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Who are the best to learn from in 2018?
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corsega Offline
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Post: #176
RE: Who are the best to learn from in 2018?
(12-31-2018 07:15 PM)GT777733 Wrote:  @CharmingPsychopath - you are generally right about everything you are saying. Especially RSD.

It's not worth arguing it or discussing it with some people though.

Guys involved in the pickup industry (students, coaches and those in the community) don't want to see the industry and the people involved in it for what it is until they are ready to see it

*Don't confuse this with me saying the pickup industry should not exist. What I am saying is that it is marketed, communicated and sold in completely the wrong way - and beginners or guys that don't know any better tend to get the wrong idea, develop a guru complex about the guys on YouTube teaching it (without knowing these guys' pasts or knowing what their day to day lives actually look like - pro tip: completely different to what they show you and tell you in their videos in 99.9% of cases), tend to get stuck in it and begin to think it can deliver them something it can't.

Of course he's generally right. Guru complex, false gods, fake infields, blah, blah, blah. Anyone with an above-average IQ and red pill awareness knows this about the pickup industry.

Yet he's provided no alternatives for TEACHERS. Individuals who are experts in their chosen fields, and good enough at pedagogy to inspire learning.

I stand by my recommendations. If someone else can recommend someone who they think is better at teaching (operative word here) the disciplines I listed out, please let me know and I will check them out.

(12-31-2018 04:27 PM)pros80 Wrote:  Since I see some posts regarding the looks matching Take a look at this popular instagram couple.

Clearly the girl is a few points better looking than the guy.

https://imgur.com/a/o2Z1c9F

[Image: fey4NnX.png]

Guys always want to bring up the anomaly. Generally, "you get what you are". Everything regresses towards the mean:




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(This post was last modified: 12-31-2018 08:32 PM by corsega.)
12-31-2018 07:52 PM
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Post: #177
RE: Who are the best to learn from in 2018?
(12-31-2018 01:09 PM)CharmingPsychopath Wrote:  I understand your experience with RSD fans very well. Smile

I have met some of the RSD "gurus", including Owen and Julien and my impression was:

1. Negative in case of Julien.

2. Mind-blowingly negative in case of Owen.

I was often ashamed of their behaviour, especially in the case of Owen.

Can you give more details on this? What specifically did they do to turn you off them so much? Not doubting you, just interested to hear first hand experiences of dealing with commercial dating coaches etc so we can understand what it's really like behind the veener of the youtube videos

Quote:I'm a wedding photographer by trade. I see many men punching way above their weight; gorgeous women who are hard 8s and soft 9s marrying 6s and 7s. Of course I'm not talking about fat, balding men marrying supermodels - no, simply very average-looking men marrying beautiful women, and I see this a lot more than the inverse. It should give the average-looking man much hope. It also has nothing to do with "beta bucks".

The problem with this is that you're employing the same criteria to rating women (which is almost entirely based on physical appearance) to the men. Although physical appearance is a factor, it lags behind other factors such as relative status, game, wealth etc. A lot of which you would never be able to tell just from looking at the dude or even interacting with him briefly.

Quote:Guys, I must say that I'm disgusted with the fact that anybody at all recommended RSD.

Seriously, it's 2018, one day from 2019 - is it still a mystery what kind of people they are and how they operate? Some people knew it already around 2003-2004.

It sickens me to see how the PUA community is suffering from the same problems over and over.

Re RSD, in my personal opinion (albeit this will probably be an unpopular one) is that I actually quite like their stuff and have learned a lot from it over the years. Particularly the tonnes of free content they upload to youtube. Of course it can get very off the wall in parts and woo-woo (esp the constant love-in with Ekart Tolle etc) and that Julien shit was totally fucked up. However, there's been some quality vids also which I've taken a lot from and the RSD Luke stuff re social circle in particular has really validated a lot of stuff I was already doing and had serious success with. As it is with anything, use your own judgement, try to understand why something works (or not), and most of all don't believe anything until you've tried it out yourself plenty of times and it works FOR YOU (as everyone is different).

The biggest issue I have with RSD is not the company or coaches themselves but the blind cult like fanboyism that a lot of their followers have. I've met some seriously weird dudes from pickup forums, particularly daygamers. But RSD fanboys take weird to whole new heights. Nobody can burn down a bar/club like an RSD dude spam approaching. And in that by merely associating with them can destroy years of social capital you have built up in a venue within minutes. Of the ones I've met, most seemed to have zero friends outside of the RSD inner circle and blow god knows how much money on attending serial bootcamps, seemingly more concerned about worshiping their gods than actually trying to learn anything.

At least on this forum most guys goals go beyond merely just getting laid, such as becoming location independent, working out, travelling etc. For the majority of RSD boys I've met tho their single overriding goal in life wasn't even about getting laid, but rather to become an RSD instructor.

Dunno, maybe I just so happened to meet a bad selection. Or perhaps the more 'normal' RSD fans I didn't realise were fans as they tended to not be so vocal about it (I'm guessing this probably is actually the case).

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01-01-2019 07:11 AM
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CharmingPsychopath Offline
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Post: #178
RE: Who are the best to learn from in 2018?
(12-31-2018 03:18 PM)corsega Wrote:  Do you have a blog? Do you have material? What are your philosophies?

Or, if you prefer to evaluate it by your metrics:
- What are your results?
- What do you look like?
- What is the looks difference between you and the girls you have banged?

But the real kicker:
- Are you happy and fulfilled?

In the previously discussed context, none of this really matters. Because the fact that certain other people, certain processes in the PUA community are toxic, does not depend on my person. BTW Many other people noticed the things I was speaking about.

I don't have a blog, or a material. My philosophy is based on learning from some naturals I know, out of the "known schools", it's most similiar to Gunwitch.

As for looks and results, I'm a 6-7 "above average, but not impressive" guy, who banged some 8s and dozens of 7, plus a few 5-6. These were 8s and 7s by my standards, might be 9s and 8s by your standards, if you give Todds GF a 5, or even 5.5.

Happy and fulfilled? No, I'm having problems unrelated to women. But I was very fulfilled before the unrelated problems hit me.


(12-31-2018 03:35 PM)Irish Wrote:  Deleting your first 4 aspie rant posts on this thread would be a start...

What about my post is "aspie"?

It's sad to see how the same problems perpetuate over and over in the PUA community. Is being sad about this "aspie"?

(12-31-2018 07:15 PM)GT777733 Wrote:  @CharmingPsychopath - you are generally right about everything you are saying. Especially RSD.

It's not worth arguing it or discussing it with some people though.

Guys involved in the pickup industry (students, coaches and those in the community) don't want to see the industry and the people involved in it for what it is until they are ready to see it

Yes, I know. Sad

(01-01-2019 07:11 AM)Irish Wrote:  Can you give more details on this? What specifically did they do to turn you off them so much? Not doubting you, just interested to hear first hand experiences of dealing with commercial dating coaches etc so we can understand what it's really like behind the veener of the youtube videos

Yes, sure.

BTW If what I will write will sound weird, even bizarre, then I'm describing it correctly, because that's how it was.

They both had a weird, unpleasant vibe and behaviour, which was especially bad in case of Owen.

Their vibe/behaviour was outgoing and social, but actually unfriendly, mean and socially "abrasive". They were kind of mean, rude to people and you could tell that they consider it cool and expected good reactions from women by doing this.

It was vaguely similiar to "Cocky & Funny", but I would call it "Cocky & Rude/Mean & Weird". In Julien's case there was more humor there, but it was still bad.

I don't remember the precise lines, but I can try to convey the impression using my own words:

Let's say we two would meet in real life and I would say somehing like: "Man, you look shitty, you look like an incel, hahaha. You're Irish, right? I hate Irish, all the Irish people I've met were stupid, hahaha".

What I'm trying to convey here, is behaviour (and vibe), which doesn't make friends among normal people.

They were extroverted, outspoken in a bad manner, similiar to a rude drunk guy, who's walking a street and shouting, saying rude stuff to girls. It was shameful and unattractive, like a drunk guy's behaviour. Plus it was additionally weird, as the guys were supposedly master of "social dynamics".

Somebody could say that maybe they were "building value", "buying temperature" or something like that. But whatever they were doing, it didn't work too well. The girls were looking at Owen with revulsion, reacting to him in a "get lost creep" manner. Their reactions to Julien seemed mixed, but I think they would be much worse if he wasn't a tall, good looking guy.

It was shocking to see how bad they were, but another shocking thing was how they seemed to be totally, and I mean totally oblivious to how bad their behaviour/vibe is and how badly it's affecting the girls. They seemed to think that what they're doing is awesome, the best thing ever. It looked like they do not evaluate what they're doing according to the results, impact on girls they've having, but instead according to some "we are the best" dogma.

My impression was that Julien is a weird, unpleasant guy, but Owen was much worse, to me he looked completely delusional.

Quote:I've met some seriously weird dudes from pickup forums, particularly daygamers. But RSD fanboys take weird to whole new heights.

Compare your "take weird to whole new heights" to what I wrote above. I really don't think it's coincidence that such "gurus" attract (perhaps also create?) that kind of fans.
(This post was last modified: 01-01-2019 09:50 AM by CharmingPsychopath.)
01-01-2019 09:46 AM
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pros80 Offline
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Post: #179
RE: Who are the best to learn from in 2018?
(12-31-2018 07:52 PM)corsega Wrote:  
(12-31-2018 07:15 PM)GT777733 Wrote:  @CharmingPsychopath - you are generally right about everything you are saying. Especially RSD.

It's not worth arguing it or discussing it with some people though.

Guys involved in the pickup industry (students, coaches and those in the community) don't want to see the industry and the people involved in it for what it is until they are ready to see it

*Don't confuse this with me saying the pickup industry should not exist. What I am saying is that it is marketed, communicated and sold in completely the wrong way - and beginners or guys that don't know any better tend to get the wrong idea, develop a guru complex about the guys on YouTube teaching it (without knowing these guys' pasts or knowing what their day to day lives actually look like - pro tip: completely different to what they show you and tell you in their videos in 99.9% of cases), tend to get stuck in it and begin to think it can deliver them something it can't.

Of course he's generally right. Guru complex, false gods, fake infields, blah, blah, blah. Anyone with an above-average IQ and red pill awareness knows this about the pickup industry.

Yet he's provided no alternatives for TEACHERS. Individuals who are experts in their chosen fields, and good enough at pedagogy to inspire learning.

I stand by my recommendations. If someone else can recommend someone who they think is better at teaching (operative word here) the disciplines I listed out, please let me know and I will check them out.

(12-31-2018 04:27 PM)pros80 Wrote:  Since I see some posts regarding the looks matching Take a look at this popular instagram couple.

Clearly the girl is a few points better looking than the guy.

https://imgur.com/a/o2Z1c9F

[Image: fey4NnX.png]

Guys always want to bring up the anomaly. Generally, "you get what you are". Everything regresses towards the mean:




I can easily post another 20 more of these pics with different couples to emphasize the point. Would that help??


That's what being in game is about , to be that outlier and not the average get your surface level.
01-01-2019 10:27 AM
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quaker13 Offline
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Post: #180
RE: Who are the best to learn from in 2018?
I agree with Charming Psychopath. All the RSD guys seem like dudes I would never under any circumstances let in my social circle.
01-01-2019 10:28 AM
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Post: #181
RE: Who are the best to learn from in 2018?
(01-01-2019 10:28 AM)quaker13 Wrote:  I agree with Charming Psychopath. All the RSD guys seem like dudes I would never under any circumstances let in my social circle.

In my opinion, it's even visible on their Youtube videos, if somebody looks closely, ignores the words and the hype, and instead pays attention to their subcommunications, the look in their eyes, the facial expressions, the tone of their voices.

But in real life, where they guard themselves less and can't select what gets published and what does not, it's of course much worse.
01-01-2019 07:08 PM
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corsega Offline
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Post: #182
RE: Who are the best to learn from in 2018?
(01-01-2019 09:46 AM)CharmingPsychopath Wrote:  I don't have a blog, or a material. My philosophy is based on learning from some naturals I know, out of the "known schools", it's most similiar to Gunwitch.

Cool, next time someone asks who to learn from in 2018, I'll just tell them to PM you.

You're the epitome of someone who complains about something without offering an alternative.

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(This post was last modified: 01-01-2019 11:19 PM by corsega.)
01-01-2019 11:19 PM
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Post: #183
RE: Who are the best to learn from in 2018?
(12-31-2018 11:02 AM)Repo Wrote:  
(12-31-2018 01:25 AM)corsega Wrote:  
(12-30-2018 11:44 PM)CharmingPsychopath Wrote:  Guys, I must say that I'm disgusted with the fact that anybody at all recommended RSD.

Seriously, it's 2018, one day from 2019 - is it still a mystery what kind of people they are and how they operate? Some people knew it already around 2003-2004.

It sickens me to see how the PUA community is suffering from the same problems over and over.

This should be something obvious, this should be common knowledge, but I guess it isn't, so I will say it: a lot of the various "seduction experts" are much, much less succesful with woman than they pretend to be. And whatever their methods and beliefs are, they usually do not work well for themselves - so why would they work well for somebody else?

Many PUA guys who met the "gurus" in real life (especially outside of the workshop environment) were dissapointed with them. I myself have experienced that - I've met several "experts", few of them being very well known around the world. And most of them simply sucked.


BTW I haven't met Todd, but I deeply recommend having a look at how his girlfriend looks like and comparing her looks to the image of his sexual life that his marketing is presenting. It's a great illustration to this whole subject of seduction gurus. (I give her 4/10, while some more generous people think she might be 5/10)

A guy's ability as a teacher is not defined by his personal results. The best coaches are the guys who sucked and worked hard as hell to get where they are. Everyone who has been coached knows this.

If you think this is a 4, you need to have your scale adjusted.

[Image: M5zkGdM.png]

Whatever her number is, she is not an attractive woman.

Is that actually Todd Valentine's wife? Apparently they have a baby and an open relationship where he can bang other broads.

From what I've seen of RSD's content, Todd appears to be the best past-contributor (by a country mile). His stuff is intelligent, and grounded in actionable advice.
The rest of them seem just seem like tools peddling bs.

ABC
(This post was last modified: 01-02-2019 12:31 AM by Player_1337.)
01-02-2019 12:27 AM
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MathGuy Offline
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Post: #184
RE: Who are the best to learn from in 2018?
(01-01-2019 09:46 AM)CharmingPsychopath Wrote:  
(01-01-2019 07:11 AM)Irish Wrote:  Can you give more details on this? What specifically did they do to turn you off them so much? Not doubting you, just interested to hear first hand experiences of dealing with commercial dating coaches etc so we can understand what it's really like behind the veener of the youtube videos

Yes, sure.

BTW If what I will write will sound weird, even bizarre, then I'm describing it correctly, because that's how it was.

They both had a weird, unpleasant vibe and behaviour, which was especially bad in case of Owen.

Their vibe/behaviour was outgoing and social, but actually unfriendly, mean and socially "abrasive". They were kind of mean, rude to people and you could tell that they consider it cool and expected good reactions from women by doing this.

It was vaguely similiar to "Cocky & Funny", but I would call it "Cocky & Rude/Mean & Weird". In Julien's case there was more humor there, but it was still bad.

I don't remember the precise lines, but I can try to convey the impression using my own words:

Let's say we two would meet in real life and I would say somehing like: "Man, you look shitty, you look like an incel, hahaha. You're Irish, right? I hate Irish, all the Irish people I've met were stupid, hahaha".

What I'm trying to convey here, is behaviour (and vibe), which doesn't make friends among normal people.

They were extroverted, outspoken in a bad manner, similiar to a rude drunk guy, who's walking a street and shouting, saying rude stuff to girls. It was shameful and unattractive, like a drunk guy's behaviour. Plus it was additionally weird, as the guys were supposedly master of "social dynamics".

Somebody could say that maybe they were "building value", "buying temperature" or something like that. But whatever they were doing, it didn't work too well. The girls were looking at Owen with revulsion, reacting to him in a "get lost creep" manner. Their reactions to Julien seemed mixed, but I think they would be much worse if he wasn't a tall, good looking guy.

It was shocking to see how bad they were, but another shocking thing was how they seemed to be totally, and I mean totally oblivious to how bad their behaviour/vibe is and how badly it's affecting the girls. They seemed to think that what they're doing is awesome, the best thing ever. It looked like they do not evaluate what they're doing according to the results, impact on girls they've having, but instead according to some "we are the best" dogma.

My impression was that Julien is a weird, unpleasant guy, but Owen was much worse, to me he looked completely delusional.

Quote:I've met some seriously weird dudes from pickup forums, particularly daygamers. But RSD fanboys take weird to whole new heights.

Compare your "take weird to whole new heights" to what I wrote above. I really don't think it's coincidence that such "gurus" attract (perhaps also create?) that kind of fans.


Based on the last time I interacted with Julien and Owen, I can see the vibe you're trying to describe. I think a huge cause of the abrasive douchebag vibe is due to their ever increasing celebrity-guru status, the fact that they spend a great deal of time bossing underlings around due to their positions in their company, and the fact that they're immersed in the culture of Los Angeles. Those circumstances require them to not only be socially extraverted, but to also adopt the male version of a 'bitch shield.' Think - how would you need to conduct yourself if you were a celebrity getting approached multiple times a day by people asking for your autograph. You've mentioned that they seemed to "consider it cool and expected good reactions from women by doing this" and the reason for that is they *have* gotten good reactions from women by doing this, which leads them to habitually keep it up even when faced with girls who aren't giving them good reactions. It also doesn't help that these guys can just pick and choose from a wide array of attractive women from their high status social media anyway, which means that they couldn't care less about cold approach girls giving them a 'hard' time.

Of course, I can understand expecting more from so-called masters of social dynamics. I do still regard PIMP+Shift from Julien and Tyler's old stuff from way back in the day as stellar guides though. I wouldn't be surprised if their cold approach skills have gotten rusty due to the fact that

1. They don't even need cold approach anymore

2. These days they're focused much more on generic self help and spirituality than on teaching cold approach pickup

How long were you observing them and in what place did you run into them? I'm not surprised that there were girls reacting negatively, although you might have been focused a little too much on that part because of your possible overly high expectations. You also may be overemphasizing it in order to prove a point in your writing. In their defense... continuing to obliviously act like they were hot shit despite getting poor reactions is, at the very least, a better look for them than slinking away in defeat. It's very possible that they *were aware* that it was offputting, but that they've gotten to the point where they'd lazily just keep it up because they know they're getting laid with an attractive woman/women at the end of the night anyway.

Did you eventually see Owen and/or Julien get very positive reactions?
01-05-2019 09:40 AM
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Post: #185
RE: Who are the best to learn from in 2018?
Theres a lot of shit in this thread.

If you are starting and want to learn the basics then Tom Torero because he actually used to be a teacher and is able to actually impart knowledge to others. IOW, there is a big difference between knowing it and being able to teach others.

After the basics, when you are able to instruct yourself, Nick Krauser because he has developed it as a methodology.
01-05-2019 10:11 AM
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Post: #186
RE: Who are the best to learn from in 2018?
(01-05-2019 10:11 AM)remarkable vigour Wrote:  Tom Torero

Torerro's game style seems very specific to hitting on Forreign girls. It's kind of nuanced.
Plus he faked infields, so I can't really take him seriously anymore!

Personally I think RSD are OK, although i'm no 'fanboy'. Todd was probably the best and he's gone now.
Julien killed it, but, again, I really think it's partly based on location. His 'style' just fits the LA girls. Adopting his same extreme breaking rapport, rude style in most places just doesn't work.
I quite like Max, tbh. (although a large chunk of his results are down to being handsome. Anyone whose watched his premium product 'the natural' will know that lots of his lays are of a guy banging a girl who simply thinks he's handsome. Often getting opened by the girl, or at least getting a HUGE IOI/Approach invitation. It's much easier when you have passive attraction like that!)

I quite Like Vadeem over at 'honest Signals', personally.

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(This post was last modified: 01-05-2019 12:48 PM by subterfuge.)
01-05-2019 12:48 PM
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RE: Who are the best to learn from in 2018?
I really enjoy Jack Manley work. Might not be realistic however but his style works for me. Lots of eye contact, lot of having fun, and lots of open-ended questions.
01-05-2019 02:56 PM
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Post: #188
RE: Who are the best to learn from in 2018?
(01-01-2019 07:11 AM)Irish Wrote:  
Quote:I'm a wedding photographer by trade. I see many men punching way above their weight; gorgeous women who are hard 8s and soft 9s marrying 6s and 7s. Of course I'm not talking about fat, balding men marrying supermodels - no, simply very average-looking men marrying beautiful women, and I see this a lot more than the inverse. It should give the average-looking man much hope. It also has nothing to do with "beta bucks".

The problem with this is that you're employing the same criteria to rating women (which is almost entirely based on physical appearance) to the men. Although physical appearance is a factor, it lags behind other factors such as relative status, game, wealth etc. A lot of which you would never be able to tell just from looking at the dude or even interacting with him briefly.

I think his point was simply that as an average-looking man you are not destined to end up with a female 5, that you can marry up looks wise to a significant extent. Not to deny that there are other factors at play (although he did seem to suggest that 'beta-bucks' are never a factor, which I disagree with).

Personally I find this very encouraging. I'm never going to physically be a male 9, probably not even an 8, without some extensive surgery - something I'd never consider. But status, game and wealth are achievable with a sufficient work ethic. It's useful to be reminded of this, especially in the era of dating apps where it can appear that a man's SMV is derived from his looks alone.
01-05-2019 06:47 PM
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Post: #189
RE: Who are the best to learn from in 2018?
(01-05-2019 02:56 PM)Donfitz007 Wrote:  I really enjoy Jack Manley work. Might not be realistic however but his style works for me. Lots of eye contact, lot of having fun, and lots of open-ended questions.

I mentioned him recently in the thread about some other youtuber. Very good eye contact, and an instinct for when he can escalate. I bet he gets some quality IRL.
01-06-2019 01:38 AM
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Post: #190
RE: Who are the best to learn from in 2018?
(01-06-2019 01:38 AM)Kieran Wrote:  
(01-05-2019 02:56 PM)Donfitz007 Wrote:  I really enjoy Jack Manley work. Might not be realistic however but his style works for me. Lots of eye contact, lot of having fun, and lots of open-ended questions.

I mentioned him recently in the thread about some other youtuber. Very good eye contact, and an instinct for when he can escalate. I bet he gets some quality IRL.





I went to the mall today and asked girls this question and had decent results! Nowhere near the results he had but had a great time nonetheless.

Honesty thought his stuff was fake but now that I've tried it my self I'm sure with better eye contact and body language I could get similar reactions.
01-06-2019 02:03 AM
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Post: #191
RE: Who are the best to learn from in 2018?
MathGuy, I think you're trying to interpret my experiences in such a way, that despite what I saw, these guys are still genuinely good with women. My impression, my interpretation is however different - I don't think they are genuine, I think their "skills" is just marketing.

BTW:

1. Many other people had similiar experiences and impressions about the RSD.

2. In general, it's a very common thing in the PUA community. I mean a situation, in which "seduction experts", when met in real life, appear to be much worse than the image creating by their marketing would indicate.


Quote:You've mentioned that they seemed to "consider it cool and expected good reactions from women by doing this" and the reason for that is they *have* gotten good reactions from women by doing this, which leads them to habitually keep it up even when faced with girls who aren't giving them good reactions.

I see a certain problem with this.

1. The RSD's message portrays these people as some kind of experts, masters of seduction, etc.

2. From what I have seen, my impression is that they seem to be crude, clumsy mass aproachers, doing "numbers game" and being less skilled than many other people.

3. Getting some good reactions, even getting laid sometimes doesn't mean there's no giant chasm between 1 and 2.

BTW I've heard other people accuse RSD of being mass aproachers with little actual skill, as well as of brainwashing fans with a agressive "we are the best!" hype/propaganda.

Quote:"I wouldn't be surprised if their cold approach skills have gotten rusty due to the fact that

1. They don't even need cold approach anymore

2. These days they're focused much more on generic self help and spirituality than on teaching cold approach pickup"

I don't know about this, I don't track their lifestyle, but in the case of both of them, I've met them many years ago.

Quote:How long were you observing them and in what place did you run into them?

There are reasons for which I do not want to go into details, but I can say that I've observed Owen for a few hours, but in the case of Julien, it was a few times as much, spread over a few days.

Quote:I'm not surprised that there were girls reacting negatively, although you might have been focused a little too much on that part because of your possible overly high expectations.

No, my expectations were not overly high. Some people told me before that they think RSD are just mass aproachers doing number game on not necessarily hot girls and that was my expectation before meeting Owen.
But even with such expectation in my mind, I expected something much better than I got to see. Owen has literally blown my mind in a negative way. I expected him to be mediocre, but my actual impression was that he was way below mediocre, that he was literally retarded.

Also, as for "overly" high expectations, I know many people who are better at this than them, myself included. Which might sound like a huge boast to people who believe in RSD, but I don't see it that way at all, for me it's being better than socially and emotionally dysfunctional people.

Quote:You also may be overemphasizing it in order to prove a point in your writing./quote]

No, I'm not - they acted like weird douchebags and the girls treated them accordingly. It was less severe in case of Julien and the effect was certainly lessened by his looks, but in the case of Owen...OMG. Girls had literally a "get away from me, retard" look on their faces.

[quote]
Did you eventually see Owen and/or Julien get very positive reactions?

Julien did get positive reactions inititally, but the situation was getting worse when he was doing more and more abrasive jokes and statements. It was quite obvious he was getting positive reactions from his looks, but then he was ruining that by acting weird/abrasive. So despite the propaganda about how looks don't matter, it were his looks that were working for him, while his "skills" and "game" had a negative, not positive impact.

As for Owen, I haven't seen him get even a slighest hint of a girl being interested in him as a man. The route of his interactions was:

"What does this guy want?" -> "Leave me alone, creep"
(This post was last modified: 01-07-2019 04:10 AM by CharmingPsychopath.)
01-07-2019 04:08 AM
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remarkable vigour Offline
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Post: #192
RE: Who are the best to learn from in 2018?
(01-05-2019 10:11 AM)remarkable vigour Wrote:  Tom Torero
Quote:Torerro's game style seems very specific to hitting on Forreign girls. It's kind of nuanced.

No, works on plenty of UK and SEA girls for me.

Remember Im talking about the basics here which are pretty much universal.

Quote:Plus he faked infields, so I can't really take him seriously anymore!

Thats true but again, I am only talking about the basics here. However, Torero is a qualified teacher and very good at getting the basics across in ways that Steve Jabba for example, or the RSD guys simply don't.

Jabba is a good looking guy and RSD is a load of old cockwaffle with precious little content.
01-07-2019 07:04 AM
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corsega Offline
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Post: #193
RE: Who are the best to learn from in 2018?
(01-06-2019 02:03 AM)Donfitz007 Wrote:  
(01-06-2019 01:38 AM)Kieran Wrote:  
(01-05-2019 02:56 PM)Donfitz007 Wrote:  I really enjoy Jack Manley work. Might not be realistic however but his style works for me. Lots of eye contact, lot of having fun, and lots of open-ended questions.

I mentioned him recently in the thread about some other youtuber. Very good eye contact, and an instinct for when he can escalate. I bet he gets some quality IRL.





I went to the mall today and asked girls this question and had decent results! Nowhere near the results he had but had a great time nonetheless.

Honesty thought his stuff was fake but now that I've tried it my self I'm sure with better eye contact and body language I could get similar reactions.

"with better eye contact and body language and a giant camera with a big flash in my face I could get similar reactions."

Fixed it for you. This is pure status halo.

My blog - skeptical, data-driven takes on daygame, online game, and more
(This post was last modified: 01-07-2019 07:42 PM by corsega.)
01-07-2019 07:42 PM
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Kieran Offline
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Post: #194
RE: Who are the best to learn from in 2018?
You don't think he'd do well with girls without the camera?
01-08-2019 04:44 AM
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remarkable vigour Offline
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Post: #195
RE: Who are the best to learn from in 2018?
(01-08-2019 04:44 AM)Kieran Wrote:  You don't think he'd do well with girls without the camera?

He would not do AS well.

The camera crew gives him instant status.
01-08-2019 07:57 AM
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Irish Offline
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Post: #196
RE: Who are the best to learn from in 2018?
with microphone as well

instant enormous attention whoring opportunity for chicks. Add in that they probably think they'll get instagram tagged for big follower/like boost and i'm sure they'll be up for anything...

But for sure he does need to have some confidence and game to pull this off (and he does), but also can leverage the camera, mic and (perceived) TV show status to help supercharge his results.

I can't see your average daygame aspie doing anywhere nearly as well with the same set up for example. In fact, if anything it would probably just supercharge their creepiness...

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01-08-2019 08:27 AM
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Kieran Offline
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Post: #197
RE: Who are the best to learn from in 2018?
Lots of other youtubers that make these videos don't have anything like the same results (for example the simple sexy stupid guy). He has game and there's plenty to learn from him. He has a good strong frame, sexualises interactions early, really good eye contact, escalates quickly as soon as there's an opportunity. Of course the camera set up and his looks help, but I've got no doubt he'd do very well even without the camera and any internet fame.
01-08-2019 11:11 AM
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Sourcecode Offline
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Post: #198
RE: Who are the best to learn from in 2018?
I saw Tyler in person a couple years back and it looked like a charade

He did absolutely horrible in buckhead club venues.

But when he went outside he had 2 or three dudes with cameras following him... It sparked the attention of some of the girls in the area.

I'm pretty sure this was after one of his conferences cause there was a small gang of white and Indian dudes thing to watch him.

He pulled two girls while outside...they were definitely only curious because the cameras were around.
Outside of that... I was not impressed
[Image: xE9aAHr.jpg]
[Image: UUjWOeam.jpg]

I am the cock carousel
(This post was last modified: 01-08-2019 03:23 PM by Sourcecode.)
01-08-2019 03:15 PM
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corsega Offline
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Post: #199
RE: Who are the best to learn from in 2018?
(01-08-2019 03:15 PM)Sourcecode Wrote:  I saw Tyler in person a couple years back and it looked like a charade

He did absolutely horrible in buckhead club venues.

But when he went outside he had 2 or three dudes with cameras following him... It sparked the attention of some of the girls in the area.

I'm pretty sure this was after one of his conferences cause there was a small gang of white and Indian dudes thing to watch him.

He pulled two girls while outside...they were definitely only curious because the cameras were around.
Outside of that... I was not impressed
[Image: xE9aAHr.jpg]
[Image: UUjWOeam.jpg]

Word.

This industry is mostly marketing, smoke, and mirrors. Sad how many guys are being duped.

https://strengthbysonny.com/2015/09/06/t...ld-videos/

"Fake" is a strong word, but there's definitely a lot of bullshittery going on.

My blog - skeptical, data-driven takes on daygame, online game, and more
(This post was last modified: 01-08-2019 03:49 PM by corsega.)
01-08-2019 03:49 PM
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GT777733 Offline
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Post: #200
RE: Who are the best to learn from in 2018?
(12-31-2018 07:52 PM)corsega Wrote:  [quote='GT777733' pid='1913524' dateline='1546301742']
@CharmingPsychopath - you are generally right about everything you are saying. Especially RSD.

It's not worth arguing it or discussing it with some people though.

Guys involved in the pickup industry (students, coaches and those in the community) don't want to see the industry and the people involved in it for what it is until they are ready to see it

*Don't confuse this with me saying the pickup industry should not exist. What I am saying is that it is marketed, communicated and sold in completely the wrong way - and beginners or guys that don't know any better tend to get the wrong idea, develop a guru complex about the guys on YouTube teaching it (without knowing these guys' pasts or knowing what their day to day lives actually look like - pro tip: completely different to what they show you and tell you in their videos in 99.9% of cases), tend to get stuck in it and begin to think it can deliver them something it can't.

Of course he's generally right. Guru complex, false gods, fake infields, blah, blah, blah. Anyone with an above-average IQ and red pill awareness knows this about the pickup industry.

Yet he's provided no alternatives for TEACHERS. Individuals who are experts in their chosen fields, and good enough at pedagogy to inspire learning.

I stand by my recommendations. If someone else can recommend someone who they think is better at teaching (operative word here) the disciplines I listed out, please let me know and I will check them out.

-------------------

I gave a pretty good run down of what guys can do on page 2 of this thread

I'd never recommend an online course or product

Spend the time watching a very broad range of the free content on YouTube - zero in on the videos and teachers that have practical or real life advice you can apply (filter out all the marketing and hype videos). Monitor your time and attention on this carefully.

Spend a lot of time going out and getting first hand experience - this is the most important part while you are in the pickup phase (it should be exactly that - just a phase - kind of like a college education - you do it for a few years, and you're out after that)

Once you hit a plateau (you will - because you only have so much time and you will hit the plateau usually of 6's and 7's mostly) - consider going and doing an immersion somewhere like Vegas or in a big European city (not 100% necessary, but it could probably show you and teach you things you wouldn't have learned if you were just doing pickup regularly with friends or by yourself - do note though - immersion is an artificial environment that is unsustainable long term - it's more a teaching tool), and also go travel to different countries to see if you get different results anywhere else

At this point, get out of pickup completely.

Go build out other areas of your life like money, career, health etc., and build real life friends and connections (but you will have a good base understanding of attraction, dating and social dynamics too)

This will give you a balance of short term and long term strategy.

Once you have your life sorted, consider doing something bigger than yourself for other people or for society - this is the next level beyond girls, travel, and things centred all around you.

I also recommend guys watch/read up on red and black pill material - Roosh is obviously a good one for this

If you do an immersion - consider doing it with a company you feel has your best interests first, or someone you feel you got value from by watching their material

If you feel you got value from Roosh's material and this forum - consider buying a book or book/s

^^^Pickup, red pill, black pill, MGTOW - all this stuff should be treated like an arrow in your arrow pouch. You get into it, become aware of the concepts, and have them to deploy in your life in the future - without getting too immersed or mentally caught up in any one of them. None of them are a final answer.

You ultimately need to balance all this online stuff and all these concepts with living a real and natural life.

- This answer is missing a lot, but it encapsulates a lot too.
(This post was last modified: 01-08-2019 09:54 PM by GT777733.)
01-08-2019 09:30 PM
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