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Truth Tiger Offline
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Post: #226
RE: Elon Musk is falling apart
One aspect that concerns me about modern cars is the inclusion since 2006 (or possibly earlier) of the 'remote control' capability with the QRS-11 chip allowing remote control of a car (or a plane...). Several people have mysteriously died, and multiple military aircraft have gone down this year, likely via this device and related access systems. I imagine it's possible intrepid hackers (Ukraine? Russia? China?) could offer services to conduct remote hits utilizing this feature. Normies won't care though - bigger, brighter, more gadgets!

https://www.abeldanger.org/qrs-11quartz-rate-sensor/

I've kept my vehicle purchases pre-06 for that reason and will going forward. It's nearly impossible to do any work on a new car yourself. A friend's Audi doesn't even have a manual dipstick. I was insulted.

Call me paranoid, but over-reliance on more and more complex, unrepairable technology via the 'single-use' model is hurting consumer freedom and adding unnecessary waste to the planet. Everything fine and dandy until your modern vehicle decides to shit the bed and you wish you still had your college-years '99 Honda Civic.

'100% MAGA' Bill Mitchell interviews military veteran, Patriot, & Q Anon decoder Praying Medic
NeonRevolt.com - incredible research/analysis
Q drops here // Q proofs here
I fixed a leaky gut & got rid of eczema with GAPS diet, bone broth, etc., while avoiding the 12 bad foods
(This post was last modified: 09-09-2018 01:07 PM by Truth Tiger.)
09-09-2018 01:06 PM
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Post: #227
RE: Elon Musk is falling apart
(09-08-2018 04:55 AM)kazz Wrote:  
(09-08-2018 02:18 AM)Alsos Wrote:  A friend's kid is a huge admirer of Musk. Found out last weekend that I'd met the guy way back, excitedly asked me what I thought of him.

I recounted the unflattering details of our meeting (job interview: complete joke of an experience, insulting to boot, and I turned down the lowball offer). After pointing out a few other loony things that Elon has done, I said that he is a brilliant innovator but crazy, growing more crazy all the time, and like another crazy innovator (Howard Hughes) will end up fifteen years from now an unkempt recluse in a Las Vegas hotel shuffling through his private apartments with Kleenex boxes for shoes.

So, yeah, I got a good chuckle out of his antics the past couple of days, and imagining this kid's horror at Elon proving me right in real-time.

I just signed into this thread and am wondering, where is this hate coming from? seriously? Some of the comments, like the one above, lol.

Of course Elon is crazy, normal people dont do what he has. He doesnt have charisma, he cant converse with someone like Joe Rogan, he doesnt know how to entertain people, he doesnt have to.

No problem with critiquing him, or anyone, especially with recent events, but not just talking shit for the sake of it.

As indicated in the quoted comment, my opinion of Musk is based on having met and interacted with him early on. That experience vaccinated me to the cult of personality that subsequently developed around the guy. I wish his companies well and admire SpaceX's successes in particular, but that doesn't mean I have to like the guy personally much less worship him as some sort of god-like titan of industry.
09-09-2018 07:10 PM
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The Father Offline
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Post: #228
RE: Elon Musk is falling apart
(09-09-2018 07:10 PM)Alsos Wrote:  
(09-08-2018 04:55 AM)kazz Wrote:  
(09-08-2018 02:18 AM)Alsos Wrote:  A friend's kid is a huge admirer of Musk. Found out last weekend that I'd met the guy way back, excitedly asked me what I thought of him.

I recounted the unflattering details of our meeting (job interview: complete joke of an experience, insulting to boot, and I turned down the lowball offer). After pointing out a few other loony things that Elon has done, I said that he is a brilliant innovator but crazy, growing more crazy all the time, and like another crazy innovator (Howard Hughes) will end up fifteen years from now an unkempt recluse in a Las Vegas hotel shuffling through his private apartments with Kleenex boxes for shoes.

So, yeah, I got a good chuckle out of his antics the past couple of days, and imagining this kid's horror at Elon proving me right in real-time.

I just signed into this thread and am wondering, where is this hate coming from? seriously? Some of the comments, like the one above, lol.

Of course Elon is crazy, normal people dont do what he has. He doesnt have charisma, he cant converse with someone like Joe Rogan, he doesnt know how to entertain people, he doesnt have to.

No problem with critiquing him, or anyone, especially with recent events, but not just talking shit for the sake of it.

As indicated in the quoted comment, my opinion of Musk is based on having met and interacted with him early on. That experience vaccinated me to the cult of personality that subsequently developed around the guy. I wish his companies well and admire SpaceX's successes in particular, but that doesn't mean I have to like the guy personally much less worship him as some sort of god-like titan of industry.

Pretty typical. I met a famous Seattle Billionaire several times (a rather large list!) in a business capacity. Not only was the guy looney tunes, but he only hired assholes. Really young, arrogant, cocky, inexperienced assholes. That company went bankrupt, as did several others. And now I realize: He got lucky with the first one. He levered up his company and caught lightning in a bottle. But as a manager, an executive, an employer, and a human being: He was a piece of shit.

And I think Elon Musk, Steve Jobs, and a number of others fall into this bucket.
09-09-2018 07:50 PM
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Alpone Offline
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Post: #229
RE: Elon Musk is falling apart
Quote:And I think Elon Musk, Steve Jobs, and a number of others fall into this bucket.

Yep. Jobs' daughter, Lisa, just put out a book about her father. Turns out he was a sociopath at best and did crazy cruel things to her. Even on his death bed, Steve Jobs told her she smelled like a "toilet".

https://www.dailyherald.com/entlife/2018...jobs-story

Once you make your first million or 10 million, you can afford to treat everyone like shit and not worry about the consequences. It can bring out the worst in people.
09-09-2018 08:39 PM
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The Father Offline
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Post: #230
RE: Elon Musk is falling apart
(09-09-2018 08:39 PM)Alpone Wrote:  Yep. Jobs' daughter, Lisa, just put out a book about her father. Turns out he was a sociopath at best and did crazy cruel things to her. Even on his death bed, Steve Jobs told her she smelled like a "toilet".

I don't know what Steve Jobs daughter is like. But most women I know would look down at the floor, their self-confidence shattered. At times like that, don't you just wish Steve Jobs had a son...a son who with a pair of balls...a son who was a RVF member??

Because if I were his child, and he told me, sitting there on his death bed, that I smelled like a toilet...i'd probably say:

"MAYBE SO BUT I'LL LIVE LONGER THAN YOU, MUTHERF#CKER!!!"

Banana
09-09-2018 10:13 PM
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trippin_squares Offline
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Post: #231
RE: Elon Musk is falling apart
Steve Jobs Wrote:You smell like a toilet.

Famous last words from a "genius".
09-09-2018 11:08 PM
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Malone Away
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Post: #232
RE: Elon Musk is falling apart
(09-09-2018 12:22 PM)debeguiled Wrote:  i3s look cool though there is something emblematic about the modern world in the fact that when you think you are hearing engine sounds, you are listening to enginesound.mp3 over the speakers.

What? That is seriously up there with the Aztec for ugliest car ever produced.
09-10-2018 02:02 AM
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Post: #233
RE: Elon Musk is falling apart
(09-09-2018 07:50 PM)The Father Wrote:  now I realize: He got lucky with the first one.

I don't want to doxx myself but I worked for a dot com that made it big. It was unlike other dot coms in the sense that it was diversified. They threw a lot of crap against the wall until something stuck. I didn't work directly in the area of that 'something' but I was not particularly impressed with the people who ran it. There was no aura surrounding them in the hallways. They were just like any other hipster schmuck. There were also rather mundane forces that allowed for that "something" to gain marketshare (email spamming during the wild west period). That didn't change the fact that these guys wound up being dubbed geniuses by the media. The technology underpinning all of this, btw, was rickety in the extreme. The only time I worked in that department was as they were scrambling to find ways to make it scale other than by buying walls and walls of servers.

Perhaps the most famous case of being lucky was Mark Cuban. Cuban was the benefactor of the biggest and stupidest buyout in the history of dot coms. Broadcast.com was purchased by yahoo for 5.7 billion. That was many times what Google wound up paying for Youtube years later. It was a completely idiotic deal and a huge money-loser for Yahoo. However, by doing that, it hoisted Cuban up to the point where he was considered a business genius. I have not tracked his businesses since then, but the fact his claim to fame was a fluke is significant in tempering any cult of personality (reinforced by his role on Shark Tank).

More often than not, these dot com success stories result in businesses that are very short-lived as mindshare is faddish/fickle and the internet wants to be free. The only lasting success comes from the cashing out of the guys at the top. What the public deems a success and what is a truly sustainable business are two different things. That is why even Youtube is barely making money for Google and Netflix is bleeding cash by overproducing original content.

I'm not saying all tech companies are ponzi schemes per se, but rather that the layman notion of business success and actual success stories are two different things. Unfortunately, there's a very fuzzy boundary there and so some people who never deserved to be considered geniuses wind up being given a mountain of cash to play with who then go on to flush it down the toilet. The cash is, however, other people's money, so as long as these guys are still rich then people think they are captains of industry who still have the Midas Touch.
(This post was last modified: 09-10-2018 09:00 AM by questor70.)
09-10-2018 08:58 AM
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Post: #234
RE: Elon Musk is falling apart
(09-10-2018 02:02 AM)Malone Wrote:  
(09-09-2018 12:22 PM)debeguiled Wrote:  i3s look cool though there is something emblematic about the modern world in the fact that when you think you are hearing engine sounds, you are listening to enginesound.mp3 over the speakers.

What? That is seriously up there with the Aztec for ugliest car ever produced.

Young person!


[Image: image.jpg]

“That sig BTW is a very asinine anti-family anti-parent quote. You live in a country where 40% of children grow up without a biological father, yet somehow “the greatest burden a child must bear is the unlived life of its parents”? Sorry but this is fruity Boomer nonsense.”

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09-10-2018 10:23 AM
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debeguiled Offline
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Post: #235
RE: Elon Musk is falling apart
Paracelsus has a relevant books summary that addresses the issue of supposed geniuses just being lucky.

https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-43544...pid1847446

Quote:Saying someone may have succeeded solely by luck is not merely sour grapes. It's mathematically supported. Skill has a big role to play, but it is entirely possible if not probable for someone to succeed solely on luck if the conditions are right - and those conditions are nowhere near as remote as you might first think. Simplest illustration can be reasoned out by mathematics:

Take 10,000 stock traders with the same skill, or no skill. Allow that in a given year, half of them will make money and get to stay on at their firm, half of them will lose money and be fired. This is a true toss of the coin, 50/50. How many people are still at the firm after 5 years? It gets down to about 313 or so: 5,000 the first year, then 2,500, 1,250, 625, 313.

That is, about 3% of the original group of 10,000. Assuming you eliminate the skewing of "skill", pure probability says that about 3 in every 100 of a group of 10,000 people under these conditions would succeed solely because of the march of probability, as the group gets smaller.

“That sig BTW is a very asinine anti-family anti-parent quote. You live in a country where 40% of children grow up without a biological father, yet somehow “the greatest burden a child must bear is the unlived life of its parents”? Sorry but this is fruity Boomer nonsense.”

911
09-10-2018 10:26 AM
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Post: #236
RE: Elon Musk is falling apart
(09-10-2018 10:23 AM)debeguiled Wrote:  
(09-10-2018 02:02 AM)Malone Wrote:  
(09-09-2018 12:22 PM)debeguiled Wrote:  i3s look cool though there is something emblematic about the modern world in the fact that when you think you are hearing engine sounds, you are listening to enginesound.mp3 over the speakers.

What? That is seriously up there with the Aztec for ugliest car ever produced.

Young person!


[Image: image.jpg]

I always liked the looks of the Gremlin. Apparently I'm the only one. Also, I agree that the i3 is at Aztec levels of ugliness. For some reason, most car manufacturers have the idea that electric cars have to "look" electric, which means somewhere between funny looking like the Prius, to downright ugly like the i3 or the Volt. Tesla actually makes their electric cars look good.

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(This post was last modified: 09-10-2018 11:01 AM by RoastBeefCurtains4Me.)
09-10-2018 10:58 AM
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Post: #237
RE: Elon Musk is falling apart
(09-10-2018 10:23 AM)debeguiled Wrote:  
(09-10-2018 02:02 AM)Malone Wrote:  
(09-09-2018 12:22 PM)debeguiled Wrote:  i3s look cool though there is something emblematic about the modern world in the fact that when you think you are hearing engine sounds, you are listening to enginesound.mp3 over the speakers.

What? That is seriously up there with the Aztec for ugliest car ever produced.

Young person!


[Image: image.jpg]

Don't be dissing AMC. That is still a beautiful thing compared to the i3. Now take its big brother:

[Image: image.png]
09-10-2018 11:15 AM
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Post: #238
RE: Elon Musk is falling apart
(09-10-2018 11:15 AM)Malone Wrote:  
(09-10-2018 10:23 AM)debeguiled Wrote:  
(09-10-2018 02:02 AM)Malone Wrote:  
(09-09-2018 12:22 PM)debeguiled Wrote:  i3s look cool though there is something emblematic about the modern world in the fact that when you think you are hearing engine sounds, you are listening to enginesound.mp3 over the speakers.

What? That is seriously up there with the Aztec for ugliest car ever produced.

Young person!


[Image: image.jpg]

Don't be dissing AMC. That is still a beautiful thing compared to the i3. Now take its big brother:

[Image: image.png]

May your nights be filled with Pacer dreams.

[Image: 128CB5EF-8450-4F92-93F0-58AE9970C330_1.jpg]

Edit> Shit. I take it all back. Just saw a picture of an i3. I thought you were talking about the i8.

[Image: 1280px-BMW_i8_London_2014.jpg]

“That sig BTW is a very asinine anti-family anti-parent quote. You live in a country where 40% of children grow up without a biological father, yet somehow “the greatest burden a child must bear is the unlived life of its parents”? Sorry but this is fruity Boomer nonsense.”

911
(This post was last modified: 09-10-2018 11:24 AM by debeguiled.)
09-10-2018 11:20 AM
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Post: #239
RE: Elon Musk is falling apart
Uh... Yugo GVX much?

[Image: maxresdefault.jpg]

Double the fun, too, considering it was made by arguably the shittiest car manufacturer to ever exist.
(This post was last modified: 09-10-2018 11:45 AM by trippin_squares.)
09-10-2018 11:43 AM
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Post: #240
RE: Elon Musk is falling apart
From Today's Investing Daily Newsletter:

Why Tesla Needs a Recharge
By Scott Chan

Elon Musk and Tesla's (NSDQ: TSLA) troubles have continued since I discussed the unconventional CEO's controversial tweet about taking the electric car maker private. Musk has abandoned his plan after investor push-back and uncomfortable queries from the SEC. The stock price has fallen well below $300 a share.

Although some CEOs have fun afoul of regulators and Wall Street sentiment before, I don't recall seeing any other corporate chief create as much public drama as Musk has done.

In an interview with The New York Times shortly after the infamous tweet, he revealed that he made the announcement as he was going to the airport. In the interview, he broke down emotionally, citing "excruciating" stress. None of these statements made investors feel any more confident. So what's it all mean for Tesla shareholders?

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No Buy Out
Less than three weeks after the original tweet, Musk retracted his claim about Tesla going private at $420 a share. For a reason, he said that the majority of shareholders he spoke with prefer the company stay public. He nonetheless insisted that there was enough funding to take the company private. While that could be true, the whole saga just looks bad.

Apparently he was counting on a Saudi Arabian sovereign wealth fund to pony up most or all of the money. The prospect of Saudi money entering the equation raised eyebrows.

In the meantime, the company is under SEC scrutiny and investors have already filed several class action lawsuits. The SEC will probably only end up levying a fine, and the suits will probably be settled, but the whole mess doesn't help Musk's or Tesla's credibility, as this stock price chart shows:


Operationally, Tesla has recently missed another lofty goal set by Musk. He set a production goal of 6,000 Model 3 vehicles per week by late August, but according to a report by a news website dedicated to electric transportation (and also a Tesla shareholder), the company built about 4,300 Model 3s in the final week of August.

For Tesla to reach profitability by the second half of the year, it must reach production goals so that it can sell more cars. But even then, it may not be enough in the long run. According to Goldman Sachs (NYSE: GS), the company will need $10.5 billion in fresh capital through 2020 to continue operations and meet its growth targets.

Even though Musk insists Tesla doesn't need to raise more capital, the company will likely eventually need some outside help. Rumors have circulated for years that Apple (NSDQ: AAPL) may invest in Tesla or buy the company outright. Warren Buffett, now a major Apple shareholder (5%), has publicly said he thinks that's a "very poor idea."

Buffett has made a lot of money bailing out struggling companies, but he prefers companies with stable leadership, hence his opposition to the idea. Ultimately, Apple CEO Tim Cook, not Buffett, holds the power to decide, but Apple doesn't have a history of making huge acquisitions and this looks like a long shot.

The Cult of Personality

The irony is that even though Musk's maverick nature has stirred up unnecessary drama for Tesla, many loyal fans own shares because they believe in Musk's genius.

If Tesla removed him from a leadership position, many shareholders would likely jump ship. Billionaire Musk commands a cult-like following.

Without Musk's flair and charisma, all you have left is an overvalued company struggling to make money. It would likely not be good for the stock.

Musk probably won't change his ways very much. He's now involved in another ugly feud, with a cave diver, and a few days ago he smoked weed on a live interview. The company is compelled to tolerate the bad with the good. But it appears some of Musk's colleagues have had enough. Two top executives last week announced they will leave the company.

For America to be a global leader in electric vehicles, Tesla needs to play a major role. It's in our interest as Americans to see the company succeed. But the path to sustainable profitability growth appears to be a tall hill to climb without some outside help. Even after its recent sell-off, TSLA stock still looks too risky.
09-10-2018 12:15 PM
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Post: #241
RE: Elon Musk is falling apart
Look at an Aztek and look at anything midrange today - say - a Santa Fe Sport.
[Image: 38516f57535c7e9e7210a6bd2aa028ae.png]

The failings of the Aztek were that the U-body minivan underpinnings had some awkward hardpoints to work around, it debuted in high-trim GT versions that induced sticker shock for the young adult pricepoint it was supposed to hit, the wheels were too small (15") and there was an overabundance of 'rugged' cladding.

Compare the '01 to an '02-'05...
[Image: 2001-Pontiac-Aztek.jpg]
[Image: 2002-pontiac-aztek-frontside_pvazt021.jpg]

Johnson Controls designed the interior, which had washable hard-wear plastics, integrated grab handles, and a removable cooler in the center console. You could also get a customizable heads-up display, Pioneer audio w/tailgate speaker, load-leveling rear shocks with air compressor attachment, and even a camping/tent kit with an inflatable air mattress. Like a lot of General Motors products, a lot of effort and planning went into it without proper execution at debut. By the time the car is refined, it gets dumped for the next hot thing and the last year or so are usually the finest. And, frankly, it was very ahead of its time.

Interestingly, its sister proto-crossover - the Buick Rendezvous - was wildly successful. It rode the standard extended wheelbase U-van chassis, offered a third-row, and was marketed as a premium family alternative to a van or SUV. The Buick styling cues hit the awkwardness of the platform a little better, too.
(This post was last modified: 09-10-2018 01:34 PM by dicknixon72.)
09-10-2018 01:30 PM
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Post: #242
RE: Elon Musk is falling apart
Crossovers suck and that is one ugly car.
09-10-2018 02:59 PM
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Post: #243
RE: Elon Musk is falling apart
Was the Rendezvous the turning point of Buick's change in reputation as "cars for old people" ?
09-10-2018 03:52 PM
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Post: #244
RE: Elon Musk is falling apart
(09-10-2018 03:52 PM)trippin_squares Wrote:  Was the Rendezvous the turning point of Buick's change in reputation as "cars for old people" ?

It started the downward trend of the average age of the Buick buyer. Right now, its around 60-62, which is in the spectrum for premium/luxury brands (Lexus, Cadillac, Lincoln...Lincoln is still mid 60s!).

Lots of autojournos loved to pan Buick as being 'grandpa/ma cars' and stodgy, etc. but when you look at Buick, you see a lot of interesting statistics come out. Tops in mutiple initial and long-term quality owner surveys, tops in dependability, near bottom in cumulative problems reported by owners, high-ranking in brand loyalty, etc. And you see these as truly long-term trends over decades. Buick constantly scrapes within a place or two of perennial quality leader Lexus. As used car buys, there's nothing better than a Buick. Being senior-owned, they are usually low-mileage, well-cared-for, and have never been beaten or ragged on. Most high-trim LeSabre/Lucerne/LaCrosse/Park Ave models have nearly all the features of a Cadillac without the electrical problems and bespoke Cadillac maladies. I challenge anyone to find a more 'roadable' car than a 3.8l V6-powered Lucerne or Park Avenue for the almost pennies on the dollar you can pick one up for.
09-10-2018 04:02 PM
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Post: #245
RE: Elon Musk is falling apart
The only thing I learned is: Dick drives a Buick.

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09-10-2018 04:38 PM
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Post: #246
RE: Elon Musk is falling apart
(09-10-2018 03:52 PM)trippin_squares Wrote:  Was the Rendezvous the turning point of Buick's change in reputation as "cars for old people" ?

The reason GM kept Buick alive is because apparently it's a big selling brand in China.

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09-10-2018 04:42 PM
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Post: #247
RE: Elon Musk is falling apart
The Securities and Exchange Commission has filed a lawsuit against Musk for securities fraud relating to his “take Tesla private, funding secured” tweet.

The lawsuit seeks to ban Musk from serving as an officer or director of a publicly traded company. Ouch.

He’s toxic now. He’s fucked. If the Tesla board doesn’t do anything they could be subject to shareholder lawsuits. Board members actually need to carry millions in liability insurance and it can be risky business being on a board. I think it was WorldCom where the board members were sued for lack of oversight and the settlement was around $10 million ABOVE their insurance liability so the board members had to personally pay for the settlement. I would be surprised if the board doesn’t take action and remove him as an officer.

There is a legal classification for officer / named executive and just because you get “demoted” doesn’t mean you no longer have power or influence. There was even one of the key players in the Enron scandal who specifically was employed below the threshold of named officer just so he would not be subject to the proxy filings so he could engage in “transactions” without having to publicly file them.

Musk complaint-
https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2018-219

Actual filing. Bottom of page 21 shows the relief sought including the ban on employment as an officer or director-
https://www.sec.gov/litigation/complaint...18-219.pdf
09-27-2018 05:41 PM
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John Michael Kane Offline
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Post: #248
RE: Elon Musk is falling apart
Tough break for Musk. Tesla the company is very much Musk, the man. If the board votes to remove him preemptively, a lot of the wind in the sails for the cheerleaders for Tesla will vanish. Looks like a good time to short the stock.

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09-27-2018 06:10 PM
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Cobra Offline
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Post: #249
RE: Elon Musk is falling apart
(09-27-2018 05:41 PM)frozen-ace Wrote:  The Securities and Exchange Commission has filed a lawsuit against Musk for securities fraud relating to his “take Tesla private, funding secured” tweet.

The lawsuit seeks to ban Musk from serving as an officer or director of a publicly traded company. Ouch.

He’s toxic now. He’s fucked. If the Tesla board doesn’t do anything they could be subject to shareholder lawsuits. Board members actually need to carry millions in liability insurance and it can be risky business being on a board. I think it was WorldCom where the board members were sued for lack of oversight and the settlement was around $10 million ABOVE their insurance liability so the board members had to personally pay for the settlement. I would be surprised if the board doesn’t take action and remove him as an officer.

There is a legal classification for officer / named executive and just because you get “demoted” doesn’t mean you no longer have power or influence. There was even one of the key players in the Enron scandal who specifically was employed below the threshold of named officer just so he would not be subject to the proxy filings so he could engage in “transactions” without having to publicly file them.

Musk complaint-
https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2018-219

Actual filing. Bottom of page 21 shows the relief sought including the ban on employment as an officer or director-
https://www.sec.gov/litigation/complaint...18-219.pdf

He fucked up as soon as he was a dick to the analysts in the earnings call in a previous quarter. You don't fuck with the analysts. You want those guys on your fucking side as a public company. They are the ones that help with the "image" of the company and how everyone sees it. The more respectful you are, the better the narrative (even if the company is falling apart). The more of a dick you are, the more likely they won't do shit for your image (even if the company is doing well).

The SEC regulators watch the analysts, not the financials. Lots of people that work for the SEC are prior auditors. I've been an auditor. They watch market behavior and corroborate it with other indicators of value, like the commentary or lack thereof from the analysts.

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(This post was last modified: 09-27-2018 06:22 PM by Cobra.)
09-27-2018 06:18 PM
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Mr. Accuride Offline
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Post: #250
RE: Elon Musk is falling apart
Musk is going to prison. The DoJ won't be far behind the SEC suit.
09-27-2018 06:26 PM
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