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What’s your ‘flake rate’ from night number closes
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ShuaiGe Offline
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Post: #26
RE: What’s your ‘flake rate’ from night number closes
(01-07-2019 02:17 AM)corsega Wrote:  I tracked all 47 nightgame numbers I collected in 2018. Zero of them resulted in dates.

[Image: ItD2qNz.png]

Repping you for daring to post this.

Anyway, I get blown out all night at the club and very few numbers i get turn into anything too. However, I would say that you should continue to run game during the day, girls will be much friendlier and polite and it makes the whole experience better in my opinion.

I get numbers from 1 out of 3 girls i talk to during the day (being white in china), of those about one half want to message me, and of those one in 3 or so will agree to hangout, actual results vary.
01-08-2019 02:24 AM
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Beirut Offline
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Post: #27
RE: What’s your ‘flake rate’ from night number closes
(01-08-2019 12:52 AM)corsega Wrote:  
(01-08-2019 12:23 AM)Beirut Wrote:  Maybe 90 percent of girls i banged have been from nightlife numbers.

I guess it depends on you as well. Im not programmed to go for ONS much so im fine with collecting numbers. I never bothered ro count flake rates nor will i but i dont think its high. I also dont do spam approaching so maybe i spend more time than average on one or two girls

If i leave with a girls number from nighglife and i like her i feel reasonably good about my odds with her

How long are you spending with these girls?

As long as i feel the vibe is right. Theres no point number farming 50 girls a night with weak numbers. Focus on one or two that youre into and make sure the connection is solid.

Maybe you are going to high paced dancefloor centric clubs where the interactions tend to be quicker? However night venues vary a lot from that model.

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01-08-2019 06:39 PM
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Rocha Offline
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Post: #28
RE: What’s your ‘flake rate’ from night number closes
(01-08-2019 02:00 AM)The_e_man Wrote:  Here's a bit of wisdom regarding night game:

If you ain't taking her home that night, you likely ain't ever taking her home at all.

That is mostly true with tourist girls in your city, or when a guy is traveling to other city. Though I have banged tourists (including american) after only getting the contact (number, instagram, facebook...) in a bar in a given night, and then we met other day where I sealed the deal.

With local girls in your local city, or medium/long term staying girls (students, expats, etc), I strongly disagree with this statement.

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(This post was last modified: 01-08-2019 07:42 PM by Rocha.)
01-08-2019 07:41 PM
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MaceTyrell Offline
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Post: #29
RE: What’s your ‘flake rate’ from night number closes
(01-07-2019 02:17 AM)corsega Wrote:  I tracked all 47 nightgame numbers I collected in 2018. Zero of them resulted in dates.

[Image: ItD2qNz.png]

First, I'd like to formally apologize for giving Corsega shit on his Tinder thread many months ago. I immensely appreciate him being open and honest about this.

See how one can absolutely slaughter it in one lane (Tinder) and have horrible results in another? (nightgame)

Really helped me slowly stop beating myself up over being horrible at night game, despite supposedly having what RVF would call nightgame-helpful advantages (6'3, black, bankroll).
01-10-2019 07:13 PM
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wonderman Offline
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Post: #30
RE: What’s your ‘flake rate’ from night number closes
My flake rate depends extremely age, location, looks and sympathy.

I used to visit lots of under18 partys until recently (until 36), I easily got 1-3 numbers per night, including kissing here and there. But dates? Not often. Maybe 1 out of 40, maybe less (then again I almost never spent more than 30min with a girl because I got bored earlier, kissing or not).

If my only purpose was to get a better flake rate, I'd approach women 35y+, average looks, who looked friendly. If I did that, I guess the flake rate would be very low.

Conclusion? Without context (pickup video from you, your age, your locations, the women you target), the question doesn't make sense.
01-11-2019 09:45 AM
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corsega Offline
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Post: #31
RE: What’s your ‘flake rate’ from night number closes
(01-08-2019 06:39 PM)Beirut Wrote:  
(01-08-2019 12:52 AM)corsega Wrote:  
(01-08-2019 12:23 AM)Beirut Wrote:  Maybe 90 percent of girls i banged have been from nightlife numbers.

I guess it depends on you as well. Im not programmed to go for ONS much so im fine with collecting numbers. I never bothered ro count flake rates nor will i but i dont think its high. I also dont do spam approaching so maybe i spend more time than average on one or two girls

If i leave with a girls number from nighglife and i like her i feel reasonably good about my odds with her

How long are you spending with these girls?

As long as i feel the vibe is right. Theres no point number farming 50 girls a night with weak numbers. Focus on one or two that youre into and make sure the connection is solid.

Maybe you are going to high paced dancefloor centric clubs where the interactions tend to be quicker? However night venues vary a lot from that model.

Yes, I tend to prefer the Vegas-style big nightclubs. I usually just get the number because it's so loud you can't even talk to a girl.

Though only 40% of the above numbers were from those type of venues.

(01-10-2019 07:13 PM)MaceTyrell Wrote:  First, I'd like to formally apologize for giving Corsega shit on his Tinder thread many months ago. I immensely appreciate him being open and honest about this.

See how one can absolutely slaughter it in one lane (Tinder) and have horrible results in another? (nightgame)

Really helped me slowly stop beating myself up over being horrible at night game, despite supposedly having what RVF would call nightgame-helpful advantages (6'3, black, bankroll).

Yeah, all types of game (social circle, online, night game, daygame) are just different beasts. Some of the skills are transferable, but not all.

Online is the "easiest" because once you have everything set up in advance, closing is quite simple. Daygame and nightgame have much more complexity.

My blog - skeptical, data-driven takes on daygame, online game, and more
01-11-2019 12:11 PM
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The_e_man Offline
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Post: #32
RE: What’s your ‘flake rate’ from night number closes
(01-08-2019 07:41 PM)Rocha Wrote:  
(01-08-2019 02:00 AM)The_e_man Wrote:  Here's a bit of wisdom regarding night game:

If you ain't taking her home that night, you likely ain't ever taking her home at all.

That is mostly true with tourist girls in your city, or when a guy is traveling to other city. Though I have banged tourists (including american) after only getting the contact (number, instagram, facebook...) in a bar in a given night, and then we met other day where I sealed the deal.

With local girls in your local city, or medium/long term staying girls (students, expats, etc), I strongly disagree with this statement.

We can disagree and still both be right in a way.
I firmly think if a girl (especially a western girl, I live in Canada) wants to fuck you, she will do it that night. The number is nothing more than a soft rejection or - if she's a low SMV girl herself - a way of funnelling you into the "orbiters that text me and give me attention and try to chill with me" camp. A really hot (i.e. high SMV) girl won't even bother with having a random guy from the bar being her orbiter - she already has tons of higher value guys filling that role.

Where our source of disagreement may come from, is perhaps you aren't in a western society where girls are much more free and open with their promiscuous lifestyles. In that case, the number and waiting game are a necessary part of the process.

Over here, that's certainly not the case with most girls and I'll repeat again: If she ain't fucking you tonight, she's probably never gonna fuck you.

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The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference
01-11-2019 02:07 PM
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Post: #33
RE: What’s your ‘flake rate’ from night number closes
From my experience, even in the West it really depends on the type of night venue where the interaction happened.

If you're meeting a girl at a club or a high-energy bar with loud music/cheap booze, then I completely agree. In these venues girls are younger, more likely to be drunk or on party drugs, and generally have a shorter attention span to where they forget they even met you the next day. Unless you're inviting her to "afterparty" at your place after meeting early in the night, grabbing a number in these venues is meaningless. I remember I'd grab 10 numbers/night at a big club and be exhilarated, and then get home and get zero replies. Nowadays if I get a club number, I text her that same night to invite her over to my place, otherwise I've learned its a dead end.

Meanwhile if you're meeting a girl at a quieter bar/lounge, or in more of a social circle setting (house party, table at a bar where you know ppl), then a number can absolutely work IF she was invested in the conversation and you're able to get her out on a date within the next week or two at most. I'd say the majority of my nightgame pulls have been of this variety rather than pure ONS. You can also substitute IG for a number depending on the type of girl you're going after.

For a guy inexperienced with nightgame (or somebody who only wants ONS), a good rule of thumb is to not put much hope on numbers and really go for a girl until you get rejected. I think as one gets more acquainted with the night scene in a specific city, it becomes easier to put the value of a number into context and decide whether to push exclusively for the same night or be content with moving onto other chicks with a number in the pocket.
01-11-2019 03:11 PM
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The_e_man Offline
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Post: #34
RE: What’s your ‘flake rate’ from night number closes
^^^

Very well said, RDF.

Grant me serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference
01-11-2019 05:53 PM
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Beirut Offline
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Post: #35
RE: What’s your ‘flake rate’ from night number closes
(01-11-2019 12:11 PM)corsega Wrote:  Yes, I tend to prefer the Vegas-style big nightclubs. I usually just get the number because it's so loud you can't even talk to a girl.

Though only 40% of the above numbers were from those type of venues.

Well if youre in a vegas style town with lots of short termers then you definitely wont be getting a lot of dates.

If youre in a more stable crowd town and want to hit those venues then you should become a regular and have a crew and then the numbers will be more solid cause you can join groups and nightlife outings.

You replace the comfort of conversation with that of being regulars at the same spots or of being a known guy in the towns nightlife circles.

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01-11-2019 06:15 PM
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corsega Offline
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Post: #36
RE: What’s your ‘flake rate’ from night number closes
(01-11-2019 03:11 PM)RDF Wrote:  From my experience, even in the West it really depends on the type of night venue where the interaction happened.

If you're meeting a girl at a club or a high-energy bar with loud music/cheap booze, then I completely agree. In these venues girls are younger, more likely to be drunk or on party drugs, and generally have a shorter attention span to where they forget they even met you the next day. Unless you're inviting her to "afterparty" at your place after meeting early in the night, grabbing a number in these venues is meaningless. I remember I'd grab 10 numbers/night at a big club and be exhilarated, and then get home and get zero replies. Nowadays if I get a club number, I text her that same night to invite her over to my place, otherwise I've learned its a dead end.

Meanwhile if you're meeting a girl at a quieter bar/lounge, or in more of a social circle setting (house party, table at a bar where you know ppl), then a number can absolutely work IF she was invested in the conversation and you're able to get her out on a date within the next week or two at most. I'd say the majority of my nightgame pulls have been of this variety rather than pure ONS. You can also substitute IG for a number depending on the type of girl you're going after.

For a guy inexperienced with nightgame (or somebody who only wants ONS), a good rule of thumb is to not put much hope on numbers and really go for a girl until you get rejected. I think as one gets more acquainted with the night scene in a specific city, it becomes easier to put the value of a number into context and decide whether to push exclusively for the same night or be content with moving onto other chicks with a number in the pocket.

That's really useful advice.

I'm surprised that more nightgame advice doesn't talk about the differences between venues:

Bars
Lounges
Clubs
Music Festivals

etc.

Everyone just tends to lump them under "nightgame", but in my opinion, each requires a different style of game.

My blog - skeptical, data-driven takes on daygame, online game, and more
01-11-2019 06:38 PM
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Delta Offline
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Post: #37
RE: What’s your ‘flake rate’ from night number closes
(01-08-2019 12:52 AM)corsega Wrote:  Yeah, that's probably true. A lot of these are quick hitters. If the logistics aren't right I don't bother staying in set, I just try to seed the date for later in the week. I'd say most of these are like 15 second to 5 minute interactions.

(01-08-2019 12:52 AM)corsega Wrote:  No makeouts. I've only made out with a girl in a club twice. I typically approach like 30+ sets a night in a big club, because you can be more anonymous. In a smaller venue, much less, as I want to avoid looking like a spam approach monkey.

My dude, if you're going for the number close that quickly, she'll view you as a spam approach monkey regardless of whether she sees you approach anyone else. It looks desperate, like you have no standards beyond looks. She needs to feel like she earned it.

Believe me I learned this the hard way too, but you need to hone in on the ones you genuinely like and take the time to develop a connection. One warm lead is better than 8 who just gave you a # so you'd leave them alone.
01-12-2019 01:02 AM
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godzilla Offline
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Post: #38
RE: What’s your ‘flake rate’ from night number closes
Whether you're in a bar, club or whatever, the first thing you need to do is to start escalating almost immediately. Girls who are drinking are far more receptive to touching if they're actually interested. Escalating will also scare off tons of the girls who have no interest in you other than talking and wasting your time. The process should take a little bit of time. 5 minutes is usually not enough unless you're on the dance floor or something.
01-12-2019 02:42 PM
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The_e_man Offline
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Post: #39
RE: What’s your ‘flake rate’ from night number closes
(01-12-2019 02:42 PM)godzilla Wrote:  Whether you're in a bar, club or whatever, the first thing you need to do is to start escalating almost immediately. Girls who are drinking are far more receptive to touching if they're actually interested. Escalating will also scare off tons of the girls who have no interest in you other than talking and wasting your time. The process should take a little bit of time. 5 minutes is usually not enough unless you're on the dance floor or something.

Yep, basic screening game. Almost feel like this thread may be better served in the newbie section.

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01-13-2019 01:25 AM
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whiteknightrises Offline
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Post: #40
RE: What’s your ‘flake rate’ from night number closes
Who cares

Guys who are keeping spreadsheets on something like fucking bitches are not getting laid

While you are tracking your "flake rate"

Chad Thundercock is just out there talking to more girls (and trying to fuck them)

Simplified version:
Look good, be aggressive.

You aren't getting laid because you still believe in "game".

Here's how I went from being a 21-year-old, videogame-addicted, Asian virgin to banging too many girls to count (no PUA bs):

https://whiteknightrises.com/start-here

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01-13-2019 03:19 AM
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MaceTyrell Offline
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Post: #41
RE: What’s your ‘flake rate’ from night number closes
(01-13-2019 03:19 AM)whiteknightrises Wrote:  Who cares

Guys who are keeping spreadsheets on something like fucking bitches are not getting laid

While you are tracking your "flake rate"

Chad Thundercock is just out there talking to more girls (and trying to fuck them)

Simplified version:
Look good, be aggressive.

Ah yes, Chad Thundercock - the trope all men on RVF aspire to be yet none of us are.

Corsega got more pussy than both of us combined last year, while getting flaked on by 47 girls from nightgame.

RSD spam approaching is just a numbers game. You learn nothing about yourself in the process - you just get laid due to the law of averages. You'd almost be as well suited just taking the RSD approach and applying it on Tinder.

Some of us are, I dunno, intellectuals who actually enjoy optimizing processes. Tracking it in a spreadsheet is really not that hard either - literally takes probably 2 minutes a day.
01-13-2019 03:25 AM
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corsega Offline
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Post: #42
RE: What’s your ‘flake rate’ from night number closes
(01-13-2019 03:19 AM)whiteknightrises Wrote:  Who cares

Guys who are keeping spreadsheets on something like fucking bitches are not getting laid

While you are tracking your "flake rate"

Chad Thundercock is just out there talking to more girls (and trying to fuck them)

Simplified version:
Look good, be aggressive.

Overly reductive, as you can do all three.

I look good (my #1 priority), am aggressive, AND I track shit.

P.S. your vaunted Chad is getting blanked by nightgame numbers just like all of us ;-)

My blog - skeptical, data-driven takes on daygame, online game, and more
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01-13-2019 03:48 PM
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