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Male friendship in a lopsided sexual market
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Graft Offline
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Post: #1
Male friendship in a lopsided sexual market
I've learned a lot about male friendship in the past few years. My most notable lesson is that for friendships formed outside of school/military, it's simply a transaction of value. Guys will just size you up to see what tangible items you can bring into their life, whether it's pussy, job opportunities, parties, etc. Aditionally, guys don't really have time or desire to maintain friendships outside of work or school unless there is tangible benefit.

Just a disclaimer: My experience takes place with NYC young adult social politics.

I've started to wonder how male friendships would function in a monogamous and less brutal sexual marketplace. I think that women's power in the sexual marketplace has huge consequences towards adult male relationships, especially in a large city of mostly singles.

If guys don't have pussy on the agenda then it's a radically different social environment. More time spent with male friends thats not involving chasing ass. Women's opinions won't play a factor in group politics. Nightclub connections will diminish in importance. There won't be a pack of thirsty hounds jumping when you bring sets.

In order to keep friendships, I need to consistently show that I have high SMV/value or they will come to an end.
(This post was last modified: 10-24-2018 10:47 PM by Graft.)
10-24-2018 10:43 PM
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Flux Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Male friendship in a lopsided sexual market
Male friendships have always been goal oriented, that doesn't mean there isn't love involved.

Camaraderie is impossible to attain without a common goal; if that goal is to get pussy, then so be it; just make sure everyone in the group gets it.

Business friendships are even better, because you make money while making close friends. Killing two birds with one stone is always the way to go.
10-24-2018 11:16 PM
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mickeyd Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Male friendship in a lopsided sexual market
(10-24-2018 10:43 PM)Graft Wrote:  My experience takes place with NYC young adult social politics.

Why does it always smell like shit outside? PS: i live in a dump.
10-24-2018 11:17 PM
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MongolianAbroad Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Male friendship in a lopsided sexual market
I thought this thread was going to be about something gay.

But no, it's actually a good thread.

And yeah, this dynamic get stronger and stronger the older you get too. In your 20's, you may make friends with completely random people, but as you get older, your social circle of non-transactional friendships tends to diminish unless you're proactive about expanding it.

It's part of growing up, at 20 you're cool with spending a night shooting the shit and having beers with people that are going nowhere in life, just for the for the fun of socializing.

In your 30's, that doesn't hold as much of an appeal, you size people up and if they're the kind of person you've seen go places in life that you aren't interested in going, you eject immediately.

It depends, though, sometimes I do still maintain non-transactional friendships, that kind of socializing can be healthy/satisfying. I've actually been prioritizing that more and more lately, after purposely setting that aside to focus on professional/personal growth.
(This post was last modified: 10-25-2018 12:09 AM by MongolianAbroad.)
10-24-2018 11:37 PM
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Salesian Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Male friendship in a lopsided sexual market
Like Seinfeld, you only need 3 friends. Anything beyond that is a bonus.

The more you rely on male acquaintances, coworkers, associates, drinking buddies, party buddies, etc for loyalty and good will... the significantly worse off you'll be. Need nothing from them and the more you'll receive. My two cents.
10-24-2018 11:54 PM
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The Catalyst Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Male friendship in a lopsided sexual market
Value is really nebulous here. This is what's really annoying as that isn't fully defined.

For a wide definition of value, realistically you shouldn't have any friends that don't give you at least some kind of value(like good company at least).

For a narrow definition of value(materialish-only benefit), I guess that's a representation either of how soulless big cities can be or how much you have to be proactive to create solid friendships
10-25-2018 12:50 AM
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RatInTheWoods Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Male friendship in a lopsided sexual market
You suck at making friends then.

My bros would give me a kidney, help me bury the body and bail me out of a Thai prison.

As I would for them.
(This post was last modified: 10-25-2018 02:01 AM by RatInTheWoods.)
10-25-2018 02:00 AM
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Barron Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Male friendship in a lopsided sexual market
(10-25-2018 02:00 AM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  You suck at making friends then.

My bros would give me a kidney, help me bury the body and bail me out of a Thai prison.

As I would for them.

So Alpha.

Last weekend I went to take a drunken shit and missed. My buddy since we were 5 helped me clean it up off the floor and still get a notch that night.

I'd do it for him!

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10-25-2018 02:29 AM
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torridon747 Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Male friendship in a lopsided sexual market
So alpha

One time I slipped and fell in a construction area where they were operating on an open sewage line. My dick got all shitty. I asked my homie who I met in the neighboring crib in the maternity ward to clean the shit-sewage off my dick because I was nauseous from the fumes and I had a date with a hb8.5 after. He sucked it off and then gave me his credit card. That's real friendship

I wouldn't do it for him because I trust him to not get into these retarded situations but that's the type of friendships I have
(This post was last modified: 10-25-2018 02:41 AM by torridon747.)
10-25-2018 02:35 AM
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mikado Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Male friendship in a lopsided sexual market
(10-25-2018 02:35 AM)Eugenics Wrote:  So alpha

One time I slipped and fell in a construction area where they were operating on an open sewage line. My dick got all shitty. I asked my homie who I met in the neighboring crib in the maternity ward to clean the shit-sewage off my dick because I was nauseous from the fumes and I had a date with a hb8.5 after. He sucked it off and then gave me his credit card. That's real friendship

I wouldn't do it for him because I trust him to not get into these retarded situations but that's the type of friendships I have

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10-25-2018 03:05 AM
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Brother Abdul Majeed Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Male friendship in a lopsided sexual market
On a more serious note though, I have found that having a good friend is important. I've had the same best friend for 40 years now. We met when we were 12. Of my first day in a new school in grade 7 we had an epic fistfight which took 3 teachers to break up, but were best friends ever since. We took great trips together when we were young, picked up broads in bars on 3 different continents together. We were best men at each other's weddings, I'm godfather to his eldest son - as he is to mine. We live in different countries now, but we make the effort to see one another often. We're meeting up in Texas next month to watch an NFL game (a first for me). It's nice to have someone trustworthy like that in my life. A lot of guys don't have a real best friend anymore.
10-25-2018 03:44 AM
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jordypip23 Offline
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RE: Male friendship in a lopsided sexual market
(10-24-2018 11:17 PM)mickeyd Wrote:  
(10-24-2018 10:43 PM)Graft Wrote:  My experience takes place with NYC young adult social politics.

Why does it always smell like shit outside? PS: i live in a dump.

Well if you're in Manhattan the literal answer is because you don't have alleys out there. Bit of a drawback in an island that literally outputs a greater GDP than many foreign nations.

Undecided
10-25-2018 04:16 AM
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StrikeBack Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Male friendship in a lopsided sexual market
Sounds like a NYC thing where the fuck you got mine attitude is at the most extreme. I've never seen this among guys here.

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10-25-2018 04:19 AM
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Not a Second Hander Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Male friendship in a lopsided sexual market
I believe the modern western lifestyle of moving around from one town, city, province, country, continent to another for uni, jobs, promotions, business etc ... has done more to ruin male friendships than a brutal SMP.

A few of my old friends from school never left my city and still hang out with friends they had since 7th grade. Some may call that lame but I've seen their friendships evolve, deepen and mature into something very enviable during that time. 15 years of friendship is no joke.

I have friends from those days as well but most in my circle had moved abroad for uni and keep moving for work. Our friendships are still there but never got the chance to mature like the former group. More like friendships based on Facebook and your occasional beer once a year or two reminiscing about the good times.

I'm thus becoming disillusioned with extensive travel. Travel not only has a point of diminishing returns, but also a point of exponentially negative returns. Financially but more importantly in the way a man fundamentally relates with people on a meta level.

I can almost immediately spot the overly travelled drifter types. Very common particularly here in Asia. Few things sadden me as much as a grasshopper type man with no roots who quickly makes acquaintances at bars or clubs. There's a sort of mania or maybe restless energy I don't trust about these guys and I think its caused by constantly travelling, shallow social interactions and lack of deeper bonds with other men.

I presume that because since moving to China, I've caught myself accommodate behavior in others and in myself I would never have tolerated back when I had a solid group of male friends.
(This post was last modified: 10-25-2018 04:55 AM by Not a Second Hander.)
10-25-2018 04:49 AM
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Dalaran1991 Offline
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RE: Male friendship in a lopsided sexual market
Friendship is a type of human bond, and people tend to forget that men bond by doing things together. Another variable is trust. Love actually has very little to do with it.

That's why camaraderie in war is the strongest, most lauded of all kinds of bonds because you are constantly doing things together and must rely on each other to stay alive. You don't even have to like the person to be able to trust him to watch your back, that's why it's so sacred because a bond built on love/emotion/likability has zero fucking value because emotion changes and it's for the women.

When I think about it, my best friend, the kind who goes pick me up at airport at 5am or helps me out with legal issues, aren't exactly the personality I like the most, but I trust him. The kind of people I like the most are not my best friends and I would not want one as such.

Unfortunately in these times of peace men and especially young men just don't "do" things anymore. Instead they rumor, bitch and stick to social media where trust/friendship is a currency to be exchanged at will.

That and people are so paranoia these days. "He who trust no one can not be trusted"

Still, most people form friendships at an earlier age because we tend to be more trusting, and tend to do more things together and have shared experience. There's the added layer that when you are young you don't exactly have much (money, status, etc.) so people (in general) can feel that if they have nothing to give to the other, then such friendship is less transactional.

Other than that I find that most late relationship people form are purely transactional, emotionally or materially.

Ass or cash, nobody rides for free - WestIndiArchie
(This post was last modified: 10-25-2018 04:56 AM by Dalaran1991.)
10-25-2018 04:53 AM
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Vladimir Poontang Offline
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RE: Male friendship in a lopsided sexual market
(10-25-2018 04:53 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  That's why camaraderie in war is the strongest, most lauded of all kinds of bonds because you are constantly doing things together and must rely on each other to stay alive. You don't even have to like the person to be able to trust him to watch your back, that's why it's so sacred because a bond built on love/emotion/likability has zero fucking value because emotion changes and it's for the women.

When I read the bolded part, I had an image of being in battle, and having to rely on some guy that I don't get on with, and seeing him do his best to make sure I don't get shot. Pretty emotional when you think about it.

That's not how we do things in Russia, comrade.

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10-25-2018 06:17 AM
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Thomas Jackson Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Male friendship in a lopsided sexual market
I definitely agree it gets harder after college. I still have 5-10 good friends from growing up/college, but since then have probably consider 1 or 2 I'd consider true friends. You meet a lot of people, but there is no deeper connection/shared experience and it does seem to be about value as OP stated.

The great thing about old friends is you can not have seen them for 5 years and get together for a beer and it's like no time has past and you are right back where you left off. Girls can't do that.
10-25-2018 06:19 AM
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BlastbeatCasanova Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Male friendship in a lopsided sexual market
Nice post, going to text some of my bros later today. You can't put a price on good friends, especially if they are unplugged
10-25-2018 06:22 AM
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Dalaran1991 Offline
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RE: Male friendship in a lopsided sexual market
(10-25-2018 06:17 AM)Vladimir Poontang Wrote:  
(10-25-2018 04:53 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  That's why camaraderie in war is the strongest, most lauded of all kinds of bonds because you are constantly doing things together and must rely on each other to stay alive. You don't even have to like the person to be able to trust him to watch your back, that's why it's so sacred because a bond built on love/emotion/likability has zero fucking value because emotion changes and it's for the women.

When I read the bolded part, I had an image of being in battle, and having to rely on some guy that I don't get on with, and seeing him do his best to make sure I don't get shot. Pretty emotional when you think about it.

It's not the most comfortable thing but it's the most rational with severe consequence. If he fucks up you die, you fuck up he dies, and most likely you both will end up dying if somebody fucks up. It's VERY easy to fuck up in combat because the most trivial thing like not covering this angle is enough to get everyone killed. That's basically the most drilled in aspect of training: the whole squad pays for the mistake of one.

Does this happen a lot? Fuck yes, and people die as consequence. But in general if you are in active combat and you get out alive, that's because you and probably everyone else didn't fuck up. You don't have to like the guy, he doesn't have to like you, but you both watch each other back so you both get out alive. That's the best part, you have no choice but to trust some fucker you don't know. And having gotten out alive enough times, you become friends for life and there's absolutely nothing civilian life has that is even remotely as intense to rival with such bond.

It's why veterans or gang members band together because most of the things they do and experience can only be shared among themselves.

Also friendship has to be earned. Both people need to put in the work. In this day and age where nobody puts in any work any more, whether it's game, work, life or relationship, color me surprised if they can't build something that last.

Ass or cash, nobody rides for free - WestIndiArchie
(This post was last modified: 10-25-2018 07:21 AM by Dalaran1991.)
10-25-2018 07:17 AM
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Ski pro Offline
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RE: Male friendship in a lopsided sexual market
I'm making a conscious effort these days to make sure that my group of friends doesn't drift apart now that we're all starting to have kids and scatter around the world.

I just organised a meet up of my 3 oldest friends and it was a great time. We made a point of doing something together, it was only exploring an island but the doing part was the key.

Don't let modern social media kid you that sending a few what'sapp back and forth counts. Go see your friends, put your phones away and hang out, do stuff together. It's important and you won't regret it as you get older.

Women come and go, your male friends, your real friends and your family are the most important.
(This post was last modified: 10-25-2018 08:46 AM by Ski pro.)
10-25-2018 08:45 AM
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Donfitz007 Offline
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RE: Male friendship in a lopsided sexual market
I've never seen this problem down south or even in Chicago.

In Alabama it seems the best way to make and keep friends is to be a charming asshole, and to have some sort of bravado. Being skilled at something also helps but I never really had the problem of making friends.

Also it depends on where you make these friends, work is a horrible place to make friends most of the time. Gyms, hobbies, cigar/spirit lounges, it's easy here.


Like I said, easy HERE. NYC seems to be a hard place to make friends.
10-25-2018 09:01 AM
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mikado Offline
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RE: Male friendship in a lopsided sexual market
(10-25-2018 08:45 AM)Ski pro Wrote:  I'm making a conscious effort these days to make sure that my group of friends doesn't drift apart now that we're all starting to have kids and scatter around the world.

I just organised a meet up of my 3 oldest friends and it was a great time. We made a point of doing something together, it was only exploring an island but the doing part was the key.

Don't let modern social media kid you that sending a few what'sapp back and forth counts. Go see your friends, put your phones away and hang out, do stuff together. It's important and you won't regret it as you get older.

Women come and go, your male friends, your real friends and your family are the most important.


Quoted for emphasis.

When you make everyone put down their phones, the interactions always become way more genuine. No exception.

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10-25-2018 09:03 AM
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Post: #23
RE: Male friendship in a lopsided sexual market
(10-24-2018 10:43 PM)Graft Wrote:  I've started to wonder how male friendships would function in a monogamous and less brutal sexual marketplace. I think that women's power in the sexual marketplace has huge consequences towards adult male relationships, especially in a large city of mostly singles.

If guys don't have pussy on the agenda then it's a radically different social environment. More time spent with male friends thats not involving chasing ass. Women's opinions won't play a factor in group politics. Nightclub connections will diminish in importance. There won't be a pack of thirsty hounds jumping when you bring sets.

In order to keep friendships, I need to consistently show that I have high SMV/value or they will come to an end.

Increased scarcity causes increased competition, and pussy is the number one thing men are hardwired to compete over, so yeah, the competition seems dialed up to 11. And now that women have invaded each and every male space, the competition has become omnipresent, and of course this alters the basic dynamic that exists between men. I can't tell you how many situations I've been in--school, work, social settings--where there was some job, some project, etc. that needed to be done, and the boys/men were too busy trying to look cool for the girls. Not to mention all the times a friend backstabbed me over a girl or got pissy because I was getting attention he wanted for himself.

It's not just the presence of competition, it's the absence of honor that is toxic to male friendships. And honor is an inherently male trait. We need to learn it from our fathers/teachers/coaches/etc and need to keep that flame alive, so to speak. Our environment has become toxic to male honor. Empowerment of women means the game never ends (not even with marriage) and since the game never stops, male sexual market competition never stops. So it's hard to know true peace.


(10-25-2018 04:19 AM)StrikeBack Wrote:  Sounds like a NYC thing where the fuck you got mine attitude is at the most extreme. I've never seen this among guys here.

Same shit in Toronto. Probably every big Western city, and thus less so in smaller towns where the sexual market isn't as skewed toward women.
10-25-2018 09:14 AM
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kaotic Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Male friendship in a lopsided sexual market
I've had a huge group of friends after I got right after high school.

That's the key, if you start hanging around your boys when you're young they carry on into lifelong friendships.

It's sometimes harder to meet guys your age doing the same thing, fortunately I have multiple social circles catering towards different things: festival circlel, harley riders circl, snowboard circle, party circle, different city circle, etc.


What's changed is that I've met forum members and traveled with them and created some lifeline bonds, and we help eachother in every aspect possible, from game, life choices, girls, careers, etc.

I can literally be 100% honest with these guys - there's a handful of guys I grew up with that I can be this away also.

The forum changed my life and I'm thankful for the guys I've met from here, I look forward to meeting more of them.


I highly suggest meeting up with forum members that are vetted and see what you can learn from eachother.

Group chats are essential in making this happen.

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10-25-2018 11:35 AM
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wannable alpha Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Male friendship in a lopsided sexual market
Male friendship in a conservative culture like India is certainly lopsided when it comes to dating. Most guys will not introduce you to their sisters/cousins since "good girls don't date around".

Guys also don't introduce you to their female friends, acquaintances or colleagues because of the hopeful orbiter and cockblocker mentality.

Otherwise they are fine.
10-25-2018 01:10 PM
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