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Dude approaches 1000 women and gets 0 lays
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Penta Sahi Offline
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Post: #126
RE: Dude approaches 1000 women and gets 0 lays
(11-25-2018 02:29 PM)Ferrari Wrote:  This dude documented how many girls he approached from 0-1000 and got 0 lays.

I know this is a numbers game but thats some fucked up numbers if you approach 1000 females and get 0 lays.

XxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXx

Here is recordings of 2 of his approaches

That forum is the worst kind of poisonous evil that a man can find on the internet. It's basically just a bunch of fuckwads that have given up. Links to that place on RVF should automatically be scrubbed.
12-28-2018 12:05 AM
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BaatumMania Offline
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Post: #127
RE: Dude approaches 1000 women and gets 0 lays
(12-27-2018 05:48 PM)Heuristics Wrote:  
(12-27-2018 01:09 AM)moneyshot Wrote:  Wow. Was not expecting to see a guy who is objectively a LOSER in mindset AND in "status" engender such heated debate.

My first thought is this–after x number of rejections with zero success, you gotta change something up, take a different tack in some way or another.
You can't control the girl you're approaching. You can't force her to like you–that's the kind of stuff that, in theory, the genuine MeToo-type cases are addressing, and that Western culture takes to the extreme in criminalizing so many male-initiated interactions with females that don't end perfectly in the girls' minds.
So if you can't change her, you have to change you. And keep at it until you find something that works for you, and even THEN keep growing your game repertoire while using what works for you to keep your confidence up so you can weather rejections more easily and not get into the complete loser mindset that 1K-Rejection Guy has.

I'll add that I'm not exactly practicing IRL what I'm preaching here. I'm jobless, overweight, and I do hardly any approaching to begin with because I don't change what I'm doing to improve my chances of success on the SMP. I recognize all this, but don't put into action any change.
Still, despite the temptation to default to a mindset of "jesus christ I hit up a THOUSAND WOMEN and they all shot me down mostly early on in the interaction therefore they all must be fucking awful people", I don't hate women. What I hate is reading about/listening to/watching people bitch about their lack of success in some form of activity while not having the maturity or just plain intelligence to realize it's not the outside world's job to accommodate to their visions of their life should be, it's their own job to adapt to what life throws at them, good and bad.
I mean, at some point, isn't it just a question of willpower? That you have to just buck up and DO IT whether you want to or not? That's what I think 1K Guy doesn't get re: changing his approach.

Money, what's stopping you? What will it take for you to execute? I was in the same boat nearly a year ago, but I had a realization that I would have to improve, that is, I could get all the advise in the world from people that cared, but I would have to execute in order to make myself a better person and increase my SMV.

The forum is a great resource but it seems like many guys over-rely on it while not executing on some of the good, free, sound advise offered here.

If anything it's easier to get laid as an unemployed guy. As a successful guy I have to worry about impregnating women and getting milked for child support. If I was a broke MOFO I would be going in balls deep on any bish who showed the slightest of interest.
12-29-2018 01:33 AM
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evilstifler Offline
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Post: #128
RE: Dude approaches 1000 women and gets 0 lays
I followed that guy and was quite surprised that he screwed this up so badly (I could not image approaching 1000 women without getting better, now I know better...), the idea was good but he failed so hard with the execution.You literally could see how bitter he got and how he was in the downspiral of being complete uncalibrated and being an social autist, everyone can go up to a woman and put your angry shit on her nor that does not create attraction (as a women I would prefer to be approached from a beggar then such a imbecile). He still got pride walking up to women and actually harass them with his uncalibrated shit. I strongly advice to approach each women you see and like on the street but learn from the reaction, my best opener is Hand of God, the rate of 90% "I have a boyfriend" reaction reduced it to lower than 30%, I really paid my dues (took Impro classes, Comfort Zone Challenges.....) and went through my learning curves......at least this Incel proved it is not a numbers game for losers
12-30-2018 07:54 AM
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Post: #129
RE: Dude approaches 1000 women and gets 0 lays
(12-30-2018 07:54 AM)evilstifler Wrote:  I followed that guy and was quite surprised that he screwed this up so badly (I could not image approaching 1000 women without getting better, now I know better...), the idea was good but he failed so hard with the execution.You literally could see how bitter he got and how he was in the downspiral of being complete uncalibrated and being an social autist, everyone can go up to a woman and put your angry shit on her nor that does not create attraction (as a women I would prefer to be approached from a beggar then such a imbecile). He still got pride walking up to women and actually harass them with his uncalibrated shit. I strongly advice to approach each women you see and like on the street but learn from the reaction, my best opener is Hand of God, the rate of 90% "I have a boyfriend" reaction reduced it to lower than 30%, I really paid my dues (took Impro classes, Comfort Zone Challenges.....) and went through my learning curves......at least this Incel proved it is not a numbers game for losers

Hi EvilStifler, nice to hear your opinion here. You should write more about pickup and do videos on it.
12-30-2018 09:28 PM
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corsega Offline
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Post: #130
RE: Dude approaches 1000 women and gets 0 lays
(12-30-2018 07:54 AM)evilstifler Wrote:  I followed that guy and was quite surprised that he screwed this up so badly (I could not image approaching 1000 women without getting better, now I know better...), the idea was good but he failed so hard with the execution.You literally could see how bitter he got and how he was in the downspiral of being complete uncalibrated and being an social autist, everyone can go up to a woman and put your angry shit on her nor that does not create attraction (as a women I would prefer to be approached from a beggar then such a imbecile). He still got pride walking up to women and actually harass them with his uncalibrated shit. I strongly advice to approach each women you see and like on the street but learn from the reaction, my best opener is Hand of God, the rate of 90% "I have a boyfriend" reaction reduced it to lower than 30%, I really paid my dues (took Impro classes, Comfort Zone Challenges.....) and went through my learning curves......at least this Incel proved it is not a numbers game for losers

Whoa, Evil Stifler joins Roosh randomly in December 2018? You planning anything as far as coaching, etc.?

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12-31-2018 01:29 AM
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loremipsum Offline
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Post: #131
RE: Dude approaches 1000 women and gets 0 lays
The market is getting worse and worse there is no denying it.

This guy however would have done as bad in the earlier ages.
You can just see that the reason he even did those 1000 approaches was to prove himself right, which with the attitude he had was a self fulfilling prophecy.
12-31-2018 03:35 AM
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Excalibur Offline
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Post: #132
RE: Dude approaches 1000 women and gets 0 lays
I always have sympathy for guys who failed miserably. Perhaps its because I know what it feels like to have no friends, no pussy. For every one guys who slam this guy for making 1000 approaches and got no lays, there are 2-3 guys lurking who are struggling to get laid but are too afraid to speak up.

I am fortunate to come out of this cold approach journey a better person with amazing experience with women. Looking back though there were many things that I could have done differently to minimize my struggle, disappointment, misery.

Here are my thoughts:

- Take a cold hard look at yourself. Are you the type of guy that the girls you approach will want to f-ck, date? Be brutally honest. If not then you better put more effort into self improvement than random approaches. OR, change the demographic of the girls you approach.

There are these 5'3", skinny fat, Asians with no friends who are spamming the mall approaching 19 y/o sorority girl, wanna be actresses. batting 0/1000 is not too surprising.

Figure out the subculture that fits you the best that is also attractive to girls. Match your style accordingly. You can be a 5'4" fly weight tattooed MMA fighter and get a lot of pussy.

Some guys have so many cards against them that it's not even worth it to cold approach. One short Japanese guy I know just saved up and move to Philipines. He lived there for 2 years, got laid a bunch, found a wife, and moved back to US.

There is nothing, nothing wrong with not being able to cold approach and get laid a ton. Literally trillions of man in the history of human race only f-cked 1 girl in their life time and ended up living a long, happy, productive life.

- Confidence. The best way to build confidence is through success. Be very careful with "the numbers game". Too many rejection will kill your vibe. For us intermediate guys who have couple of dozen of cold approach lays, when we approach a girl similar to some girls we have f-cked in the past, we are fairly relaxed and confident. And if the girl is normal, then the interaction usually goes well. Normal, chill, heterosexual girl who is not in a relationship and can see you as a potential BF, sexual partner WILL make the conversation easy for you. Sometimes they are shy, or have a "bitch shield", these are the ones you can practice "game" a little. Have a lot of these approaches builds confidence. Approaching a lot of girls out of your league with instant rejection kills your confidence and vibe. I am not saying you should not approach super hotties, but you just cannot have a string of rejection. You need some predictable success to build confidence.

- Depression, anxiety, Aspergers, zero social skill. Sadly, many guys who look up the pick-up community have these challenges. Especially among the day gamers. Many day gamers don't have cool guy friends that they can hang with and go hit the bars and clubs so they troll the mall alone. I shed a tear for them. When my best friend got married, for a while I was trolling the mall by myself too. It's a tough lonely feeling especially when you don't know if you gonna get laid. Social skills can be improved on. The other psychological issues are tough. When you are so anxious, cannot hold eye contact and relax talking to girls, unless you are damn good looking, it's gonna be tough to get laid. Also the depressed guys. They are such energy sink. Why would any girls want to be with them. Hopefully these guys can sort themselves out. Cold approach might even be bad for them as repeated failure will worsen their resentment for their lack of happiness and success.

In conclusion, for those who are struggling really hard, maybe cold approaching is not for you. Not right now anyway. Fix other areas of your life. You can still approach once in a while, but just not mass spam rejection, Or try a different demographic of girls. Any if you never succeed in cold approach, know that you are in the company of 99% of the man in the world who have never got laid through cold approach Smile
12-31-2018 12:30 PM
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Gameplan Offline
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Post: #133
RE: Dude approaches 1000 women and gets 0 lays
As a teenager I was skinny, introverted guy with low confidence and social skills. I turned around by:

1. Working out

Physical activity is proven to improve your mood and reduce depression. Actually one of the best things for it according to research. (The fact that so many people are on these toxic pharmaceuticals is insane, but that's another rant). Boosts your testosterone too. Watching my body and strength improve, and beginning to see myself as attractive has been an incredibly fulfilling and profitable journey.

2. Working out social muscles

I made an effort to start talking to people everywhere I go. Store clerks, waiters, random people in the street, etc, just shooting the shit and going beyond the minimum necessary interaction. If someone is trying to approach women, with all the pressure and anxiety that can come with that, before even having basic conversational skills, they're trying to run before they can even crawl. Watching good comedians also helps a lot. Learning basic story telling, delivery, tonality, pacing, etc etc will make you a better conversationalist.
12-31-2018 01:21 PM
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Subtext Offline
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Post: #134
RE: Dude approaches 1000 women and gets 0 lays
(12-31-2018 01:21 PM)Gameplan Wrote:  As a teenager I was skinny, introverted guy with low confidence and social skills. I turned around by:

1. Working out

Physical activity is proven to improve your mood and reduce depression. Actually one of the best things for it according to research. (The fact that so many people are on these toxic pharmaceuticals is insane, but that's another rant). Boosts your testosterone too. Watching my body and strength improve, and beginning to see myself as attractive has been an incredibly fulfilling and profitable journey.

2. Working out social muscles

I made an effort to start talking to people everywhere I go. Store clerks, waiters, random people in the street, etc, just shooting the shit and going beyond the minimum necessary interaction. If someone is trying to approach women, with all the pressure and anxiety that can come with that, before even having basic conversational skills, they're trying to run before they can even crawl. Watching good comedians also helps a lot. Learning basic story telling, delivery, tonality, pacing, etc etc will make you a better conversationalist.


What comedians do you recommend? I immediately thought of Jerry Seinfeld and George Carlin.
12-31-2018 07:53 PM
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Post: #135
RE: Dude approaches 1000 women and gets 0 lays
(12-31-2018 07:53 PM)Subtext Wrote:  
(12-31-2018 01:21 PM)Gameplan Wrote:  As a teenager I was skinny, introverted guy with low confidence and social skills. I turned around by:

1. Working out

Physical activity is proven to improve your mood and reduce depression. Actually one of the best things for it according to research. (The fact that so many people are on these toxic pharmaceuticals is insane, but that's another rant). Boosts your testosterone too. Watching my body and strength improve, and beginning to see myself as attractive has been an incredibly fulfilling and profitable journey.

2. Working out social muscles

I made an effort to start talking to people everywhere I go. Store clerks, waiters, random people in the street, etc, just shooting the shit and going beyond the minimum necessary interaction. If someone is trying to approach women, with all the pressure and anxiety that can come with that, before even having basic conversational skills, they're trying to run before they can even crawl. Watching good comedians also helps a lot. Learning basic story telling, delivery, tonality, pacing, etc etc will make you a better conversationalist.


What comedians do you recommend? I immediately thought of Jerry Seinfeld and George Carlin.

Norm McDonald is amazing for comedic timing.

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12-31-2018 07:55 PM
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Post: #136
RE: Dude approaches 1000 women and gets 0 lays
I feel the old Will Smith (fresh prince) works.
12-31-2018 09:47 PM
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Post: #137
RE: Dude approaches 1000 women and gets 0 lays
(12-31-2018 09:47 PM)Donfitz007 Wrote:  I feel the old Will Smith (fresh prince) works.

That's funny I was watching his pickup line compilations earlier today. That shit is gold for putting yourself in the right mindset







12-31-2018 10:00 PM
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SaintLaurentJake Offline
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Post: #138
RE: Dude approaches 1000 women and gets 0 lays
The problem with incels is most of them especially those who are dedicated and post often to these forums is they have already given up hope. They expect women to just fall for them when they don't try to improve themselves. We want and expect our women to take care of themselves, the same principles should be applied to ourselves. Hence why ugly girls are mostly feminists, they expect the same thing incels do, attractive people of the opposite sex to fall for them...
12-31-2018 11:41 PM
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captain_shane Offline
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Post: #139
RE: Dude approaches 1000 women and gets 0 lays
I hope this guy kills himself before he chooses to kill other people. Sad as it is to say that, but this guy clearly hates women and going up to a thousand of them with his approach will just reinforce his hate.

Thoughts lead to actions, and this is what black pilling leads to. You are what you think.
12-31-2018 11:52 PM
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Lovinglife Offline
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Post: #140
RE: Dude approaches 1000 women and gets 0 lays
I found the best game changer was when I bought a security camera system for my house and watched the way I moved around my house and interact with people in my home, specially when I had parties (get your friends to record you when you go out is another option). You never know how you come across to people unless you see it on camera. I had to spend a lot of time fixing my body language up, stop laughing with friends when it wasn't called for, fix the tone of my voice up (I was changing to a feminine tone due to working in customer service when I was younger), move at a slower pace, etc...

Remember, women are always watching you. If you display beta qualities, it will kill interest and she will look at another man. It takes a bit of work to display alpha qualities 24/7 in a society that pushes you to be gay (feminine).

Try to stay away from TV/movies and computer games, they create "geek" qualities that scare women away! Get outside more and be around people in order master your social skills. Once you master your social skills, you won't scare women away. Like all skills, you only have to master for them once. Keep talking to women until you are comfortable. When you are comfortable, they will be comfortable to answer the phone when you call or sms.
(This post was last modified: 04-18-2019 10:55 PM by Lovinglife.)
04-18-2019 10:42 PM
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RE: Dude approaches 1000 women and gets 0 lays
Ha apparently the dude got banned from even the incel forum for being full of shit to the surprise of nobody

https://incels.co/threads/i-was-banned-f...ds.112230/
04-19-2019 12:27 AM
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Brother Abdul Majeed Offline
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Post: #142
RE: Dude approaches 1000 women and gets 0 lays
(04-19-2019 12:27 AM)Repo Wrote:  Ha apparently the dude got banned from even the incel forum for being full of shit to the surprise of nobody

That's like getting kicked out of the leper colony. There's nowhere to go after that.
In all seriousness though, I did browse through their forum, it left me feeling very sad. Young men are in rough shape these days.
04-19-2019 09:31 AM
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debeguiled Offline
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RE: Dude approaches 1000 women and gets 0 lays
(04-19-2019 09:31 AM)Brother Abdul Majeed Wrote:  
(04-19-2019 12:27 AM)Repo Wrote:  Ha apparently the dude got banned from even the incel forum for being full of shit to the surprise of nobody

That's like getting kicked out of the leper colony. There's nowhere to go after that.
In all seriousness though, I did browse through their forum, it left me feeling very sad. Young men are in rough shape these days.

There have always been incels, it's just in the past, it didn't get rubbed in their faces constantly, they just pretended they had a girlfriend at another school, and they certainly didn't take solace in defining themselves as such.

The only person who would keep reminding you that you never got any would have been your sister, not random strangers on the internet.

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04-19-2019 10:34 AM
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SlutMaker Offline
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Post: #144
RE: Dude approaches 1000 women and gets 0 lays
A good reminder that anger only destroys. Due to his anger, he will suffer.
04-19-2019 08:50 PM
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RE: Dude approaches 1000 women and gets 0 lays
I commented on this thread a while ago but I feel like I have another few cents to give.

As a one-time incel I know how much these guys are suffering.

When you are trapped inside your own mind like a mental prison like this, escaping is excruciatingly difficult.

I wasn’t familiar with the term incel when I was at that age and certainly wasn’t venting all this vitriol in public forums besides.

But I know very well what it is like to be inside the heart of darkness in the specific way incels are. Many people face horrible challenges or experiences in early life. This one is very particular and misunderstood.

There is a good reason certain men end up being virgins until age 25 and beyond. If you look at a man who calls himself an incel and is in his early or mid twenties or beyond, probably he was a bit like I was.

Off the top of my head:

- Terrible time throughout school. Bottom of the pecking order. Had a horrible resentful attitude towards other kids yet a burning yearning to be accepted by them. What Jordan Peterson would dub ‘bottom lobster’ and all the fucked up serotonin levels that entails
- Would probably score very highly in neuroticism. Extreme sensitivity to negative emotion. Again, related to being ‘bottom lobster’ as your body is viewing social exclusion as being a threat to your life. And this never truly evaporates.
- If you scored low in compassion additionally then in extreme cases you have outliers like Elliot Rodger who had no empathy for anyone. Luckily I am quite high in this trait.
- Highly introverted nature to begin with and easily drained by human interactions (which are often negative and reinforce this). Avoidance of human interaction leading to underdeveloped social skills
- Related. Spent a LOT of time in his own company whether at school or at home overindulging in video games. During a time or window(s) when your brain’s social skill abilities are meant to develop to maturity
- Terrible terrible TERRIBLE style and dress sense. A result of being out of the social loop and ignorance. Poor posture reinforced by lack of confidence learned over the years. The kind of guy both men and women avoid at university, the period your parents tell you will be ‘different’ from school. SMV of a 3 or 4. I would have given myself a 4.5 to be generous because I was not fat but actually quite ripped.
- Depression and anxiety as others as mentioned. This was something that although a moderate to seldom a large problem in my teenage years slowly self-corrected in my early 20s due to competing in powerlifting and doing martial arts (as well as escaping from school). I think a lot of incel issues could be fixed with a punch to the face at a muay thai class or a single tap-out on a bjj matt.
- Mental illness such as aspergers, again as mentioned by others. I consider myself very lucky I don’t have any of these. This I think would have made any kind of success impossible for me personally.
- Lack of natural looks and good genetics. I used to refer to myself in my head as ‘genetic trash’ and until age 25 gave up entirely on women. The combination of being 5’7, puny in stature, balding beyond fixing by age 22 with a very weak jawline (the incel jaw you could say) combined with virtually nothing but negative interactions and feedback from women made me genuinely believe this. When I think about it, it is a sheer miracle I somehow turned shit around.
- A stream of negative experiences with women. At school this entailed being ignored and even mocked by the girls. At university this meant watching all the cute girls you desired being monopolised by chads. But worst of all was this highly toxic nightlife culture. I don’t know how many 100 negative interactions and rejections I faced at night clubs throughout my young adulthood but the consistent momentum of bad experiences caused my subconscious to believe I had no chance at all. And for a time, a burning hatred of young women.

I actually consider myself very lucky these days.

Not just because I managed to enjoy some success over the years.

But because I didn’t have even worse issues that no doubt a lot of these incels on that forum clearly have.

For example, a home life as poor as their school/university life. I had very good parents and have always had an excellent relationship with my mother. Often times I wondered if my disappointment with women I meet was caused by the realisation they don’t compare at all to her. Maybe it was a strong driver for me to go abroad to meet women as well.

And don’t get me started on mental illnesses. I feel the most sympathy for them as I said.

The good news and truth is, all it takes is one success to cease being an incel forever.

I give male virgins a pass for considering themselves as such. If they are 20something and have no positive reference experiences to ‘change their mind’ that they not genetic garbage incapable of ever sleeping with a woman I understand. As I said that was me.

But once you get that first success it all changes. Because you now know for the rest of your existence, you can do it.

Besides that the only other instances I would give you a free pass to consider yourself an incel is if

- You are mentally disabled. Aspergers, autism etc.
- Burn victim or severely disfigured. Wheelchair bound.

And that’s about it!!

You might be wondering how did I, the ‘incel’ switch things around and have a notch count of 35 by the age of 30 in 2019?
Well obviously I read about game from countless sources and rejoiced in the knowledge that if 99 girls reject you out of 100, this is normal and to be expected.

Indeed even the very best such as Krauser, Good Looking Loser and Paul Jenka failed to bang 93% or something of the women they approach.

But aside from all that.

How I fixed it:

- I managed to get on top of my anger. This is the most important and the one I believe most incels struggle with the most. That guy who approached 1000 girls and got 0 results already decided that was going to happen. Anger is a severe form of pain and suffering and I really hope these guys find a way to cool it as I once did.
- Taking part in some kind of competitive sports as I mentioned I think would help a lot. A lot of these guys have never had a physical confrontation in their life and probably have severe delusions of grandeur. Getting ragdolled on a wrestling matt will fix that very fast.
- One thing to note is that unlike MOST incels, I did try to get laid. But only at nightclubs as this is what my very small group of friends liked to do at the time. And of course I was so unattractive I couldn’t even get dates with 3s and 4s from plenty of fish at the time. I estimate I drunkenly approached 500 plus slags at clubs over the years not getting even a single make-out or positive interaction. Not too hard to believe given what a Darwinian, savage environment clubs can be, especially when you are a male ‘3 or 4.’ I would say this is the number 1 reason I ended up harbouring such misogynistic feelings in my early 20s.
- I would say to incels and indeed most guys who are having horrible times at clubs – stop going to them! There are better ways to meet women (shitty sexual marketplace aside). Ceasing torturing myself by going to clubs trying to run mystery method game with bad style and dress in a year where that style of game was long out-dated played a huge part in the gradual evaporation of my anger toward women.
- Killing porn addiction. Most incels are (I would guess) porn addicts. A direct result of idle hands and determination to avoid rejection no doubt. As well as a lack of sex obviously. I had this issue big time. Getting rid of this addiction is EXTREMELY difficult. Conquering it was probably my greatest achievement in life up to that point aside from passing my masters degree.
- One way you could do it which I did (whilst following no-fap) if you are financially ABLE! And if it is LEGAL! Is visit escorts. For all its faults, the one thing the UK does right is it legalises prostitution. For £100-120/hour assuming you visit a social proofed ‘working girl’ will get you a ‘GFE’ girlfriend experience. The girl will treat you like a prince. You will lose your virginity which will be a huge weight off the shoulders. And you will be able to gauge your progress with performance. The first few times I did it I couldn’t get it up at all. But over the course of a year (during which I transitioned from university into a reasonably well-paid offshore gas job) I saw many girls, some of whom were 9s and 10s and hotter than the hottest girls I ever managed to get from day game or tinder (and who treated better than any girl you will meet will) and my porn problem was permanently solved. It served its purpose well. Otherwise, just summon your inner strength and no-fap as many have successfully pulled off here.

And the day of retribution (a little different to Elliot Rodger’s lol)

I took the chance on the idea that ‘women abroad are different or better.’ 5 years ago, I remember so clearly the night it all ended. I had read Bang Poland and often joked with my flatmate about how one day I might consider it. I would have joked about that idea a couple of years prior. I had a string of bad dates with 3s and 4s from plenty of fish. Then that one blonde bitch at that bar flipped me the bird when I tried to talk to her. I booked my flight to Poland that same evening.

And I kept visiting Poland on and off ever since.

I had my first girlfriend who I met during that first trip which lasted over a 1.5 year period. It started off with a bang and ended with one too (a different kind of bang). I learned so much about women, relationships and what I am willing to accept or not in the future.

When that ended my red pill journey entered a new phase. I felt empowered for the first time to take day-game seriously. Previously I had done it only intermittently and always preferred it as it is a great way to have consistent positive interactions with women if nothing else.

I approached religiously. I spam approached a lot and often felt foolish about it but accepted the fact that as a beginner it perhaps was the best thing I could be doing. I knew that gaining experience from day game is a bit like a facebook pixel gathering data for a sales website. When you have bad interactions, its like Roosh compared it to burning your hand on a hot pan. Your brain remembers and you start to develop a sense of which girls are good or bad targets. A very slow, dynamic process which requires some degree of intelligence and data gathering.

I ended up doing 1150 or so approaches that year in 2016. Mostly in Poland. It was a rollercoaster of positive and negative (mostly negative) emotions where I had multiple severe alcohol fuelled nervous breakdowns after several cluster chains of rejections. But I got 3 day game lays, 1 in Poland and 2 from a much shorter trip to Ukraine. At the end of the year I did a big trip to Brazil where I got another 2 lays from day-game, 1 being a same-day lay on New Years Eve.

All the while I was hitting tinder hard, constantly improving my pictures and style. Banged about 12 girls that year including the hottest girl I ever banged (without paying for it) in Prague. Spent a few grand on a new wardrobe and the services of a style consultant

I was already jacked but got even more so. Finally accepted defeat in the hair department, shaved it all off and once I got an ear-pinning surgery, became a proud bald man.

I invested in several coaching sessions. This including having Kyle Trouble (with John Bodi listening in) audit my dates in field (this is where I struggled and still struggle the most). I also had dedicated day-game training from one of Tom Torero’s former students. I met both Torero and Krauser by sheer chance on the streets of Warsaw actually.

I can never remember being so happy at the end of any year in my life. I felt like I had utterly destroyed my inceldom forever. Whenever I feel particularly low I try to visualise those times.

Fast forward to 2019 and I am struggling a lot these days.


Tinder has become COMPLETELY useless overnight. Despite getting a ton of DSLR professional photos done and spending (too much) time on my Instagram I got only 1 lay in 2018 and nothing since.

To give you an idea how bad it got, I banged 11 girls in 5 weeks in Mexico City in 2017. This year I went back for a fortnight and got none. Sounds crazy and of course I was inviting those girls directly to my place but still.

Though I have laid pipe to 9 girls from day game, I have now done over 1700 recorded approaches (with the best ratios by far coming from South America and Mexico). If you remove all the south America approaches from the equation, we are looking at a success ratio of 1/280 in Europe (mostly Poland but occasionally in Ukraine too).

It feels like it is getting worse all the time and my confidence is the lowest it has ever been. I find myself starting to drift back to some of the highly toxic and defeatist ‘incel’ thoughts I once had. A less stable mindset and worsening vibe.

One thing I can say with 1000000% certainty is THANK GOD I started moving my arse back in 2014 when I did. If I had waited till I was 30 I would be fucked.

I don’t think I would have made it. Things today are just so much harder than they once were. If I managed to enter that top % of men demographic (whatever it is) at least temporarily and in certain global sexual marketplaces, I have since slipped out. This is in spite of me increasing my value in every way as a man over the years.

If you were to put the me from 5 years ago in 2019 I think there is a far higher chance I would fail.

Its also telling to note I have never banged a British girl or any girl in my own country. Ever. To be fair I have done less than 100 approaches in any British city (I am now changing that I am feeling more and more than Warsaw isn’t much better than British cities these days) and have never had a tinder bang here either. And not for lack of trying. And this is the new and improved me. That is why I humbly disagree with people who say ‘if you can’t get laid in the west you have no chance in Ukraine etc.’

If you were to take most of these incels who are where I was emotionally (probably a lot worse in some cases like that guy who got 0/1000) at age 19 or 20 then I would wager they have no chance.

The thing is, the market is what it is. If you can’t hack it, its because you don’t reach the thresholds the market demands. Either you are good enough or you aren’t.

In the end my social skills will never be particularly good. Because that part of my brain never fully developed. They are FAR FAR FAR better than they once were and am thankfully not on any aspergers spectrum. But they are not great.

In the end my looks are handicapped. Sure, I use height insoles to walk at 5’9.5 rather than 5’7. I am bald and despite the head tattoo and having the right head shape for being bald and have the muscles and broad shoulders to rock the look, I will still be screened out a lot. I have the ‘incel’ jaw which no amount of getting lean and chiselled is going to fix. I could potentially get a jaw implant or beard transplant if I really wanted.

But the truth is I will always be at a disadvantage to the average reasonably handsome 6’2 dude with a full head of hair and decent jawline. Of course, it is more than just looks. It is status, game and confidence. But it still counts for a huge amount. They are in that upper range of the male SMV that I can never reach unless I became famous.

I have more than a couple of male friends, some of whom are quasi-players who absolutely SLAY it. Even today. I know one guy who only started day-gaming this year and banged the first 2 girls he approached (out of 10 I believe). His background was about 50 tinder bangs, with a super high conversion rate. Could be luck but let’s not kid ourselves. The only real difference between us is his much superior looks and historically strong date conversion rate (probably helped by said looks). He actually went with me to Mexico and achieved what I did 2 years ago but can’t do now, banging 8 girls in a row from tinder.

The best I can do is improve myself continuously as a man. Make more money. Become self-employed as a business man. Ideally multiple companies. Optimise my look constantly. Develop my personal style further. Become a better conversationalist. Improve the quality of my approaches i.e. less spam approaching and picking better targets. Split testing all the different variables than influence the success of an approach. Consider traveling to new countries, hunting for those last remaining truffles of better opportunities.

I have somehow managed to retain a reasonably attractive fuck buddy in Poland for 2 years now. A constant reminder that no matter what happens, if I put in enough effort, no matter how many 1000s of approaches, I will always have it ‘in me’ to find and keep a ‘7’ in my life sooner or later.

Probably forget about settling down and having a family though. As I anticipate I will be far less motivated to put that kind of work in to meet a reasonably decent women, the fact that the marriage and divorce laws are now so monstrously brutal toward men; and women no matter how good they appear can't be trusted to not abuse them AND not having enough options in the sexual marketplace to induce competition anxiety that will keep your girl in line... it seems like a battle that cannot be won. Getting the occasional casual sex encounter seems perhaps to be the absolute best a man, probably any man, former incel or not can hope to achieve these days. Maybe one day I will feel differently who knows.

I am not saying all this to rant or complain about the unfairness of the sexual marketplace (jeez don’t we have enough of that already?) but merely to give you the detailed opinions of a former incel given all of my experiences and rather unique feat of escaping from that heart of darkness known as being an incel.

And if thou gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into thee. Let's all try not to be as black pill and nihilistic as Nietzsche Smile
(This post was last modified: 04-20-2019 07:47 AM by WannaBang.)
04-20-2019 07:13 AM
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Ouroboros Offline
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Post: #146
RE: Dude approaches 1000 women and gets 0 lays
(04-20-2019 07:13 AM)WannaBang Wrote:  That is why I humbly disagree with people who say ‘if you can’t get laid in the west you have no chance in Ukraine etc.’

100%!! I don't know anything about Ukraine specifically, but this idea that you can't do a heck of a lot better overseas if you struggle at home is such bullshit. Game is not the same everywhere. High energy Western nightclub game is not the ideal form of game the world over. The standards for male looks vary from country to country (certain cultures place a higher value on style, others on muscles, others on skin colour, etc). Some countries are much more friendly to introverts than others. The environment in which you operate will in most cases impact on your results, and no one can honestly deny this.

I flinch a little whenever I see someone write something like 'if you struggle at home you'll do just as badly overseas' or the related cliché 'don't expect all the local girls to jump on your cock as soon as you get off the plane' (true, but only a retard would expect that to happen). Yes you should always work on improving yourself wherever you are but some incels could really, really benefit from a change of scenery.

(at the same time, I can see why some people might deny the existence of greener pastures to try to prevent their favourite spots from getting overrun and spoiled by foreign spam approachers)
(This post was last modified: 04-20-2019 08:55 AM by Ouroboros.)
04-20-2019 08:40 AM
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Bananaman711 Offline
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Post: #147
RE: Dude approaches 1000 women and gets 0 lays
(04-20-2019 08:40 AM)Ouroboros Wrote:  
(04-20-2019 07:13 AM)WannaBang Wrote:  That is why I humbly disagree with people who say ‘if you can’t get laid in the west you have no chance in Ukraine etc.’

100%!! I don't know anything about Ukraine specifically, but this idea that you can't do a heck of a lot better overseas if you struggle at home is such bullshit. Game is not the same everywhere. High energy Western nightclub game is not the ideal form of game the world over. The standards for male looks vary from country to country (certain cultures place a higher value on style, others on muscles, others on skin colour, etc). Some countries are much more friendly to introverts than others. The environment in which you operate will in most cases impact on your results, and no one can honestly deny this.

I flinch a little whenever I see someone write something like 'if you struggle at home you'll do just as badly overseas' or the related cliché 'don't expect all the local girls to jump on your cock as soon as you get off the plane' (true, but only a retard would expect that to happen). Yes you should always work on improving yourself wherever you are but some incels could really, really benefit from a change of scenery.

(at the same time, I can see why some people might deny the existence of greener pastures to try to prevent their favourite spots from getting overrun and spoiled by foreign spam approachers)


It is probably true for Filipino and Ukrainian men, If they cant score in their own country then its game over, they will not score anywhere, Filipino and Ukrainian guys must be the bottom of food chain.

On the other hand you could be well built average Australian and no woman will want him due to ultra competitive market, too difficult to stand out and impress local women.
When this same person goes to SEA or Ukraine his SMV goes through the roof, instant top 20-30% while in Australia he is in bottom 50%, total loser in the eyes of women.
04-20-2019 09:47 AM
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Ouroboros Offline
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Post: #148
RE: Dude approaches 1000 women and gets 0 lays
^ I don't know how Filipinos or Ukrainians would do overseas. I imagine a Ukrainian guy would find it easier to game in Africa or SEA than at home though...And even if there's no country a Filipino would find easier than the Philippines, he might still benefit from moving to another city within his home country. Environment makes a difference for most guys. [of course if a Filipino or Ukrainian had the money to travel overseas for bang trips, they probably would not be incels in their own countries]

Agree that changing SMPs can potentially produce dramatically different results if you're used to a competitive place like Australia.
(This post was last modified: 04-20-2019 10:29 AM by Ouroboros.)
04-20-2019 10:05 AM
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WannaBang Offline
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Post: #149
RE: Dude approaches 1000 women and gets 0 lays
Philippino? Ukrainian? If he is an incel who has done virtually nothing at all to improve himself there is nowhere he will succeed.
04-20-2019 10:13 AM
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