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David Goggins: Modern Warrior
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Dulceácido Offline
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Post: #26
RE: David Goggins: Modern Warrior
(12-23-2018 07:47 PM)renotime Wrote:  Has anyone read his book yet? I'm pondering giving it a read, but hearing a guy ramble about running marathons could be pretty tedious.

Get the audiobook instead. It's done in a cool "podcast" sort of way with lots of explanatory conversations between chapters and key parts that you won't get in the paper book.

The "rambling about marathons" is not tedious at all and not really a key element of the book at all.

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12-24-2018 07:08 AM
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Post: #27
RE: David Goggins: Modern Warrior
Double post
(This post was last modified: 12-24-2018 09:58 AM by PlevenskiTarikat.)
12-24-2018 09:56 AM
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renotime Offline
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Post: #28
RE: David Goggins: Modern Warrior
(12-24-2018 06:55 AM)Dulceácido Wrote:  
(12-23-2018 11:34 PM)renotime Wrote:  
(12-23-2018 07:57 PM)Winston Wolfe Wrote:  
(12-23-2018 07:47 PM)renotime Wrote:  Has anyone read his book yet? I'm pondering giving it a read, but hearing a guy ramble about running marathons could be pretty tedious.

I've put it on my "to read" list and will start reading it soon. Will make sure to report back here

I'm curious to know about Delta selection and why he wasn't picked. My guess is that it was due to his personality.

On his first attempt he was injured in the selection course and could not continue. He was immediately invited back to try again.

After her healed up and a little while later, he went back. He was crushing the course, became lackadaisical on the final navigation course, mis-plotted his course, did not do proper, very basic, navigation SOP's because he was so far ahead of everyone (he thought), realized his mistake too late... Knowing he was going to fail the required time to arrive at his next point from his current position, he chose to cheat on the course (by using roads, strictly and specifically forbidden) and he was eliminated by the cadre.

**Had nothing to do with his personality, unless you consider it a personality flaw/problem to overestimate your abilities and make a simple mistake. They wanted him there or he would not have been invited back to try a second time.

Does he write about this in the book? I remember reading Eric Haney's book and his stories about selection blew my mind. 40 fucking mile hike in 20 hours. Haney claims he got lost and did an extra 15 and still finished first. Insane.

You want to know the only thing you can assume about a broken down old man? It's that he's a survivor.
12-24-2018 08:24 PM
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Dulceácido Offline
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Post: #29
RE: David Goggins: Modern Warrior
(12-24-2018 08:24 PM)renotime Wrote:  Does he write about this in the book? I remember reading Eric Haney's book and his stories about selection blew my mind. 40 fucking mile hike in 20 hours. Haney claims he got lost and did an extra 15 and still finished first. Insane.

Yes. There's a very lengthy and descriptive part of the book dedicated to it, broken up into two sections, as the two attempts happened years apart. He explains it clearly as I reported. He owns it. Accepts it.

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12-24-2018 10:59 PM
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RE: David Goggins: Modern Warrior
The real question (and much more interesting issue, in my opinion) is why he screened positive for DEVGRU--he was a SEAL, after all--and never got invited to its selection. That's the really interesting story. It is very rare for a SEAL to screen for DELTA. That is the more interesting and more subtle "wtf?"... He goes into that, too, but really he can only speculate. The only people that know the real answer to that are the DEVGRU operators who did not invite him to selection. Even at that level of performance, dedication, and execution, there is still a "clique" you must break into. He talks about that quite a bit, as well, with brutal honesty and concludes that he was certainly part of "the team" in SEAL Team, but he was never part of "The Brotherhood" of the SEAL Teams...

The new book really does explain several of the things that always puzzled me about his military career, since I'd heard a lot of rumors, but not knowing him personally, it was hard to say. In the military you find a lot of people that fail at certain things, then they lie about it--not only to others, but to themselves as well (it's easy to "quit" at something then blame it on an injury or outside influences, such as "struggles with family or personal lives," etc., etc. He talks about it unflinchingly and with brutal honesty) David does not seem to do this at all with this book in explaining what he thinks happened with his case and he takes a very glaring look at his behavior, in his mistakes and successes. Even in his self-assessments he is very harsh on himself and I think he is probably (at least) 95% spot-on, if not better.

...and just to reiterate, I highly suggest you get the audiobook because of the discussions between chapters and some events which offer even further in-depth analysis and details you won't get in the book.

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12-25-2018 06:50 AM
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Post: #31
RE: David Goggins: Modern Warrior
This is a book I'll listen to again, probably multiple times. I've already listened to plenty of it again already.

I should note, it's very rare for me to read/listen to books again. This is on a very short list.

Interesting enough, I only thought his Rogan interviews were so-so. I thought, this guy is an inspirational psycho who I can gleam some motivation. My coworker's husband is a fan, so my coworker asked me if I'd read it.

So I opened a free trial Audible subscription and began listening to what I thought would be a so-so book. It's excellent. His analysis of callousing your mind, and the corresponding anecdotes is fascinating.


My quick story from last night...
I'm not happy with my career right now, and I have some big stuff personally I've procrastinated taking care of, so last night I was a bit down and depressed with the dullness of normal work life starting up again after time-off holiday season. If it were 8:30p, I might have checked out for the evening (sometimes Netflix, weed, and/or booze). But, while my mind can fool me to procrastinate some things, at 6:30p last night, I somehow found awareness enough not to check out for the evening.

With David Goggins on my mind, I went for a run. I hate running. It was cold outside. And I still had work tomorrow and stuff hanging over my head. But I went and ran/walked 2.5 miles down the dirt road near my place, passing cow pastures and an old cemetery. I wouldn't say it was fun or nice. It was just working out. Running. Embracing the suffering a little.

You could say I was dealing with my anxiety (The Building Blocks of Emotions) with natural drugs. Perhaps, although not being a runner, I wouldn't say my brain is conditioned to think of running as a drug. But even if at the end of the evening I haven't done anything "productive" toward fixing my problems, I still went for a run instead of vegging out on Netflix. I've still showed my mind that it can embrace suffering, and the payoff of embracing the suffering and facing anxiety head-on (I did not want to go out and run at all) afterward was far better than doing nothing.

I don't plan on becoming a "runner", at least in the near future. And I'm glad I don't. I want running be me showing my mind I can embrace the suffering.


Edit: This stuff can easily be applied to talking to attractive women. If you embrace the suffering and train your mind, talking to a woman you're interested is less stressful.

“Until you make the unconscious conscious, it will direct your life and you will call it fate.”
(This post was last modified: 01-02-2019 01:24 PM by heavy.)
01-02-2019 01:01 PM
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quaker13 Offline
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Post: #32
RE: David Goggins: Modern Warrior
(01-02-2019 01:01 PM)heavy Wrote:  This is a book I'll listen to again, probably multiple times. I've already listened to plenty of it again already.

I should note, it's very rare for me to read/listen to books again. This is on a very short list.

Interesting enough, I only thought his Rogan interviews were so-so. I thought, this guy is an inspirational psycho who I can gleam some motivation. My coworker's husband is a fan, so my coworker asked me if I'd read it.

So I opened a free trial Audible subscription and began listening to what I thought would be a so-so book. It's excellent. His analysis of callousing your mind, and the corresponding anecdotes is fascinating.


My quick story from last night...
I'm not happy with my career right now, and I have some big stuff personally I've procrastinated taking care of, so last night I was a bit down and depressed with the dullness of normal work life starting up again after time-off holiday season. If it were 8:30p, I might have checked out for the evening (sometimes Netflix, weed, and/or booze). But, while my mind can fool me to procrastinate some things, at 6:30p last night, I somehow found awareness enough not to check out for the evening.

With David Goggins on my mind, I went for a run. I hate running. It was cold outside. And I still had work tomorrow and stuff hanging over my head. But I went and ran/walked 2.5 miles down the dirt road near my place, passing cow pastures and an old cemetery. I wouldn't say it was fun or nice. It was just working out. Running. Embracing the suffering a little.

You could say I was dealing with my anxiety (The Building Blocks of Emotions) with natural drugs. Perhaps, although not being a runner, I wouldn't say my brain is conditioned to think of running as a drug. But even if at the end of the evening I haven't done anything "productive" toward fixing my problems, I still went for a run instead of vegging out on Netflix. I've still showed my mind that it can embrace suffering, and the payoff of embracing the suffering and facing anxiety head-on (I did not want to go out and run at all) afterward was far better than doing nothing.

I don't plan on becoming a "runner", at least in the near future. And I'm glad I don't. I want running be me showing my mind I can embrace the suffering.


Edit: This stuff can easily be applied to talking to attractive women. If you embrace the suffering and train your mind, talking to a woman you're interested is less stressful.

Goggins is the motherfucking man. You have to be dead inside not to take away something from this guy's story. As he said himself, "I'm a practioner, not a theorist" with respect to callousing the mind. David has demonstrated to me I am capable of anything if I'm willing to suffer for it. I box, I have natural gifts such as speed and slickness despite looking like a small tightend at 6'3 230lbs. I fight on the amateur level but haven't done a tournament due to my bad knees. Goggins has me working toward that goal little by little. Goggins has me performing better at work. I don't always like what I do but I get paid a good salary and I have learned to take pride in the banality of things. I would love to spend a weekend with this guy.
01-02-2019 09:25 PM
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Winston Wolfe Offline
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Post: #33
RE: David Goggins: Modern Warrior
(12-23-2018 07:57 PM)Winston Wolfe Wrote:  
(12-23-2018 07:47 PM)renotime Wrote:  Has anyone read his book yet? I'm pondering giving it a read, but hearing a guy ramble about running marathons could be pretty tedious.

I've put it on my "to read" list and will start reading it soon. Will make sure to report back here

Just finished the audiobook.

TL;DR summary of the book:

Mindblown3

I would encourage anyone to read this book, or rather, listen to it. It is impossible to not learn something from this.

Goggins doesn't narrate the book himself, a different narrator does. But several times within each chapter, they pause narrating and switch to a podcast format where the narrator and Goggins discuss what has just been narrated.

It's a unique approach that I haven't been exposed to before (has it even been done before?). Some of the "podcast breaks" last up to 20 minutes, and it adds so much value that I will go as far as to say just reading the book isn't an option. Go for the audiobook.

I found the first 1 or 2 chapters to be dragging on a bit, mostly because I was eager to learn about the SEAL training and the ultra running and all the other crazy shit he did. They are necessary chapters though, as he talks about his fucked up youth which provides a very important context for the rest of the book.

I won't go into too much detail, but Goggins is remarkably honest in this book in the sense that he owns every single thing, be it positive or negative. He owns his successes and his failures and learns from both, then explains how you can do that too. It's not rocket science.

This guy has done some crazy fucking shit. And in the book he explains in great detail how his mind and body was functioning during it. Pushing it further and further to find his 100%. I've ran some marathons before and I thought I knew what suffering was. Fuck no.

His "callusing the mind" theory and "40% rule" are very interesting concepts and they certainly motivate you to push through boundaries. I'm starting to believe in the concept of becoming stronger mentally by suffering physically. But at the same time, the mindset can be applied to pretty much any area of your life and physical suffering isn't strictly required. Suffering is, though.

Some random concepts / quotes / takeaways:

I realize none of these concepts are new and most of them are cliches, but listen to the audiobook. Goggins explains them in great detail.

- The most important conversation you have in your life is the one you have with yourself. You have it every day, from when you wake up to when you go to sleep.

- The most important battle you are fighting in life is also against yourself.

- Visualize everything. Success, failure, and the steps and paths required to reach it. Then do it and own it.

- The only way to succeed is by failing over and over again. Therefore, failure does not exist.

I'll finish this post with what Goggins' idea of god is, which is explained in the book too. This isn't a quote from the book but it comes close to what he explains.

Imagine (visualize) dieing and going to heaven. You are in a waiting line with everyone else who just died and there is this figure / person / entity (god) interviewing everyone before letting them pass into heaven.

Your name gets called and its your turn. You sit down and god shows you the file he has on you.

Because god is all knowing, he knows what your true potential in life was. The file he shows you is simply a list of everything you could have been in life, should you have TRULY given it all you got and MAXIMIZED that shit.

Imagine god telling you that you could've been a SEAL, win some of the world's toughest ultras and hold the world record of most pullups within 24 hours (4030 pullups). If only you'd have lived up to your true potential.

Instead, you arrive at the gates of heaven as an obese employee of a pest control company and your life consists of killing cockroaches every day.

Would you really be entering heaven? Or would it be hell?

Do you want to be as close to god's standard as possible, or not?

I'll finish the post with this:



02-07-2019 08:24 AM
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Dulceácido Offline
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Post: #34
RE: David Goggins: Modern Warrior
(02-07-2019 08:24 AM)Winston Wolfe Wrote:  Goggins doesn't narrate the book himself, a different narrator does. But several times within each chapter, they pause narrating and switch to a podcast format where the narrator and Goggins discuss what has just been narrated.

It's a unique approach that I haven't been exposed to before (has it even been done before?). Some of the "podcast breaks" last up to 20 minutes, and it adds so much value that I will go as far as to say just reading the book isn't an option. Go for the audiobook.

Absolutely. This is what I was describing a few pages back. The back-and-forth between the narrator and Goggins is almost vital to the meaning of the message. If not "vital," it, at least, let's you get a "lot more mileage" out of it. Even if you've read the book and audiobooks are not your thing (assuming you enjoyed the book), you'll want to get the audiobook. It's not just a few extra sentences here and there. Overall, it's probably another couple hours (almost another short book) of material that's very interesting and pretty important if you are "dissecting" this book for guidance instead of reading for entertainment.

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02-08-2019 05:02 AM
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Post: #35
RE: David Goggins: Modern Warrior
Guys joined the military to fight.To be on the frontline .I did..Before the cult of SF took off.
And I'm not American so don't get your knickers in a Twist

Goggins sets off certain alarms for me.Maybe he wasn't asked to try for DEVGRU cause he wasn't into warfighting.
Every unit has an ultra fit dude that is drawn to the PT side of the job..
So they never go out field leaving their mates to carry the extra load.
Then when the unit gets back from field ,PT dude is there waiting to beast them.PT dude slept ,ate well he wasn't out field eating rations and not sleeping for days.

Goggins never talks Ops ,he talks courses..This is another type of dude that sucks up to rank, is super fit , a poster boy and gets sent on courses cause the headshed knows he will blitz the course..He will make the unit look good.
Course dude is another one that never goes out field.

So the guys who do go out field start hating cause PT guy and Course guy is not in the fight with them and has no interest in the fight..Yet PT and Course guy want to hold the field soldier to standards to prove they are better almost..This pisses guys off who are working on their bush or field craft.On their fucking Art ...of war...

I go no disrespect for the dude .I pass his motivational vids onto to my son..I love his stuff plus he does alot of charity work for veterans

But my Grunt dinosaur senses tells me Goggins was one of the 2 types if not both..which is maybe why the hate..

Take Jocko Willnik and Tim Kennedy those 2 are more my style ,bushcraft ,Ops guys..

“Man should have silver color on his head, gold in his pocket and iron in his pants”
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02-08-2019 06:18 AM
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renotime Offline
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Post: #36
RE: David Goggins: Modern Warrior
Tim Kennedy is pretty fucking obnoxious with his simple minded neocon views.

As far as the book goes I thought it was solid and I admire Goggins a great deal. I do wish that he wrote about his deployment to Afghanistan. I would have like to have read about his training in real life applications. My favorite part was his Delta Force try out and how he ran 18 fucking miles with a 60 pound pack on.

It's definitely worth a read, just to see what the human mind is capable of.

You want to know the only thing you can assume about a broken down old man? It's that he's a survivor.
02-09-2019 03:56 AM
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Dulceácido Offline
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RE: David Goggins: Modern Warrior
(02-08-2019 06:18 AM)Green-On-GO Wrote:  Guys joined the military to fight.To be on the frontline .I did..Before the cult of SF took off.
And I'm not American so don't get your knickers in a Twist

Goggins sets off certain alarms for me.Maybe he wasn't asked to try for DEVGRU cause he wasn't into warfighting.
Every unit has an ultra fit dude that is drawn to the PT side of the job..
So they never go out field leaving their mates to carry the extra load.
Then when the unit gets back from field ,PT dude is there waiting to beast them.PT dude slept ,ate well he wasn't out field eating rations and not sleeping for days.

Goggins never talks Ops ,he talks courses..This is another type of dude that sucks up to rank, is super fit , a poster boy and gets sent on courses cause the headshed knows he will blitz the course..He will make the unit look good.
Course dude is another one that never goes out field.

So the guys who do go out field start hating cause PT guy and Course guy is not in the fight with them and has no interest in the fight..Yet PT and Course guy want to hold the field soldier to standards to prove they are better almost..This pisses guys off who are working on their bush or field craft.On their fucking Art ...of war...

I go no disrespect for the dude .I pass his motivational vids onto to my son..I love his stuff plus he does alot of charity work for veterans

But my Grunt dinosaur senses tells me Goggins was one of the 2 types if not both..which is maybe why the hate..

Take Jocko Willnik and Tim Kennedy those 2 are more my style ,bushcraft ,Ops guys..

These are some wise observations which still hold very true. Appreciate your deference in regards to not being from the US, "so not talking shit," but it is totally unnecessary because you are 100% correct. Having served with many, many nations' militaries (including and, thankfully, Aussies), I can say, "Spot on, Mate." Humility recognized.

Let's talk about this phenomenon first, then I'll take a stab at answering some of the difficult questions about Goggins.

Every Team has these two characters you describe, "PT Guy" and "Course Guy." "PT Guy" can go both ways, though. There are some hard-as-nails, solid combat professionals, who are just what we referred to as "mutants," but then there are the guys you described, who are just good at PT and they fall apart in the field. By the 3rd day of eating MRE's, not hitting their "macros" or drinking their Myoplex shakes, they fucking nosedive so hard they become "combat ineffective," which means they are more of a liability on the battlefield than an asset.

I had a C.O. who once said something, to me and at the time, to be so counterintuitive, but proved to be absolutely accurate, when talking about leadership to the up and coming NCO's: "Don't be so harsh on your heavy drinkers and hard partiers because these guys are your toughest, most dependable guys when you're in the field." Sounds ridiculous, but it was a fact. Dudes who consistently showed up to work a little rough from the night before were the "hardest" in the field. They were used to feeling like shit and still getting the job done. By day 2 in the field, they were completely sober and finally got a few hours of sleep, despite being in the field, because they weren't out getting drunk and chasing pussy. As time moved on, they just got better and better. "PT Guy" and "Triathlon Guy," as I said, were not getting their usual nutrition, were suffering instead of benefitting from only getting 4 hours of sleep, and they usually started complaining--not because they were pussies, but because in spite of their best efforts to build this finely tuned machine, and in the face of being outperformed--here and now, in the field, instead of on the O-course--by guys who did exactly the opposite of take care themselves. So, there's that.

"Course Guy," is a more rare, but existent, creature brought forth to go to other services "tough" schools, just to crush them and throw dirt in the faces of inter-service rivals. And, yes, the SEALs do it on the rare occasion, such as in Goggins' case, when he went to Ranger school, but let's be clear: he WANTED to go and had requested to go several times. He wasn't sent there. Some SEALs are sent to Ranger school as a punishment for some infraction they committed at the Team... Nonetheless, you are often told, when you go to an inter-service school, you will be "Honor Man" of the class or you will not get another school for a very, very long time.. It's just a "pride" thing.

Moving on to Goggins, specifically. He did go to war. He did fight in combat. I have never heard anything bad about him in regards to his performance in the field, at all, so he's, not necessarily, "PT Guy," but more "mutant." The problem is, he had some medical issues beyond his control, cardiac problems which excluded him from combat operations, fuck, he would've been kicked out of the navy if he wasn't such a PT stud, and I'm going to say it here, because I'd say it to his face, and even he admits it: if he wasn't black. Period. He was kept in the navy because he is black. No if's, and's, or but's. He had a medically disqualifying condition, but because of his superior and stunning performance in high-profile athletic competitions and the fact that he is black, he was kept on as a recruitment tool. There are very few black SEALs. There are very few people with Goggins' abilities, although he'd have you believe "anyone can do it if you put your mind to it." And, he's absolutely right, but the incredible irony, that he does not explain so well, is: the exact ability to 'just put your mind to it' and plow through anything is what most people lack.. It's an entirely circular argument. Think about... You can do anything if you just put your mind to it, so if you just put your mind to it, you can do anything. What the fuck does that mean, right? What it means is, everyone has the ability, but only a very few rare people will find the compulsion and fortitude required to extract that ability. That is to say, yes, you can do anything. But, only if you posses whatever "it" is inside you to compel you to do so.

Kinda on a similar note, Kennedy was taken back into the folds of the SF community, for precisely the same thing as Goggins'; he's now a high-profile recruitment ploy, after having become a famous UFC star. And, good on him, for doing so because the SOF community is having a terrible time recruiting from the current population of soft ass-soy boy-Nintendo generation-lazy-fat-crybaby millennials, while the role of SOF has expanded beyond its scope of practicality.

Jocko, also similar to Goggins', has his haters in the Teams. He boasts his actions/decisions in Ramadi as successes, but let's look at the facts... He took the "special" out of being a SEAL. He made his men "conventional" instead special. A lot of people hate him for it. He suffered some terribly high casualty rates in the SEAL community. He says it was because of his environment. Okay. Some SEALs say it's because of his tactics which were solely up to him as force commander. And, then, what happened? After his staggering "success," all the west coast SEALs (Teams 1,3--Jocko--, and 5,) were unceremoniously sent packing from Iraq-- which was, originally, their fucking area of operations--and it was given entirely to the east coast SEALs whose AO's were, originally, and at the time, Europe, N. Africa, and S. America. So, you be the judge. Did he kill a fuck-ton of insurgents? Yes. Did he suffer a, previously unprecedented, number of casualties, for a SEAL Task Unit? Yes. Now ask, would another SEAL team in that same environment had killed just as many or more insurgents? Would they have done it with fewer casualties? No one will ever know, but what we do know, is not only Jocko's SEAL team, but that entire fucking warfare group--all the west coast teams were booted out of Iraq and the mission was turned over to the east coast teams. Now ask yourself, if his tactics were so successful, why did this occur?

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02-09-2019 09:00 AM
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