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I'm Not Convinced on Hypergamy
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Post: #51
RE: I'm Not Convinced on Hypergamy
Now I’m waiting for hank to show up..
09-22-2018 02:32 PM
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Feldeinsamkeit Offline
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Post: #52
RE: I'm Not Convinced on Hypergamy
(09-22-2018 10:06 AM)Mizo1234 Wrote:  
(09-22-2018 05:35 AM)Feldeinsamkeit Wrote:  
(09-20-2018 11:03 AM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  
(09-20-2018 10:53 AM)Mizo1234 Wrote:  I am not arguing against Hypergamy . But sometimes, you met “ taken” woman and you know she really likes you . But still can’t get her to cheat or to break up with her boyfriend
whats the explanation for this ?

Youre not Ryan Gosling

I encounter this problem frequently when out daygaming in Hamburg. Part of the explanation, other than the elephant in the room: you're not Ryan Gosling, is that women who you think really dig you actually are more attracted to the attention you're giving them. Women, of course, have always loved attention from men, especially when they're in a situation where they can't act on their impulses, i.e. they are taken or the guy is or both.

On the subject of validation seeking: I've noticed a very sharp uptick in the number of women who are looking around in public to see which guys are checking them out. When I first noticed this in the UK in 2017, I assumed it was a local phenomenon of slutty northern women or, at most, specific to the Anglosphere. But since coming back to Germany this year, I notice this phenomenon in full swing here, too. Don't forget: The bar for a woman to be interested in you because of the attention hit you provide is much lower than the bar to bang her, especially if she is already getting dicked by another dude on the regular.

While I agree with the attention part, I think most of us with time and experience can differentiate between attention seeking behaviors and real interest . I am not talking here about women who are looking to see who is checking them out. I am talking about women who :

1-Bite their lips when they saw me
2-check me out while I am not looking
3- play with her hair or earlobe while talking to me
4- their faces smile when I talk to them


Honestly man, I had enough share of attention whores in my past, I only go for the super sure signs.
Maybe bad game on my part .

The point I am trying to make is while hypergamy subconsciously controls the desire to date up or fuck up, it is still somehow conscious decision to act on this desire ( fear of consequence ).

Also, the definition of the best option for women change with her priorities . If she wants to marry, she will select the best options for the marriage . If she wants to fuck, she will select the best options to fuck. Those two best options could be two different type of guys.

But I've experienced more cases than I can count in which, during a direct daygame opener, the woman has demonstrated all of those signs and more, such as cutting the space between us, not letting go of my hand during the handshake, the sticky and sparkly eye magic and so on, yet when push came to shove, she just wasn't bothered about meeting up with me after she had milked the interaction for all of its validation value. It's not to say that I haven't gotten dates when those signs are present - it's definitely more likely, it's just that it's nowhere near as reliable an indicator for me as you claim it to be. I like PapayaTapper's simile drawn from the financial markets: Whether the price of, say, a currency or a stock increases or decreases, depends upon whether it is greed or fear which predominates between the participating investors at the time the trading takes place. It is precisely the same with women: In order to get a girl to cheat on her long-term boyfriend from a cold approach on the street, you either need to be an exceptionally alluring proposition - think millionaire or celebrity - or a physically incredibly alluring specimen, in order to outweigh a modern woman's propensity to be satisfied merely with the validation that she gets and continue on her way. Either that or I'm just too fucking old and ugly or have been running anti-game of late.

In short, I'm sceptical about the premise of your argument: Namely, that there a clear dividing line between a woman who's only interested in interacting with you for the validation and a woman who is "genuinely" interested in you, in a sexual way. I think you could previously draw such a distinction but these days the high that women get from the validation they receive delivers a bigger hit than does the sex. Furthermore, I feel that the attention crack pipe that is social media is leading women to search for bigger highs in real life encounters with men, in which a vast army of thirsty simps gather, ready at a moment's notice to satisfy an increasingly rapacious appetite for attention that modern women crave, motivated by nothing but the faintest and imagined whiff of vagina. Thirst traps will surely become an increasing phenomenon in the next few years, enabled by an insanely distorted dating market in which only an ever decreasing number of men will enjoy access to attractive women.
(This post was last modified: 09-22-2018 03:19 PM by Feldeinsamkeit.)
09-22-2018 03:12 PM
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Mizo1234 Offline
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Post: #53
RE: I'm Not Convinced on Hypergamy
(09-22-2018 03:12 PM)Feldeinsamkeit Wrote:  
(09-22-2018 10:06 AM)Mizo1234 Wrote:  
(09-22-2018 05:35 AM)Feldeinsamkeit Wrote:  
(09-20-2018 11:03 AM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  
(09-20-2018 10:53 AM)Mizo1234 Wrote:  I am not arguing against Hypergamy . But sometimes, you met “ taken” woman and you know she really likes you . But still can’t get her to cheat or to break up with her boyfriend
whats the explanation for this ?

Youre not Ryan Gosling

I encounter this problem frequently when out daygaming in Hamburg. Part of the explanation, other than the elephant in the room: you're not Ryan Gosling, is that women who you think really dig you actually are more attracted to the attention you're giving them. Women, of course, have always loved attention from men, especially when they're in a situation where they can't act on their impulses, i.e. they are taken or the guy is or both.

On the subject of validation seeking: I've noticed a very sharp uptick in the number of women who are looking around in public to see which guys are checking them out. When I first noticed this in the UK in 2017, I assumed it was a local phenomenon of slutty northern women or, at most, specific to the Anglosphere. But since coming back to Germany this year, I notice this phenomenon in full swing here, too. Don't forget: The bar for a woman to be interested in you because of the attention hit you provide is much lower than the bar to bang her, especially if she is already getting dicked by another dude on the regular.

While I agree with the attention part, I think most of us with time and experience can differentiate between attention seeking behaviors and real interest . I am not talking here about women who are looking to see who is checking them out. I am talking about women who :

1-Bite their lips when they saw me
2-check me out while I am not looking
3- play with her hair or earlobe while talking to me
4- their faces smile when I talk to them


Honestly man, I had enough share of attention whores in my past, I only go for the super sure signs.
Maybe bad game on my part .

The point I am trying to make is while hypergamy subconsciously controls the desire to date up or fuck up, it is still somehow conscious decision to act on this desire ( fear of consequence ).

Also, the definition of the best option for women change with her priorities . If she wants to marry, she will select the best options for the marriage . If she wants to fuck, she will select the best options to fuck. Those two best options could be two different type of guys.

But I've experienced more cases than I can count in which, during a direct daygame opener, the woman has demonstrated all of those signs and more, such as cutting the space between us, not letting go of my hand during the handshake, the sticky and sparkly eye magic and so on, yet when push came to shove, she just wasn't bothered about meeting up with me after she had milked the interaction for all of its validation value. It's not to say that I haven't gotten dates when those signs are present - it's definitely more likely, it's just that it's nowhere near as reliable an indicator for me as you claim it to be. I like PapayaTapper's simile drawn from the financial markets: Whether the price of, say, a currency or a stock increases or decreases, depends upon whether it is greed or fear which predominates between the participating investors at the time the trading takes place. It is precisely the same with women: In order to get a girl to cheat on her long-term boyfriend from a cold approach on the street, you either need to be an exceptionally alluring proposition - think millionaire or celebrity - or a physically incredibly alluring specimen, in order to outweigh a modern woman's propensity to be satisfied merely with the validation that she gets and continue on her way. Either that or I'm just too fucking old and ugly or have been running anti-game of late.

In short, I'm sceptical about the premise of your argument: Namely, that there a clear dividing line between a woman who's only interested in interacting with you for the validation and a woman who is "genuinely" interested in you, in a sexual way. I think you could previously draw such a distinction but these days the high that women get from the validation they receive delivers a bigger hit than does the sex. Furthermore, I feel that the attention crack pipe that is social media is leading women to search for bigger highs in real life encounters with men, in which a vast army of thirsty simps gather, ready at a moment's notice to satisfy an increasingly rapacious appetite for attention that modern women crave, motivated by nothing but the faintest and imagined whiff of vagina. Thirst traps will surely become an increasing phenomenon in the next few years, enabled by an insanely distorted dating market in which only an ever decreasing number of men will enjoy access to attractive women.

Very insightful analysis , but I still disagree on some points. I just don't to hijack the thread. We can have this discussion in private or on other thread
09-22-2018 08:48 PM
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JakckieDanger437 Offline
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Post: #54
RE: I'm Not Convinced on Hypergamy
What do you think of this post on hypergamy by Jon Anthony: https://www.masculinedevelopment.com/fem...advantage/

He used to write on Return of Kings before it went into a hiatus, and I agree with a lot of what he says here.

The main points that I took away are that if she believes you have the POTENTIAL to be in the top 10% of men, she will eagerly date you, even if you aren't there yet. There's something about a woman's natural supportive instincts that make her want to find a budding alpha and help him be what he could.

I think that hypergamy has naturally left so many men without a partner, which is extremely destabilizing to the whole of society... but then again, I guess if you're willing to put in the work to be in the top 10% of men financially, you get all the benefit of so many girls trying to fuck you nowadays. All you need is a little bit of game to make it happen.
(This post was last modified: 01-31-2019 11:34 PM by JakckieDanger437.)
01-31-2019 11:33 PM
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Post: #55
RE: I'm Not Convinced on Hypergamy
The craziest thing is that if women are hypergamous (breeding across and up) then the theory goes that men must be hypogamous (breeding across and down). Isnt that tragic? That most men breed down?
02-02-2019 04:06 AM
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Post: #56
RE: I'm Not Convinced on Hypergamy
(09-20-2018 05:28 AM)flyinghorse Wrote:  I've just seen far too many exceptions to the rule; myself included.

Using myself as an example:

-30 something male
- 5'11
-185lbs at 15% body fat (well above average, but no fitness model)
-Slightly above mean average income (working in education)
-Slightly above average IQ
-Maybe a 6 out of 10 in the face.
-Decent conversational skills but i'm not the soul of a party
-Not well read in the 'game' and all this frame stuff tends to bore me so I only have a lose knowledge of it.

Basically I'm just a little above average at everything.

Anyway, the theory goes women only date across and up: and yet I've found myself with 7s and 8s (in terms of looks) over the years. I've dated wealthy women (they never pay more than half though, the fuckers) who earn twice as much as me. I've dated lecturers, bankers, and published authors. I've dated up and down, across, and everything in between. I've dated some of these women for weeks and one or two of them have lasted years.

All of this makes me question this whole notion of hypergamy. How can hypergamy exist when it is I who tends to date up?

I also disagree with this idea that men are hypogamous (people who date across and down): I've seen far too many men with women who 'out of their league'.

So dare I say it? Not All Women Are Like That.

And do not get me wrong, this is not white knighting, this is not some noble attempt to defend the nature of women to a group of gentleman on an internet forum. This is just a mere foray into theoretical discussion on the dating habits and preferences of both men and women. A discussion that which within this community had become a dogma, and not one for which is questioned and built upon.

I think I know what you mean, throughout my cold approaching every now and then I seem to meet some women who just seem "unplugged".

Doesn't matter what age they are (quite a few of them are on the younger end of the scale) it just seems that there are a few who are non conformist and really chill, not the "herd mentality" that most women have.

I really do hope it's true.
02-14-2019 03:02 PM
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RatInTheWoods Offline
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Post: #57
RE: I'm Not Convinced on Hypergamy
(02-02-2019 04:06 AM)flyinghorse Wrote:  The craziest thing is that if women are hypergamous (breeding across and up) then the theory goes that men must be hypogamous (breeding across and down). Isnt that tragic? That most men breed down?

Male sexual strategy is spray and pray.

Blast into anything they can. Low investment for males.

Sperm is cheap, eggs are expensive.
02-14-2019 03:17 PM
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PapayaTapper Away
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Post: #58
RE: I'm Not Convinced on Hypergamy
(01-31-2019 11:33 PM)JakckieDanger437 Wrote:  What do you think of this post on hypergamy by Jon Anthony: https://www.masculinedevelopment.com/fem...advantage/

He used to write on Return of Kings before it went into a hiatus, and I agree with a lot of what he says here.

The main points that I took away are that if she believes you have the POTENTIAL to be in the top 10% of men, she will eagerly date you, even if you aren't there yet. There's something about a woman's natural supportive instincts that make her want to find a budding alpha and help him be what he could.

I think that hypergamy has naturally left so many men without a partner, which is extremely destabilizing to the whole of society... but then again, I guess if you're willing to put in the work to be in the top 10% of men financially, you get all the benefit of so many girls trying to fuck you nowadays. All you need is a little bit of game to make it happen.

^This

Too much analysis of SMV from "your" POV going on in this thread. Its not about your "number" value vs hers. Its about her perception of your value...and thats entirely based on how you make her feel

Even having money is NOT a cure all...of course it can help. The closest thing to a magic bullet is fame (hence my Ryan Gosling reference above)

If "abracabra" gets her panties wet for you then it is a magic phrase. If not then its just some stupid shit to say.

This what PUA guru hucksters prey on and what game denialists dont "get".

Her responses and logical reality are often diametric.

_______________________________________
- Does She Have The "Happy Gene" ?
-Inversion Therapy
-Let's lead by example


"Leap, and the net will appear". John Burroughs

"The big question is whether you are going to be able to say a hearty yes to your adventure."
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(This post was last modified: 02-14-2019 03:38 PM by PapayaTapper.)
02-14-2019 03:37 PM
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Post: #59
RE: I'm Not Convinced on Hypergamy
(02-14-2019 03:37 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  If "abracabra" gets her panties wet for you then it is a magic phrase. If not then its just some stupid shit to say.

This what PUA guru hucksters prey on and what game denialists dont "get".

Clap2

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Get your passport ready!
02-14-2019 10:20 PM
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flyinghorse Offline
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Post: #60
RE: I'm Not Convinced on Hypergamy
I came to the conclusion to stop analyzing it and theorizing on why i'm successful with some women when I don't feel high SMV. I should just enjoy it and not think about it.

The way I feel now is to just be the best I can be based on my own standards and not worry about how its perceived by others.
02-15-2019 05:36 AM
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