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The abortion issue thread
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Tail Gunner Offline
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Post: #26
RE: The abortion thread
(09-16-2019 11:32 PM)Donbe Wrote:  
(09-16-2019 04:23 PM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  
(09-16-2019 04:16 PM)Donbe Wrote:  
(09-16-2019 03:52 PM)ilostabet Wrote:  
(09-16-2019 03:25 PM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  That is a super-ridiculous argument. For all we know, a single woman has already aborted a child prodigy who would have become a doctor who cured cancer.

Every child has the right to their life.

I hear this argument all the time and no one in their right mind would apply the same logic to anything else.

But we don't even need to follow logic on this, just the most basic conception of morality, that even if it could be proven to prevent some future evil (which it can't), killing a baby is, at the end of the day, killing a baby.

I can't see any problem big or grave enough that killing a baby might be the solution to it.

But we are distracted by so much propaganda and surrounded by so much technical marvel that it might as well be magic, and all of it designed to detach us from our humanity, to make us forget we have a divine nature, something more than flesh - and that utility, profit, benefit, should not be the ultimate concerns of a man made in God's image.

At what juncture in time does it become "killing a baby"?

I don't see a lot of biblical guidance on the question, but I'm open to conjecture.

There is no need for conjecture. God is very clear on the matter:

Quote:13 For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother’s womb.
14 I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well.
15 My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place, when I was woven together in the depths of the earth.
16 Your eyes saw my unformed body; all the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be.

Psalm 139:13-16


Quote:Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart

Jeremiah 1:5

I see some issues with using this one as a prohibition on abortion.

1) Yes, of course he knows. He knew well before we were formed in the womb, for that matter. Does that mean we should try to ensure we go through the very specific chain of events we assume he predicted for us, lest we murder our future descendants by inadvertently deviating from the plan?

2) Catholics use this one to condemn all birth control. If you take it as a prohibition on abortion, I think that's a logical step. Protestants strike me as inconsistent on this measure.

3) I'm getting creative, but something else that has occurred to me: Protestants generally assume that the souls of the aborted go to heaven. In that event, abortion makes sense for a parent who is willing to sacrifice for their child; it might be a sin on their part, but they're ensuring a favorable outcome for their child's eternity, rather than taking the risk that they might fall away in life.

Catholics might counter that they go instead to "limbo." I'm not familiar with much basis for that belief; it seems like something the Catholic Church has promoted to counter the observation above.

I tend to believe a soul is involved at some point in the latter stages of pregnancy, but I'm not impressed by the general lack of intellectual curiosity in the issue. Too much blind rage and not enough interest in pursuing truth.

1) You stated: "I don't see a lot of biblical guidance on the question" regarding when a baby becomes human.

2) I provided the exact Bible references that answer this question, establishing that God sees an "unformed body" of a baby as a person.

3) You responded: 'Too much blind rage and not enough interest in pursuing truth."

So I presented the truth regarding your original query and then, after the truth is presented to you, you ignored it and then arbitrarily claimed that there is "not enough interest in pursuing truth."

You are correct that there is "not enough interest in pursuing truth." And it comes from you.
(This post was last modified: 09-16-2019 11:54 PM by Tail Gunner.)
09-16-2019 11:52 PM
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TigerMandingo Offline
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Post: #27
RE: The abortion thread
I have to disagree with ilostabet on his point that we have a “divine nature”. This sounds like the “life is precious” argument. Im not a misanthrope by any means, but I do believe humans have a tendency to bullshit themselves a lot. Life is not precious. You’re born, you live 70-80 years if you’re lucky and then you die. You’ll work your ass off and be miserable at some corporate gig for the duration of that period. Again, nothing “precious”.

At Tail Gunner’s assertion that “every child has a right to their life”. First of all, despite what the Constitution or the Bible or the fucking Bill of rights may say, no one has any “rights”. It’s a made-up term. As we’ve seen in America over the last few decades, “rights” can be easily taken away, and if they can be taken away, then they aren’t really rights in the first place.

A lot of guys here are operating from the Biblical point of view. Which is cool, I don’t want to insult anyone on here. But there are people who believe the Bible is written by regular men and it’s mostly a work of fiction.
09-17-2019 09:03 AM
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Mage Offline
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Post: #28
RE: The abortion thread
^ Tiger mandingo

I am not operating from a Biblical point of view and I think abortion is an obvious murder.

Who is more willfully blind - the people who believe that the historically and scientifically debunked and contradictory book with many errors and excuses to slavery and violence called Bible is true word of God or people who believe there is difference to killing a human being depending on whether he is located on a female womb or not and believe it is a casual thing when human being is in womb and the greatest atrocity while he is out. I cannot say. I believe both are willful morons. So sad that in these dark times 99% of humans are morons in either one way or another.

It's almost like in these insane times and in this insane environment we have built for ourselves a human must choose an insanity to believe in... to avoid going insane. Or maybe to avoid going sane? Fearing going sane would make him insane?
(This post was last modified: 09-17-2019 09:33 AM by Mage.)
09-17-2019 09:30 AM
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