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West: Sex on the first date or not?
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sarcofago Offline
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West: Sex on the first date or not?
Well, I have noticed some changes lately and I would like your opinion. I had a very productive 2018 with 30 notches, about 33% closing rate. I had sex with every woman that came to my flat after a first date. It's not the same anymore. My rate should be 10% at the moment and I reject a lot. What's happening now. I recently had women that came to my flat to smoke a joint or for other reasons, but not for sex. Sex is not happening anymore. I always go for sex on the first date, but in subtle way (unless too drunk.)
Recently, I invited a few dates for a drink to my flat, but that resulted in ghosting. What do you think about it, guys? Is it getting harder and harder? I'm not good at all in second dates in the West -usually never have second dates- and I mostly do online game. I live in the States.
(This post was last modified: 01-30-2019 08:31 AM by sarcofago.)
01-30-2019 08:23 AM
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lunchmoney Offline
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RE: West: Sex on the first date or not?
I didn't keep exact numbers for 2018, but honestly 1/3 of the girls I dated I banged on the first date. The large majority of the rest on the second. There were two that took longer than that, and looking back they were LTR material.
01-30-2019 07:47 PM
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Aenema Offline
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RE: West: Sex on the first date or not?
if you meet a girl in real life, then follow up with a first date, they're more likely to bang. even some non-super-slutty girls.
the girls who are meeting you online, and having sex the first time they meet you in person, are generally massive sluts.
01-30-2019 08:33 PM
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RDF Offline
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RE: West: Sex on the first date or not?
It could be any number of reasons... time of the year (January is usually a slow month), trying out a different app, or just random variability. I've had 6 month long dry streaks and then suddenly pulled 3 girls within 2 weeks with no real change in my game. It happens to many of us. We're barely a month into 2019 so its too early to draw meaningful conclusions.

If you feel like your game is the same as it was, then its nothing to worry about, just keep doing what you're doing. Girls are still having sex the first night in the US, don't worry about that hah.
01-30-2019 09:05 PM
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RE: West: Sex on the first date or not?
Sex on the first date is now used as an anti-flaking mechanism. Better make the first date sex really good now, or else she will flake.
05-14-2019 08:25 AM
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MaceTyrell Offline
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RE: West: Sex on the first date or not?
(05-14-2019 08:25 AM)SW15 Wrote:  Sex on the first date is now used as an anti-flaking mechanism. Better make the first date sex really good now, or else she will flake.

And for the girls you supposedly "give multple orgasms to" and then they flake anyway?

My rule is smash on the first date. If you don't smash on the first date, you must have already hammered down specifics on the next time you two will hang.

That's been the general trend I've seen over the past 2 1/2 years.
05-14-2019 12:16 PM
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DonnyGately Offline
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RE: West: Sex on the first date or not?
I do much better going for it on 2nd date, but certainly have my share of SDLs. A few take longer than 2 of course.
05-14-2019 05:43 PM
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Hypno Online
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RE: West: Sex on the first date or not?
(01-30-2019 08:23 AM)sarcofago Wrote:  Well, I have noticed some changes lately and I would like your opinion. I had a very productive 2018 with 30 notches, about 33% closing rate. I had sex with every woman that came to my flat after a first date. It's not the same anymore. My rate should be 10% at the moment and I reject a lot. What's happening now. I recently had women that came to my flat to smoke a joint or for other reasons, but not for sex. Sex is not happening anymore. I always go for sex on the first date, but in subtle way (unless too drunk.)
Recently, I invited a few dates for a drink to my flat, but that resulted in ghosting. What do you think about it, guys? Is it getting harder and harder? I'm not good at all in second dates in the West -usually never have second dates- and I mostly do online game. I live in the States.

Closing a third of your dates is fairly good.

What I find interesting is that you closed every girl who came to your house, presumably this is a second date. But lately you can't close.

After you acquire certain skills like conversation and escalating, closing is really a matter of logistics and inner game. Inner game is my strength, and I close 80% or better of girls who come to my place. But I'm lazy and I have a few other drawbacks (health), so I usually pass if I can't get them to come to my house.

I would say look inward and ask yourself if something has shaken your confidence? If not, then just plow through it, its a temporary streak. If something is affecting your confidence, then work on that. Make a list of your advantages, things you should be thankful for. If you are creative and patient enough, anything that is a drawback can be interpreted as an advantage. For example, I was just having a beer at a bar and talking to a 25 year old guy. He was fit, but had a bird chest. That's how I was when I was 25. But I'm 50, and 50 lbs overweight. When I was his age, I thought that being slim was a disadvantage. Now I view it as an advantage. Then I thought age was a hindrance, now I see it as an advantage. Its all a matter of perspective. Gain perspective, improve your confidence, and you'll be closing soon.

As for ghosting, I think you mean flaking, yeah that happens. Happens more to me being 50 and overweight. All you can do is throw more irons into the fire. As a young man, you have the advantage of having more patience. Flaking just wears me out physically and emotionally.

I think those are the most important things. You should re-read the Same night lay thread. Always go for the same night lay, if you get a second date that is gravy. It took me a long time to accept that I could pull this off and that this was better than the slow approach. But you got 30 notches in a year. You can do this.

If anything, now is the time to be more aggressive. Make more approaches. Invite them to your flat for a first date drink. Tell THEM to behave themselves.

Let us know what you try and how it works out.
05-14-2019 08:11 PM
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MaceTyrell
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RE: West: Sex on the first date or not?
I'm back to a SNL or bust strategy. I've had so many flakes after a great first date that seemed like a lock for second date sex. That's more demoralizing than getting shot down trying for a SNL.
05-14-2019 08:12 PM
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compgeek718
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Post: #10
RE: West: Sex on the first date or not?
RE SNL or bust strategy:

I only do second dates if they don't come to my house on the first date.

If they come to my house on the first date and I don't close them, then I'm not going to close the next time. So in that respect I have a SNL or bust strategy.

But about 20% wont' meet at my house, I meet in public. About half of these come back to my house that date, some on a next date. Some I don't close. I don't close a bigger percentage of the ones who won't come to my house on the first date, but frankly some of those were the biggest freaks so I don't have a rule against public dates.

I've come to realize that women are so flaky that investing time in 3 dates is a waste. The investment has no correlation with the result. Your are 3X better off going on dates with 3 different women and going for SNLs than investing 3 dates with 1 woman.
05-14-2019 08:21 PM
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compgeek718 Offline
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Post: #11
RE: West: Sex on the first date or not?
(05-14-2019 08:21 PM)Hypno Wrote:  RE SNL or bust strategy:

I only do second dates if they don't come to my house on the first date.

If they come to my house on the first date and I don't close them, then I'm not going to close the next time. So in that respect I have a SNL or bust strategy.

But about 20% wont' meet at my house, I meet in public. About half of these come back to my house that date, some on a next date. Some I don't close. I don't close a bigger percentage of the ones who won't come to my house on the first date, but frankly some of those were the biggest freaks so I don't have a rule against public dates.

I've come to realize that women are so flaky that investing time in 3 dates is a waste. The investment has no correlation with the result. Your are 3X better off going on dates with 3 different women and going for SNLs than investing 3 dates with 1 woman.

I agree wholeheartedly. This has been my overall dating strategy in the past year and so far I am getting good results. Direct invites to my place for the first date is standard procedure. If I do decide to do a public 1st date, it's usually a coffee shop or a fast casual restaurant (i.e Chipotle, Jamba Juice, Shake Shack etc) within 15 mins of my place and a max date budget of $20. Most women these days are either boyfriend hunters or serial daters so it's really not wise for the average guy to pour so much time and hard-earned money into them.
05-14-2019 09:18 PM
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Bycicleguy Offline
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RE: West: Sex on the first date or not?
I'm feeling the same although I'm feeling every year better as a men every year is kind of harder, but I still think it is better to go for the bang asap. I still get ghosted after banging but a lot of girls are more emotionally invested after sex so it is actually better to keep them. I usually don't invite them to my place directly though, but more to close spots.
05-17-2019 03:23 AM
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casa-nostra Offline
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RE: West: Sex on the first date or not?
what i find weird , is the word "west"

Just to let you know (because i know North american and european(east and west) very well) girls , Western girls are the fastest i have closed ever. Yes western girls are probably more picky or somtimes more bitchy , but for quick sex , SNL .... western , specially americans are the best.

Go to europe , and you will deal with " i dont kiss first date , i dont fuck before many dates" but in US(UK,Canada) , if she likes you , and you run normal game , you are good to close
(This post was last modified: 05-17-2019 08:46 AM by casa-nostra.)
05-17-2019 08:42 AM
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Roath Park Offline
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Post: #14
RE: West: Sex on the first date or not?
If you search on here there's two very good methods for zero date bangs/one date bangs.

As a guy who is in a LTR, it's risky to meet a woman in public, so I usually just invite herself to mine or invite myself to hers. Yes this will scare the cat for some women but it's not worth it for me potentially getting caught out with a woman other than my LTR in a relatively small city.

I've gotten around 100 notches in the last 3 years, 90% of which have been this method, with very few going to a bar for a drink first and if then it's only for 1 drink, never food, maybe 10 of those hundred at most.

If you meet in private for a first date then she knows what's going to happen, so even moderate LMR can be overcome with even average game. I would estimate my conversion rate is 90%.

Given my situation it's difficult to day/night game without risk of bumping into someone who knows my LTR, so I almost exclusively use SA/Tinder for my pussy stream. I even play the sugar daddy tinder game which has worked relatively well (I'm 34 and the average age of my bangs are 21). I'm an average looking guy with average game and I'm still proud of some of the 8's I've had come straight over mine for sex, yes I get the occasional 5, but as someone said here before, a 5 in your bed is better than a 9 in your head.

Before anyone shouts about p4p, the most I've ever paid for a date is the cost of their uber to mine and back, the least you can do if you've had a good night and better than spending a lot on a first date drink/food. If you're not willing to eventually take them out on dates (or commit to a financial arrangement if playing the sugar daddy game) in my experience you'll get maximum 3 bangs out of them before they move on elsewhere.

The key is having a IDGAF attitude and building a pipeline? Fed up of women flaking on you? Pipeline 3 women for the same timeslot and if 2 cancel then you've still got the chance of a bang that night. I've had a situation before where I've had to move one to a later time slot and then had two bangs, 9pm and midnight.

I've only ever signed up for SA on a weeks trial basis but by spamming out a cut and paste message with my number to WhatsApp me if they were interested I ended up with 200 women messaging me from A WEEK. Regardless if some were pro's or expecting me to eventually handover cash I had women chasing me to let me fuck them. Surely this is the dream.

If this sounds like a lot of effort then it is, but like most things in life you need to work at it.
05-17-2019 09:03 AM
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RougeNoir Offline
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RE: West: Sex on the first date or not?
I'm having a slow year, myself. Mine is due to my incessant traveling and inability to stay in one spot to work on prospects. Have been relying on SNLs that have only happened twice this year.
05-17-2019 10:23 AM
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RE: West: Sex on the first date or not?
(05-14-2019 05:43 PM)DonnyGately Wrote:  I do much better going for it on 2nd date, but certainly have my share of SDLs. A few take longer than 2 of course.

Yeah same for me. I find that if I expect to fuck her on the first date, I usually get impatient and rush my game to just get her back to my place (or hers).

So now I usually go on the first date/meet with no set intentions. If we end up having sex, great. If not, that's fine too.

Although I will say most girls I bang on the 2nd date usually tell me they would have slept with me on the 1st date.

It has never been easier to bang on the 1st date than it is been today. These women are straight up sluts. Don't let them fool you.

OP, you're probably just going through a cold streak. It happens to all of us.

"Once you've gotten the lay you have won."- Mufasa

"You Miss 100% of the shots you don't take"- Wayne Gretzky
05-17-2019 01:26 PM
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griffinmill Offline
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RE: West: Sex on the first date or not?
My modus operandi (especially in EE where I game a lot) is just to go on the first date and be cool. Don't be too pushy. Just sit back and have a nice time. I try to get her back to my place if the vibe is 100% on, otherwise I just leave it. Most of the time I leave it. They text later that night or the next day. Bang is guaranteed on 2nd or 3rd date. This is not the west where chicks flake at the drop of a hat. In Poland and Ukraine they're coming out again to see you, often straight to your place next time.

Why push it on the first date? I'm not in scarcity. Rush it only in western cities where the chicks ghost after a great date.
05-17-2019 04:00 PM
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