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40% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck
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MongolianAbroad Offline
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Post: #76
RE: 40% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck
(12-31-2018 12:39 PM)sebip Wrote:  I think the main problems, as have been pointed before, are the debt and living below your means. But at the same time, reading through the thread, I just can't believe how good you have it in the US. Talking about 40-130k year income, so many facilities, opportunities, it's unbelievable.

I come from a 3rd world country in EE, and do you want to know what's considered a good income here? 12-15k$ a year, that's a good fucking income. And some families, with 2-3 kids, live only from that. And another fucked up thing? We have the major big corporations, with the big supermarkets, and everything, but the prices? The prices are the same as in tier1 geos. So imagine having to live with that.

I am a young guy, 23 years old. Do you want to know what all my peers are thinking about? Move to another country to manage to put some scrapes aside, and to make a living, or get a 500-800$ monthly job here, getting abused in every possible way. You talk about people buying expensive cars on a debt, we take a debt to buy those 2nd hand used cars from you.

One of the main advantages though is that real estate is way more less expensive than in the US, but with 12-15k annual income, how do you think you can afford to buy one? So yeah 40% of the population, take credits to afford a home, and they are gonna be debt burned all their life, just to repay that fucking apartment, because houses here are a luxury in big cities, mostly for the rich(if you don't come from the poor villages). And don't let me tell you about the quality of the apartments, built with the cheapest materials, just to make a profit.

The main thing I've learned from my father, is to never take on debt. My father came from a really poor background, having 12 siblings, barely having anything to eat. By the time he was 12 years old, his father made him sell honey by the railway so he can pay rent just to stay in his father's home. He used to steal food from colleagues in school, so he could give it back to his siblings. He had to work hard his entire life, travelling abroad working for years so his family could have food on the table, considering my mother didn't work a single day in her life.

I remember when I started highschool, I only had 1 outfit to wear every single day.(I remember one day even wearing my mother's jeans, because I literally had nothing to wear) My father was re-investing all the money he was making, and we only had the basic necessities. After beeing mocked at school by my classmates every day, one day I got the courage to go to my dad and ask him for some money to buy new clothes, because I never even had the courage to ask him for money. He told me, if you want money, you have to work for it, so he had a plantation of strawberries on a field, and he brought me on a weekend to work for 10 hours. I remember I was exhausted, every worker from there was laughing at me, at how my father makes me work for him with the other workers. At the end of the day, my father gave me 15$, for 10 hours of working the field in the sun. I remember beeing so mad, breaking my back 10 hours only for 15$, I couldn't even buy myself a pair of sneakers. That was the moment I knew that I would never do this again, and that in life if you don't create something for yourself, nobody will help you. I've made my father a promise that day, that I will have more money in life than he ever will. And do you know what he told me? Maybe on the moon. I remember clearly, that was the breaking point for me, as soon as I got home, I went to my computer and searched for: "how to make money online".

7 years fast forward? Now I have my own business, employees, live alone, properties, my own car, without a single help from my parents. I've worked my ass off, every single day, while others were partying, I was reading and reading, most of the nights falling asleep on the keyboard. It was a hard journey, I had to sacrifice a lot, from having experiences with girls, going out with the guys, going to parties, etc. But I don't regret anything, because at the end of the day, I know I am a better man because of it.

My whole point is that, this new generation is pussified. They don't really know what hard work is, everybody is used with instant gratification because of the internet, techonology in general and social media impact on our lives. And when you also come from a poor country, your options are so limited, no wonder 99% of my peers feel so lost. It's a sad reality we live in, as someone said before, only you are responsable for your life, and you have to make the right decisions, otherwise you will be left behind.

^^ This man gets it.

Agree 100%. Repped.

Nice work, sebip.
12-31-2018 12:53 PM
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Aurini Offline
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Post: #77
RE: 40% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck
This is how they get you:

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12-31-2018 01:27 PM
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Cobra Offline
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RE: 40% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck
(12-31-2018 12:39 PM)sebip Wrote:  I think the main problems, as have been pointed before, are the debt and living below your means. But at the same time, reading through the thread, I just can't believe how good you have it in the US. Talking about 40-130k year income, so many facilities, opportunities, it's unbelievable.

I come from a 3rd world country in EE, and do you want to know what's considered a good income here? 12-15k$ a year, that's a good fucking income. And some families, with 2-3 kids, live only from that. And another fucked up thing? We have the major big corporations, with the big supermarkets, and everything, but the prices? The prices are the same as in tier1 geos. So imagine having to live with that.

I am a young guy, 23 years old. Do you want to know what all my peers are thinking about? Move to another country to manage to put some scrapes aside, and to make a living, or get a 500-800$ monthly job here, getting abused in every possible way. You talk about people buying expensive cars on a debt, we take a debt to buy those 2nd hand used cars from you.

One of the main advantages though is that real estate is way more less expensive than in the US, but with 12-15k annual income, how do you think you can afford to buy one? So yeah 40% of the population, take credits to afford a home, and they are gonna be debt burned all their life, just to repay that fucking apartment, because houses here are a luxury in big cities, mostly for the rich(if you don't come from the poor villages). And don't let me tell you about the quality of the apartments, built with the cheapest materials, just to make a profit.

The main thing I've learned from my father, is to never take on debt. My father came from a really poor background, having 12 siblings, barely having anything to eat. By the time he was 12 years old, his father made him sell honey by the railway so he can pay rent just to stay in his father's home. He used to steal food from colleagues in school, so he could give it back to his siblings. He had to work hard his entire life, travelling abroad working for years so his family could have food on the table, considering my mother didn't work a single day in her life.

I remember when I started highschool, I only had 1 outfit to wear every single day.(I remember one day even wearing my mother's jeans, because I literally had nothing to wear) My father was re-investing all the money he was making, and we only had the basic necessities. After beeing mocked at school by my classmates every day, one day I got the courage to go to my dad and ask him for some money to buy new clothes, because I never even had the courage to ask him for money. He told me, if you want money, you have to work for it, so he had a plantation of strawberries on a field, and he brought me on a weekend to work for 10 hours. I remember I was exhausted, every worker from there was laughing at me, at how my father makes me work for him with the other workers. At the end of the day, my father gave me 15$, for 10 hours of working the field in the sun. I remember beeing so mad, breaking my back 10 hours only for 15$, I couldn't even buy myself a pair of sneakers. That was the moment I knew that I would never do this again, and that in life if you don't create something for yourself, nobody will help you. I've made my father a promise that day, that I will have more money in life than he ever will. And do you know what he told me? Maybe on the moon. I remember clearly, that was the breaking point for me, as soon as I got home, I went to my computer and searched for: "how to make money online".

7 years fast forward? Now I have my own business, employees, live alone, properties, my own car, without a single help from my parents. I've worked my ass off, every single day, while others were partying, I was reading and reading, most of the nights falling asleep on the keyboard. It was a hard journey, I had to sacrifice a lot, from having experiences with girls, going out with the guys, going to parties, etc. But I don't regret anything, because at the end of the day, I know I am a better man because of it.

My whole point is that, this new generation is pussified. They don't really know what hard work is, everybody is used with instant gratification because of the internet, techonology in general and social media impact on our lives. And when you also come from a poor country, your options are so limited, no wonder 99% of my peers feel so lost. It's a sad reality we live in, as someone said before, only you are responsable for your life, and you have to make the right decisions, otherwise you will be left behind.

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(This post was last modified: 12-31-2018 01:45 PM by Cobra.)
12-31-2018 01:45 PM
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chicane Offline
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Post: #79
RE: 40% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck
Lots of people saying "just live below your means". Here's the reality: if you set up a lifestyle that is below your means today, in 5 years you will have to downgrade that lifestyle to keep it below your means. People who work for a living are getting squeezed by stagnant wages and constantly increasing cost of living.
12-31-2018 02:17 PM
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Post: #80
RE: 40% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck
(12-31-2018 12:39 PM)sebip Wrote:  I think the main problems, as have been pointed before, are the debt and living below your means. But at the same time, reading through the thread, I just can't believe how good you have it in the US. Talking about 40-130k year income, so many facilities, opportunities, it's unbelievable.

I come from a 3rd world country in EE, and do you want to know what's considered a good income here? 12-15k$ a year, that's a good fucking income. And some families, with 2-3 kids, live only from that. And another fucked up thing? We have the major big corporations, with the big supermarkets, and everything, but the prices? The prices are the same as in tier1 geos. So imagine having to live with that.

I am a young guy, 23 years old. Do you want to know what all my peers are thinking about? Move to another country to manage to put some scrapes aside, and to make a living, or get a 500-800$ monthly job here, getting abused in every possible way. You talk about people buying expensive cars on a debt, we take a debt to buy those 2nd hand used cars from you.

One of the main advantages though is that real estate is way more less expensive than in the US, but with 12-15k annual income, how do you think you can afford to buy one? So yeah 40% of the population, take credits to afford a home, and they are gonna be debt burned all their life, just to repay that fucking apartment, because houses here are a luxury in big cities, mostly for the rich(if you don't come from the poor villages). And don't let me tell you about the quality of the apartments, built with the cheapest materials, just to make a profit.

The main thing I've learned from my father, is to never take on debt. My father came from a really poor background, having 12 siblings, barely having anything to eat. By the time he was 12 years old, his father made him sell honey by the railway so he can pay rent just to stay in his father's home. He used to steal food from colleagues in school, so he could give it back to his siblings. He had to work hard his entire life, travelling abroad working for years so his family could have food on the table, considering my mother didn't work a single day in her life.

I remember when I started highschool, I only had 1 outfit to wear every single day.(I remember one day even wearing my mother's jeans, because I literally had nothing to wear) My father was re-investing all the money he was making, and we only had the basic necessities. After beeing mocked at school by my classmates every day, one day I got the courage to go to my dad and ask him for some money to buy new clothes, because I never even had the courage to ask him for money. He told me, if you want money, you have to work for it, so he had a plantation of strawberries on a field, and he brought me on a weekend to work for 10 hours. I remember I was exhausted, every worker from there was laughing at me, at how my father makes me work for him with the other workers. At the end of the day, my father gave me 15$, for 10 hours of working the field in the sun. I remember beeing so mad, breaking my back 10 hours only for 15$, I couldn't even buy myself a pair of sneakers. That was the moment I knew that I would never do this again, and that in life if you don't create something for yourself, nobody will help you. I've made my father a promise that day, that I will have more money in life than he ever will. And do you know what he told me? Maybe on the moon. I remember clearly, that was the breaking point for me, as soon as I got home, I went to my computer and searched for: "how to make money online".

7 years fast forward? Now I have my own business, employees, live alone, properties, my own car, without a single help from my parents. I've worked my ass off, every single day, while others were partying, I was reading and reading, most of the nights falling asleep on the keyboard. It was a hard journey, I had to sacrifice a lot, from having experiences with girls, going out with the guys, going to parties, etc. But I don't regret anything, because at the end of the day, I know I am a better man because of it.

My whole point is that, this new generation is pussified. They don't really know what hard work is, everybody is used with instant gratification because of the internet, techonology in general and social media impact on our lives. And when you also come from a poor country, your options are so limited, no wonder 99% of my peers feel so lost. It's a sad reality we live in, as someone said before, only you are responsable for your life, and you have to make the right decisions, otherwise you will be left behind.

Sebip, comparing incomes between the US and some other country is a fallacy unless you also compare costs.

The US is a high-income, high-cost nation. That's just the way it is. We are mandated to pay $24k per year in health insurance (for a family of 4). Food is expensive. Gas is expensive, and most americans live in regions where driving is mandatory to survive.

The point is, our costs have been driven up wildly (400% increase in past 30 years) while incomes have remained stagnant. Americans work HARDER and LONGER than you do. Sure we have nice clothes, but those cost nothing so that's meaningless.

Every single time I read somebody complaining about how the modern generation of Americans are "lazy" -- that's bullshit. Sorry. It's pure bullshit and just another cheap way of ignoring what's really going on.

It's so easy to call somebody ELSE lazy.
12-31-2018 02:21 PM
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TigerMandingo Offline
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Post: #81
RE: 40% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck
MrLemon great posts.

Too many dudes blathering on with their cliché inspirational stories about pulling yourself up by the bootstraps. That's not what this is about.

Kokkinakis banged your girlfriend. Sorry to tell you that mate.
12-31-2018 02:28 PM
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Post: #82
RE: 40% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck
Tiger said what I was gonna say before I said it.

S'honestly a little weird how many people read about their countrymen being crushed under stagnant wages, high taxes, and inflation, and think to themselves,"This is the perfect chance to brag about my bankroll and what a hard worker I am!"

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12-31-2018 02:30 PM
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Post: #83
RE: 40% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck
The solution is clear when wages are stagnant - you need to be paying the wages of others and leveraging their time so that you can build something that either pays you while you sleep, or to create an event that allows you to never work again. Then, you leverage that money so that it continues to grow at an annual rate, paying for your basic living expenses without touching the principle.

We can belly ache about wages stagnating, about how the government fucks us, about this and that, but the road map is there for anyone that takes the initiative, stops watching netflix, and focuses on their money for a year or two.

We live in literally the easiest time ever to get rich - the media is being democratized, the internet allows you a market of billions of people, and you can decide where you live - so even if you only make a low wage, you get to select where your dollars are arbitraged. USD goes pretty far in Vietnam. I think that anyone living paycheque to paycheque has to have made a series of decisions in their life that lead them to be in that position; from educational debt, to getting married and divorced, to having a kid too young, etc, etc, etc.

I feel bad for these people, but at the same time, anyone with the work ethic, drive, and determination can climb out of this.

"Money over bitches, nigga stick to the script." - Jay-Z
They gonna love me for my ambition.
(This post was last modified: 12-31-2018 02:42 PM by TheFinalEpic.)
12-31-2018 02:30 PM
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sebip Offline
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Post: #84
RE: 40% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck
(12-31-2018 02:21 PM)MrLemon Wrote:  
(12-31-2018 12:39 PM)sebip Wrote:  I think the main problems, as have been pointed before, are the debt and living below your means. But at the same time, reading through the thread, I just can't believe how good you have it in the US. Talking about 40-130k year income, so many facilities, opportunities, it's unbelievable.

I come from a 3rd world country in EE, and do you want to know what's considered a good income here? 12-15k$ a year, that's a good fucking income. And some families, with 2-3 kids, live only from that. And another fucked up thing? We have the major big corporations, with the big supermarkets, and everything, but the prices? The prices are the same as in tier1 geos. So imagine having to live with that.

I am a young guy, 23 years old. Do you want to know what all my peers are thinking about? Move to another country to manage to put some scrapes aside, and to make a living, or get a 500-800$ monthly job here, getting abused in every possible way. You talk about people buying expensive cars on a debt, we take a debt to buy those 2nd hand used cars from you.

One of the main advantages though is that real estate is way more less expensive than in the US, but with 12-15k annual income, how do you think you can afford to buy one? So yeah 40% of the population, take credits to afford a home, and they are gonna be debt burned all their life, just to repay that fucking apartment, because houses here are a luxury in big cities, mostly for the rich(if you don't come from the poor villages). And don't let me tell you about the quality of the apartments, built with the cheapest materials, just to make a profit.

The main thing I've learned from my father, is to never take on debt. My father came from a really poor background, having 12 siblings, barely having anything to eat. By the time he was 12 years old, his father made him sell honey by the railway so he can pay rent just to stay in his father's home. He used to steal food from colleagues in school, so he could give it back to his siblings. He had to work hard his entire life, travelling abroad working for years so his family could have food on the table, considering my mother didn't work a single day in her life.

I remember when I started highschool, I only had 1 outfit to wear every single day.(I remember one day even wearing my mother's jeans, because I literally had nothing to wear) My father was re-investing all the money he was making, and we only had the basic necessities. After beeing mocked at school by my classmates every day, one day I got the courage to go to my dad and ask him for some money to buy new clothes, because I never even had the courage to ask him for money. He told me, if you want money, you have to work for it, so he had a plantation of strawberries on a field, and he brought me on a weekend to work for 10 hours. I remember I was exhausted, every worker from there was laughing at me, at how my father makes me work for him with the other workers. At the end of the day, my father gave me 15$, for 10 hours of working the field in the sun. I remember beeing so mad, breaking my back 10 hours only for 15$, I couldn't even buy myself a pair of sneakers. That was the moment I knew that I would never do this again, and that in life if you don't create something for yourself, nobody will help you. I've made my father a promise that day, that I will have more money in life than he ever will. And do you know what he told me? Maybe on the moon. I remember clearly, that was the breaking point for me, as soon as I got home, I went to my computer and searched for: "how to make money online".

7 years fast forward? Now I have my own business, employees, live alone, properties, my own car, without a single help from my parents. I've worked my ass off, every single day, while others were partying, I was reading and reading, most of the nights falling asleep on the keyboard. It was a hard journey, I had to sacrifice a lot, from having experiences with girls, going out with the guys, going to parties, etc. But I don't regret anything, because at the end of the day, I know I am a better man because of it.

My whole point is that, this new generation is pussified. They don't really know what hard work is, everybody is used with instant gratification because of the internet, techonology in general and social media impact on our lives. And when you also come from a poor country, your options are so limited, no wonder 99% of my peers feel so lost. It's a sad reality we live in, as someone said before, only you are responsable for your life, and you have to make the right decisions, otherwise you will be left behind.

Sebip, comparing incomes between the US and some other country is a fallacy unless you also compare costs.

The US is a high-income, high-cost nation. That's just the way it is. We are mandated to pay $24k per year in health insurance (for a family of 4). Food is expensive. Gas is expensive, and most americans live in regions where driving is mandatory to survive.

The point is, our costs have been driven up wildly (400% increase in past 30 years) while incomes have remained stagnant. Americans work HARDER and LONGER than you do. Sure we have nice clothes, but those cost nothing so that's meaningless.

Every single time I read somebody complaining about how the modern generation of Americans are "lazy" -- that's bullshit. Sorry. It's pure bullshit and just another cheap way of ignoring what's really going on.

It's so easy to call somebody ELSE lazy.

I didn't call anyone lazy, my point was that U.S has way more opportunities to make it, compared with other countries. And regarding the cost of living, I know in some places in U.S is really high, but at the same time, as I mentioned, the basic necessities, like food, grocceries, clothes in my country are at the same prices, and the average income in my country is 500-600$ a month.

You are talking about healthcare, we don't even have that luxury. Everybody here knows that if you are sick, you go to a private clinic, otherwise you are at a risk of getting more diseases if you go to a state owned hospital.

You are talking about gas, do you know how much we pay here for a liter of gas? 1.40$

About working harder and longer, this is also relative. In every country there are people who work harder and longer, and some people who don't really stress themselves. But if we are talking about the middle class, let me tell you that we didn't even have a term like 9-5, as you have. The middle class here, especially a few years back, had to work for 8-12 hours. I have friends who work as waiters, and sometimes they even pull 16 hours, for 500$ a month.

My point was that, no matter where you are born, or the circumstances, you need to make smart choices and work hard if you want financial freedom, it wasn't my intention to bash U.S or any other country.
(This post was last modified: 12-31-2018 02:42 PM by sebip.)
12-31-2018 02:35 PM
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Post: #85
RE: 40% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck
(12-29-2018 06:10 PM)Roosh Wrote:  The problem seems to be a combination of stagnant incomes, high debt, and living beyond one's means.

Quote:They’ve tried to save — but rent, child care, student loans, and medical bills get in the way.

Four in 10 adults say they couldn't produce $400 in an emergency without sliding into debt or selling something, according to the 2017 figures.


“Given the high cost of transportation, housing, health care. … There is often no wriggle room.”

“I see no way out,” he wrote in an email to the Post. “I am 40, have built a strong career, have 17 years experience, and if something were to happen to me, my wife and kids would be homeless within a year when my life insurance ran out.”

“It’s a scramble at the end of a paycheck to deposit my tips and make sure none of my automatic payments bounce,” said Webb, who has a master’s degree but cannot make her student loan payments.

She's grateful to work in her field, though, and loves her job. One big financial boost, she said, awaits her at the end of 2019.

“I can finally pay off my nine-year-old car,” Webb said. “The plastic part of the back bumper was slowly sliding off the back of it. I got rear-ended by an uninsured driver two years ago, so I reattached it with zip ties.”

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12-31-2018 03:05 PM
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Post: #86
RE: 40% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck
I see both points being valid. Looking at life in the third world shithole where I grew up vs my life in the US with a 9 to 5 grind, I can tell you that Americans are not lazy. We work long hours and put up with some terrible quality of life. Long commutes, lack of community, no time for health and recreation, disfunctional families, consumerist culture... I could go on. But the American system is also large and generally fair. People love to hate on the government but in general it meets the needs of its citizens. There is opportunity in America if you hustle.

Compare that to my birth country where the whole system is corrupt and inefficient. People can't move up unless they have connections. Hard work and merit mean nothing. There is no middle class. But also people are generally lazy. They live day to day. My aunt is poor but she also sleeps 10hrs per night. She hustles to make ends meet but also doesn't realize that her lack of motivation is what's kept her at the same economic state all her life. She thinks my mom lives a rich luxurious lifestyle in the USA. My dad makes $10/hr working at a kwik e mart. Nothing is easy.

In the end both situations suck, just for different reasons. Smart people experiment and hustle to figure out what works and what doesn't. Living below means to reduce costs and create savings is step 1. Then figure out a niche or a path to avoid the mistakes of the masses.
(This post was last modified: 12-31-2018 03:15 PM by monsquid.)
12-31-2018 03:13 PM
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MidJack Offline
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Post: #87
RE: 40% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck
I want to smoke dope
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But I have to work
12-31-2018 03:28 PM
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mickeyd Offline
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Post: #88
RE: 40% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck
I think its unfair to compare US to the 3rd world. by circumstance of resources and stability, americans will always be richer than the 3rd world. The point of this thread is that based on the data and our experiences the US is trending DOWN towards 3rd world numbers. We arent close to it yet but a trend over a period of a very long time will show a result, results that are noticeable in 2018 as compared to 1980. And if these trends continue we will continue to move towards the 3rd world, to what end? Brazilification is real and hearing a bunch of pick me up stories about how someone got rich by working harder than the rest wont change that.

But i think its fair to say you still shouldnt bitch about your own personal circumstances, adapt or die, there is no other way out.
12-31-2018 03:32 PM
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renotime Offline
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Post: #89
RE: 40% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck
I think if people stopped buying houses that would alleviate most of their problems.

Houses are fucking expensive. And it's not like someone making 100k a year buys an 80k house in blue collar working neighborhood. They buy a 300k house. And then they have to buy all the shit to put in the house. And that's 300k for a second tier state in second tier city.

So before you even buy the house you have to pay 20 percent down putting you out 60k. Then you get to make payments to the bank.

So instead of renting a house you're renting money from the bank.

You want to know the only thing you can assume about a broken down old man? It's that he's a survivor.
12-31-2018 04:09 PM
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Disco_Volante Offline
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Post: #90
RE: 40% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck
I live paycheck to paycheck but I've taken a wild risk sinking money into my startup that has yet to pan out. I think owning something like a rental unit or a business is the way to go, and I see that as a worthy risk and pursuit. I'm broke because I'm too ambitious, if that makes sense.
(This post was last modified: 12-31-2018 04:33 PM by Disco_Volante.)
12-31-2018 04:32 PM
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Post: #91
RE: 40% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck
And yet women still don't care to date rich responsible "betas"!
12-31-2018 07:11 PM
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Post: #92
RE: 40% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck
Gas is expensive? Where the fuck do you live because gas is 1.55 a gallon in Oklahoma City and 1.78 in Dallas.

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12-31-2018 07:45 PM
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godzilla Offline
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Post: #93
RE: 40% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck
the Apple iPhone product has a 39% market share in mobile. Samsung is at 25% (though has some cheap products). A cheap android phone is between $100-$200.

The average household size has gone from about 4 to 2.5. in the last 50 years.

The average American household owns 2 cars. Many are luxury cars or trucks, an excessive purchase for many of them.

The average new construction single family home is 2600 sq ft, which I believe is the largest in the world.

We are fat as fuck because we eat too much not too little.

Dont feel sorry for Americans, they live well beyond their means. Healthcare is too expensive though. I feel bad for people who have to go through that shit.
12-31-2018 08:19 PM
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MrLemon Offline
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Post: #94
RE: 40% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck
(12-31-2018 02:35 PM)sebip Wrote:  
(12-31-2018 02:21 PM)MrLemon Wrote:  
(12-31-2018 12:39 PM)sebip Wrote:  I think the main problems, as have been pointed before, are the debt and living below your means. But at the same time, reading through the thread, I just can't believe how good you have it in the US. Talking about 40-130k year income, so many facilities, opportunities, it's unbelievable.

I come from a 3rd world country in EE, and do you want to know what's considered a good income here? 12-15k$ a year, that's a good fucking income. And some families, with 2-3 kids, live only from that. And another fucked up thing? We have the major big corporations, with the big supermarkets, and everything, but the prices? The prices are the same as in tier1 geos. So imagine having to live with that.

I am a young guy, 23 years old. Do you want to know what all my peers are thinking about? Move to another country to manage to put some scrapes aside, and to make a living, or get a 500-800$ monthly job here, getting abused in every possible way. You talk about people buying expensive cars on a debt, we take a debt to buy those 2nd hand used cars from you.

One of the main advantages though is that real estate is way more less expensive than in the US, but with 12-15k annual income, how do you think you can afford to buy one? So yeah 40% of the population, take credits to afford a home, and they are gonna be debt burned all their life, just to repay that fucking apartment, because houses here are a luxury in big cities, mostly for the rich(if you don't come from the poor villages). And don't let me tell you about the quality of the apartments, built with the cheapest materials, just to make a profit.

The main thing I've learned from my father, is to never take on debt. My father came from a really poor background, having 12 siblings, barely having anything to eat. By the time he was 12 years old, his father made him sell honey by the railway so he can pay rent just to stay in his father's home. He used to steal food from colleagues in school, so he could give it back to his siblings. He had to work hard his entire life, travelling abroad working for years so his family could have food on the table, considering my mother didn't work a single day in her life.

I remember when I started highschool, I only had 1 outfit to wear every single day.(I remember one day even wearing my mother's jeans, because I literally had nothing to wear) My father was re-investing all the money he was making, and we only had the basic necessities. After beeing mocked at school by my classmates every day, one day I got the courage to go to my dad and ask him for some money to buy new clothes, because I never even had the courage to ask him for money. He told me, if you want money, you have to work for it, so he had a plantation of strawberries on a field, and he brought me on a weekend to work for 10 hours. I remember I was exhausted, every worker from there was laughing at me, at how my father makes me work for him with the other workers. At the end of the day, my father gave me 15$, for 10 hours of working the field in the sun. I remember beeing so mad, breaking my back 10 hours only for 15$, I couldn't even buy myself a pair of sneakers. That was the moment I knew that I would never do this again, and that in life if you don't create something for yourself, nobody will help you. I've made my father a promise that day, that I will have more money in life than he ever will. And do you know what he told me? Maybe on the moon. I remember clearly, that was the breaking point for me, as soon as I got home, I went to my computer and searched for: "how to make money online".

7 years fast forward? Now I have my own business, employees, live alone, properties, my own car, without a single help from my parents. I've worked my ass off, every single day, while others were partying, I was reading and reading, most of the nights falling asleep on the keyboard. It was a hard journey, I had to sacrifice a lot, from having experiences with girls, going out with the guys, going to parties, etc. But I don't regret anything, because at the end of the day, I know I am a better man because of it.

My whole point is that, this new generation is pussified. They don't really know what hard work is, everybody is used with instant gratification because of the internet, techonology in general and social media impact on our lives. And when you also come from a poor country, your options are so limited, no wonder 99% of my peers feel so lost. It's a sad reality we live in, as someone said before, only you are responsable for your life, and you have to make the right decisions, otherwise you will be left behind.

Sebip, comparing incomes between the US and some other country is a fallacy unless you also compare costs.

The US is a high-income, high-cost nation. That's just the way it is. We are mandated to pay $24k per year in health insurance (for a family of 4). Food is expensive. Gas is expensive, and most americans live in regions where driving is mandatory to survive.

The point is, our costs have been driven up wildly (400% increase in past 30 years) while incomes have remained stagnant. Americans work HARDER and LONGER than you do. Sure we have nice clothes, but those cost nothing so that's meaningless.

Every single time I read somebody complaining about how the modern generation of Americans are "lazy" -- that's bullshit. Sorry. It's pure bullshit and just another cheap way of ignoring what's really going on.

It's so easy to call somebody ELSE lazy.

I didn't call anyone lazy, my point was that U.S has way more opportunities to make it, compared with other countries. And regarding the cost of living, I know in some places in U.S is really high, but at the same time, as I mentioned, the basic necessities, like food, grocceries, clothes in my country are at the same prices, and the average income in my country is 500-600$ a month.

You are talking about healthcare, we don't even have that luxury. Everybody here knows that if you are sick, you go to a private clinic, otherwise you are at a risk of getting more diseases if you go to a state owned hospital.

You are talking about gas, do you know how much we pay here for a liter of gas? 1.40$

About working harder and longer, this is also relative. In every country there are people who work harder and longer, and some people who don't really stress themselves. But if we are talking about the middle class, let me tell you that we didn't even have a term like 9-5, as you have. The middle class here, especially a few years back, had to work for 8-12 hours. I have friends who work as waiters, and sometimes they even pull 16 hours, for 500$ a month.

My point was that, no matter where you are born, or the circumstances, you need to make smart choices and work hard if you want financial freedom, it wasn't my intention to bash U.S or any other country.

No problem, I wasn't trying to bash you back. I just want to point out to be careful when comparing. The standard of living for the USA has dropped dramatically in the past 30 years. But the government, the hospitals, the police, they don't want to admit that. They keep raising their costs as if we are all rich.

That is a revolution ready to go. Most of the entire midwestern region of the US is in a depression that is crushing people, destroying families and communities, and people are mad because they know who is behind that fuckery. These people have guns, and they are prepping to use them.

The US military rules the world. You do not want a revolution in the heart of that military power. No sir. Baaaad idea.
12-31-2018 10:00 PM
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Post: #95
RE: 40% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck
(12-31-2018 02:21 PM)MrLemon Wrote:  [quote='sebip' pid='1913344' dateline='1546277943']
Snip

The US is a high-income, high-cost nation. That's just the way it is. We are mandated to pay $24k per year in health insurance (for a family of 4). Food is expensive. Gas is expensive, and most americans live in regions where driving is mandatory to survive.

The point is, our costs have been driven up wildly (400% increase in past 30 years) while incomes have remained stagnant. Americans work HARDER and LONGER than you do. Sure we have nice clothes, but those cost nothing so that's meaningless.

Every single time I read somebody complaining about how the modern generation of Americans are "lazy" -- that's bullshit. Sorry. It's pure bullshit and just another cheap way of ignoring what's really going on.

It's so easy to call somebody ELSE lazy.


High-income paired with high-cost is almost no different than poverty.

Its like having all the money but nothing to buy it with.
(This post was last modified: 12-31-2018 10:57 PM by infowarrior1.)
12-31-2018 10:56 PM
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MongolianAbroad Offline
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Post: #96
RE: 40% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck
(12-31-2018 08:19 PM)godzilla Wrote:  the Apple iPhone product has a 39% market share in mobile. Samsung is at 25% (though has some cheap products). A cheap android phone is between $100-$200.

The average household size has gone from about 4 to 2.5. in the last 50 years.

The average American household owns 2 cars. Many are luxury cars or trucks, an excessive purchase for many of them.

The average new construction single family home is 2600 sq ft, which I believe is the largest in the world.

We are fat as fuck because we eat too much not too little.

Dont feel sorry for Americans, they live well beyond their means. Healthcare is too expensive though. I feel bad for people who have to go through that shit.

Exactly.

This is a self-made problem for 99% of Americans. Healthcare cases excepted. If you want to make something of yourself, there's probably no place in the world that's better for accomplishing that than America.

If you want to be a Joe Blow in regards to finances, then America is still better than most of the rest of the world barring some of the 1st world socialist countries.

The people here complaining are really saying, "It's getting harder to be Joe Blow in America! Soon we'll be like Joe Blow in the rest of the world! We're losing all the advantages we've had since 1950 when we were the only man left standing and everyone had no choice but to buy from us because Germany and Japan were in ruins!"

Yeah man, welcome to the real world, that artificial, post-war 1950's bubble has been deflating for a long time, and it's going to continue doing so.

Now, am I saying America shouldn't enact new policies that might ameliorate some of the problems described in this thread? No, not at all, if solutions can be implemented on a national level to improve the lot of the masses, then that's wonderful, I would like to have access to affordable healthcare, it would be nice if a guy could just drop in to a factory with a high school diploma and make $40/hr on day one with benefits. Hey, if that can be done, I'm all for it! But until then, and whether it can be done is up for debate, until then, each man has to look around at the opportunities in front of him and make the most of them.

And to find those opportunities, it's helpful to understand just how privileged we are as Americans compared to most of the rest of the world. Once you understand that, you can be thankful that America is still the land of opportunity, and act on it.
(This post was last modified: 01-01-2019 12:00 AM by MongolianAbroad.)
12-31-2018 11:08 PM
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Post: #97
RE: 40% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck
(12-29-2018 07:05 PM)Day Game Bang Wrote:  
Quote:Remove all women from the workforce (except for feminine type jobs

Women can be good teachers (high school level and below) and doctors. My current doctor is a early 30's woman and she has been caring. Any sort of illness or problems I have, she genuinely is trying to help me. And she is smart/competent too. Women are biologically more warmhearted than men and work well in healthcare.

uhhh...no...
01-01-2019 03:22 AM
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Sp5 Offline
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Post: #98
RE: 40% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck
Not surprising. It's going to get worse with robots and algorithm management.
I'm old enough to have watched the process.
High value-added, high wage manufacturing jobs exported to low wage, unregulated/bribed countries.
Full time service jobs with benefits and pensions converted into part time no-benefit jobs or outsourced.
Full time government jobs privatized and split into part time jobs.
Low price government services (eg parking, transit) privatized and prices jacked up
Consumer protection weakened so that every contract (eg telcom, rentals, credit) is a fine-print ripoff with no redress.
Healthcare an obscenely expensive and complicated maze.
Corporations as "legal persons" are basically psychopaths whose only object is to maximize shareholder return, even if it be at the expense of your health, aggregate demand, the environment, the rule of law, or national security.
Many if not most of American politicians have become conscious or unconscious agents of these psychopaths.
Even feminism is a product of capitalist unconscious agency. As pointed out, women in the workplace depressed wages. Giving women control over more money also allowed them to buy the bling they live to buy.
01-01-2019 06:37 AM
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ssvle Offline
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Post: #99
RE: 40% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck
The same applies to Europe, I believe.
I once went to the bank and asked to cash in a check (my first sales, Amazon sent me checks) and the guy, who runs the branch, did this for me. He then saw my credit (paid of in 2023) and said that it's unique that I pay it off 12% per year, instead of reducing it 1% per year (= which is pretty much nothing). He said most borrowers don't pay it off at all, they just pay the interest but no principal.
So I do believe there are a lot of people living life on the edge, financially.

The next years won't get better either:
- stock market losses / volatility
- massive price increases for real estate (rent too, I live in the most expensive town in Germany and I've got colleagues paying 1800€ for 70 sqm.)
- Globalisation leads to lower wages for those living in high cost-countries
- massive pressure to save money even in large corporations (I work in one of Munichs biggest and there is right now another round of cost-cutting going on)
- states have debt exceeding 100% of annual gdp
- automatisation
- 0% interest rate -> interest rate redutction won't work anymore
- in Germany, in the next 10 years until 2030, many high-paid boomers become pensioners (now it's 2.3 employees for one pensioner, in 2030: 1.5 employees per pensioner) -> same applies in other countries
- "diversity" comes with a massive cost (for bullshit industries like security as well)

So yeah the next years won't be better. As for the women in the workforce, I totally concur. It's just not happening, instead it'll intensify in the other direction. The west is dead, folks, that's my opinion. "Brazifilification" is a good word to put the west's future direction. Brazil is expensive, too, so that figures.

I 'd be interested in what strategies you guys are applying?
Working for a minimum wage at walmart is bs, I don't want to live a nasty life. Also it's a loser's mindset thinking that you're not worth more than this.
I'm building a skill set that can be used internationally (in case of emigration) and I'm building income streams from the internet. What are you guys doing?
01-01-2019 08:37 AM
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Post: #100
RE: 40% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck
There is a simple solution, that I promise you everybody will scream about at first, then gradually come to accept. This is the big one, the main solution, and all the other suggestions I read in this thread are puny in comparison.

To stop the bleeding out of the American economy, we need to stop ALL manufactured goods and tech product importation from China, India, Vietnam, Africa, and all low-wage nations. End of discussion.

Move all manufacturing and software developing back into the US. Enforce that with massive fines.

There's nothing we need from them. There's really nothing they need from us. All our nations now have manufacturing capacities and natural resources that are, for all purposes, infinite, maybe except for a few raw materials like Aluminum or Uranium or rare metals, but that's trivial.

Free trade was invented in a past era, when there were natural walls (oceans and financial obstacles) that kept it under control.
With the reduction of trade friction due to huge container ships and internet-based funds transfer, allowing free trade with China/India is essentially allowing them to suck every penny out of our economy.

100% of offshoring has a single purpose: to impoverish US workers. That is the sole purpose of offshoring and every corporate executive knows it.

Free trade was a great idea...except that it collided with the twin trends of massive worldwide shipping and the Internet. That changed free trade into the single worst idea ever in the history of the human politics. Future economists will marvel at how stupid we were to allow it.

As a starting point for this process, pass a constitutional amendment: "No tax money shall be spent on labor or materials from non-US citizens". That's just the first step but will set the path forward.
(This post was last modified: 01-01-2019 01:38 PM by MrLemon.)
01-01-2019 01:32 PM
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