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Marriage
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bantersmyth Offline
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Post: #1
Marriage
There is overwhelming negative sentiment to marriage on the forum. The downsides are obvious but what's the upside? Genuinely asking.

Are there any happily married men (on this forum)?

I don't just want what I want. I want it, in the way that I want it.
01-12-2019 06:44 AM
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DarkTriad Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Marriage
(01-12-2019 06:44 AM)bantersmyth Wrote:  There is overwhelming negative sentiment to marriage on the forum. The downsides are obvious but what's the upside? Genuinely asking.

Are there any happily married men (on this forum)?

It's a beautiful (if expensive) ceremony and and tradition. However, in today society and legal climate it will not give you anything you don't already have. Or work to develop and maintain. And yes, even highly religious bible belt women have high rates of divorce, it just doesn't offer a man any protection whatsosever, just a frightening vulnerability.

It can easily be argued that current marriage laws are so messed up the actively work to de-stabilize a family with a series of perverse incentives.
01-12-2019 07:04 AM
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mataor Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Marriage
Hi,

I am married, could say I am happily married. My parents are married, my in-laws are married, all our grandparents were married (no single divorce in our family line). My wife has a mixture of traditional values with some independent woman bullshit, and the only thing I would object to our relationship is that she wants to keep her business / work in order for her to be "independent"; she gets kind of furious every time I remember her that she having a business / work has been more expensive for us than if she simply would have stayed at home (math does not lie). She can cook quite well, she clean for me, if I ask her for a sandwich she always complies (not always with a smile though). She treats her mother with great love (which is a green light, but is a downside in itself), is decent and I am proud of her. She was what I would consider a 9+ HB when younger (hey.. I am in love), and as far as know I was her first lover.

Holding frame in a marriage is ridiculously difficult. The shit test are out of the world. Even if you past a shit test, them are going to be accumulated and at once you can get like a shit storm at the least expected moment. Your wife is no ONS or girlfriend, she is going to know you better than yourself in some points and this information would be use to sabotage your frame when her hamster gets out of control. It is good to be red pilled before you get married.
(This post was last modified: 01-12-2019 09:44 AM by mataor.)
01-12-2019 09:34 AM
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quaker13 Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Marriage
Marriage is marriage. All the high value men I know of including myself struggle with it. I don’t know anyone outside of my dad who navigated through it seamlessly. He basically was an emotional heavybag for my mom 90% of the time and the other 10% he was angry maniac that stood up to a bully. Marriage is ideal for betas that our happy to be in what would appear a loving relationship
01-12-2019 10:09 AM
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Hypugamy Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Marriage
I was skeptical of marriage from a young age, because at around 21 I found the book "Taken into Custody" which explains the divorces machine. I still tried to think marriage was a good idea (because family is the foundation of a free society IMO). I then found the red pill at 34.

(01-12-2019 10:09 AM)quaker13 Wrote:  Marriage is marriage. All the high value men I know of including myself struggle with it.

(01-12-2019 09:34 AM)mataor Wrote:  Holding frame in a marriage is ridiculously difficult. The shit test are out of the world.

This is how I see marriage after finding the RP. I have never been someone who thrives in an LTR for whatever reason, I just find it difficult. To be honest, it's hard to maintain frame even in a 3 month relationship. To keep a plate you are having sex with from forcing her way into the main chick category (IE: she says "I only have sex with one person at a time, it doesn't have to be serious") is very difficult.


(01-12-2019 10:09 AM)quaker13 Wrote:  Marriage is ideal for betas that our happy to be in what would appear a loving relationship

I think this is how a majority of men live in their marriages.

I would still consider marriage if I met the right women, but I think a lot of us who have been single for most of our adult lives have structured our existence in a way that is very hard to reconcile with marriage. Marriage in my opinion is best undertaken while you are young with a young chick, and you can change and grow together. When you are 35+ you have probably seen and heard enough negative things about marriage that you will lose almost all interest, not to mention your sex drive diminishes the need for constant sex that you had in your 20's.
01-12-2019 11:37 AM
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sterlingarcher Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Marriage
There must be a huge anti-marrige bias on this forum.

Almost by definition, it doesn't follow that a happily married man would hang out here too much

(Of course, there are exceptions).
01-12-2019 12:49 PM
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Duke Main Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Marriage
(01-12-2019 09:34 AM)mataor Wrote:  Hi,

I am married, could say I am happily married. My parents are married, my in-laws are married, all our grandparents were married (no single divorce in our family line). My wife has a mixture of traditional values with some independent woman bullshit, and the only thing I would object to our relationship is that she wants to keep her business / work in order for her to be "independent"; she gets kind of furious every time I remember her that she having a business / work has been more expensive for us than if she simply would have stayed at home (math does not lie). She can cook quite well, she clean for me, if I ask her for a sandwich she always complies (not always with a smile though). She treats her mother with great love (which is a green light, but is a downside in itself), is decent and I am proud of her. She was what I would consider a 9+ HB when younger (hey.. I am in love), and as far as know I was her first lover.

Holding frame in a marriage is ridiculously difficult. The shit test are out of the world. Even if you past a shit test, them are going to be accumulated and at once you can get like a shit storm at the least expected moment. Your wife is no ONS or girlfriend, she is going to know you better than yourself in some points and this information would be use to sabotage your frame when her hamster gets out of control. It is good to be red pilled before you get married.

Good post. Where do you live? Where are you from?
01-12-2019 01:22 PM
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Duke Main Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Marriage
(01-12-2019 10:09 AM)quaker13 Wrote:  Marriage is marriage. All the high value men I know of including myself struggle with it. I don’t know anyone outside of my dad who navigated through it seamlessly. He basically was an emotional heavybag for my mom 90% of the time and the other 10% he was angry maniac that stood up to a bully. Marriage is ideal for betas that our happy to be in what would appear a loving relationship

Athol Kay's Married Man Sex Life is a very good resource for marriage in my opinion. He talks about the need to combine alpha and beta to maintain the relationship, which is often overlooked by those who consider themselves redpilled.
01-12-2019 01:26 PM
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Waqqle Away
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Post: #9
RE: Marriage
The answer to this question depends almost entirely upon which government has legal authority over you and your marriage (for example, the US government maintains authority over any marriage on its books, even if you got married abroad and haven't lived in the US for decades), which cultural community you live in, and/or which religious community, if any, you belong to. Some countries, governments, and cultures are better for marriage than others and are also subject to your own personal preference as far as where you want to actually live and whom you wish to be surrounded by.

Another factor is your current financial situation and where you think you will be economically/financially in the future. If you have never been successful and/or wealthy and don't see yourself being so at any point in the future (and especially if you see yourself as being so far beneath your wife that you could potentially be awarded palimony in the nigh inevitable divorce), then you might not have much to lose unless your wife falsely accuses you of something at some point, something which is entirely possible and, in such an event, you would be facing criminal charges.

Third, it is a known and documented fact that a heterosexual married household with traditional gender roles is generally (obviously barring some weirdness like alcoholism) the healthiest environment for children to grow up in and produces offspring which are more likely than any other to be successful in life in all of the ways in which success is typically measured (emotional stability, decent socio-economic future trajectory, generally low rates of childhood abuse at home, etc.)

As to why people on this forum in particular generally have a negative view of marriage, consider that most of us are probably Western men from Anglosphere countries (US, Canada, UK, Australia, and New Zealand). Anyone with even a vague knowledge of the dominant culture in the Anglosphere and the general treatment of men in society, the family, the court system, and so on will understand our view. Frankly, most of us would probably have liked to have marriage as an option but, as it stands currently, it is culturally and legally an extremely dangerous and possibly even lethal (poverty, suicide, and incarceration) thing to attempt so long as we remain in our respective homelands.

This is not even considering the near impossibility of managing a household in a traditional fashion with an Anglo woman (regardless of ethnicity) or even with a foreign woman who has spent significant time in the Anglosphere. Your home life as a married man in the Anglosphere will almost invariably become a more profound and singular misery than even your worst year as a single man was. The potential, and entirely theoretical, benefits are vastly outweighed by the real and near-certain perils. It is not necessarily that we have a negative view of marriage as a concept (in fact, I estimate that most of us find it to be a positive thing in principle if for no reason other than creating a healthy environment for children) so much as it is that we have a rational view of the legal state of marriage in our home countries and of the cultures which dominate those countries and make said legal situation possible.

This is barely scratching the surface of why men, especially those of us who are younger and raised by feminists, do not see sufficient benefit in it for us to warrant an attempt at marriage but what of the children? What sane man would, if he had any other option, voluntarily elect to inflict this dystopian fever dream onto innocent and impressionable children? What sane man would wish to get married, likely primarily for the purpose of creating a family, when he knows that he will never have any sort of meaningful legal or cultural authority or power to ensure that they are raised properly and are psychologically traumatized, and chemically discombobulated as little as possible during that process?

Here is an American family law attorney's calm and measured take on the situation in an interview with a Canadian divorced dad:




Here is another take on the situation (3 and half minute animation) from an American female forensic psychologist who does well in touching on some of the big issues:





*As a side note, it is often said that married men are, on average, statistically more likely to be happy and content with life than single men. This is false and is based on a statistical trick by which those performing a particular study do not count divorced men as part of the "married" group or even as being in their own group entirely but instead as part of the "single" group. Anyone who has met a recently divorce man will know how depressed they tend to be (understandably) and why they would drive the average happiness score of the "single" group down. Academia and peer review are just as infected and overrun by Feminism and Postmodernism as everything else.

*As another side note, marriage may still be fine if you live in a non-Anglo country whose law and a dominant culture are friendly toward married men and you are not still under the authority of an Anglo government (for example, the US government hold Americans to its laws regardless of where we actually reside, including subjecting us to income tax on income we earned entirely outside of the US while also living permanently outside of the US), then heterosexual marriage has always been and remains objectively the best common way to build a family and raise children. It's not that marriage sucks. It's that marriage in certain countries and cultures sucks.
(This post was last modified: 01-12-2019 02:51 PM by Waqqle.)
01-12-2019 01:51 PM
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Black Caesar Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Marriage
What if she makes way more money than you or has a passport you want?
01-12-2019 01:51 PM
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Hypugamy Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Marriage
(01-12-2019 01:51 PM)Black Caesar Wrote:  What if she makes way more money than you or has a passport you want?

1st scenario rarely happens, or at least doesn't lead to a happy relationship.

2nd scenario, this would basically be a green card scam would it not?
01-12-2019 02:33 PM
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mataor Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Marriage
(01-12-2019 01:22 PM)Duke Main Wrote:  ...
Good post. Where do you live? Where are you from?

Hi thanks,

From a Latin-American country, living in western Europe.
01-12-2019 02:58 PM
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Duke Main
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Post: #13
RE: Marriage
(01-12-2019 02:33 PM)Hypugamy Wrote:  1st scenario rarely happens, or at least doesn't lead to a happy relationship.

2nd scenario, this would basically be a green card scam would it not?

Just for fun, I'm going to chime in here and, for the record, I am not a lawyer.

1st scenario: You could clandestinely quit your job a month prior to the signing of your legal marriage documents, so that there is no record of you having made a monthly income during the marriage and thus no grounds for determining a monthly amount for alimony, and refuse to work again after getting married so as to firmly solidify yourself legally as the dependent party and, in doing so, maximize your odds of getting palimony in the divorce when either you file for it after a year or two or your wife files for it because women do not really like stay-at-home house husbands and she will most likely at least cheat on you. The fact that most guys don't do that doesn't mean they couldn't.

2nd scenario: Not basically. It would be. Depending on the country you are trying to scam your way into though, the odds of your getting caught and the potential consequences for being caught vary greatly. In every country I am aware of though, you have to be legally married to a woman in the country for at least 1 year (but usually at least 2-3 years) before you can apply for citizenship, typically through naturalization which would come with all the normal requirements of naturalization albeit with a shorter residency requirement because of the marriage. How badly do you want that passport?
(This post was last modified: 01-12-2019 03:11 PM by Waqqle.)
01-12-2019 03:04 PM
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quaker13 Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Marriage
(01-12-2019 02:33 PM)Hypugamy Wrote:  
(01-12-2019 01:51 PM)Black Caesar Wrote:  What if she makes way more money than you or has a passport you want?

1st scenario rarely happens, or at least doesn't lead to a happy relationship.

2nd scenario, this would basically be a green card scam would it not?

I'm in the first scenario despite making pretty good money. This is what prompted me to get married in the first place. I knew in the current scenario i could start a family without fear of financial ruin due to my wife making so much more than me. My wife has no idea how well she could have it if she just backed off the masculine energy by about 50%. A real pity.
01-12-2019 03:27 PM
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Post: #15
RE: Marriage
I am going through divorce right now. After the honeymoon period, the woman changes considerably. I wouldn't do it again
01-12-2019 03:40 PM
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Waqqle Away
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Post: #16
RE: Marriage
(01-12-2019 03:40 PM)-g- Wrote:  I am going through divorce right now. After the honeymoon period, the woman changes considerably. I wouldn't do it again

What has your experience been like?
(This post was last modified: 01-12-2019 04:31 PM by Waqqle.)
01-12-2019 04:31 PM
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Hypno Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Marriage
The benefits to marriage are it's the best way to have children.
01-12-2019 04:34 PM
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Alpone Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Marriage
I admire men who are successfully married because it takes a whole other skillset I don't have. They have a stability and domestication society was built on. They know where their next meal is coming from.

But I've also seen many married men become cucked shadows of their former selves. They think they've won the game once they've walked down the aisle. That personal struggle and growth is done and they've finally achieved their final form until death to us part. They become weak and submissive.

Then they get BTFOd by the woman with the state and her lawyers becoming her personal hit men.

Like a few other people said, you need more resources (psychological, emotional & financial) now to be in a successful marriage than ever before. You're working against a powerful, degenerate feminist culture that values immediate gratification and a corrupt, anti-male legal system.

In this epoch, a man who can create a successful, happy marriage and maintain traditional gender roles in it is a warrior.
01-12-2019 07:14 PM
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nek Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Marriage
(01-12-2019 01:51 PM)Black Caesar Wrote:  What if she makes way more money than you?

That's the rub. Women rarely marry down financially (if they do, they get a pre-nup). So that goes to show their view of the arrangement.

Honestly, two issues I see with marriage.

1) The partner in the relationship can change their mind on an important issue (such as having kids), let themselves go, or otherwise become an unnecessary burden (starts spending money frivolously) and there's really no recourse you can take that won't cost you. While cheating, physical abuse, and other things can get you out of the situation without too much penalty, there's nothing to prevent a bait-and-switch in other aspects of the relationship.

2) One thing that gets overlooked is how many hormone-driven hard pivots a woman will make in her life. This is especially noticeable around the mid 30s-mid 40s when they hit that last hormonal peak before menopause (this is the sexual peak you hear people talk about). It's difficult making a permanent choice on a feeling that may be quite temporary. Men have a hard time conceptualizing this as we only have one drastic change in hormones (puberty), level off for a coupe decades, and then experience a very slow and gradual decline. Women have at least two, and probably more with child birth included.

Civilize the mind but make savage the body.
01-12-2019 11:09 PM
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nek Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Marriage
(01-12-2019 04:34 PM)Hypno Wrote:  The benefits to marriage are it's the best way to have children.

This has more to do with the values/mentality of the people involved than the act of getting married and having your arrangement approved by the state.

Civilize the mind but make savage the body.
01-12-2019 11:13 PM
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StrikeBack Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Marriage
I'm happily married. Upsides, in no particular order:

* I have a beautiful and much younger wife whose youthfulness keeps me young and entertained. She makes me laugh all the time.
* As much sex as I want, and more. I look or grin/grunt at her in a certain way and she's good to go. I have to manage that or else I'd never get anything done!
* Godly submissive homemaker who is my helpmeet and obeys my commands.
* I love leading and teaching her. Makes me feel powerful.
* I love running Patriarch Game, any sign of rebellion or other silly woman-thinking is swiftly squashed.
* Nutritious homecooked meals, all the time. I have not cooked anything in the kitchen for years (and I used to be a bit of a chef).
* My home is minimalist, tidy and clean, always. I have not washed the dishes, done the laundry or cleaned the house for years except when she's sick, which is very rarely.
* Every time I come home, she greets me with the kind of joy you get from your puppy. And I get to come home twice a day, at lunch and dinner.
* She's my warrior's retreat. When I come home tired from work or training, she feeds me, entertains me, massages me and pleases me in bed.
* She is a talented sewer and makes beautiful clothes for us. She always dresses to please me.
* She hustles, loves to be entrepreneurial, and is getting ready to homeschool our children.
* With her playing super tight defense at home, I can focus more on my work and investments, which are bringing us closer every day towards financial freedom.
* She's pregnant with our first born son. I'm proud beyond words of both of them.

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01-13-2019 04:43 AM
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Hypugamy Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Marriage
(01-13-2019 04:43 AM)StrikeBack Wrote:  I'm happily married. Upsides, in no particular order:

* I have a beautiful and much younger wife whose youthfulness keeps me young and entertained. She makes me laugh all the time.
* As much sex as I want, and more. I look or grin/grunt at her in a certain way and she's good to go. I have to manage that or else I'd never get anything done!
* Godly submissive homemaker who is my helpmeet and obeys my commands.
* I love leading and teaching her. Makes me feel powerful.
* I love running Patriarch Game, any sign of rebellion or other silly woman-thinking is swiftly squashed.
* Nutritious homecooked meals, all the time. I have not cooked anything in the kitchen for years (and I used to be a bit of a chef).
* My home is minimalist, tidy and clean, always. I have not washed the dishes, done the laundry or cleaned the house for years except when she's sick, which is very rarely.
* Every time I come home, she greets me with the kind of joy you get from your puppy. And I get to come home twice a day, at lunch and dinner.
* She's my warrior's retreat. When I come home tired from work or training, she feeds me, entertains me, massages me and pleases me in bed.
* She is a talented sewer and makes beautiful clothes for us. She always dresses to please me.
* She hustles, loves to be entrepreneurial, and is getting ready to homeschool our children.
* With her playing super tight defense at home, I can focus more on my work and investments, which are bringing us closer every day towards financial freedom.
* She's pregnant with our first born son. I'm proud beyond words of both of them.

That's impressive stuff. Do you mind telling us more details about your marriage? IE: your respective races, ages, how you met, education levels. Sounds like you're a great role-model for a lot of lost guys here to emulate.
01-13-2019 02:24 PM
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StrikeBack Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Marriage
Thanks mate Smile I'm Asian, my wife is mixed European. We're mid 30s / mid 20s now. We met at a dance ball, it was like an old movie. We both have university degrees.

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01-14-2019 04:23 AM
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Post: #24
RE: Marriage
I was married (she was cool and I messed it up).

Now I have a long term mostly live-in girlfriend. (she is not a 10, or an Instagram model, but I have little to complain about). We are both divorced and didn't want to go through the hoopla again. But she is here most nights, keeps the bed warm, and the kitchen clean. Makes my morning tea.

Marriage Benefits:

1. Having someone who can sign stuff for you, or help you in a medical emergency. Physically do stuff like pay bills.
2. Adds credibility to your professional life. Some people find it to be weird if you are single in your late 30s.
3. Someone to travel with, bring to events, and hold out as your better half.
4. Some tax and legal benefits. If you own a house jointly, it's virtually impossible to take it due to tenency in the entireties. Creditors cannot usually hit joint bank accounts.
5. Stability. You become friends with her family, yours with hers, etc. (hopefully). I hang out with my girlfriend's family.
6. The ceremony is fun, because it's all your friends and her friends.
7. You might want kids, and a mother to raise them.
8. Unlimited sex / blowjobs with zero effort
9. Splitting expenses, assuming she works.
10. It allows you to focus on your other endeavors. Gaming is a lot of work. When all your needs are met sexually and mentally, it frees up a lot of time.
11. Once you have a female on lockdown they generally want to be domesticated. Do your laundry, iron your shirts, clean the kitchen, etc. I literally just hand her a coffee cup without saying a word and a few minutes she comes back with hot tea. There is always cold tea in the fridge because that is what I like when I wake up.

That said, you can do a lot of different arrangements, though. Long term LTR, live-in girlfriend, open relationship, if that is what you want.

Personally, I have a very "non-traditional" relationship. We both own our own houses. She stays here in the winter, I stay there in the summer. We travel together. We have no plans for kids or a wedding. Sometimes I stray and she turns a blind eye.

Despite what you read online, there are plenty of pretty, nice, and well adjusted girls out there who are seeking a companion.
(This post was last modified: 01-14-2019 05:30 AM by HankMoody.)
01-14-2019 05:08 AM
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EndsExpect Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Marriage
I'm married because I wanted children. My situation is similar to StrikeBack's. My wife is a stay at home mom but is working on her real estate license, though I doubt she will do anything more than sell 1 house per year. She already went to medical school (free) and doesn't use it. She spends most of her time cooking, cleaning, and taking care of our daughter. She wants more kids. Her entire social circle consists of married women in our church... and these women are absolute baby factories. My wife is pressuring me to keep up. LOL.

It's hard for me to give up the tasks I did when I was single. I do my own laundry and although it pisses her off I often cook my own food. I also do dishes and other chores. I will say this... being married does allow you to focus energy on career and money. I'm doing better than ever.
01-14-2019 02:27 PM
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Laner, Montrose, StrikeBack, Deepdiver, Latamlover
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