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'Free Speech' Isn't Working
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Andy_B Offline
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Post: #1
'Free Speech' Isn't Working
Outrage mobs and hostile campaigning is just too powerful. Read any book on stragegy or warfare. A strong offense always wins; defense without offense eventually turns into a retreat, and when you're on the retreat, with your back facing the enemy, you're easier to kill.

I view the 'free speech' stance as basically the culture war equivalent of playing defense: insisting that the bad guys on the other side leave you alone without ever hitting back. While we might not like it, and it does involve abandoning principle, I think we need to start mass reporting the left for every little thing they say that's "wrong," just as they are doing to us. I hope Roosh gets his books back and I hope free speech makes a comeback, but in this era where mass censorship campaigns are a thing, I don't see any alternative to fighting dirty.
09-11-2018 03:09 PM
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RE: 'Free Speech' Isn't Working
You forgot that most people actually have jobs, family, a life, or other things they can do with their time. Unlike the outrage mind online
09-11-2018 04:20 PM
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Simeon_Strangelight Offline
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Post: #3
RE: 'Free Speech' Isn't Working
At this point the numbers are too low to do anything with real protests.

And even later - any change would probably involve weapons. They are not going to relent - it's the beginning of the clamping down on wrong thinkers.
09-11-2018 06:10 PM
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Disco_Volante Offline
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RE: 'Free Speech' Isn't Working
This is happening with a "conservative" Republican majority and a Republican president. That should give you some idea of how bad this will get once democrats get the majority 2 or 6 years from now. It's way beyond voting our way out of this. They don't even care to hide their bullshit anymore because they know they control everything financially and demographically, probably just one more amnesty to make it official.
(This post was last modified: 09-11-2018 06:43 PM by Disco_Volante.)
09-11-2018 06:42 PM
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RE: 'Free Speech' Isn't Working
(09-11-2018 06:42 PM)Disco_Volante Wrote:  This is happening with a "conservative" Republican majority and a Republican president. That should give you some idea of how bad this will get once democrats get the majority 2 or 6 years from now. It's way beyond voting our way out of this. They don't even care to hide their bullshit anymore because they know they control everything financially and demographically, probably just one more amnesty to make it official.

With how well Trump is generally doing it's easy to forget that there's probably 10-20 (20 is very optimistic) patriots total in the house and senate.
09-11-2018 06:50 PM
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yankeetravels Offline
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Post: #6
RE: 'Free Speech' Isn't Working
Trump will get re-elected. I think we know the president is mostly a pawn hiding the real powers at bay, but I will admit the Trump influence has been a double edge sword. Good in that it's probably prevented this from going full force, but bad in that his image has been big ammo to divide the masses and really push a "fight against hate speech" agenda. Trump has been the easiest way to pull that off, but at the same time has given the US results while not backing down from every conservative principle.

I disagree with OP about fighting offensively though. That will accelerate the 1984 process if we give into their frame of reporting and banning anything we don't like. No, we need to be stronger, even if we have everything going against us. If our stance is free speech and having the right to voice opinions that don't provoke violence or break any laws, than we need to stick to that.

I'd take the Martin Luther King approach on this. Don't fight your enemy with violence and aggression, reason your enemy with rationality. We are starting to see it now with unlikely allies coming to Roosh's side with the banning of his books by Amazon. I've seen women and left men even agree that this is going too far despite others rationalizing it.

I think this will get worse before it gets better, but I am at least optimistic that this won't last forever. The world is like a pendulum. Sometimes it swings one way, but it always eventually swings back. The real problem is we don't know when the bottom is going to be.

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09-11-2018 07:11 PM
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Bill Brasky Offline
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Post: #7
RE: 'Free Speech' Isn't Working
(09-11-2018 03:09 PM)Andy_B Wrote:  Outrage mobs and hostile campaigning is just too powerful. Read any book on stragegy or warfare. A strong offense always wins; defense without offense eventually turns into a retreat, and when you're on the retreat, with your back facing the enemy, you're easier to kill.

I view the 'free speech' stance as basically the culture war equivalent of playing defense: insisting that the bad guys on the other side leave you alone without ever hitting back. While we might not like it, and it does involve abandoning principle, I think we need to start mass reporting the left for every little thing they say that's "wrong," just as they are doing to us. I hope Roosh gets his books back and I hope free speech makes a comeback, but in this era where mass censorship campaigns are a thing, I don't see any alternative to fighting dirty.

Free speech is non existent. Never has been and never will be. It will always be controlled by someone or group. It might as well be your team.

I agree with Vox that we need to bring back blasphemy laws and impose them harshly.
09-11-2018 07:31 PM
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godfather dust Online
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Post: #8
RE: 'Free Speech' Isn't Working
(09-11-2018 07:31 PM)Bill Brasky Wrote:  
(09-11-2018 03:09 PM)Andy_B Wrote:  Outrage mobs and hostile campaigning is just too powerful. Read any book on stragegy or warfare. A strong offense always wins; defense without offense eventually turns into a retreat, and when you're on the retreat, with your back facing the enemy, you're easier to kill.

I view the 'free speech' stance as basically the culture war equivalent of playing defense: insisting that the bad guys on the other side leave you alone without ever hitting back. While we might not like it, and it does involve abandoning principle, I think we need to start mass reporting the left for every little thing they say that's "wrong," just as they are doing to us. I hope Roosh gets his books back and I hope free speech makes a comeback, but in this era where mass censorship campaigns are a thing, I don't see any alternative to fighting dirty.

Free speech is non existent. Never has been and never will be. It will always be controlled by someone or group. It might as well be your team.

I agree with Vox that we need to bring back blasphemy laws and impose them harshly.

If you made me dictator I would impose a theocracy. I have no realistic way to achieve this however.

How does Vox propose we bring back blasphemy laws (which I would approve 100% but only for anti-Christian speech?)
09-11-2018 07:34 PM
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Bill Brasky Offline
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Post: #9
RE: 'Free Speech' Isn't Working
(09-11-2018 07:34 PM)godfather dust Wrote:  
(09-11-2018 07:31 PM)Bill Brasky Wrote:  
(09-11-2018 03:09 PM)Andy_B Wrote:  Outrage mobs and hostile campaigning is just too powerful. Read any book on stragegy or warfare. A strong offense always wins; defense without offense eventually turns into a retreat, and when you're on the retreat, with your back facing the enemy, you're easier to kill.

I view the 'free speech' stance as basically the culture war equivalent of playing defense: insisting that the bad guys on the other side leave you alone without ever hitting back. While we might not like it, and it does involve abandoning principle, I think we need to start mass reporting the left for every little thing they say that's "wrong," just as they are doing to us. I hope Roosh gets his books back and I hope free speech makes a comeback, but in this era where mass censorship campaigns are a thing, I don't see any alternative to fighting dirty.

Free speech is non existent. Never has been and never will be. It will always be controlled by someone or group. It might as well be your team.

I agree with Vox that we need to bring back blasphemy laws and impose them harshly.

If you made me dictator I would impose a theocracy. I have no realistic way to achieve this however.

How does Vox propose we bring back blasphemy laws (which I would approve 100% but only for anti-Christian speech?)

He never lays out any plans on anything. He doesn’t give advice and he has his personal reasons for having left the country.

His thesis is that Western Civilization IS Christianity. I would assume that if Christianity were to make a comeback or revival and impose itself in a forceful way, much like we see Islam doing, then it would inevitably follow that Blasphemy laws would be imposed.

Again, he never lays out roadmaps of any kind as he is simply an observer.
09-11-2018 08:10 PM
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CynicalContrarian Offline
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Post: #10
RE: 'Free Speech' Isn't Working
No one ever said the pursuit of free-speech did not require steadfast courage...

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09-11-2018 08:15 PM
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