote:  Girls absolutely refuse to try.
Almost every interaction with single women feels like their mind is devoted 100% to evaluation and 0% to making a good impression themselves. It's like they're setting up a mental obstacle course for men to navigate- "Okay I'll make sure I give him absolutely nothing to work with and see if he can still manage to entertain me. If not, I have a hundred other guys willing to give it a shot." Not verbalized that way of course, but that's precisely what it feels like.

This is so on-point. No way to say it better.

Women don't realize that by not putting in any effort, by default it means the only thing men will use to determine whether to jump through hoops is their looks, hence they will mostly get pursued by pump-n-dumpers.
07-12-2018 01:55 PM
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Delta Online
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Post: #39
RE: Feelings of hopelessness and mental fatigue
^Yeah it's truly amazing how many girls who have nothing to offer in the personality department complain that men don't like them for their personality. Little do they realize, at least on a conscious level, that men's fixation on looks and sex appeal is the only thing that gives them any value whatsoever. If they got their wish and men started evaluating women on personality, at least 80% of women would never again in their life have a man take interest in them.

For me, it's gotten so bad that there's now no activity I dread more than going on a first date. Things I'm much happier doing include going to work, sitting home doing laundry, and going to the gym. Think about that- I find repeatedly struggling to lift heavy objects much more pleasant and mentally stimulating than having a conversation with a young woman over a drink, with very rare exceptions. Most girls make me feel like I was hired to entertain them, like a clown performing at some spoiled sourpuss little kid's birthday party. That's really the closest analogy I can think of. And I was not this way to begin with. Feminists would love to chalk this up to me being a bad egg, but they can't. I used to think going on a first date was the most awesome and exciting thing ever, until the girls I was meeting gradually taught me that it's usually a terrible experience.

I know most guys on here just try to power through and get the bang, and hey, you do you, but I'm at the point where I'm strictly hunting for the exceptions to the above. I literally don't care if the girl is a perfect 10, if she refuses to put in effort, or is just boring as fuck, I'm out immediately. This leads to me going on very few dates and getting even fewer bangs, and I'm okay with that. I have better things to do than be a dancing monkey.
(This post was last modified: 07-13-2018 10:08 PM by Delta.)
07-13-2018 10:07 PM
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questor70 Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Feelings of hopelessness and mental fatigue
(07-13-2018 10:07 PM)Delta Wrote:  I know most guys on here just try to power through and get the bang, and hey, you do you, but I'm at the point where I'm strictly hunting for the exceptions to the above.

There's a regional/demographic aspect of this as well.

I live in the Boston area where "high value" women closer to my own age tend to be over-educated yuppies. Doctors, lawyers, college professors. And I just find that boring. As I go down the SMV chart it falls into more blue-collar single-moms who spend 90% of their time living vicariously through their kids, or younger still, women who have little else on their minds than desperately beating the biological clock.

There was a thread about a year ago talking about Sheryl Crow free-spirited chicks. An interesting woman is one who marches to the beat of her own drummer and isn't just following some stereotypical template.

Most people, and this goes for both genders, really do fall into these templates, and the older I get the more predictable it all feels. I know the special snowflake term is discouraged here, but true individuality is enaging to me. Otherwise I'm just there for the bang surrounded by interchangeable smalltalk.
07-14-2018 06:36 PM
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monsquid Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Feelings of hopelessness and mental fatigue
Modern living is fucking terrible in the west. The terrible cycle of social media is a vicious cycle of "am I good looking?" "what do you think?" "am I good looking?" "what do you think?""am I good looking?" "what do you think?""am I good looking?" "what do you think?""am I good looking?" "what do you think?""am I good looking?" "what do you think?"

People are more connected and more lonely than ever before. More stimulated but more bored than ever. People have others at the touch of their fingers yet can't seem to find the time to have a meaningful conversation. People spend fortunes to wall themselves off from others. The closer you live others in the densest cities like NYC, Tokyo, etc... the more isolated you feel.

It becomes emotionally tiring and psychologically forbidding to try and engage people. This is all people in general, then you add in the sexual dynamics of meeting women and relationships and it's even worse. I don't know what the solution is. In order to live you have to make money in this capitalistic world. All the money is concentrated in the cities and you have to get a job in the cities. You ahve to dress a certain way and act a certain way to get a ticket on the conveyor belt.
07-14-2018 07:04 PM
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Post: #42
RE: Feelings of hopelessness and mental fatigue
(07-11-2018 07:24 PM)chicane Wrote:  In the past I have almost always met women through various social circles, science fiction fandom, Mensa, theatre, etc. Now those have all gone down the progressive rabbit hole, I'm rather unwelcome. I've tried a number of other things, church has become horribly feminist, (Republican) politics has few single women, tech groups have few women and I focus on my workouts when at the gym.

The isolation has really been getting to me.

I really feel you on the isolation. It feels harder and harder every year to get a piece of mojo back whenever a friend leaves town, you grow apart from someone, trade out hobbies, switch gyms, etc. The overall human contact factor seems so much less "sticky" lately.

I'm seeing the same damn thing re: the absence of women, my hobbies and uses of free time seem to be more and more isolated/isolating, and I'm meeting a lot fewer women through the activities that used to have a good clip of girls.

IMO Western society is getting more and more "alone together" - people are overstimulated through social media and the fast news cycle, and at the same time view real human contact as both threatening and disposable.
(This post was last modified: 07-15-2018 07:57 PM by BadgerHut.)
07-15-2018 07:55 PM
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Post: #43
RE: Feelings of hopelessness and mental fatigue
Delta and Eugenics are 100% on point on the 11 July comments...it's a sad state of affairs these days, a major skewed market where even objectively high-quality men are getting peanuts. Sometimes I feel like I kinda got cheated and my prime of life intersected with the latest sexual marketplace apocalypse. You gotta make the best of what you can, and like Eugenics says above, not let yourself get defined by women's approval of your life.

I think that last bit is the absolute hardest part of shifting to a game-aware/RP mindset. Strategic outcome independence, living day to day with the sense that you aren't defined by rejection, goes against your core programming in such a deep way that if you don't already have it in your bones like the naturals do, it's really difficult to turn your mind around and train out that gut instinct.

It's one thing to have in-field ways of calming yourself down, moving to the next approach etc; it's quite another when you aren't getting results in the main and you're a well-above average man who in a normal circle would be a highly eligible guy.
07-15-2018 08:14 PM
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