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Women: degree of self-awareness (interest in a man)
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wonderman Offline
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Women: degree of self-awareness (interest in a man)
I got a lot of "sorry, I'm not interested" from women. I guess a few hundred times after dates. A few thousand times during daygame/nightgame. And a few ten thousand times directly or indirectly on the Internet.

A lot of times, especially after a date or even during daygame, I asked those women "it's ok that you're not interested, but I'm wondering, can you tell me the reason? I'm just wondering..".

You know, I'm single since ever, i.e. I do daygame/nightgame/online game for about 20 years now. So I asked this question a lot. The older I got, the more often I asked. Age range betw. 16-55.

The result: I never really got a detailed answer. I got some meta-answers, but mostly, the answers didn't contain a lot of "substance". In the end, 95% of all the women just said "I don't know" or "it's just my feeling".

My question to you, to the community:

What is the average capacity of self-awareness of women, in this regard, in certain age-ranges? Do you believe women are just not interested in providing the brain power it needs to find out why she is not interested or do you think they mostly do know it, but they don't want to communicate it, due to different reasons?

I personally think most younger girls simply live to a high degree on autopilot in this regard. They don't care enough on self-reflecting all the time on such issues, they do it on a subconscious level, but are not yet capable of communicating it. Plus, they probably don't have enough compassion yet to have developed a moral codex that would obligate them somehow to communicate their conclusions/feelings up to a certain degree. And the older they get, the higher the chance that they communicate their inner feelings/their thoughts.

But that's just my opininon. What's yours? What are your experiences you've made?

I'm not interested in a discussion about "why are you interested in the answer?". I'm simply interested in the answer. I have never ever avoided a reflective, thorough answer, if a womand would have asked me (it happened very rarely though). Is it me, am I the strange guy who's interested in the deeper truth or am I in the wrong country, or on the right planet but on the wrong time? Why does it happen so rarely that a woman is/was giving me a detailed answer?

Very curious on your answers. Thank you in advance.
01-11-2019 11:26 AM
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questor70 Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Women: degree of self-awareness (interest in a man)
"they probably don't have enough compassion yet to have developed a moral codex that would obligate them somehow to communicate their conclusions/feelings up to a certain degree"

Women of any age never feel any obligation to give men a detailed rejection report-card. It's blue-pill to even ask the question. You should come across as though you give no Fs and then try to privately deduce the reasons yourself.

The reverse, however, is not true. When you reject a woman, she'll be expecting you to explain it backwards and forwards.
(This post was last modified: 01-11-2019 01:39 PM by questor70.)
01-11-2019 01:38 PM
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tr1cky Offline
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RE: Women: degree of self-awareness (interest in a man)
Maybe your first problem is expecting women to understand why they do the things they do.
01-11-2019 01:45 PM
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No More Mr. Soy Boy Offline
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RE: Women: degree of self-awareness (interest in a man)
Because they're not men and it's not in their nature?

When people still lived in tribes it could be a death sentence for a woman to be too honest and tell a sensitive guy why she rejected him meanwhile a man probably got away with it. It's in their nature to seek conformity and avoid social conflict with men above anything else meanwhile men are more interested in truth and achieving actual results. Men and women developed differently, it's as simple as that.

Of course, a lot of them are just living their lives on auto-pilot and never reflect on the world or all the events that had to happen in the world in order for them to be able to walk with a smartphone in their hand and check Instagram. There has never really been some kind of evolutionary pressure on women to improve themselves because most women can get to reproduce anyway, meanwhile, it's usually only been the top tier of men who've been able to reproduce historically.

Women act so much on emotions, non-logic, it's not in their nature to be upfront, cut the bullshit and tell people harsh truths.
Just give up expecting to get an honest answer from a woman and I think you can save yourself years of psychological and emotional stress.

The only thing you will get out of that is wasted time and that you're coming off as weak and/or insecure.

Ultimately it comes down to you not being able to get that vagina to tingle hard enough and they'll think it's up to you to answer why you weren't able to do that.
(This post was last modified: 01-11-2019 01:50 PM by No More Mr. Soy Boy.)
01-11-2019 01:50 PM
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RatInTheWoods Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Women: degree of self-awareness (interest in a man)
Oh mate, you just don't understand women to ask that question.

They will never give you an honest, analytical answer to that.

Thats just not how they work.

For a hundred varying feminine reasons.
01-11-2019 02:06 PM
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The_e_man Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Women: degree of self-awareness (interest in a man)
Really guys? Nobody's gonna come out and say it?

These girls are super aware of why they aren't interested in you.
You probably aren't good-looking enough. And most girls will never want to say that to your face (most humans probably). A vague answer with no substance is the polite way of letting you know this.

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The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference
01-11-2019 02:11 PM
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EndsExpect Offline
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RE: Women: degree of self-awareness (interest in a man)
(01-11-2019 01:38 PM)questor70 Wrote:  "they probably don't have enough compassion yet to have developed a moral codex that would obligate them somehow to communicate their conclusions/feelings up to a certain degree"
Women of any age never feel any obligation to give men a detailed rejection report-card. It's blue-pill to even ask the question. You should come across as though you give no Fs and then try to privately deduce the reasons yourself.
The reverse, however, is not true. When you reject a woman, she'll be expecting you to explain it backwards and forwards.

Some guys get angry and aggressive during rejections. So most women are afraid to be solidly honest about this... plus they often don't want to hurt feelings. As a consequence the majority of women would prefer to reject men as softly and quickly as possible.

If you want to know why... really know why... then you have to come across as extremely non-threatening. Even then... she will likely give you some bullshit to keep from hurting your feelings.
01-11-2019 02:29 PM
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scorpion Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Women: degree of self-awareness (interest in a man)
If you're getting rejected that consistently and quickly there is something very off-putting about your appearance and/or the vibe you're putting out. The fact that the women won't even hint at an answer is further evidence of this: either they don't want to come across as mean by trashing your appearance, or they don't want to risk acquiring a mentally unstable stalker by telling you that you come across as a total weirdo.

"For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.” - Romans 8:18
01-11-2019 03:00 PM
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wemonger Offline
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RE: Women: degree of self-awareness (interest in a man)
(01-11-2019 11:26 AM)wonderman Wrote:  I got a lot of "sorry, I'm not interested" from women. I guess a few hundred times after dates. A few thousand times during daygame/nightgame. And a few ten thousand times directly or indirectly on the Internet.

A lot of times, especially after a date or even during daygame, I asked those women "it's ok that you're not interested, but I'm wondering, can you tell me the reason? I'm just wondering..".

You know, I'm single since ever, i.e. I do daygame/nightgame/online game for about 20 years now. So I asked this question a lot. The older I got, the more often I asked. Age range betw. 16-55.

The result: I never really got a detailed answer. I got some meta-answers, but mostly, the answers didn't contain a lot of "substance". In the end, 95% of all the women just said "I don't know" or "it's just my feeling".

My question to you, to the community:

What is the average capacity of self-awareness of women, in this regard, in certain age-ranges? Do you believe women are just not interested in providing the brain power it needs to find out why she is not interested or do you think they mostly do know it, but they don't want to communicate it, due to different reasons?

I personally think most younger girls simply live to a high degree on autopilot in this regard. They don't care enough on self-reflecting all the time on such issues, they do it on a subconscious level, but are not yet capable of communicating it. Plus, they probably don't have enough compassion yet to have developed a moral codex that would obligate them somehow to communicate their conclusions/feelings up to a certain degree. And the older they get, the higher the chance that they communicate their inner feelings/their thoughts.

But that's just my opininon. What's yours? What are your experiences you've made?

I'm not interested in a discussion about "why are you interested in the answer?". I'm simply interested in the answer. I have never ever avoided a reflective, thorough answer, if a womand would have asked me (it happened very rarely though). Is it me, am I the strange guy who's interested in the deeper truth or am I in the wrong country, or on the right planet but on the wrong time? Why does it happen so rarely that a woman is/was giving me a detailed answer?

Very curious on your answers. Thank you in advance.

100% you are incongruent to the two-prongs a woman has.

1. Short term partners
2. Long term partners

Being as you're "going on dates" and probably using info from PUA\TRP\here, you're basically a hip-omega.

She sees you have traits she likes in STR men, but you are too off the mark to be a "boyfriend" and she has better options to get pumped from.

Being as you're not being chosen as a "natural" (blue pill alpha male), this probably means you should prioritize your provider game.

I'm sorry as this is probably the most polite insult I've ever had to type out. I look like a bag of wet garbage and I haven't had the issues you've had, so sorry man.
01-11-2019 04:20 PM
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Post: #10
RE: Women: degree of self-awareness (interest in a man)
questor70:
Interesting. "privately deduce the reasons yourself" is what I was trying for the last 20 years but without success, the more I tried the bigger the question marks got. I am asking you honestly: did you successfully take this route, i.e. do you usually know why some women are not interested in you? If yes, I wish I had your brain for a day.
<>
Interesting again. I experienced quite the opposite. I can hardly remember a woman who asked me why I wasn't interested. It happened but maybe 1 in 50. I always think they just don't want to hear the (potentially hard) truth.

tr1cky:
The thing is, I always know why I am interested in someone or not. Sometimes it (would) take some brain power to "analyze", but in the end I would always get to those answers. And as I don't have any reasons to assume that my brain is wired very differently, I just expect women to have the same "potential for self-reflection"

No More Mr. Soy Boy:
Thanks for your elaborate answer. Was very(!) interesting to read. The ting is, if I completely gave up reflecting/analyzing about that, the whole "flirting" would become a bit less interesting, as I it felt that I had a bit less "control" over the whole process. But yeah, what should I say, there is probably more truth in those topics that you mentioned, evolution and social norms, than I want to admit. And true, I'm most probably coming off as weak/insecure, but then again, at that time (when I ask), it's too late anyway.

RatInTheWoods:
Hm. Maybe. So how do you deal with those unanswered questions? Do you just say "next" and leave those questions unanswered? Admire that, haven't fully achieved that yet Wink.

The_e_man:
Interesting. Now somebody who says they are super aware. It seems people have fundamentally different positions on this topic Smile. Can I ask you: Have you got to that conclusion because enough women already gave you some detailed explanations?

EndsExpect:
I agree. It would be interesting how the women's behavior would be different if every man would react in a very reasonable manner. Then again, I guess I come accross as quite non-threatening. But like you said ("even then.."), they still don't give me answers besides of either "there was no chemistry" or an indirect answer via ghosting. But the "extremely non-threating" is generally a good tip, too bad I'm having this attitude already, at least I guess.

scorpion:
I don't think I'm getting rejected much more often than other guys, i.e. I don't think my non-rejection/rejection ratio is much worse than average, just a bit. Maybe it has to do that I am a bit more aggressive than the average guy (I often heard "are you always that fast") and sometimes I heard women miss questions from me, so maybe they are wondering whether I am truly interested. And that's maybe one of the things that is truly off-putting about me. Maybe I am quite self-centered and my philosophical way to have a date is too self-centered as women (especially younger ones) prefer questions about them instead of figuring out together how the universe works. As strange as this seems to me but maybe it's something off-putting about me, yes.

wemonger:
Interesting term, Omega Male, like that Smile. "I'm sorry as this is probably the most polite insult I've ever had to type out" hahaha.. :-D. Don't worry, my English is not that good, I guess I understood only half of it :-D. Even had to google "provider game". But I guess no thanks, I never had sex multiple times with a women, it's just not my thing. I prefer masturbating than meeting a woman more than 2 or 3 times. It's just not my thing. I want to hunt, I need to hunt, it's all I have, ok, "almost" all I have :-P. Interesting that you look like a bag of wet garbage, because women usually tell me I look quite good haha, ups, that's an even bigger insult now :-P.

---------

Thanks for all the interesting answers so far! I really appreciate your feedback. It's cool to have such a platform, to have access to people who care about such questions. Guess that's the positive side of the Internet..
01-11-2019 04:37 PM
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Post: #11
RE: Women: degree of self-awareness (interest in a man)
(01-11-2019 04:37 PM)wonderman Wrote:  The_e_man:
Interesting. Now somebody who says they are super aware. It seems people have fundamentally different positions on this topic Smile. Can I ask you: Have you got to that conclusion because enough women already gave you some detailed explanations?

They are incredibly aware and in-tune in ways that we as men can never be. But they are also painfully / blissful unaware of other things that we can see clear as day.

In this case, these girls are simply not attracted to you. And I don't mean to say you are ugly. I mean to say you are likely average looking, which to a woman is quite ugly.
It's been said a lot now and many informal studies can be linked showing women perceiving something like 80% of men to be "below-average" in looks. Clearly, this shows that women don't truly understand the statistical concept of averages. But more importantly, it should give you a glimpse into their hypergamous nature.

That is how I got to this conclusion. Experience. Not asking women who rejected me why they did so. While it's a smart idea on paper, it's an incredibly pointless and futile endeavour in practice. You will have to obtain that information in other ways.

Grant me serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference
01-11-2019 05:50 PM
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Delta Offline
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RE: Women: degree of self-awareness (interest in a man)
Throughout the history of the human species, women who had a knack for pissing off men were less likely to survive and pass on their genes.

Telling you you're too short/fat/skinny/ugly/smelly/awkward/weird/boring, or whatever the issue may be, risks pissing you off from their point of view, even if you know in your mind you want that constructive feedback. Thus, it is deeply ingrained in women's DNA not to do it.

I've tried a few times to ask a girl why she isn't interested. It's not the worst idea in the world, cause you have nothing to lose at that point other than a bit of dignity, but I've never once gotten a response that had any substance or authenticity to it. I doubt any man has had a different experience with this.
(This post was last modified: 01-11-2019 09:09 PM by Delta.)
01-11-2019 09:05 PM
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jacknap Offline
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RE: Women: degree of self-awareness (interest in a man)
I go to swing clubs with my fuck buddies and the common reason why the girls I go with don't want to fuck a guy is because of the way the guy looks but girls have nothing to gain from giving you honest feed back but also don't want to hurt your feelings, upset you, and feel uncomfortable.

It could just be that I go for shallow girls since looks is a strength of mine as well and it's a sex club mind you.

At sex clubs I see it first hand. One of fwb a guy said 'oh could I play with you tonight.' She says oh maybe next time but after the fact I asked her and she said 'oh he was too short'. 'Oh he wasn't that cute'. etc.

So I don't know it might be a lot to do with looks. My mom for instance likes dark haired tall guys. You could give her Nick Carter in his prime but she always preferred Kevin and wouldn't take Nick. (Dated reference but you get what I mean).

It's a different world for women. Imagine you could pretty much you could fuck whoever you want. Imagine how particular you would get.

Just food for thought and writing this out taught me something too.
01-11-2019 09:39 PM
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jacknap Offline
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RE: Women: degree of self-awareness (interest in a man)
(01-11-2019 09:05 PM)Delta Wrote:  Throughout the history of the human species, women who had a knack for pissing off men were less likely to survive and pass on their genes.

Telling you you're too short/fat/skinny/ugly/smelly/awkward/weird/boring, or whatever the issue may be, risks pissing you off from their point of view, even if you know in your mind you want that constructive feedback. Thus, it is deeply ingrained in women's DNA not to do it.

I've tried a few times to ask a girl why she isn't interested. It's not the worst idea in the world, cause you have nothing to lose at that point other than a bit of dignity, but I've never once gotten a response that had any substance or authenticity to it. I doubt any man has had a different experience with this.

This x1000. The secret might actually be is to get a girl to ask the girl maybe to ask for you? I wish I knew this. Getting rejected thousands of times. Surely that data could create something really attractive out of myself instead of guessing in the dark.

If mind reading capability was ever created I think there would be a lot more sex between men and women.

Another idea is get a girl you're casual with to use tinder in front of you. Screen for girls who are more on the honest scale... Tinder probably has incredible data.
(This post was last modified: 01-11-2019 09:50 PM by jacknap.)
01-11-2019 09:40 PM
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questor70 Offline
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RE: Women: degree of self-awareness (interest in a man)
(01-11-2019 04:37 PM)wonderman Wrote:  ...do you usually know why some women are not interested in you?

In the past, no, but these days I absolutely do!

(qualification here is I'm talking about dating apps, not cold approach)

I know most here will vehemently disagree, but I'd say the majority of success/fail with women is out of a man's control. Instead it's a function of how men and women react during the initial eye-contact on that first meetup.

Beyond that, it should become quite clear early on how much compatibility there is. And since so little info is shared on the swipers, that stage of vetting has to happen face to face which is awkward when you're ready to tap out early.

In the past I was primarily interested in sex and if she passed the boner test I would just use every tactic I could to get there as a means to an end. However, I've realized that I just don't like the collateral damage of going in guns blazing and then trying to extricate myself so I'm just as liable to tap out as she is, but in most cases it's mutual, because I lose interest in a woman if she's not engaged.

The type of women I pursue are those who are sort of open or guards-down. DTF. I can tell they are looking for reasons to say yes rather than no.

The paradox of choice makes women more likely to window shop rather than buy, but for various reasons (rebound, dry spell, whatever) sometimes they will be in a buying mindset. It's not so much that you're some amazing prince charming, but they are looking to buy and as long as you are polite, well-dressed, hygeine is on-point, and you don't seem like an axe murderer, you can escalate. They may not admit it, but most of the time when something happens it's because they're looking for a Mr. Right Now and you're just the guy in the room so it's less effort on their part to proceed than keep fishing.

How does this play out?

One way I know this is happening is when I notice differences in interests or viewpoints and she sort of bobs and weaves around them. She's papering over differences in order to keep me in the running. She's already invested to the point of the meetup so she's giving things more slack than if I were a complete stranger. A woman who is in Inquisition mode would be starting to tap out instead (breaking eye contact, not asking followup questions, etc...)

(01-11-2019 04:37 PM)wonderman Wrote:  I can hardly remember a woman who asked me why I wasn't interested.

Part of that is due to the move towards ghosting.

I'm talking about beyond the sex threshold.

Women have a hard time understanding why guys will be attracted enough to fuck but not feel they're worthy of commitment. Guys have a hard time understanding why women will establish a strong initial emotional connection and not fuck them.
Since nobody waits long enough to have sex, women have to accept the pump-n-dump risks and nice guys need to walk away after 3 dates. No lengthy sit down discussions over the battle of the sexes will change that.

(01-11-2019 04:37 PM)wonderman Wrote:  I just expect women to have the same "potential for self-reflection"

Read back to what I said about the initial eye-contact reaction. That's instinct. It's the sort of thing that happens with two deer. It's not higher-order thinking and women don't like admitting they are such superficial creatures. Romance is the force whereas reproductive evolutionary biology is just midichlorians. Which gives you warm fuzzies and which depresses you?

[Image: giphy.gif]
[Image: giphy.gif]

(01-11-2019 04:37 PM)wonderman Wrote:  ...how do you deal with those unanswered questions? Do you just say "next" and leave those questions unanswered?

As I explained above. Learn how to parse body language better and also take mental notes on the ebb and flow of the conversation. When did her attention start to fade? Any awkward silences? Any third-rails where you stumbled over some core difference in taste and ideology? It's really not that hard.

(01-11-2019 04:37 PM)wonderman Wrote:  I don't think I'm getting rejected much more often than other guys

Obviously something's not working well enough that you're asking questions, right?

IMHO, the best way to improve odds is to resist the temptation to pursue each and every lead. This is what they talk about with yes/no/maybe girls. As frustrating as it is, there are a lot of women who are for all intents and purposes "no" girls who will still match and agree to a meetup. They may not realize they are a "no" girl, but they are, and hence a waste of time. Try to figure out how to identify them before agreeing to meet up.
(This post was last modified: 01-11-2019 11:26 PM by questor70.)
01-11-2019 11:18 PM
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Delta Offline
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RE: Women: degree of self-awareness (interest in a man)
(01-11-2019 09:40 PM)jacknap Wrote:  
(01-11-2019 09:05 PM)Delta Wrote:  Throughout the history of the human species, women who had a knack for pissing off men were less likely to survive and pass on their genes.

Telling you you're too short/fat/skinny/ugly/smelly/awkward/weird/boring, or whatever the issue may be, risks pissing you off from their point of view, even if you know in your mind you want that constructive feedback. Thus, it is deeply ingrained in women's DNA not to do it.

I've tried a few times to ask a girl why she isn't interested. It's not the worst idea in the world, cause you have nothing to lose at that point other than a bit of dignity, but I've never once gotten a response that had any substance or authenticity to it. I doubt any man has had a different experience with this.

This x1000. The secret might actually be is to get a girl to ask the girl maybe to ask for you? I wish I knew this. Getting rejected thousands of times. Surely that data could create something really attractive out of myself instead of guessing in the dark.

If mind reading capability was ever created I think there would be a lot more sex between men and women.

Another idea is get a girl you're casual with to use tinder in front of you. Screen for girls who are more on the honest scale... Tinder probably has incredible data.

The analogy I use is this: Pursuing women this day in age is like shooting hoops blindfolded. You don't know exactly where the basket is, only the general direction (just like you don't know exactly what any particular woman wants, just the general principles of value and game), and when you miss, you have no idea how you missed: Long or short? Left or right? Too passive or too thirsty? Too talkative or too quiet? Too boring or too odd? Too eager or too apathetic? Too nice or too much of a dick? Too simple or too intellectual? Not lean enough or not big enough? Too plain or too edgy? Too sloppy or too preppy? Too un-stylish or too metrosexual? Was something stuck in your teeth? Or maybe something beyond your control like height or facial aesthetic? Clearly this list could go on for days.

Someone who only shoots baskets blindfolded would be unable to improve as time went on, because he'd receive no feedback that shows him why he's missing shots...All he'd know is that he seldom hears the sound of the ball going through the net. How can he possibly correct himself?

This is how I'm starting to feel about game. I've got all the obvious stuff taken care of: fitness, money, hairstyle, clothing, conversational ability, awareness of game principles, etc. So now when I get rejected, which happens plenty, I have no idea where to go from there, and I feel like I'm on a plateau. It's difficult in a unique way that nothing else in my life has resembled, as I'm typically good at correcting my mistakes when I know what they are.

If women were fundamentally honest and forthcoming creatures, game would be like shooting baskets normally. You'd know exactly what you're aiming at, and if you're a little off, you see clear feedback on the correction that needs to be made... thus, practice makes perfect. But as it stands, game is always going to be a uniquely challenging endeavor of heaving up shots in the dark and hoping one hits every now and then.

As for the OP, there's no tangible harm in what you're doing, so ask away if you want, just don't expect much from it. And if you're not taking care of all of the basic stuff I listed above, the stuff that shouldn't require any female feedback, get to it! There's no excuse for being deficient in any of those categories.
01-11-2019 11:53 PM
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SaintLaurentJake Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Women: degree of self-awareness (interest in a man)
(01-11-2019 11:53 PM)Delta Wrote:  
(01-11-2019 09:40 PM)jacknap Wrote:  
(01-11-2019 09:05 PM)Delta Wrote:  Throughout the history of the human species, women who had a knack for pissing off men were less likely to survive and pass on their genes.

Telling you you're too short/fat/skinny/ugly/smelly/awkward/weird/boring, or whatever the issue may be, risks pissing you off from their point of view, even if you know in your mind you want that constructive feedback. Thus, it is deeply ingrained in women's DNA not to do it.

I've tried a few times to ask a girl why she isn't interested. It's not the worst idea in the world, cause you have nothing to lose at that point other than a bit of dignity, but I've never once gotten a response that had any substance or authenticity to it. I doubt any man has had a different experience with this.

This x1000. The secret might actually be is to get a girl to ask the girl maybe to ask for you? I wish I knew this. Getting rejected thousands of times. Surely that data could create something really attractive out of myself instead of guessing in the dark.

If mind reading capability was ever created I think there would be a lot more sex between men and women.

Another idea is get a girl you're casual with to use tinder in front of you. Screen for girls who are more on the honest scale... Tinder probably has incredible data.

The analogy I use is this: Pursuing women this day in age is like shooting hoops blindfolded. You don't know exactly where the basket is, only the general direction (just like you don't know exactly what any particular woman wants, just the general principles of value and game), and when you miss, you have no idea how you missed: Long or short? Left or right? Too passive or too thirsty? Too talkative or too quiet? Too boring or too odd? Too eager or too apathetic? Too nice or too much of a dick? Too simple or too intellectual? Not lean enough or not big enough? Too plain or too edgy? Too sloppy or too preppy? Too un-stylish or too metrosexual? Was something stuck in your teeth? Or maybe something beyond your control like height or facial aesthetic? Clearly this list could go on for days.

Someone who only shoots baskets blindfolded would be unable to improve as time went on, because he'd receive no feedback that shows him why he's missing shots...All he'd know is that he seldom hears the sound of the ball going through the net. How can he possibly correct himself?

This is how I'm starting to feel about game. I've got all the obvious stuff taken care of: fitness, money, hairstyle, clothing, conversational ability, awareness of game principles, etc. So now when I get rejected, which happens plenty, I have no idea where to go from there, and I feel like I'm on a plateau. It's difficult in a unique way that nothing else in my life has resembled, as I'm typically good at correcting my mistakes when I know what they are.

If women were fundamentally honest and forthcoming creatures, game would be like shooting baskets normally. You'd know exactly what you're aiming at, and if you're a little off, you see clear feedback on the correction that needs to be made... thus, practice makes perfect. But as it stands, game is always going to be a uniquely challenging endeavor of heaving up shots in the dark and hoping one hits every now and then.

As for the OP, there's no tangible harm in what you're doing, so ask away if you want, just don't expect much from it. And if you're not taking care of all of the basic stuff I listed above, the stuff that shouldn't require any female feedback, get to it! There's no excuse for being deficient in any of those categories.

Try going to countries that aren't the US and I'll guarantee you'll have a better time. Perhaps its just US women that are unsure of what they want ?
01-12-2019 12:13 AM
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wonderman Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Women: degree of self-awareness (interest in a man)
Again interesting feedback from you guys, thanks!

The_e_man:
Interesting to hear you mentioning the dualism. That info about the study was interesting too.

Delta:
Somehow sad to hear that seemingly every man has to deal with getting no relevant feedback in the end. I wonder whether I am behaving similarly "antisocial" towards women in other areas.

jacknap:
"Imagine you could fuck whoever you want. Imagine how particular you would get." Yes right, I thought about that already. It seems to have a much bigger impact on you than one may guess.
It would be indeed very interesting to ask a girl to do the research stuff. I thought about that already, but it's too much effort, can't imagine women will deliver much more insights that way, but who knows.

questor70:
Wow what a lengthy and interesting message, thanks. I believe in that "the decision is most often made in the first seconds" theory too. Last year I created an excel file for all my dates, for each date I wrote down what my intuition said in the first few seconds. And indeed, after a year, and dozens of dates, I concluded that my intuition is mostly right. However, I have to fine tune the excel file, so this year I start a 2 year process where I write down what my intuition says at different stages of the flirt.
The "looking to buy" argument is interesting. If only I had the chance to find out that "buying temperature" as soon as possible.
Thanks for your comprehensive message, really appreciate that!

Delta:
Interesting. I also feel like I'm on a plateau. Actually I always felt like that :-D. I am not sure whether I really take care of all the "obvious stuff" but I go to the gym, I don't look like a homeless person, I am quite eloquent etc. But as you said, I somehow can't truly "learn" because of the missing feedback.

SaintLaurentJake:
I am from Europe (Switzerland). I was in the US more than 10 years ago for vacation, and although too short to really come to any conclusion, it felt like people would be a bit more laid-back over there. Same here in Europe, I am more successful with women in all other countries in Europe. But yeah, it's not really comparable because when I'm in vacation, I have time and I invest time in flirting.
01-13-2019 06:02 AM
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Post: #19
RE: Women: degree of self-awareness (interest in a man)
(01-11-2019 11:26 AM)wonderman Wrote:  I got a lot of "sorry, I'm not interested" from women. I guess a few hundred times after dates. A few thousand times during daygame/nightgame. And a few ten thousand times directly or indirectly on the Internet.

A lot of times, especially after a date or even during daygame, I asked those women "it's ok that you're not interested, but I'm wondering, can you tell me the reason? I'm just wondering..".

You know, I'm single since ever, i.e. I do daygame/nightgame/online game for about 20 years now. So I asked this question a lot. The older I got, the more often I asked. Age range betw. 16-55.

The result: I never really got a detailed answer. I got some meta-answers, but mostly, the answers didn't contain a lot of "substance". In the end, 95% of all the women just said "I don't know" or "it's just my feeling".

My question to you, to the community:

What is the average capacity of self-awareness of women, in this regard, in certain age-ranges? Do you believe women are just not interested in providing the brain power it needs to find out why she is not interested or do you think they mostly do know it, but they don't want to communicate it, due to different reasons?

I personally think most younger girls simply live to a high degree on autopilot in this regard. They don't care enough on self-reflecting all the time on such issues, they do it on a subconscious level, but are not yet capable of communicating it. Plus, they probably don't have enough compassion yet to have developed a moral codex that would obligate them somehow to communicate their conclusions/feelings up to a certain degree. And the older they get, the higher the chance that they communicate their inner feelings/their thoughts.

But that's just my opininon. What's yours? What are your experiences you've made?

I'm not interested in a discussion about "why are you interested in the answer?". I'm simply interested in the answer. I have never ever avoided a reflective, thorough answer, if a womand would have asked me (it happened very rarely though). Is it me, am I the strange guy who's interested in the deeper truth or am I in the wrong country, or on the right planet but on the wrong time? Why does it happen so rarely that a woman is/was giving me a detailed answer?

Very curious on your answers. Thank you in advance.

I believe that you are way too clever to be "in phase" with women. They don't like you because they find you either repulsive or they feel that you have a tortured (?) mind. To be intellectual/intelligent is a massive turn-off for most of modern women.
01-13-2019 09:15 AM
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wonderman Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Women: degree of self-awareness (interest in a man)
(01-13-2019 09:15 AM)Polniy_Sostav Wrote:  I believe that you are way too clever to be "in phase" with women. They don't like you because they find you either repulsive or they feel that you have a tortured (?) mind. To be intellectual/intelligent is a massive turn-off for most of modern women.

*monkey hand over eyes smiley* Smile

Interesting answer. I'm pretty sure I'm pretty average in regard to IQ but due to the repeating process of 1st dates, I talk a lot about the same topics again and again. Hence it becomes almost too easy for me to accelerate the discussion into a certain direction, and maybe that has a strange effect on my vis-à-vis. Combined with my general motivation of trying to find deeper psychological connections, I maybe have an off-putting effect, especially on younger women.

Maybe that's my main problem. Women just "feel" that I am not too interested in them. Maybe I should watch "Batchelor" TV shows or try to remember some extraordinary questions that make me seem very interested in the other person.

Too bad I want to stay anonymous. Otherwise I could just upload a video of myself and you could give some feedback. Wink
(This post was last modified: 01-13-2019 09:36 AM by wonderman.)
01-13-2019 09:35 AM
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Post: #21
RE: Women: degree of self-awareness (interest in a man)
(01-11-2019 11:26 AM)wonderman Wrote:  I got a lot of "sorry, I'm not interested" from women. I guess a few hundred times after dates. A few thousand times during daygame/nightgame. And a few ten thousand times directly or indirectly on the Internet.

A lot of times, especially after a date or even during daygame, I asked those women "it's ok that you're not interested, but I'm wondering, can you tell me the reason? I'm just wondering..".

You know, I'm single since ever, i.e. I do daygame/nightgame/online game for about 20 years now. So I asked this question a lot. The older I got, the more often I asked. Age range betw. 16-55.

The result: I never really got a detailed answer. I got some meta-answers, but mostly, the answers didn't contain a lot of "substance". In the end, 95% of all the women just said "I don't know" or "it's just my feeling".

My question to you, to the community:

What is the average capacity of self-awareness of women, in this regard, in certain age-ranges? Do you believe women are just not interested in providing the brain power it needs to find out why she is not interested or do you think they mostly do know it, but they don't want to communicate it, due to different reasons?

I personally think most younger girls simply live to a high degree on autopilot in this regard. They don't care enough on self-reflecting all the time on such issues, they do it on a subconscious level, but are not yet capable of communicating it. Plus, they probably don't have enough compassion yet to have developed a moral codex that would obligate them somehow to communicate their conclusions/feelings up to a certain degree. And the older they get, the higher the chance that they communicate their inner feelings/their thoughts.

But that's just my opininon. What's yours? What are your experiences you've made?

I'm not interested in a discussion about "why are you interested in the answer?". I'm simply interested in the answer. I have never ever avoided a reflective, thorough answer, if a womand would have asked me (it happened very rarely though). Is it me, am I the strange guy who's interested in the deeper truth or am I in the wrong country, or on the right planet but on the wrong time? Why does it happen so rarely that a woman is/was giving me a detailed answer?

Very curious on your answers. Thank you in advance.

Could I ask how old you are? And what's your physique like? Are you fat/short/skinny or decently built and in good shape? As rough as it may sound, it might simply be your looks that are cockblocking you, given how hypergamous Swiss women are known to be.
01-13-2019 03:51 PM
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wonderman Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Women: degree of self-awareness (interest in a man)
(01-13-2019 03:51 PM)Feldeinsamkeit Wrote:  Could I ask how old you are? And what's your physique like? Are you fat/short/skinny or decently built and in good shape? As rough as it may sound, it might simply be your looks that are cockblocking you, given how hypergamous Swiss women are known to be.

I don't think it's related to my looks. I'm 37. Betw. 5'10-5'11. Average looks, average physique (3x gym per week), average style. Get the standard "you look very good" compliments from time to time. Get superlikes on tinder from to time. Totally average.

Again. It's not that I have a harder time than other guys. When I ask my dates whether there was already a guy in their life who did not want a 2nd date with them, most of them say, slightly bewildered, that this never happened. So most guys have a hard time getting to a 2nd date (provided they continuously need new stimulus).

I was just asking for potential reasons why women do not communicate the reason of their disinterest. And I got a lot of interesting answers. Different opinions but I guess we covered most aspects. I guess the future will deliver the answers I am looking for. Will be interesting to too see how A.I. can help in this regard.

Finally, I guess it's a mix of multiple factors. Unfortunately (or fortunately), in some way, experience exciting stuff when flirting gets more difficult the longer you do it, as you always need new input. So to really advance, money and time would help a lot, but yeah, precious resources as we all know Wink.

Guess I can't add anything relevant anymore to this topic.
01-13-2019 04:52 PM
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Belgrano Online
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Post: #23
RE: Women: degree of self-awareness (interest in a man)
(01-13-2019 06:02 AM)wonderman Wrote:  I am from Europe (Switzerland). I was in the US more than 10 years ago for vacation, and although too short to really come to any conclusion, it felt like people would be a bit more laid-back over there. Same here in Europe, I am more successful with women in all other countries in Europe. But yeah, it's not really comparable because when I'm in vacation, I have time and I invest time in flirting.

(01-13-2019 04:52 PM)wonderman Wrote:  I don't think it's related to my looks. I'm 37. Betw. 5'10-5'11. Average looks, average physique (3x gym per week), average style. Get the standard "you look very good" compliments from time to time. Get superlikes on tinder from to time. Totally average.


Switzerland is pussy hell.

Odds are stacked against you, big time.

So think of ways to spend more time abroad.
(This post was last modified: 01-13-2019 06:03 PM by Belgrano.)
01-13-2019 05:59 PM
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RE: Women: degree of self-awareness (interest in a man)
(01-13-2019 09:35 AM)wonderman Wrote:  Interesting answer. I'm pretty sure I'm pretty average in regard to IQ

I don't think you're so average. You come across as extremely left-brained, analytical. Anyone approaching game is going to analyze, but the fact is, in the middle of executing it has to be art, not science. If you execute it like a chess match then women can detect that a mile away.

I can kind of relate to your situation because I also am apt to skip through smalltalk and go deep, and it can easily backfire. The problem is that most women approach dating as escapism. Regardless of what they say, they're not really looking for a connection because they're running away from their demons and everyday troubles. They are presenting a facade only and they expect the same in return so you can both blow a fantasy bubble for the sake of 'gina tingles.
01-13-2019 06:10 PM
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RE: Women: degree of self-awareness (interest in a man)
(01-11-2019 04:37 PM)wonderman Wrote:  RatInTheWoods:
Hm. Maybe. So how do you deal with those unanswered questions? Do you just say "next" and leave those questions unanswered? Admire that, haven't fully achieved that yet Wink.


Yes mate, that's exactly what you should do, because once a women rejects you, then why waste a second of your time and effort on her, when there are millions of more women who will not reject you?

Use your energy to find and game them.

It would be great to get feedback on why she rejected you, but it isn't possible to get an honest answer to that most of the time.

It could be as banal as "he doesn't have tats" or some shit, because of the choices and thirst, women have so many options its like walking past a mile long buffet, turning up all manner of food without really thinking why.

Not worth you spending a joule of energy on.
(This post was last modified: 01-13-2019 07:13 PM by RatInTheWoods.)
01-13-2019 07:06 PM
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