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Difficulty ladder for losing virginity?
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Nabuchodonozor Offline
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Post: #1
Difficulty ladder for losing virginity?
I'm almost 25, an awkward virgin, very neurotic and socially inept.
I also have no women in my circles.

At the moment I'm going on dates with girls from Tinder but it feels a bit too friendly and I can't make them attracted to me (I'm average looking but my confidence is pretty bad).

What would be the easiest way for me to lose virginity?
12-16-2018 01:11 PM
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Eugenics Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Difficulty ladder for losing virginity?
I would outright tell a few of these women you're a virgin. It would make your inevitable odd behavior make sense and if you're a little lucky one of then will have the notion that it's hot to take a mans virginity. Congruent honesty may get you places here.
12-16-2018 03:05 PM
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Nabuchodonozor Offline
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RE: Difficulty ladder for losing virginity?
The thing is right now I never make it to second date with chicks so we don't even discuss anything sexual.
12-16-2018 05:42 PM
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Waqqle Away
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RE: Difficulty ladder for losing virginity?
My advice: Go to a doctor/psychiatrist and have them check you out for High-Functioning Autism (Aspergers is not used as a diagnosis anymore). Do not self-diagnose but actually go to a doctor/psychiatrist and get it on paper. As a socially inept 25-y/o virgin, your odds of having it are substantially higher than average. Non-autistic people just do not tend to remain virgins that long unless they have some sort of compelling moral or religious reason for doing so or they were so deeply traumatized by some early life experience that they believe themselves incapable of enjoying sex as adults. If you do get diagnosed with Autism or anything else though, I recommend that you not allow them to prescribe you any sort of mind-altering medication as these are far more likely to mess you up and send any progress you have made hurdling backwards than they are to help you in any meaningful way.





While I lost my own virginity when I was 18, I was always inept to the point that I was placed in Special Education as a kid (despite also having been placed into the "Gifted" program as a result of scoring abnormally high on a mandatory IQ test) and lost numerous jobs as a young adult as a result of being socially dysfunctional/incompatible ("not being a good fit") and was diagnosed with ASD (Autism Spectrum Disorder) at age 23 while in the Army. I did not, however fall on it like a crutch and use it as an excuse for everything but instead have found great success with spinning it as a "how much I have successfully overcome through intelligence, competence, and out-of-the-box determination" thing instead of the typical "sad and pitiful victim of an uncaring universe" thing most people try to make it so that they never have to be responsible for themselves.

I also make jokes about and take advantage of it for comedic purposes very frequently by saying things like "desperate times call for autistic measures (got this from Sargon of Akkad)," "it's as if you were trying to attack this issue in the most violently autistic way possible," and things like that which are legitimately funny, especially if you enjoy dark humor the way I do, and even the most PC woman will not be able to help laughing if she believes that you are the one making the joke. In that way, you become her refuge from the stifling boredom and sterility of NPC society. You become the one she can go to when she wants to laugh at things because they are actually funny and not because social pressure from other NPCs compels her to pretend that they are. In addition, you have more fun and get more out of life this way than you would as a perpetual victim.

Women look to men primarily for strength, status, competence, provision (or at least the potential for provision), and leadership. If you can demonstrate those things even in spite of having had to overcome some great hardship, women are able to get off on all of those things while also enjoying the novelty of talking to and being around a guy who is noticeably and significantly different (in a positive and intriguing way) from almost every other guy she has ever dealt with. Even if she has met another high-functioning (read: high IQ) autistic guy before, it is very unlikely that he was the sort of guy who owned it and turned his way of dealing with it into something to respect and admire, especially since most autistic guys are encouraged by society and those around them to make excuses and be content with their status as peripheral characters in a story that will never include anything really enviable happening to/for them.

If you are autistic, you can also use a lot of your natural autistic traits as advantages such as not being moved by or even aware of the emotions of other individuals or groups (not a weak and fickle soyboy who changes his beliefs and decisions based on the whims of others), lack of facial expression and limited range in voice tone (not over-emotional and more in control than the average man), and singular obsessive focus (display of a high IQ and an impressive level of competence in at least one area) to name a few. If you get creative, you can spin just about anything into some kind of an advantage.

Doing all of this, I have actually found that, in almost every case, my odds of getting a woman interested in me and/or banging her go up whenever I casually let it slip that, oh by the way, I am autistic. Because of the way I set it up, telling them that I am autistic is almost like telling them that I am an X-man and they instantly become even more interested in me than they already were, so much so that it has become a sort of hook in my own game at this point.

Basically, what I am trying to communicate to you is that it is likely that you are autistic but, even if you are not, these principles still apply to you. Whether as an autist or just a neurologically normal 25-y/o man, you are a bit of an anomaly and that is something that you should spin into a respectable and admirable trait as opposed to revealing in in the same sort of grave and depressing way that someone might reveal their HIV status to someone.

I agree with Eugenics when he says that it would probably be a good move to just outright say that you are a virgin in the same way that, once/if you have been diagnosed, it would generally be a good move to casually reveal that you are autistic so long as you do so in such a way that it seems almost incidental (as opposed to grave) and as though it is something that you take pride in because you know that it sets you apart from the rest of the Borg.


Pro Tip: Whether you are autistic or not, deliberately practice eye contact. This skill, when honed properly, is well worth the time and effort needed to develop it and keeps paying for itself over and over.

Another Pro Tip: Get the hell off Tinder and go outside. Just start talking to girls that you come across while out in the world. In a more focused context, this would be called daygame but you should just be doing it as a fun recreational activity to be enjoyed for its own sake and for the enjoyment of honing your social skills and ability to get what you want (good vibes, advice, directions, information, etc.) out of people you only just met instead of going to Youtube or Facebook for all those things. If they give you weird looks or bad reactions, just casually let it slip that you are autistic (or, if you have not been diagnosed, that you grew up in a less than ideal situation and did not develop social skills normally) and are practicing social skills so that you can connect with people more and you believe that, one day, you will be able to teach young people, like you once were, how to overcome this obstacle as you have. This will both make them feel guilty (whereas they were trying to make you feel guilty - turn the tables on them) and probably elicit in them a sense of admiration and respect for you as well as instantly making you more interesting than the average NPC.

A Third Pro Tip: Do not apologize for anything ever, especially when it comes to having sex as this is the quickest way for a woman to turn off and lose respect for you as she re-categorized you as someone who is beneath her.

As for the actual sex part, I suggest that you quit porn completely and, if you masturbate (which I'm sure you must have started doing by now if you are 25 and have never had sex), that you stop masturbating for at least a month in order to let your body re-sensitize itself and reset your system so that, when the moment comes, you will not be thinking of how to keep it up while rolling on that condom so that you don't look lame despite the fact that she does not turn you on as much as the hardcore and highly niche porn that you are used to punishing yourself in front of your computer screen to but only of how much you want to get on top of her and relieve the sexual tension that has been building up in you throughout the time that you have been in "monk mode."

Some book recommendations for improving your social skills and inner game:

- Game by Roosh of course
- Every book by Robert Greene (Mastery, Laws of Power, etc.)
- Every book by Jack Donovan
- The Rational Male series by Rollo Tomassi
- People Watching by Desmond Morris (learn to make small talk)
- A Field Guide to Earthlings by Ian Ford
- What Every Body Is Saying by Joe Navarro
- Find Out Anything From Anyone, Anytime by James O. Pyle
- Sexual Body Language by Nicholas Jack
- Improve Your Social Skills by Daniel Wendler
- How to Kiss a Girl by Leon Drake
- The Emotional Terrorist and the Violence-Prone by Erin Pizzey and Psychopath Free by Jackson MacKenzie (for what I call "social self-defense")
12-16-2018 06:11 PM
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Cobra Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Difficulty ladder for losing virginity?
OP, can you tell us a bit more in detail on how these conversations and behaviors are going on dates?

I mean, what are you saying, what is she saying? What is your seating position relative to her? What is your tone?

Are you touching her at all? Is she touching you? Is she playing with her hair?

I think we can help you make some small adjustments at the very least that will help you.

You can read the literature all you want but we can help truly critique and adjust your game if you're ready for that.

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12-16-2018 07:24 PM
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Professor When Offline
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RE: Difficulty ladder for losing virginity?
(12-16-2018 06:11 PM)Waqqle Wrote:  If they give you weird looks or bad reactions, just casually let it slip that you are autistic (or, if you have not been diagnosed, that you grew up in a less than ideal situation and did not develop social skills normally) and are practicing social skills so that you can connect with people more and you believe that, one day, you will be able to teach young people, like you once were, how to overcome this obstacle as you have. This will both make them feel guilty (whereas they were trying to make you feel guilty - turn the tables on them) and probably elicit in them a sense of admiration and respect for you as well as instantly making you more interesting than the average NPC.

Be careful with this one. I tried this strategy before and I quickly learned that joking about practicing your social skills or any mental issues is a really great way to alienate people.
12-16-2018 09:19 PM
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Waqqle Away
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Post: #7
RE: Difficulty ladder for losing virginity?
(12-16-2018 07:24 PM)Cobra Wrote:  OP, can you tell us a bit more in detail on how these conversations and behaviors are going on dates?

You can read the literature all you want but we can help truly critique and adjust your game if you're ready for that.

I agree. Getting out there and doing it is key as well as doing an after-action analysis of what happened and what can be improved upon. It's definitely important to not use reading and absorbing information as an excuse for inaction. Please do give us some more specifics as far as how exactly you are running your game.
12-16-2018 09:57 PM
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Waqqle Away
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Post: #8
RE: Difficulty ladder for losing virginity?
(12-16-2018 09:19 PM)Professor When Wrote:  
(12-16-2018 06:11 PM)Waqqle Wrote:  If they give you weird looks or bad reactions, just casually let it slip that you are autistic (or, if you have not been diagnosed, that you grew up in a less than ideal situation and did not develop social skills normally) and are practicing social skills so that you can connect with people more and you believe that, one day, you will be able to teach young people, like you once were, how to overcome this obstacle as you have. This will both make them feel guilty (whereas they were trying to make you feel guilty - turn the tables on them) and probably elicit in them a sense of admiration and respect for you as well as instantly making you more interesting than the average NPC.

Be careful with this one. I tried this strategy before and I quickly learned that joking about practicing your social skills or any mental issues is a really great way to alienate people.

Be careful with all of this stuff but not so careful that you freeze up and do nothing at all. I make it sound easy but I have legitimately been practicing for years and I am still practicing. There will always be room for improvement and you will never score every time. Those times that you don't score, just brush it off and move on as best you can. And, generally, do not use these suggestions on people you have already known for a long time and/or people whom you will have to spend a great deal of time working with going forward into the future (I mean coworkers, bosses, etc.). As for all the other random people that you just happen to come across in the world, I would not worry too much about alienating them as you are very unlikely to see any of them again anyway unless you connect so well that they want to meet up with you again. If you never see them again, then it doesn't matter if you alienated them and, if they want to meet again, then it means that you strategy has gotten you a better result than doing nothing or passively accepting your arbitrary status as an awkward wallflower would have.
12-17-2018 12:47 AM
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Montrose Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Difficulty ladder for losing virginity?
(12-16-2018 05:42 PM)Nabuchodonozor Wrote:  The thing is right now I never make it to second date with chicks so we don't even discuss anything sexual.

Why is there no second date? You ask and she ghosts you?

Don’t discuss anything sexual on dates btw. That’s absolutely unnecessary and often counterproductive.
12-17-2018 07:45 AM
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coffeedrinker Offline
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RE: Difficulty ladder for losing virginity?
I lost my virginity just over a year ago (at 21) and have been on about 10 dates since so my advice is from a newb's perspective. The thing that recently clicked for me is to structure your dates. The structure is different for everyone but you need to roughly stick to it and alter only after you realise something isn't working or can be improved. Without structure, you don't know when to ask her to come back to yours, you don't know when to move venue and you keep wondering about these things instead of actually listening to her and it's harder to maintain frame.

Roughly what I do at the moment is:

- Hug when she comes and after getting greeting out the way, either mention something interesting that happened to me today or tease her about something we talked about previously.

- Get drinks - tease on whatever the choice is. (She picks Mojito, I say something like "Oh typical, another mojito girl") She picks something I haven't even heard of " Who even drinks that?"

-Next 10-15 mins I prefer to talk about funny random topics that aren't personal. If either of us make a funny joke, I like to give her a tap on the shoulder. If we both agree on something enthusiastically, get a high 5. These probably aren't the best strategies for escalating kino for experienced guys but for me it's easy as I'm still calibrating.

- Then I spend the next 10-20 minutes (depending on when she finishes her first drink) pretty much trying to qualify her. If she says something I can relate to, I like to give a story that shows my passion for whatever her point was. If she says something that can be amplified or exaggerated or innuendo joke then jump in. I like to read hands, great for holding her hand and making some stupid jokes.

- Venue change: I wait till a high moment in the convo when she's nearly finished her drink and suggest to either get something sweet (crepes/waffles) and show her a cool spot in town or ask directly back to mine for more drinks and >plausible deniability reason<.

Some other tips that I still often mess up. Don't ask for permission when suggesting things, always direct and let her say no if she really does not want to do something. Lets go back to mine for ... rather than asking "do you want to go back to mine for...". Lets go grab another drink etc. It's crazy how well girls react to directions/commands and how negatively they react to questions for permission.

Books like Bang by RooshV and countless other sources have pretty good info on dates but realise that without trying and trying again, it's hard to implement so many "strategies" at once. It's funny how some of the dates I had just months ago where I had no idea why the girl ignored me aftewards, I now know perfectly why. And usually it's due to not escalating quick enough on kino/going back to mine/sexually.
(This post was last modified: 12-17-2018 08:57 AM by coffeedrinker.)
12-17-2018 08:55 AM
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DarkTriad Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Difficulty ladder for losing virginity?
(12-16-2018 03:05 PM)Eugenics Wrote:  I would outright tell a few of these women you're a virgin. It would make your inevitable odd behavior make sense and if you're a little lucky one of then will have the notion that it's hot to take a mans virginity. Congruent honesty may get you places here.

There is a place for honesty....this ain't one of them. This is more of "a fake it till u make it" situation.
12-17-2018 09:06 AM
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chvrches Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Difficulty ladder for losing virginity?
(12-17-2018 08:55 AM)coffeedrinker Wrote:  I lost my virginity just over a year ago (at 21) and have been on about 10 dates since so my advice is from a newb's perspective. The thing that recently clicked for me is to structure your dates. The structure is different for everyone but you need to roughly stick to it and alter only after you realise something isn't working or can be improved. Without structure, you don't know when to ask her to come back to yours, you don't know when to move venue and you keep wondering about these things instead of actually listening to her and it's harder to maintain frame.

Roughly what I do at the moment is:

- Hug when she comes and after getting greeting out the way, either mention something interesting that happened to me today or tease her about something we talked about previously.

- Get drinks - tease on whatever the choice is. (She picks Mojito, I say something like "Oh typical, another mojito girl") She picks something I haven't even heard of " Who even drinks that?"

-Next 10-15 mins I prefer to talk about funny random topics that aren't personal. If either of us make a funny joke, I like to give her a tap on the shoulder. If we both agree on something enthusiastically, get a high 5. These probably aren't the best strategies for escalating kino for experienced guys but for me it's easy as I'm still calibrating.

- Then I spend the next 10-20 minutes (depending on when she finishes her first drink) pretty much trying to qualify her. If she says something I can relate to, I like to give a story that shows my passion for whatever her point was. If she says something that can be amplified or exaggerated or innuendo joke then jump in. I like to read hands, great for holding her hand and making some stupid jokes.

- Venue change: I wait till a high moment in the convo when she's nearly finished her drink and suggest to either get something sweet (crepes/waffles) and show her a cool spot in town or ask directly back to mine for more drinks and >plausible deniability reason<.

Some other tips that I still often mess up. Don't ask for permission when suggesting things, always direct and let her say no if she really does not want to do something. Lets go back to mine for ... rather than asking "do you want to go back to mine for...". Lets go grab another drink etc. It's crazy how well girls react to directions/commands and how negatively they react to questions for permission.

Books like Bang by RooshV and countless other sources have pretty good info on dates but realise that without trying and trying again, it's hard to implement so many "strategies" at once. It's funny how some of the dates I had just months ago where I had no idea why the girl ignored me aftewards, I now know perfectly why. And usually it's due to not escalating quick enough on kino/going back to mine/sexually.

I enjoy reading your posts mate because you have the same story as me and i can relate. I nearly run the same execution as you for dates, but i need advice for the part after she agrees to come home with you. Do you have a breakdown of what you do once she's inside your place, to loosen up the situation?
12-17-2018 03:14 PM
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RE: Difficulty ladder for losing virginity?
(12-17-2018 03:14 PM)chvrches Wrote:  I enjoy reading your posts mate because you have the same story as me and i can relate. I nearly run the same execution as you for dates, but i need advice for the part after she agrees to come home with you. Do you have a breakdown of what you do once she's inside your place, to loosen up the situation?

I start by giving them a quick tour of the house. I live in a house full of students so just show them the living room/kitchen and my room. I used to be scared if flatmates were around but actually I've realised that them seeing your flatmates actually eases them a little. Particularly if one of my girl flatmates is there. Then I basically sit them on my bed and offer them a drink (usually wine). Once they agree I leave them and go to the kitchen to get bottle and glasses. Usually they will start looking at your pictures which gives you a good chance to tease her about going through your things but also to give some background on the photo to build comfort.

Then I say what movie we will watch or if she gave a time limit or movie may be taken as too cliche then I go for second best (episode of friends, funny video of me doing something, travel video, anything but ideally something that will run for at least 10 mins). The reason is I want her to get comfortable on the bed and I do this by placing two pillows on the wall side (far side) of bed. This ensures I'll be in contact with her (both pillows are next to eachother) and she will most likely take off her shoes (as getting to the end of the bed without taking shoes off is just rude).

I make sure there is pretty much body contact when I sit next to her and depending on how the interaction is going I would put my hand around her as soon as possible. Then it's all about feeling the right moment to go for the kiss. Don't take longer than 10-15 minutes to try. Sometimes girls will not give any clue that they want to be kissed but as soon as you do it, it's like a light switch and you can see they were waiting on you to do it. If she is talking a lot, just say "you talk too much", pause and wait for her to look at you and go for the kiss.

Once the kiss happens, I go as detailed in bang book pretty much, except so far I've had only few occasions with LMR and usually if she offers no resistance then I don't see any disadvantage in taking clothes off faster then mentioned in there.

Also if she does offer LMR at any stage, agreeing or backing down a notch before trying again after some time does work. I've found getting my knee in between her legs and doing some brushing can work well too for getting her aroused without cause for resistance. But there is a lot of resources for dealing LMR.

Again all of this is with limited experience but hopefully it gives you some ideas. Also apologies to OP for somewhat offtopic post.
(This post was last modified: 12-17-2018 05:29 PM by coffeedrinker.)
12-17-2018 05:29 PM
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Post: #14
RE: Difficulty ladder for losing virginity?
I'm not sure if I'm autistic, but I struggled with extreme level of social anxiety since I was born. I developed depression pretty fast and started having suicidal thoughts since I was around 14. Right now I conquered a lot of it but I'm socially weird because I spent 20 years isolating from people.

I have a lot of trouble talking to strangers in real world.

(12-16-2018 07:24 PM)Cobra Wrote:  OP, can you tell us a bit more in detail on how these conversations and behaviors are going on dates?

I mean, what are you saying, what is she saying? What is your seating position relative to her? What is your tone?

Are you touching her at all? Is she touching you? Is she playing with her hair?

We are usually talking about our lives, jobs, hobbies, tv shows and other boring neutral shit like that. I try not to sit in front but next to her, but I don't have the courage to escalate anyway (while I'm sober at least). I think my natural tone is boring and my voice is pretty meek (from what I can tell after recording myself). Last date the girl I was with was playing with her hair but she had pretty closed position (legs crossed and hands on knees), I could also tell she was pretty nervous (she was constantly looking around).
I just feel like I'm so boring, sad and never have anything interesting to say.

(12-17-2018 07:45 AM)Montrose Wrote:  Why is there no second date? You ask and she ghosts you?

I ask and she says she's busy or just doesn't answer, yeah.

@coffeedrinker: What are "fun, random topics" for example? And what do you mean by saying "trying to qualify her?".

The only makeout I had in my life was when I was drunk and didn't even speak one word to the girl before. Alcohol shuts down my inhibitions pretty well.
12-18-2018 01:09 PM
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RE: Difficulty ladder for losing virginity?
(12-18-2018 01:09 PM)Nabuchodonozor Wrote:  @coffeedrinker: What are "fun, random topics" for example? And what do you mean by saying "trying to qualify her?".

At the start of a date, you want to set a light, easy to talk mood. Literally anything can be made somewhat fun. Don't try to remember lines for this, just use anything she says. It doesn't have to be a masterpiece, just have to show that you can talk about random shit and that the conversation won't be an interview.

She comes late - > "Do you always come late?, my teacher in high school used to lock us out if we were 5 mins late, think I should give you a punishment too?

You had something intriguing happen the day? "Hey you'll never guess what happened to me today!" HER "What?" YOU "So I was on the bus to work half asleep and this guy puts his hand out towards me. For some reason I though he wanted to spud me so I made a fist and gave him a true gangster greeting. Only afterwards did I realise he was actually a beggar asking for money. He must have though I was crazy" (True story)

Then you can ask her if she had any crazy/interesting stuff happen to her. If she says not really, you can just tease her and say that it seems crazy stuff only happen to you and say another story that recently happened.

Talking about stuff that happened to you is easy because you already know the story. If nothing particularly interesting has happened, just slightly tweak a boring story. I.e., a colleague was being annoying to you today and kept chatting shit? Say "Had to deal with the craziest colleague today, she kept talking about her cats and how they were ill and all the things they did and I swear I hear the same stories every week... I hope you aren't a crazy cat lady."
12-18-2018 06:44 PM
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RE: Difficulty ladder for losing virginity?
First of all congratulations for seeking help and opening up yourself. There is no shame and nothing bad in doing so. We are all men who seek to help each other and be united.

First of all as bad and difficult as it sounds, try to get this idea of losing your virginity out for a few days at least. Ask yourself who you are. Do you have some specific hobbies, yes even those some would consider weird (I love vexillology for instance and maps but it never stopped me from getting sex with women), do you have some personal assets such as knowing other languages and are you someone who reads books or like a movie genre etc. You get the point make a list of things you like and don't feel embarrassed.

Once you sort out your personality a bit and created some order you can then 'process' it a bit. Are you the silent type -> try to go mysterious, are you the one who has very unique hobbies -> embrace your weirdness and turn it into a sexual tool or are you at the end the knowledgeable type, not an issue at all.

As some others said you can just say that you are virgin and get the bang like that, however the other ways would include to focus on what you processed. Expand your personality, expand yourself and start to feel great about yourself. You are from Poland I suppose, so Poland is a great place and I am sure you haven't been everywhere in Poland. For few Zlotys it is possible to visit great places. Use this to your advantage. Why am I saying all of this, well it will increase your chance of rambling, you will have stuff that you can use as topics for conversations. It is better to say a than nothing at all.

Once you have some vision of who you want to be (even if it is just one little aspect you want to work on) you should go back to tinder a bit. Check the what should I text next thread and try to go direct. Don't be neutral, be bold, and run the risk that women might call you 'rude'. Later on it is essential to adopt the same style in real life. Be bold, because if you are not, you will miss out on opportunities. It is ok if it takes time and don't push yourself. Women are not the life man, they are an accessory. You, your personality, your dreams, your wishes, your path, that's life and women can choose to join you or not. It is their choice.

Very important keep in mind that numbers are crucial. Better to spam a bit for a few days, than to focus on one wasted opportunity.

If nothing else works...don't worry you can still go to other places. I heard that seasonal flights from Warsaw to Bangkok happen during summer so that's something to consider.
12-19-2018 08:11 AM
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Nabuchodonozor Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Difficulty ladder for losing virginity?
(12-19-2018 08:11 AM)Obermarschall Wrote:  Once you sort out your personality a bit and created some order you can then 'process' it a bit. Are you the silent type -> try to go mysterious, are you the one who has very unique hobbies -> embrace your weirdness and turn it into a sexual tool or are you at the end the knowledgeable type, not an issue at all.

Women are not the life man, they are an accessory. You, your personality, your dreams, your wishes, your path, that's life and women can choose to join you or not. It is their choice.

Yeah, I'm the silent type but it never got me any results.

It will sound bluepill, I know in theory that women are an accessory and not the life but at the moment my only dream is to get a girlfriend, to show myself and others that I'm actually a sexual being and worthy of having a partner.
12-22-2018 06:31 PM
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Rushmore Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Difficulty ladder for losing virginity?
I don't know if this answer is mainstream enough but lets try:

Maybe going for girls with a similar profile like yours? Personally, I *heart* STEM girls, introverts, that. You will get laid, eventually. Nothing wrong with being on a holding-hands and making-out basis with someone, to build comfort. Or do you believe that you will go from virgin to pornstar performance in the first night?

Take it easy, and find a nice girl. The cheerleaders are going for the jocks anyway (I assume you are in the U.S.).
12-23-2018 06:44 AM
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Nabuchodonozor Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Difficulty ladder for losing virginity?
Met really cool girl from Tinder, yesterday we went for drinks, 3 hours of non-stop talking. After about 1,5 hrs I started escalating, I put my arm around her shoulder, on her waist, played with her hair, hands, thigh. A lot of eye contact from her but very little touch (I'd say touching was 95% on my part). I even went for a kiss, got the cheek but there was no awkwardness after and I felt good about trying. We hugged at the end and agreed on 2nd date after christmas. Finally some good date and feeling really proud of myself, how to keep this going? What would be a good 2nd date to get a kiss, maybe get laid (I live with my parents but she lives alone).
(This post was last modified: 12-24-2018 03:38 PM by Nabuchodonozor.)
12-24-2018 03:32 PM
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Obermarschall Offline
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RE: Difficulty ladder for losing virginity?
That's good progress. Wish you good luck and good sex for your second date!
12-24-2018 04:29 PM
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Martin_l Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Difficulty ladder for losing virginity?
(12-18-2018 01:09 PM)Nabuchodonozor Wrote:  I'm not sure if I'm autistic, but I struggled
...

The only makeout I had in my life was when I was drunk and didn't even speak one word to the girl before. Alcohol shuts down my inhibitions pretty well.
No much use to have the label autistic or not. maybe useful to professionals, but everyone has some autistic treats. Forget that label.


I personally not like the drunk part, but maybe for you it is possible to find a good balance where the alcohol makes you more relaxed but still enough in control.


(12-24-2018 03:32 PM)Nabuchodonozor Wrote:  We hugged at the end and agreed on 2nd date after christmas. Finally some good date ...

What would be a good 2nd date to ...
Something you are comfortable with. maybe a bar, maybe something active. Or offer to cook at her place, that helps the logistics. She has to eat anyway.

And if it not works, just learn from it.
12-31-2018 06:29 AM
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Post: #22
RE: Difficulty ladder for losing virginity?
(12-31-2018 06:29 AM)Martin_l Wrote:  No much use to have the label autistic or not. maybe useful to professionals, but everyone has some autistic treats. Forget that label.

It's not about having a label. In fact, it would likely be best to keep such a thing secret from all but those with whom you do not already have at least some rapport and even then, there is usually no reason to bring it up. The main reason for getting a diagnosis (or being told by a diagnostic professional that you are entirely normal) is to identify the primary root cause of your issues. Once the root cause has been identified, you can start exploring the various (albeit very limited at this time) resources which have been produced to help effected people address it. I made a thread on the subject myself a while back because I felt that there are too few resources available and too many people take this particular abnormality as just one more excuse to play the victim card and avoid ever improving themselves or their situation.

It's not about seeking some kind of victimhood status or getting people to feel bad for you. It's about maximizing the efficiency of your game learning process. Frankly, for someone who is neurologically abnormal (in this case, an intelligent autistic person, not someone who is mentally retarded), certain aspects and techniques in game will, at least as they are usually described by their neurologically normal proponents, be incomprehensible or at least exceedingly difficult to understand and apply in practice. This problem can be greatly reduced in severity if the neurologically abnormal individual is already aware of the areas in which he will face an unusual amount of difficulty and why and if he has already learned and developed techniques and strategies to maximize the speed and efficiency of his game acquisition process.

There is no shame in being abnormal in this way but there is benefit in being aware of it in the same way that there is no shame in being a black person from sub-Saharan Africa but there is benefit in being aware of how that fact will make your experience of life in China different from that of a native-born Han Chinese person as well as of how your different background and upbringing will inevitably cause you to view things and conceptualize the world and your place within it differently from the same person. Having this awareness allows an individual to develop a comprehensive understanding of the peculiar obstacles and difficulties that he will face within a given context so that he may engage them more effectively (as opposed to relying solely on firing metaphorical shots in the dark and hoping for the best) as well as the ways in which he may be able to utilize and leverage his inherent peculiarities for the purpose of gaining certain advantages and/or benefits which a typical person within that context may have more difficulty accessing, such as becoming a minor TV celebrity simply by learning the language and liking the food in the case of the African in China.

Like the black person in China, it is very likely that a high-functioning autistic individual will be the only person within his environment who will face certain major challenges and this means that there will most likely not be anyone locally available to mentor or guide that individual in a successful direction (how could they when they have no relevant experience?). However, with a conscious awareness of his peculiarity and access to resources produced, especially by those who have already engaged successfully with the same issues in a different place and time, for the purpose of maximizing the efficiency of skill acquisition for individuals with this particular (or any other) abnormality, an individual can greatly increase their odds of success.
(This post was last modified: 01-21-2019 01:58 PM by Waqqle.)
01-21-2019 01:56 PM
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DarkVader Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Difficulty ladder for losing virginity?
(12-22-2018 06:31 PM)Nabuchodonozor Wrote:  Yeah, I'm the silent type but it never got me any results.

It will sound bluepill, I know in theory that women are an accessory and not the life but at the moment my only dream is to get a girlfriend, to show myself and others that I'm actually a sexual being and worthy of having a partner.

I'm a "quiet" type and by that I mean when I first got into game, which was around 2009 it was so flashy and all about being high energy that it didn't sit right with my personality. Now I'm more of the strong silent type and girls pick up on this. I'm assertive when I need to be, like when it comes to approaching and making things happen but I'm also pretty quiet on dates. I let her do most of the talking and backseat drive and ask leading questions. If you're quiet own it and work from there, there's more than one way to skin a cat. Remember any sort of tension is built in the silence, whether it is sexual or awkward and how she perceives it depends on how you act in that silence. If you seem comfortable in your skin, she won't feel awkward about it. I have this thing I do on dates where I sort of just stop a conversation thread and just look around the room like she's bored me a bit and come back a few seconds later with some strong eye contact, a smirk and "what were you saying?"

When you're the quiet one and you can get her talking, it's actually funny how much a girl will run her mouth and end up saying stupid things. Use this to your advantage, this is where a well timed tease can swing things into your favour. Imagine you're a quarterback in American football and because you're quiet and observant you can see all the runs(conversation topics) she's making in front of you and you just pick the best one to get into. That's the pass that you make. It gives you an aura of authority and guess what...that's sexy for a woman. I remember the first time I understood how to act on a date with a girl and I swear once you pick this up 9/10 dates are going to go as you want them without you even thinking about it. It's the mindset that you have that will get you where you need to be.

The best bit is, girls don't actually think I'm quiet because I talk sparingly but when I do, it's meaningful. They get some weird perception that we've got on really well but if they really broke it down, they just got chatted up and seduced.
01-21-2019 02:29 PM
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Heuristics Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Difficulty ladder for losing virginity?
My symptomology is somewhat similar. Lost virginity at 21, difficulty understanding social Dynamics and feeling "slow" or out of my Lane in social situations despite being quite a big talker who engages in stream of consciousness dialogues a lot. People tell me I'm intense, and that an almost encyclopedic knowledge of the world is what I possess. I've defied diagnosis despite years upon years in the public school system. I was tested a lot,don't know if I was ever tested for autism. But IQ test upon IQ test was done and I basically had no peers in school. I was supposed to skip grades or go to prep school but never happened. Teachers were apologetic about the fact they couldn't teach me more.

Some of my closer friends have suggested I have autism, and I'd actually be at peace with the fact if I did.. it would explain a lot of the adversity I've faced. It would explain loosing my virginity too late, being too intense, and my obsessive focus with information of all sorts. It'd explain why I always speak the same way, have some aversion to eye contact--even though I'm good with it with girls-- go into deep topics quickly upon meeting people, find most people boring or shallow etc.

I had a religious upbringing that stifled a lot of my personal development, and to this day, people tell me I need to get out of my head. Being in a situation where you're likely autistic, and you're being conditioned by religion/society to think a certain way about women is fucking toxic, much less the fact they're both feeding you blue pills. I've finally started to unpack all these complexes I've had, and only now have I realized how deeply have they permiated my being. I've only recently realized how much drivel society feeds men. Only through game have I been able to break the conditioning and become my true self, a guy who doesn't give a fuck.

'Safe sex'- a term which makes one appreciative of the truth of... saying "Is having sex with a condom not like taking a shower with a raincoat on?" The ultimate goal would be... to invent "opium without opium": no wonder marihuana is so popular among liberals... it already IS... 'opium without opium'. -S. Zizek

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(This post was last modified: 01-21-2019 02:58 PM by Heuristics.)
01-21-2019 02:49 PM
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BBinger Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Difficulty ladder for losing virginity?
(01-21-2019 02:49 PM)Heuristics Wrote:  My symptomology is somewhat similar. Lost virginity at 21, difficulty understanding social Dynamics and feeling "slow" or out of my Lane in social situations despite being quite a big talker who engages in stream of consciousness dialogues a lot. People tell me I'm intense, and that an almost encyclopedic knowledge of the world is what I possess. I've defied diagnosis despite years upon years in the public school system. I was tested a lot,don't know if I was ever tested for autism. But IQ test upon IQ test was done and I basically had no peers in school. I was supposed to skip grades or go to prep school but never happened. Teachers were apologetic about the fact they couldn't teach me more.

Some of my closer friends have suggested I have autism, and I'd actually be at peace with the fact if I did.. it would explain a lot of the adversity I've faced. It would explain loosing my virginity too late, being too intense, and my obsessive focus with information of all sorts. It'd explain why I always speak the same way, have some aversion to eye contact--even though I'm good with it with girls-- go into deep topics quickly upon meeting people, find most people boring or shallow etc.

I had a religious upbringing that stifled a lot of my personal development, and to this day, people tell me I need to get out of my head. Being in a situation where you're likely autistic, and you're being conditioned by religion/society to think a certain way about women is fucking toxic, much less the fact they're both feeding you blue pills. I've finally started to unpack all these complexes I've had, and only now have I realized how deeply have they permiated my being. I've only recently realized how much drivel society feeds men. Only through game have I been able to break the conditioning and become my true self, a guy who doesn't give a fuck.

Thankfully you are encountering the way out of your pit while young. Learn some more languages.

The younger you are, the more plastic your brain is, and the better your chance of building a better life you can import back into your mother tongue. Live in the other language as much as you can.

Even with Anglin et al hyping up the promise of the "Zoomer" generation I suspect all the kids growing up with English as a single language are getting crippled for that. Language has a strong effect on the thoughts you can have. I suspect a lot of the autist's problems come when stuck in a single language shaping their thoughts as evidenced by the relative social success intoxication allows.
01-22-2019 02:01 AM
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