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People Who Argue Foetuses Can Be "Killed" By 3rd Parties (Assaults/Car Crashes etc.)
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david.garrett84 Offline
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People Who Argue Foetuses Can Be "Killed" By 3rd Parties (Assaults/Car Crashes etc.)
The couple affected by this tragedy I quote from below have shown no signs of such hypocrisy (their cultural background would suggest the opposite), but I know a large number of people, particularly women, who treat abortion like a rite of passage but will mourn something like a friend's miscarriage as the death of an actual "child" (above and beyond the unmet parenting/family expectations of the pregnant woman involved).

In short, an unborn child is a child when someone else does it, but a foetus when the pregnant woman goes to the abortion clinic.

I get the feeling that most of the same women who would happily terminate a pregnancy if it suited them would wail hysterically about their "murdered" child if they'd suffered a miscarriage following a moderate to severe car crash the week before they might have gone to the abortion clinic.

[Image: 50CB8D3500000578-6221275-image-a-1_1538203805807.jpg]

Some examples of the otherwise pro-feminist, pro-choice media deciding that these foetuses were effectively people who could die:

Orchard Hills crash: Two women, unborn baby die on Northern Rd [original article title, later changed]
https://web.archive.org/web/201810010738...4b70618b0a

Two women and unborn twins killed in horror western Sydney crash
https://web.archive.org/save/https://www...-car-crash

Even The Sydney Morning Herald is on this:

Pregnant woman and unborn twins die [title of video in the link]
https://web.archive.org/web/201810010735...506u0.html

To my knowledge, foetus destruction is dealt with as a form of grievous bodily harm (GBH) in jurisdictions like New South Wales, where Sydney is located.

This family is obviously ethnic and from Western Sydney, where the largest number of anti-gay marriage votes were recorded during last year's postal survey. The area is typically on the left economically and in the center/to the right socially, which results in most people voting for the economically and socially leftwing Labor Party (but voters often dissent regarding Labor's open doors immigration and anti-family platforms). The community responses I have seen online in news articles tend to reflect a "middle" Australia ground. Some feminists from parties like the Greens are fairly muted in their responses to these issues, recognizing that parties on the right can smash them over any perceiced hypocrisy. Fred Nile, a well-known Christian Democrat and ardent anti-abortion figure in New South Wales' Legislative Council (Senate), has pointed out this problem before.

Quote:Family friends of a pregnant woman and teenage relative who were killed in a horrific car crash are calling for the accused to be charged with the death of the woman's unborn twin boys.

Pregnant newlywed Katherine Hoang, 23, was killed in the horror smash in Sydney's west on Friday night, along with her unborn twins and her 17-year-old sister-in-law.

Her husband, Bronko Hoang, is fighting for life in hospital, unaware his heavily pregnant wife and their sons are dead.

Father-of-four Richard Moananu, 29, faced 10 charges in a hospital bed court hearing on Sunday, though additional charges could be laid.

Moananu, who also works as a builder, has been charged with 10 offences including negligence, unlicensed driving, two counts of manslaughter and aggravated dangerous driving occasioning grievous bodily harm.

Lucy La, a family friend of the victim's, said many have voiced their devastation that the manslaughter charges do not cover the deaths of the unborn twins, news.com.au reported.

'We are upset as these babies were already part of the family and they did die in the accident,' she said.

'Unfortunately only two out of four lives were recognised,' she said.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article...twins.html

As I said, I see no evidence of the victims' family espousing contradictory positions on abortion versus other forms of foetus destruction.

The issue is complicated because, irrespective of many braindead feminists championing abortion without ever talking about how late abortions should be, late-term abortions are illegal in New South Wales, like many other jurisdictions. Depending on the stage of the twins' development, the other driver could indeed be charged over the twins' "deaths".

In an ideal world, the alleged lawbreaker would indeed go to jail for manslaughter, but I am not going to back it here, precisely because the dead pregnant woman could have legally terminated her pregnancy weeks or days before.

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(This post was last modified: 10-01-2018 03:05 AM by david.garrett84.)
10-01-2018 02:49 AM
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hv123 Offline
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RE: People Who Argue Foetuses Can Be "Killed" By 3rd Parties (Assaults/Car Crashes etc.)
People are selfish hypocrites.

This is hardly a new concept. It's always been a contradiction at the core of the "pro" choice movement. The law isn't going to be changed because it would make abortion possibly illegal or at the very least cast it in a more negative light (killing defenseless unborn babies being ok generally!)
10-01-2018 03:36 AM
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RE: People Who Argue Foetuses Can Be "Killed" By 3rd Parties (Assaults/Car Crashes etc.)
Pro-choice: someone who cares so much about unwanted children they're prepared to murder them before they're wanted at all.

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10-01-2018 09:49 AM
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RE: People Who Argue Foetuses Can Be "Killed" By 3rd Parties (Assaults/Car C...
(10-01-2018 02:49 AM)david.garrett84 Wrote:  The couple affected by this tragedy I quote from below have shown no signs of such hypocrisy (their cultural background would suggest the opposite), but I know a large number of people, particularly women, who treat abortion like a rite of passage but will mourn something like a friend's miscarriage as the death of an actual "child" (above and beyond the unmet parenting/family expectations of the pregnant woman involved).

In short, an unborn child is a child when someone else does it, but a foetus when the pregnant woman goes to the abortion clinic.

I get the feeling that most of the same women who would happily terminate a pregnancy if it suited them would wail hysterically about their "murdered" child if they'd suffered a miscarriage following a moderate to severe car crash the week before they might have gone to the abortion clinic.

I say this a lot but I think this may represent peak female solipsism/hamsterism as well as men's willingness to accept these things, i.e. gynocentrism. We are literally willing to redefine life itself based on a woman's preference in the current moment. That's all that matters to us.
10-01-2018 12:12 PM
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Bacchus Offline
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RE: People Who Argue Foetuses Can Be "Killed" By 3rd Parties (Assaults/Car C...
(10-01-2018 12:12 PM)Thot Leader Wrote:  
(10-01-2018 02:49 AM)david.garrett84 Wrote:  The couple affected by this tragedy I quote from below have shown no signs of such hypocrisy (their cultural background would suggest the opposite), but I know a large number of people, particularly women, who treat abortion like a rite of passage but will mourn something like a friend's miscarriage as the death of an actual "child" (above and beyond the unmet parenting/family expectations of the pregnant woman involved).

In short, an unborn child is a child when someone else does it, but a foetus when the pregnant woman goes to the abortion clinic.

I get the feeling that most of the same women who would happily terminate a pregnancy if it suited them would wail hysterically about their "murdered" child if they'd suffered a miscarriage following a moderate to severe car crash the week before they might have gone to the abortion clinic.

I say this a lot but I think this may represent peak female solipsism/hamsterism as well as men's willingness to accept these things, i.e. gynocentrism. We are literally willing to redefine life itself based on a woman's preference in the current moment. That's all that matters to us.

Schrodinger's fetus. The unborn child is simultaneously both a full human being and an object known as a fetus that can be surgically removed without incident because a woman's whims solely determine which status it has.

So you can't tell which one until the woman either carries the pregnancy to term (human), accidental death/miscarriage (human), or she terminates it (object).

Summary, you need to understand quantum mechanics in order to comprehend female logic.
10-01-2018 12:44 PM
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torridon747 Offline
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RE: People Who Argue Foetuses Can Be "Killed" By 3rd Parties (Assaults/Car Crashes etc.)
"Summary, you need to understand quantum mechanics in order to comprehend female logic"

I know you're saying this semi-tongue in cheek but there might be more true to this statement that meets the eye
10-01-2018 04:59 PM
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RE: People Who Argue Foetuses Can Be "Killed" By 3rd Parties (Assaults/Car C...
(10-01-2018 02:49 AM)david.garrett84 Wrote:  The couple affected by this tragedy I quote from below have shown no signs of such hypocrisy (their cultural background would suggest the opposite), but I know a large number of people, particularly women, who treat abortion like a rite of passage but will mourn something like a friend's miscarriage as the death of an actual "child" (above and beyond the unmet parenting/family expectations of the pregnant woman involved).

In short, an unborn child is a child when someone else does it, but a foetus when the pregnant woman goes to the abortion clinic.

I get the feeling that most of the same women who would happily terminate a pregnancy if it suited them would wail hysterically about their "murdered" child if they'd suffered a miscarriage following a moderate to severe car crash the week before they might have gone to the abortion clinic.

During the recent abortion referendum here in Ireland, I often mentioned the bolded, a life completely hinged on the whim of the mother.

An utterly pointless endeavour, we embraced the abyss and they wonder why suicides are going up, up, up for many years....my theory is we subconsciously realize we could have been seen as worthless to each other and our very existence could have been canceled out on a whim.

It shows people are completely overindulged in politics in these abortion debates, what people really need is philosophy or a philosopher.

It's hard to be in favour of something you won't even look at.

I wonder how many of the 70% that voted YES for would watch an abortion? Those who said they can't watch..... can leave the room, now everybody in the room votes YES......you just lost your referendum to have the right to abort.

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(This post was last modified: 10-01-2018 06:46 PM by Syberpunk.)
10-01-2018 06:43 PM
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RE: People Who Argue Foetuses Can Be "Killed" By 3rd Parties (Assaults/Car Crashes etc.)
There would be some dark humor and heads exploding if they said they were driving to get an abortion when the accident happened, but still want the accused to be charged with infanticide.
10-01-2018 09:23 PM
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RE: People Who Argue Foetuses Can Be "Killed" By 3rd Parties (Assaults/Car Crashes etc.)
The distinction lies in their feelz. So there is no contradiction. Come on guys..I thought this place was supposed to help you better understand women.
(This post was last modified: 10-02-2018 01:12 AM by Trumpian.)
10-02-2018 01:03 AM
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RE: People Who Argue Foetuses Can Be "Killed" By 3rd Parties (Assaults/Car Crashes etc.)
I actually know a girl who was good friends with a pregnant woman famously stabbed/ killed in NSW/ Queensland a couple of years ago.

Constantly on social media about the need for her killer-boyfriend(I think?) to see two charges of murder instead of one.

Meanwhile her and her buddies are hedonistic single mother disaster areas and between them constitute empowered small scale abortion factories.
10-02-2018 01:12 AM
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RE: People Who Argue Foetuses Can Be "Killed" By 3rd Parties (Assaults/Car Crashes etc.)
I saw this story on TV & online a few days ago and it's astounding how "pro-choice" activists can't decide the definition of a living human being. (or maybe the "pro-choice activists" don't actually care at all!)

The politicians in Australia are too busy fighting each other, which means that events like this will likely be given some token notice and probably forgotten by the next news cycle.

Those "pro-choice" movements have their own agendas and they don't care what collateral damage occurs as long as they achieve their objectives. Depending on a person's views/definitions of abortion, abortion is quietly either becoming the biggest genocide in history or the most effective contraceptive with each passing moment. Somehow, this is all hidden in plain sight.

The Research Paper Wrote:We estimated that 35 abortions (90% uncertainty interval [UI] 33 to 44) occurred annually per 1000 women aged 15–44 years worldwide in 2010–14, which was 5 points less than 40 (39–48) in 1990–94 (90% UI for decline −11 to 0).

Because of population growth, the annual number of abortions worldwide increased by 5·9 million (90% UI −1·3 to 15·4), from 50·4 million in 1990–94 (48·6 to 59·9) to 56·3 million (52·4 to 70·0) in 2010–14. In the developed world, the abortion rate declined 19 points (–26 to −14), from 46 (41 to 59) to 27 (24 to 37).

In the developing world, we found a non-significant 2 point decline (90% UI −9 to 4) in the rate from 39 (37 to 47) to 37 (34 to 46). Some 25% (90% UI 23 to 29) of pregnancies ended in abortion in 2010–14. Globally, 73% (90% UI 59 to 82) of abortions were obtained by married women in 2010–14 compared with 27% (18 to 41) obtained by unmarried women.

We did not observe an association between the abortion rates for 2010–14 and the grounds under which abortion is legally allowed.

The ride never ends! (click for full images)
[Image: giphy.gif]

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[Image: 9KMPHCs.png][Image: 599x400xAbortion-Defund-Planned-Parentho...Hs75vj.jpg][Image: 59947_524476074252903_87196135_n1.jpg]
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Picture of the man that caused the crash.

Quote:From https://web.archive.org/web/201810020740...-car-crash

Court documents allege Mr Moananu does not hold a licence, was on the wrong side of the Northern Road at the time of the collision, and was more than 45km/h above the speed limit.

http://www.police.nsw.gov.au/news/news_a...w9MQ%3D%3D
Quote:UPDATE: Man charged over fatal crash - Orchard Hills

Sunday, 30 September 2018 08:02:12 AM

A man has been charged following investigations into a fatal crash in Sydney’s west on Friday night.

About 7.40pm (Friday 28 September 2018), a Mazda 3 travelling south on the Northern Road, near Glenmore Parkway at Orchard Hills, collided with a Nissan Tiida travelling north.

The 17-year-old female driving the Nissan and her rear seat passenger, a 23-year-old woman, who was heavily pregnant, died at the scene.

The crash also claimed the life of the pregnant woman’s unborn twins.
[...]

Following inquiries, about 7pm yesterday (Saturday 29 September 2018), investigators attended Westmead Hospital, where the 29-year-old man was charged with the following offences;
  • Manslaughter (x2) [x4 if unborn children were recognised]
  • Aggravated dangerous driving occasioning grievous bodily harm
  • Aggravated dangerous driving occasioning death (x2) [x4 if unborn children were recognised]
  • Cause bodily harm by misconduct
  • Unlicensed – License expired less than 2 years
  • Negligent driving occasioning death (x2) [x4 if unborn children were recognised]
  • Negligent driving occasioning grievous bodily harm

    He was refused bail and is due to appear via bedside hearing at Parramatta Bail Court today (Sunday 30 September 2018).

I can't imagine what will happen to the man when he finds out that his wife and unborn babies are killed by an idiot.
10-02-2018 04:04 AM
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RE: People Who Argue Foetuses Can Be "Killed" By 3rd Parties (Assaults/Car Crashes etc.)
So according to the laws there, if she had chosen to abort these kids in the womb, it's okay, but if it happens not by he choice - a car accident in this case - its murder?

Sounds logical.

Tragedy all around.

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10-02-2018 03:24 PM
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RE: People Who Argue Foetuses Can Be "Killed" By 3rd Parties (Assaults/Car C...
Here come the hypocritical political lightweights!

Watch this space: it seems the "conservative" government in charge of Sydney/New South Wales may go down the road of creating a two-tiered system where, say, a car crash will attract manslaughter charges, but a woman opting for an abortion won't:

Quote:NSW Premier Gladys Berejiklian said she will consider changing the law after the driver who killed heavily pregnant Sydney woman Katherine Hoang cannot be charged with manslaughter for the death of her unborn twins.

...

Moananu [the driver]... cannot face similar charges for the deaths of Hoang's unborn twins because under NSW law the loss of a foetus following a criminal act is recognised as a “serious injury” to the mother, not a crime in itself.

...

Attempts to tackle this issue in 2014 failed because the legislation, known as "Zoe's Law", introduced by Christian Democrats' Fred Nile, did not ensure women who had abortions would not face criminal penalties.

The article comes from The Daily Telegraph, which is behind a paywall.

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(This post was last modified: 10-12-2018 03:25 PM by david.garrett84.)
10-12-2018 03:23 PM
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RE: People Who Argue Foetuses Can Be "Killed" By 3rd Parties (Assaults/Car Crashes etc.)
The mainstream and the femimorons are of course inconsistent in their narrative.

But I will give you the insight of a quite right-leaning pro-choice guy here.

As I see it - every fetus could become a fully grown baby and the difference here is mainly one of attitude.

Any pregnancy termination - even the one coming from the rape of a retarded gang - should be a source of mourning not celebration and reason to carry around proud t-shirts. It should be an act done in the most dire circumstances, after long consideration and should be treated more like a funeral - even if strictly speaking that life was as of yet likely not inhabited by soul/could not survive on it's own. And women after such a termination should be given the option of a little funeral - that should really stick it to them, to be more careful next about sex and her future sex partner. Married women shouldn't be given an option of abortion without the consent of her husband anyway - abortion of them is just bullshit.

So of course in my view the same rules would apply to children lost in a car-accident as to a woman terminating the pregnancy after a gang-rape of two inbred morons in the park.

In addition you have to realize that in our system it's idiocracy reigning and the childbirths of low-IQ single-motherhood households would be likely twice as high in the US. One economist even detailed the reason for the drop in violent gang crime in the US starting in the 1980s with the pill and available abortions. Otherwise those feral young men coming out of the households of single mothers would be having x-times the shootings they have now.

But of course the left is insane for the wrong reasons.
(This post was last modified: 10-12-2018 03:46 PM by Simeon_Strangelight.)
10-12-2018 03:43 PM
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RE: People Who Argue Foetuses Can Be "Killed" By 3rd Parties (Assaults/Car Crashes etc.)
IIRC, Canadian law at least consistent. Homicide is defined as when a human being cases the death of another human being. A child does not become a human being until it exits the birth canal.

Of it dies in the womb that would be and aggravating factor for whatever was done to the mother. I'm not sure but I think liability can follow for injuries sustained in utero is the baby survies long enough to be born. Not in a position to research it at the moment.

In any event, pro-abortion advocates are generally their own best argument as to why some people should be killed in the womb.
10-12-2018 09:04 PM
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