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PapayaTapper Away
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Post: #251
RE: Elon Musk is falling apart
(09-27-2018 06:18 PM)Cobra Wrote:  
(09-27-2018 05:41 PM)frozen-ace Wrote:  The Securities and Exchange Commission has filed a lawsuit against Musk for securities fraud relating to his “take Tesla private, funding secured” tweet.

The lawsuit seeks to ban Musk from serving as an officer or director of a publicly traded company. Ouch.

He’s toxic now. He’s fucked. If the Tesla board doesn’t do anything they could be subject to shareholder lawsuits. Board members actually need to carry millions in liability insurance and it can be risky business being on a board. I think it was WorldCom where the board members were sued for lack of oversight and the settlement was around $10 million ABOVE their insurance liability so the board members had to personally pay for the settlement. I would be surprised if the board doesn’t take action and remove him as an officer.

There is a legal classification for officer / named executive and just because you get “demoted” doesn’t mean you no longer have power or influence. There was even one of the key players in the Enron scandal who specifically was employed below the threshold of named officer just so he would not be subject to the proxy filings so he could engage in “transactions” without having to publicly file them.

Musk complaint-
https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2018-219

Actual filing. Bottom of page 21 shows the relief sought including the ban on employment as an officer or director-
https://www.sec.gov/litigation/complaint...18-219.pdf

He fucked up as soon as he was a dick to the analysts in the earnings call in a previous quarter. You don't fuck with the analysts. You want those guys on your fucking side as a public company. They are the ones that help with the "image" of the company and how everyone sees it. The more respectful you are, the better the narrative (even if the company is falling apart). The more of a dick you are, the more likely they won't do shit for your image (even if the company is doing well). The SEC regulators watch the analysts, not the financials. Just an inside tidbit.

Youre right about needing the analysts in your corner but this appears to be more than that. His claim to have "the financing in place" to take the co private when in fact he didn't would be blatant manipulation through misrepresentation. Whoever bought stock based on that info lost money...and THAT is what pisses people off more than anything

He's gonna have to prove up that he had legitimate reason to believe he could finance it. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out as I dont think he'll go down without a fight or step away.

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09-27-2018 06:29 PM
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Post: #252
RE: Elon Musk is falling apart
The problem is for Musk is that maybe he did have a verbal agreement to take the company private, but the other party(s) backed out at the last minute. He may have spoken too early, hence why he said something that didn't come to pass. That is a material misrepresentation, and he's going to be in hot water over that statement as P.T. said above.

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09-27-2018 06:31 PM
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Ozzymandius Offline
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Post: #253
RE: Elon Musk is falling apart
The SEC thing is BS. The real reason the Powers-That-Be are going after Musk is because of his tweets a few months back, "Who do you think runs the media?"

(((Who))) indeed.

Since those tweets the MSM and other forces turned against Musk. I guess they figured he would become too dangerous.

The SEC also famously went after Mark Cuban after he decided to distribute the 9/11 truther documentary, "Loose Change"

The Deep State can essentially use any branch of the government (IRS, FBI, SEC...) to go after you if they decide you are a danger to their globo-homo-Bolshevik agenda.
(This post was last modified: 09-27-2018 06:44 PM by Ozzymandius.)
09-27-2018 06:32 PM
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Hypno Offline
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Post: #254
RE: Elon Musk is falling apart
SEC suing TSLA, seeks to ban Musk from serving as an officer or director of a public company.

#lawsuit secured.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/elon-musk-s...1538079650
09-27-2018 06:38 PM
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Post: #255
RE: Elon Musk is falling apart
(09-27-2018 06:32 PM)Ozzymandius Wrote:  The SEC thing is BS. The real reason the Powers-That-Be are going after Musk is because of his tweets a few months back, "Who do you think runs the media?"

(((Who))) indeed.

Since those tweets the MSM and other forces turned against Musk. I guess they figured he would become too dangerous.

The SEC also famously went after Mark Cuban after he decided to distribute the 9/11 truther documentary, "Loose Change"

The Deep State can essentially use any branch of the government (IRS, FBI, SEC...) to go after you if they decide you are a danger to their globo-homo-Bolshevik agenda.

The SEC thing is 100% legit. Read the law and then read his tweet. They have Musk dead to rights. Most of the securities laws were put in place in the 1930s during the Great Depression. When you take a company public it is no longer “your” company. It is owned by the public, even if you are a controlling shareholder. As such, you are subject to many laws to prevent fraud and abuse of the market. Even as a joke / jest, this was a clear misrepresentation of facts by an officer of a public company. I would expect nothing less from the SEC. As COBRA said most of those guys are former auditors themselves and they live for this stuff. This isn’t some grand conspiracy to knock off a visionary and keep the world driving 20mpg pickup trucks...this is a textbook example of STFU. Musk needs to get off Twitter and shut up. Put the phone down and shut up. When he opens his mouth he gets in trouble. He’s had 3 or 4 gaffles in a row, especially when he called that Thai cave diver a pedophile on Twitter. He’s been fighting a war with the Tesla nay-sayers and short sellers and he thought the going private tweet would impress his druggie girlfriend- it’s no coincidence he picked $420 as a price. In the SEC’s media release they state he picked $420 just for the drug reference because his girl would think it was cute.

Musk is a train wreck in slow motion. This example is going to be used in law schools, MBA classes, auditing / accounting classes, and business school classes for the next decade.

If you want to keep power, run the show, and say whatever the hell you want on Twitter-> don’t take your company public. At the same time, you won’t be as rich either because you can’t print stock options like it’s the US Treasury. You can’t have it both ways.

Or-> put in a “figurehead” officer who is the named executive and subject to the securities laws and make Musk the man behind the power. Then he won’t get caught up in this very specific section of the law. He could still get in trouble in other areas (insider trading), but if he was not a named officer his tweet would be a lot less damning.
09-27-2018 07:47 PM
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Ozzymandius Offline
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Post: #256
RE: Elon Musk is falling apart
Quote:The SEC thing is 100% legit.

I get your point. However, if it is selective prosecution then it ain't legit.

The SEC has done nothing about Twitter, Facebook, Google and other Deep State assets manipulating their share prices, obtaining clandestine government funding (In-Q-Tel) and pump and dump benefits by their CIA-run media. Not to mention all the massive insider trading that has gone on throughout the years with all the aforementioned companies and many more.

And just to remind people of one outrageous example of SEC corruption (amongst many) is how they famously refused to investigate Bernie Madoff for decades due to all the insiders who were profiting.

The entire system is corrupt beyond measure.

So when prosecution is selective, it ain't legit. The whole system is not legit.
09-27-2018 07:56 PM
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Post: #257
RE: Elon Musk is falling apart
(09-27-2018 07:56 PM)Ozzymandius Wrote:  I get your point. However, if it is selective prosecution then it ain't legit.

I don't think you do quite get the point. If Musk hadn't handed the SEC a noose, they wouldn't have been able to use it. So place blame where it belongs, first and foremost.

As for corruption, I can't tell you how many comparisons have been made between Tesla and Enron. Tesla is a one-ticket-symbol bubble and will wipe out a tremendous amount of wealth if it goes t*ts up. Musk has been given a huge amount of other-people's-money™ to play with and with that comes a huge amount of responsibility. His performance of late has been piss poor. Even if you disregard this and just look at the company's operations, the Model 3 ramp is shambolic and remains so:

1) they can't sustain 5,000 cars a week
2) the cars they do make are riddled with quality issues, with paint being the main offender
3) they can't seem to deliver the cars (#Trailergate)
4) customers are getting constant delays and cancels (#Deliverygate)
5) demand is softening, causing them to find ever more creative ways to dump excess RWD vehicles and now they are fast-tracking european sales to compensate, all with the SR vehicle nowhere in sight and the tax credits drying up.
6) the tip of the spear of competition is now just arriving on the scene (Jaguar iPace, Audi eTron, Hyundai Kona, Kia Niro)
7) executives are leaving the company at a steady clip

Need I go on? Should I attach hyperlinks to all these bulletpoints? If I did, would you bother to follow them? It's all true, believe me.

All of these are issues of Tesla's own making. So there is no justification in banging out a boilerplate conspiracy theory. Tesla is self-imploding all on its own.
(This post was last modified: 09-27-2018 08:23 PM by questor70.)
09-27-2018 08:20 PM
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spydersuit Offline
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Post: #258
RE: Elon Musk is falling apart
Do you know that they have negative interest rates in Europe ? Please tell us where you would like them to put their money. Is it any of your business where private citizens invest their money? Was his performance ever great? Investing is gambling, and this is why VCs invest in so many different companies, fully expecting to lose on most of them.
09-27-2018 08:35 PM
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Post: #259
RE: Elon Musk is falling apart
(09-27-2018 08:35 PM)spydersuit Wrote:  Do you know that they have negative interest rates in Europe ? Please tell us where you would like them to put their money. Is it any of your business where private citizens invest their money? Was his performance ever great? Investing is gambling, and this is why VCs invest in so many different companies, fully expecting to lose on most of them.

Then buy US bonds. It wouldnt matter as much if Tesla were a private company, but public companies are regulated much more harshly.
(This post was last modified: 09-27-2018 08:39 PM by Repo.)
09-27-2018 08:37 PM
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Post: #260
RE: Elon Musk is falling apart
Marc Cohodes, a famous short seller, opened a short position on TSLA in August, after Musk's tweet about going private and the subsequent emotional interview in the NY Times. In September, Cohodes posted this:

https://twitter.com/AlderLaneeggs/status...0302251009

"The Jaguar is out of the tree" is a reference to his investing philosophy that he doesn't open a position until it's clear the company is on its way down.

Since he opened the short position, Musk smoked weed on Rogan's show, and now the SEC is suing him. This is looking like perfect timing on this short so far.

Also interesting is Cohodes' criteria for some of his previous shorts. If the CEO wears a toupee, or is below average height, Cohodes is more likely to short the company. He looks for signs of personal insecurity. A CEO doesn't get much more insecure than being easily manipulated to smoke weed to look cool, or crying to the NY Times. Musk's foibles with women have also been well documented on this forum.
(This post was last modified: 09-27-2018 08:45 PM by Lampwick.)
09-27-2018 08:42 PM
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Post: #261
RE: Elon Musk is falling apart
Possible theory. . . .Musk has been intentionally tanking the stock to make it easier to secure the money needed to take the company private. I think that's really the only option to defuse this situation now, hard to see him volunatarily backing away.
09-27-2018 08:52 PM
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Post: #262
RE: Elon Musk is falling apart
Part of him not wanting to back away is hubris and the other is his performance-based compensation package. He has a lot to lose if he is demoted enough or booted completely. Note that this package was instituted right as the wheels were falling off Tesla, as it were, raising questions about the objectivity of the board.
(This post was last modified: 09-27-2018 09:00 PM by questor70.)
09-27-2018 08:59 PM
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spydersuit Offline
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Post: #263
RE: Elon Musk is falling apart
Musk is rich without Tesla. He has nothing to lose. Ever hear of paypal?
09-27-2018 10:20 PM
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Cattle Rustler Offline
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Post: #264
RE: Elon Musk is falling apart
(09-27-2018 06:18 PM)Cobra Wrote:  
(09-27-2018 05:41 PM)frozen-ace Wrote:  The Securities and Exchange Commission has filed a lawsuit against Musk for securities fraud relating to his “take Tesla private, funding secured” tweet.

The lawsuit seeks to ban Musk from serving as an officer or director of a publicly traded company. Ouch.

He’s toxic now. He’s fucked. If the Tesla board doesn’t do anything they could be subject to shareholder lawsuits. Board members actually need to carry millions in liability insurance and it can be risky business being on a board. I think it was WorldCom where the board members were sued for lack of oversight and the settlement was around $10 million ABOVE their insurance liability so the board members had to personally pay for the settlement. I would be surprised if the board doesn’t take action and remove him as an officer.

There is a legal classification for officer / named executive and just because you get “demoted” doesn’t mean you no longer have power or influence. There was even one of the key players in the Enron scandal who specifically was employed below the threshold of named officer just so he would not be subject to the proxy filings so he could engage in “transactions” without having to publicly file them.

Musk complaint-
https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2018-219

Actual filing. Bottom of page 21 shows the relief sought including the ban on employment as an officer or director-
https://www.sec.gov/litigation/complaint...18-219.pdf

He fucked up as soon as he was a dick to the analysts in the earnings call in a previous quarter. You don't fuck with the analysts. You want those guys on your fucking side as a public company. They are the ones that help with the "image" of the company and how everyone sees it. The more respectful you are, the better the narrative (even if the company is falling apart). The more of a dick you are, the more likely they won't do shit for your image (even if the company is doing well).

The SEC regulators watch the analysts, not the financials. Lots of people that work for the SEC are prior auditors. I've been an auditor. They watch market behavior and corroborate it with other indicators of value, like the commentary or lack thereof from the analysts.

Bro, if Trump had done this most people would have gone "Yay Trump, he stood up to the Cuckditors and showed them who is the boss. He doesn't need ANALysts".

Don't be a cuckditor.

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(This post was last modified: 09-27-2018 11:45 PM by Cattle Rustler.)
09-27-2018 11:44 PM
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MANic Offline
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Post: #265
RE: Elon Musk is falling apart
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-45696150

"Elon Musk must step down as Tesla chair and pay a fine after reaching a deal with US regulators over tweets he posted about taking the firm private.
It follows Thursday's decision by the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) to sue Mr Musk for alleged securities fraud.
Under the deal, Mr Musk will remain as Tesla CEO but has to step down as chairman for three years.
Both he and Tesla will also have to pay a $20m (£15m) fine."
09-30-2018 03:14 AM
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Selembao Offline
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Post: #266
RE: Elon Musk is falling apart
That deal is laughable. Elon lied to investors on a regular basis. He should rot in prison.
09-30-2018 03:18 AM
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Post: #267
RE: Elon Musk is falling apart
I've regarded Musk as an exceptional man and read extensive cover of him at Wait, but why? as well as other stuff not so long ago. I must admit I'm surprised by the most recent events.

Can it truly be the case some mere rapper-girlfriend could influence as powerful and successful a man as him or we're missing something?
09-30-2018 05:06 AM
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Post: #268
RE: Elon Musk is falling apart
(09-30-2018 05:06 AM)ksbms Wrote:  I've regarded Musk as an exceptional man and read extensive cover of him at Wait, but why? as well as other stuff not so long ago. I must admit I'm surprised by the most recent events.

Can it truly be the case some mere rapper-girlfriend could influence as powerful and successful a man as him or we're missing something?

Before dating his newest girlfriend, Elon married the same woman twice (Talulah Riley). Prior to that, he came out of a broken marriage.
I don't think that new girl, Grimes, is to blame.
09-30-2018 05:59 AM
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Post: #269
RE: Elon Musk is falling apart
(09-30-2018 05:06 AM)ksbms Wrote:  I've regarded Musk as an exceptional man and read extensive cover of him at Wait, but why? as well as other stuff not so long ago. I must admit I'm surprised by the most recent events.

Can it truly be the case some mere rapper-girlfriend could influence as powerful and successful a man as him or we're missing something?

It's easy to blame the girl but he's the one that let her in to his life. I think he is seriously starting to burn out from overworking, intense public attention, and demands of his employees. He needs as break. When you are physically, emotionally, and morally tired you make poor decisions. He should take a break for a year and lay low/recharge and then come back with a more clear vision. The public is surprisingly supportive of a "comeback" story. Look at Tiger Woods. But I don't think this is Elon's style, he will keep going until he completely falls apart or has a heart attack.
09-30-2018 08:21 AM
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Post: #270
RE: Elon Musk is falling apart
(09-27-2018 06:31 PM)John Michael Kane Wrote:  The problem is for Musk is that maybe he did have a verbal agreement to take the company private, but the other party(s) backed out at the last minute. He may have spoken too early, hence why he said something that didn't come to pass. That is a material misrepresentation, and he's going to be in hot water over that statement as P.T. said above.

Is there any evidence of this other than Musk said it happened though?
09-30-2018 09:18 AM
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Post: #271
RE: Elon Musk is falling apart
(09-30-2018 09:18 AM)Repo Wrote:  Is there any evidence of this other than Musk said it happened though?

It's water under the bridge now that Musk settled.

As far as the whole genius thing, first off, nobody is a master of all things. Everyone has weak spots, and Musk's is that he's simply not a very good manager. To a layman, him pulling 120+ hour weeks seen as good managing. It isn't unless you're an early stage startup being run out of a dorm room like the early days of Facebook. Once you're a public company with billions of dollars to play with you can delegate. I don't care how big the project is you're working on, you can delegate. And despite all his direct oversight they can't seem to learn how to paint a car properly or deliver them without them getting scratched. Shooting rockets he can do, but these mundane concerns are problems that Musk is just not good at dealing with. So he doesn't deserve the universal "genius" label. People specialize. Put people who are proven to be good in these aspects of the business in charge and leave them alone. Instead we're seeing executive exodus as they feel disenfranchised by his micromanaging and naively unrealistic goal-setting.

I'm not sure the terms of the settlement will solve any of those above systemic problems.
(This post was last modified: 09-30-2018 11:14 AM by questor70.)
09-30-2018 11:12 AM
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Post: #272
RE: Elon Musk is falling apart
Musk Wins. Again.
09-30-2018 12:11 PM
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Post: #273
RE: Elon Musk is falling apart
I'm hoping this is the right thread but it looks like Tesla is going to Marissa Meyer, I mean Elizabeth Holmes itself.
Just appointed a new chair to the board. A woman, who's been on the board for some years, Robyn Denholm, is still a fucking wahmen and I do not see the company(car division at least) improving from where it stands now.
Empowered Wahmen to Replace Elon Musk
Or at least that's what history shows when something of stature is given to a wahmen.

I doubt it. Remember that your lower level, millenial leftist isn't good at critical thinking. They're largely like trained dogs who emote in response to programmed cues like the word "racism" and "socialism". Easy_C

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11-08-2018 11:08 AM
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Post: #274
RE: Elon Musk is falling apart
(11-08-2018 11:08 AM)estraudi Wrote:  I'm hoping this is the right thread but it looks like Tesla is going to Marissa Meyer, I mean Elizabeth Holmes itself.
Just appointed a new chair to the board. A woman, who's been on the board for some years, Robyn Denholm, is still a fucking wahmen and I do not see the company(car division at least) improving from where it stands now.
Empowered Wahmen to Replace Elon Musk
Or at least that's what history shows when something of stature is given to a wahmen.

With that face of hers she should pick up bass and try to put Motörhead back together again.
11-08-2018 11:46 AM
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Post: #275
RE: Elon Musk is falling apart
Elon gets it. Zeroeth Law.

You don't get there till you get there
11-08-2018 12:42 PM
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