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What is morality? Who decides?
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Sherman Offline
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Post: #51
RE: What is morality? Who decides?
Here is a video from "Philosophy Bites" discussing Nietzsche on the Origin of Good and Evil. It gives a digestible discussion, only 14 minutes long.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzxo0Ds6lA8

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02-10-2019 11:55 PM
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RE: What is morality? Who decides?
(02-10-2019 10:29 PM)MrLemon Wrote:  In 10 years every one of these will be ruthlessly suppressed. You will be a zealous muslim, wearing a black clothing, and women will be wearing bonnets or veils. Anyone who doesn't adhere to this will be hanged publicly.

there, ftfy.
02-11-2019 04:02 AM
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ilostabet Online
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Post: #53
RE: What is morality? Who decides?
(02-11-2019 04:02 AM)Oberrheiner Wrote:  
(02-10-2019 10:29 PM)MrLemon Wrote:  In 10 years every one of these will be ruthlessly suppressed. You will be a zealous muslim, wearing a black clothing, and women will be wearing bonnets or veils. Anyone who doesn't adhere to this will be hanged publicly.

there, ftfy.

I think this would be a best-case scenario. Worst case would be an integration of a moderated form of Islam, with the outward appearance of it, but subservient to globohomo social liberalism. Like trannies in burkas. If any culture can destroy traditional morality wherever it comes from is the modern globohomo cosmopolitan one.
02-11-2019 06:36 AM
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Avoy Offline
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Post: #54
RE: What is morality? Who decides?
I'm digging Buddhist Roosh here. I think you guys will enjoy what he has to say as well. Many points are relevant to things we discuss and struggle with on this forum. I like his distinction between institutional religion, religion, and a spiritual path. His thoughts on wants vs. needs hit the mark.



(This post was last modified: 02-11-2019 01:12 PM by Avoy.)
02-11-2019 12:12 PM
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Avoy Offline
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Post: #55
RE: What is morality? Who decides?
(02-10-2019 11:55 PM)Sherman Wrote:  Here is a video from "Philosophy Bites" discussing Nietzsche on the Origin of Good and Evil. It gives a digestible discussion, only 14 minutes long.




Admittedly, I'm not too familiar with Nietzsche's thoughts and works, like "On the Genealogy of Morality" and his idea of a self-invented slave morality, but it's apparent he's gone down the same path and questioned why we have the morals that we do, how they originated, and what's possible if we are unshackled from them. Fascinating stuff. Thank you for sharing.
(This post was last modified: 02-11-2019 01:22 PM by Avoy.)
02-11-2019 12:59 PM
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Avoy Offline
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Post: #56
RE: What is morality? Who decides?
It's really quite amazing how people who set themselves on the path of enlightenment often traverse the same roads. My two topics of interest the past couple years have been Stoicism and Buddhism. I too see an overlap in their way of thinking, morals, and values. Living in Thailand for a while now I've also noticed how these ideas influence the people and culture. Try imagining a culture influenced by Stoicism. What's been fascinating is seeing it in action on occasion. There have been times when I've dealt with Thai people (young and old) in a business setting and I hear them say certain phrases or express certain sentiments to me that resonate with me philosophically. I can immediately tell they're true Buddhists in their thinking and intentions. It's so foreign to what a Westerner who's chasing status and wealth might say. I guess it's something you would have to experience first-hand to understand and have an appreciation for. Nonetheless, it's very cool.



(This post was last modified: 02-12-2019 04:40 AM by Avoy.)
02-12-2019 03:52 AM
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Post: #57
RE: What is morality? Who decides?
Morality is Some Beliefs, Etiquette, Behavior, Respect, Way of Living Life in the Right Direction which you get from your Parents, teachers & atmosphere around you.

Your Environment Defines Morality.
Thanks! UFABET
02-12-2019 11:25 AM
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Avoy Offline
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Post: #58
RE: What is morality? Who decides?
I just had my aha moment on the Globalist thread.

(02-12-2019 11:44 AM)Avoy Wrote:  I think it's fair to say at this point that the US will continue to morph into whatever it wants to become for competitive advantage on the world stage under the guise of the economy and national security. As you know... being #1 is of "paramount importance." USA! USA! USA!

So if you're a nationalist who's concerned about silly things like culture and quality of life, what matters to you doesn't line up with what the goals of the leadership and elite are. Any effort to improve (or save) society for a greater good is for nothing, really, because the course has already been set and you're just a passenger. As long you perform your duties without putting too much strain on the system ("Sir, please go back to your seat."), they're happy. So enjoy your netflix, hook-ups, fast food, credit lines, etc. because you deserve it. Values and morals are whatever our entertainment overlords have pre-selected for us ("Click the 'Home' icon for a menu of options on the screen in front of you.").

[Image: tmg-article_default_mobile;jpeg_quality=100.jpg]

This probably applies to all countries who have grand aspirations of competing on a global stage or are being micro-managed by a large organization like the EU.
(This post was last modified: 02-12-2019 01:31 PM by Avoy.)
02-12-2019 12:33 PM
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Avoy Offline
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Post: #59
RE: What is morality? Who decides?
Now I see why Buddhism never caught on in the West. It's a thinking man's religion / philosophy of life. "Critical Thinking" isn't a trait valued or practiced in modern society. Also, people questioning authority and inquiring why things are the way they are in ancient times probably wasn't something the rulers would have liked or encourage.

Quote:The Way Of Inquiry
[...] Buddha pointed out the danger in fashioning one's beliefs merely on the following grounds: on hearsay, on tradition, because many others say it is so, on the authority of ancient scriptures, on the word of a supernatural being, or out of trust in one's teachers, elders, or priests. Instead one maintains an open mind and thoroughly investigates one's own experience of life. When one sees for oneself that a particular view agrees with both experience and reason, and leads to the happiness of one and all, then one should accept that view and live up to it!

This principle, of course, applies to the Buddha's own Teachings. They should be considered and inquired into using the clarity of mind born of meditation. Only when one sees these Teachings for oneself in the experience of insight, do these Teachings become one's Truth and give blissful liberation.

The traveller on the way of inquiry needs the practice of tolerance. Tolerance does not mean that one embraces every idea or view but means one doesn't get angry at what one can't accept.

Further along the journey, what one once disagreed with might later be seen to be true. So in the spirit of tolerant inquiry, here are some more of the basic Teachings as the Buddha gave them.
(This post was last modified: 02-14-2019 12:52 AM by Avoy.)
02-14-2019 12:45 AM
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MrLemon Offline
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Post: #60
RE: What is morality? Who decides?
(02-11-2019 04:02 AM)Oberrheiner Wrote:  
(02-10-2019 10:29 PM)MrLemon Wrote:  In 10 years every one of these will be ruthlessly suppressed. You will be a zealous muslim, wearing a black clothing, and women will be wearing bonnets or veils. Anyone who doesn't adhere to this will be hanged publicly.

there, ftfy.

Actually this is a key point. I could easily see an alliance between Christians and Muslims to destroy gays and Feminism.
02-14-2019 01:03 AM
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RatInTheWoods Offline
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Post: #61
RE: What is morality? Who decides?
(01-31-2019 05:51 PM)Waqqle Wrote:  If there are no gods, then asking what/who defines morality is as meaningless as asking which color is the best color.

Great in theory, but it falls over when no actual gods turn up to tell us the rules directly, and instead we get illiterate shepherds being the intermediary and thus we get morally justified divine approved pedofillia and genital mutilation and beheadings, as it is god's will, alla akaba.

"morality is as meaningless" doesn't hold up as true, if you think so consider the difference between Saudi arabia and western civilisation.

Different cultures definition of morality is very meaningful and leads to a great life, so has a very high value and meaning.
02-14-2019 01:16 AM
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Avoy Offline
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Post: #62
RE: What is morality? Who decides?
Just sharing as I'm learning. This will be my last post on Morality as it relates to Buddhism for a while as I take a deeper dive on my own.

Buddhists' spiritual path of enlightenment: Virtue > Meditation > Wisdom

Virtue is of particular importance because you can't meditate on things and find wisdom without it. To achieve this, Buddhists follow a Noble Eightfold Path.

[Image: 500px-Dharmachakra%2C_withprint_%28en%29.svg.png]

Of these 8 items, Right Speech, Right Action, and Right Livelihood are directly related to Virtue and Morality. In addition, and similar to the 10 Commandments, Buddhists have 5 Precepts, which they refrain from:

1. [Murder] Deliberately causing the death of any living being;
2. [Stealing] Intentionally taking for one's own the property of another;
3. [Adultery] Sexual misconduct, in particular adultery;
4. [Lying] Lying and breaking promises;
5. [Intoxication] Drinking alcohol or taking stupefying drugs which lead to lack of mindfulness.

The cool thing here is that from the beginning Buddhist teaching focuses on getting your mind right first in order to have the right view of reality so you can better control your thoughts and your reactions to things (think: Stoicism).

I can also see how the concept of Karma is a powerful guiding force and a benefit to people and society in general:

Quote:Kamma means 'action'. The Law of Kamma means that there are inescapable results of our actions. There are deeds of body, speech or mind that lead to others' harm, one's own harm, or to the harm of both. Such deeds are called bad (or 'unwholesome') kamma. They are usually motivated by greed, hatred or delusion. Because they bring painful results, they should not be done.

There are also deeds of body, speech or mind that lead to others' well being, one's own well being, or to the well being of both. Such deeds are called good (or 'wholesome') kamma. They are usually motivated by generosity, compassion or wisdom. Because they bring happy results, they should be done as often as possible.
(This post was last modified: 02-14-2019 07:48 AM by Avoy.)
02-14-2019 07:26 AM
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No More Mr. Soy Boy Offline
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Post: #63
RE: What is morality? Who decides?
The best take I've ever seen on this is Stefan Molyneux's concept of Universally Preferable Behavior.

Here's a 15 min summary video about it he made (but it obviously requires one to go deeper than that to understand):





Whole book:



http://cdn.media.freedomainradio.com/fee...ux_PDF.pdf


The people who tends to think moral is relative are usually the ones that will have no problem to steal, lie, cheat etc. from you if it helps them in some way.

I think deep questions like this is very important to have with a potential wife. If she can't understand simple laws of logic and think it's all relative, then that is a big issue.
02-15-2019 11:47 AM
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Post: #64
RE: What is morality? Who decides?
Good on Carl Carl Benjamin (Sargon of Akkad) for being part of the UKIP reformation and stating what needs to change and be protected in the UK. If only the Republican Party would do the same and actually stand for something that could influence the culture in a positive way and fight back against the progressive agenda/morality.



02-19-2019 01:39 PM
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Avoy Offline
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Post: #65
RE: What is morality? Who decides?
If you guys think politicians can't do anything to help, then you're overlooking the fact that their policies and stance on social issues are primarily responsible for changing our culture and standard of living.
(This post was last modified: 02-20-2019 01:04 AM by Avoy.)
02-20-2019 01:00 AM
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Avoy Offline
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Post: #66
RE: What is morality? Who decides?
Found this interesting. Buddhists recommend you treat your study and practice of Buddhism the same way we advise people to share their Red and Black Pill knowledge.

Not everyone is ready to accept it. Better to wait for people to ask you about it.

Quite the opposite of religions who wish to convert (Islam) or save (Christianity) you and others who want to perfect the world (Judaism).

Quote:HOW DO I TELL MY FAMILY AND FRIENDS?

Perhaps it is not needed or even well-advised to make a public statement when you study Buddhism or have taken refuge. Instead, try to study and practice what you learn in everyday life; it is likely that people around you will begin to notice changes for the better and when they begin inquiring, you can try to answer honestly and modestly. If people react on your positive changes you already made a very valid point why you practice. No philosophical discussion can ever beat your positive example. Try to avoid a heavy yes/no discussion, but show what you mean with your attitude by remaining calm, and not over-enthusiastic. When people notice too great excitement about your new discovery, they may fear you lost it a bit and will now shave your head, wear robes and wander off to some strange sect etc. Remember that Buddhism should be taught only when others ask for it, so don't be too over-enthusiastic by throwing "the Buddhist view of the world" to everyone who comes near you.
(This post was last modified: 02-22-2019 01:46 PM by Avoy.)
02-22-2019 01:18 PM
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RatInTheWoods Offline
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Post: #67
RE: What is morality? Who decides?
(02-15-2019 11:47 AM)No More Mr. Soy Boy Wrote:  


Great Post Mr Soy!

This should be the "go to" answer for those religious people that wonder how or why atheists behave morally.

Humans have capacity for empathy, and instinctively know morals and values.

Religion comes from these origins, not the other way around.
02-22-2019 08:16 PM
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Avoy Offline
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RE: What is morality? Who decides?
(02-22-2019 08:16 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  
(02-15-2019 11:47 AM)No More Mr. Soy Boy Wrote:  


Great Post Mr Soy!

This should be the "go to" answer for those religious people that wonder how or why atheists behave morally.

Humans have capacity for empathy, and instinctively know morals and values.

Religion comes from these origins, not the other way around.

Yup, sounds right. The kryptonite to Universally Accepted Behavior may be when a third party puts an incentive to act in a way that's unnatural, immoral, or against someone's best interest and calling it "good," "fair" or "empowering". Thinking Marxism, feminism, abortion on-demand, etc. Once you've jumped through that hoop, it all becomes relative.

I'll go with Buddha's advise on this one (compatible with UAB and your point of "Religion comes from these origins, not the other way around.")...

"Only when it agrees with your experience and reason, and when it is conducive to the good and gain of oneself and all others, then one should accept the teachings, and live up to them."
(This post was last modified: 02-22-2019 09:28 PM by Avoy.)
02-22-2019 08:54 PM
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Sherman Offline
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Post: #69
RE: What is morality? Who decides?
Slavery was condoned in both the Old and New Testaments. But today slavery is universally considered immoral. So, obviously morals come from humans and not some supernatural source that never makes mistakes. The Bible just went along with the conventions of the day. It took almost 2000 years of civilization to finally conclude slavery wasn't moral. But why is slavery not moral today but was in the past? Because morality is not constant over time.

However, it is interesting that the Buddha rejected the caste system which was accepted by everyone in his community circa the 5th century BC. Also, many Ancient Greek and Roman philosophers spoke out against slavery. Epictetus, the stoic philosopher was a slave. They were able to come to their conclusion just using logical thought.



https://donaldrobertson.name/2017/11/05/...n-slavery/

Rico... Sauve....
02-23-2019 01:53 AM
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Avoy Offline
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Post: #70
RE: What is morality? Who decides?
Anyone heard of Propertarianism? This is my first time being exposed to this. Basically, a group of people discussed some of the same things we brought up (morality, politics, quality of life, culture, etc.) and came up with a whole new system inspired by the US constitution, natural law, the scientific method, property rights, and reciprocity. This goes way beyond reforming the Republican Party. A chance to offer people something better (a counter to the progressive/globalists left). Fascinating stuff.

"You can't debate with cancer. You can... but you're still going to die." -- Devon Stack in this podcast





https://propertarianism.com/basic-concepts/
(This post was last modified: 02-23-2019 01:42 PM by Avoy.)
02-23-2019 01:06 PM
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Post: #71
RE: What is morality? Who decides?
Great in theory, however it falls over once no actual gods manifest itself to inform North American nation the principles directly, and instead we have a tendency to get illiterate shepherds being the intercessor and therefore we have a tendency to get virtuously even divine approved pedofillia and sex organ injury and beheadings, because it is God's Will, alla akaba.

"morality is as meaningless" does not impediment as true, if you're thinking that therefore think about the distinction between Asian nation and western civilisation.

Different cultures definition of morality is incredibly meaty and results in a good life, therefore incorporates a terribly high worth and that means. PandaSBO
03-04-2019 06:45 AM
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Avoy Offline
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Post: #72
RE: What is morality? Who decides?
I thought this "box" concept and explanation was pretty good by this anger management doctor. It gives you a different perspective on Truth. What he talks about relates to this and other discussions on this forum at a high level.



(This post was last modified: 03-23-2019 10:06 PM by Avoy.)
03-23-2019 09:58 PM
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Sherman Offline
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RE: What is morality? Who decides?
His concept of the box reminds me of skepticism. "Skepticism" was actually a spiritual movement (like Cynicism and Stoicism) in Greece. The idea was to obtain tranquility by not accepting any opinion as true. The spiritual practice is to suspend all judgment of beliefs (epoche), gathering arguments on both sides and disputing them until you achieve a state of tranquility (ataraxia). Pyrrho, the founder of Skepticism, went to India with Alexander the Great and met with the Indian yogis (called gymnosophists) which may have inspired his development of skepticism.

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03-24-2019 12:27 AM
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questor70 Offline
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RE: What is morality? Who decides?
A couple posts here touch on what I feel is the root of it all.

(start autism)

First, the bit about morality serving an evolutionary purpose. Morality (and its flipside, shame) are what fosters cooperation. It's the glue that holds a tribe together. If you violate the code of conduct of the tribe, you get shunned and/or cast out. The reason you get cast out is that the tribe at that time needed to be a well-oiled machine. Each part needed to function in unison. A while back I visited "Plimoth Plantation" and you can see this up close and personal. The crew of a small ship formed a miniscule fledgling colony. For all of the necessities of life to be provided, there needed to be very careful division of labor. In a way you can think of it like a commune. Regular freemarket capitalism and rampant individualism simply DOES NOT WORK at that scale. Everyone needs to sort of know their place. If there's only one guy who knows how to be a blacksmith, he can't just stop blacksmithing and take up pottery to follow his bliss. The colony is counting on him to do what he does, and hopefully to train others for when he's no longer able to do it, otherwise there won't be nails and horseshoes and so on.

I don't watch a lot of reality TV but all those Lord of the Flies style Survival shows are compelling because they take people who have no concept of any of the above and thrust them into a situation where they have to relearn them. This is also why normies watch that sort of shit. Because it provides a window into a way of living that has become so foreign. We are fascinated by it, but at the same time, we don't really want to go back to it, because we see that sort of lifestyle as confining and too demanding.

So rules and morality and social mores are sort of like the operating system of a society. They put up guardrails meant to protect society's ability to function.

As society urbanizes and becomes more and more technological, the need for social cohesion atrophies. Decadence has been an overused epithet but it's still a thing. Decadence at the end of Rome, decadence during the Weimar Republic, and creeping decadence in the US.

SJWs perceive decadence as social evolution because they only see improvements in areas of individual rights. The proverbial blacksmith need no longer be a blacksmith. These are luxuries brought on by technology and prosperity. Take them away (ala Survivor) and older forms of community will naturally rush in to take their place. Worst case scenario would be Mad Max or Conan style warlordism.

Notice how much entertainment continues to flirt with these extremes. There's so much apocalyptic fiction out there that you wonder why modern man is either afraid of apocalypse or in some repressed way, looking forward to it.

The point I'm trying to make is that biologically speaking, we really are not adapted to live 21st century lifestyles. We live in a constant state of cognitive dissonance about our instinct. This is especially acute with women. The proverbial hamster, like the other thread here about the woman who agreed to the gangbang and then cried foul later. But there are countless stories of men climbing up the corporate ladder only to realize that traditional success does not bring them the satisfaction society promised them.

Modern life is therefore lopsided in the sense that we're overloaded with creature comfort and cheap amusement and (for the beautiful, sex on tap). But what it lacks is a greater sense of purpose. We strive to feel useful to a "tribe". Individualism doesn't give us that.

How do people fill those gaps? Through hashtag movements, of course.

SJWs and hashtag movements are the closest thing to a tribe. Since we're not fighting a hot war or staving off a famine, people seek out something to crusade. That I think explains the rise of SJWs and the oversensitization of society to ever more trivial forms of social friction. Humans are at heart never truly satisfied. We're the equivalent of someone trying to cut a perfect circle by hand into a piece of construction paper until the circle is reduced to a tiny dot. The only way to stop that feedback loop is to introduce some huge shock to the system. A great depression, war, environmental collapse, etc... You'd be surprised how little an SJW will think about Captain Marvel wearing makeup in the Endgame trailer if she's standing over the smoldering ruins of her home that just burned down or by the side of the road after a car accident that just claimed her daughter. Prosperity destroys our ability to discern the truly important things in life.

So I think the problem is too often we attempt to try to scapegoat these problems when the reality is the way things are is, as I've explained above, a product of our environment.

The Amish live the way they do because they have artificially handicapped themselves to a primitive level of technology. Give the Amish all the creature comforts of modernity and it would be impossible for those values to persist. Life would be too easy. But since the Amish exist as a sandbox within greater society, there is a constant exodus of those who are aware of what life is like outside of their community and think the grass is greener.

History has proven that people are at heart lazy, hedonistic, and gluttonous. This is because we evolved in an environment of scarcity. So during any brief spike of prosperity we evolved to gobble it all down furiously. No different from most animals, really. We're not smart enough to know the downside of excess. We are all addicts or potential addicts.

Hate to sounds so misanthropic, but that's what life has taught me so far.
(This post was last modified: 03-25-2019 10:26 AM by questor70.)
03-25-2019 10:00 AM
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Post: #75
RE: What is morality? Who decides?
(03-25-2019 10:00 AM)questor70 Wrote:  So rules and morality and social mores are sort of like the operating system of a society. They put up guardrails meant to protect society's ability to function.

[...]

Modern life is therefore lopsided in the sense that we're overloaded with creature comfort and cheap amusement and (for the beautiful, sex on tap). But what it lacks is a greater sense of purpose. We strive to feel useful to a "tribe". Individualism doesn't give us that.

How do people fill those gaps? Through hashtag movements, of course.

Lot to take in, but these are my two favorite snippets.
03-25-2019 10:31 AM
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