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Recent trend: Employees "ghosting" on their employers
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Heuristics Offline
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Post: #101
RE: Recent trend: Employees "ghosting" on their employers
(02-12-2019 08:51 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  I think the new thing are jobs asking (requiring) employees to work an open schedule, they don't give you a set schedule and it changes every week. So not only can you not make any plans, but you also cannot get a second job. And if you wanted to get a second job, it probably requires you to keep an open schedule as well so you're double fucked.

This is much more insidious than temp work (at least with that you know you're fucked). Maybe a consequence of health insurance regulations now in the US, especially trying to keep around 30 hours or so.
02-12-2019 09:26 PM
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Post: #102
RE: Recent trend: Employees "ghosting" on their employers
(02-12-2019 09:26 PM)Heuristics Wrote:  
(02-12-2019 08:51 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  I think the new thing are jobs asking (requiring) employees to work an open schedule, they don't give you a set schedule and it changes every week. So not only can you not make any plans, but you also cannot get a second job. And if you wanted to get a second job, it probably requires you to keep an open schedule as well so you're double fucked.

This is much more insidious than temp work (at least with that you know you're fucked). Maybe a consequence of health insurance regulations now in the US, especially trying to keep around 30 hours or so.

I'd say it's due to the rise in scheduling being decided by a computer instead of a manager. The software tells the manager how many employees they will need based on forcasted sale numbers and store performance. Some stores will give you a set schedule but most will want you open in case the schedule changes. Had one case where they let me mom go early at 10am because sales were down but wanted her to come back at 6pm and work until closing.

Told her to tell them to GTFO and find another job, she found one with a set schedule.

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02-12-2019 10:21 PM
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Post: #103
RE: Recent trend: Employees "ghosting" on their employers
(02-12-2019 10:21 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  
(02-12-2019 09:26 PM)Heuristics Wrote:  
(02-12-2019 08:51 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  I think the new thing are jobs asking (requiring) employees to work an open schedule, they don't give you a set schedule and it changes every week. So not only can you not make any plans, but you also cannot get a second job. And if you wanted to get a second job, it probably requires you to keep an open schedule as well so you're double fucked.

This is much more insidious than temp work (at least with that you know you're fucked). Maybe a consequence of health insurance regulations now in the US, especially trying to keep around 30 hours or so.

I'd say it's due to the rise in scheduling being decided by a computer instead of a manager. The software tells the manager how many employees they will need based on forcasted sale numbers and store performance. Some stores will give you a set schedule but most will want you open in case the schedule changes. Had one case where they let me mom go early at 10am because sales were down but wanted her to come back at 6pm and work until closing.

Told her to tell them to GTFO and find another job, she found one with a set schedule.

Damn. Computers already are calling the shots.
02-12-2019 10:24 PM
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Post: #104
RE: Recent trend: Employees "ghosting" on their employers
(02-12-2019 10:21 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  
(02-12-2019 09:26 PM)Heuristics Wrote:  
(02-12-2019 08:51 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  I think the new thing are jobs asking (requiring) employees to work an open schedule, they don't give you a set schedule and it changes every week. So not only can you not make any plans, but you also cannot get a second job. And if you wanted to get a second job, it probably requires you to keep an open schedule as well so you're double fucked.

This is much more insidious than temp work (at least with that you know you're fucked). Maybe a consequence of health insurance regulations now in the US, especially trying to keep around 30 hours or so.

I'd say it's due to the rise in scheduling being decided by a computer instead of a manager. The software tells the manager how many employees they will need based on forcasted sale numbers and store performance. Some stores will give you a set schedule but most will want you open in case the schedule changes. Had one case where they let me mom go early at 10am because sales were down but wanted her to come back at 6pm and work until closing.

Told her to tell them to GTFO and find another job, she found one with a set schedule.

Yeah my gf has to deal with this issue constantly. On top of sending people home early. changing your shift without telling you the schedule has been changed.
Its a combination of computers doing the scheduling and extremely poor management (that continues to hire part time staff but at the same time goes around asking staff if they can go home early or cuts hours the day before your shift)

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02-13-2019 07:15 AM
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Post: #105
RE: Recent trend: Employees "ghosting" on their employers
(02-10-2019 10:27 AM)nomadbrah Wrote:  For those of us on the forum, the better move is definitely not to burn bridges. Always leave on a good note and always do a small task with the same enthusiasm and professionalism. This is one of those low key "markers of future success" that I've noticed through the years. People who do their shitty tasks diligently and in a good mood, usually end up better off. The same goes for those who make boring tasks into a competition.

The above is the best post in this thread.
Also, you guys are conflating ghosting on the way in and ghosting on the way out, which are completely different.
In my opinion, ghosting on the way in just demonstrates a complete lack of character. Unless I'm missing something, you ghost on the way in either because you got a better offer, or you're a gay millenial who has arrived at the conclusion that remaining idle presents a better value proposition than starting a job. If you got a better offer, just shoot off a polite two sentence e-mail explaining that, its not a big deal. If you're a gay millenial, then I understand you ghosting because I cannot imagine looking at myself in the mirror after actually putting into words that you would rather eat cheetos on your couch than start a new job. If you are ghosting on the way in, you've turned into that latin american girl that's two hours late for your date. A comprehensive disdain for the time and resources of other people.

I'm all for holding employers accountable. If they misrepresented the job description then fuck them, leave. You would never know that if you didn't show up for day 1.

Ghosting on the way out is fine because the employer might not honor the two weeks and/or employ a dramatic escort of you out of the building, so iIdon't really see a problem with that.


Other comments:
-In the US, it will vary by state, but it will cost an employer approximately $70k to pay you $40k of which you will take home $30k. Additional costs are:
-Payroll tax
-Workers Comp
-Payroll servicing/administration
-Unemployment Insurance
-Litigation risk/Wrongful Termination/Discrimination
-Fringe benefits
-Training
-Misc

Let's just make it easy and say you have to more than double your salary in profits to make it equitable to the employer to hire you. Doubling your salary is merely break even, and the employer would have been in the same position as if they had never bothered to hire you in the first place. So just layer whatever corporation your are thing of's profit margin on top of the double to get an idea of what type of profits you should be contributing to the company.

Comment #2:
-This idea that employers and companies have some sort of social responsibility to foster wholesome communities through they're employee relations is some gay shit and is the antithesis of what this forum is about. You want to help your community? Do something with your life, earn money, and spend it in your community. Employers are not a security net that is supposed to take care of people. They are supposed to earn money and pay taxes. That's it. Yes, I'm all for removing these ridiculous tax breaks that mega corporations abuse, that's obvious.
Paying useless people a "living wage" when they don't do shit is just welfare by a different name. You see it all throughout the municipal and government sector, complain about useless government workers, yet want corporations to do the same thing. WELFARE. Policeman/Fireman/Teachers --> WELFARE. If being one of these dramatically overpaid workers is such an act of charity, why is there a line down the street and around the corner every time there is a single opening for one of these positions? At least shaniqua with seven children stays the fuck out of my way when I'm trying to get shit done every day.

Comment #3:
Deepdiver had a good post about the trades. We live in the same general area. There is a ton of work available in the trades and customers will pay a premium for people who speak english and are professional. The narrative that illegal immigrants are stealing your jobs is way off base. Yes, maybe if all you have to offer is manual labor or are otherwise easily replaceable with no skills. Illegals are attractive in the construction trade because they are productive and they actually work. Plenty of illegals with skills are getting paid $25-$35 under the table which is equivalent to $50 on the books because they work hard and get shit done. They are also 100% more reliable than americans. Sorry. Never hear any bullshit excuse from them. When I say skills I mean finish carpentry, rough plumbing and electric. Contrast this with the typical union member.

The guy in DeepDiver's post would be earning double if he was willing to take the risk and open his own business. That's the moral of this story. Be self employed and you never have to deal with interviews or HR departments.
02-13-2019 12:18 PM
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TigerMandingo Offline
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Post: #106
RE: Recent trend: Employees "ghosting" on their employers
^I hear a good number of firemen in Northern California make around 250k a year. Yet whenever a burger flipper asks for a $1 raise people lose their shit Laugh

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02-13-2019 12:25 PM
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Baphomet Offline
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Post: #107
RE: Recent trend: Employees "ghosting" on their employers
(02-13-2019 12:18 PM)LowerCaseG Wrote:  Other comments:
-In the US, it will vary by state, but it will cost an employer approximately $70k to pay you $40k of which you will take home $30k. Additional costs are:
-Payroll tax
-Workers Comp
-Payroll servicing/administration
-Unemployment Insurance
-Litigation risk/Wrongful Termination/Discrimination
-Fringe benefits
-Training
-Misc

Let's just make it easy and say you have to more than double your salary in profits to make it equitable to the employer to hire you. Doubling your salary is merely break even, and the employer would have been in the same position as if they had never bothered to hire you in the first place. So just layer whatever corporation your are thing of's profit margin on top of the double to get an idea of what type of profits you should be contributing to the company.

Comment #2:
-This idea that employers and companies have some sort of social responsibility to foster wholesome communities through they're employee relations is some gay shit and is the antithesis of what this forum is about. You want to help your community? Do something with your life, earn money, and spend it in your community. Employers are not a security net that is supposed to take care of people. They are supposed to earn money and pay taxes. That's it. Yes, I'm all for removing these ridiculous tax breaks that mega corporations abuse, that's obvious.

Paying useless people a "living wage" when they don't do shit is just welfare by a different name. You see it all throughout the municipal and government sector, complain about useless government workers, yet want corporations to do the same thing. WELFARE. Policeman/Fireman/Teachers --> WELFARE. If being one of these dramatically overpaid workers is such an act of charity, why is there a line down the street and around the corner every time there is a single opening for one of these positions? At least shaniqua with seven children stays the fuck out of my way when I'm trying to get shit done every day.

Amen, +1.

It doesn't look like there are a lot of "employers" in this thread.

I'm in a very white collar job at present. Here is the FULL text of an actual email sent to my company, from a prospective job seeker:

"U guyz hiring
how much"


As you can imagine, I hopped right on that rock star! And gentlemen, this type of inquiry is not uncommon.

There is a behavioral equivalency between "ghosting" and being fired but it is not the one you might think. When I hire you, we have made an agreement. You agreed to do a specific job, and I agreed to compensate you for that job.

When you "ghost" on your job for whatever reason suits your panties, you are in the wrong for voluntarily breaking the agreement. Now, someone else has to work twice as hard (for the same pay) to try to cover the job that you've decided not to do.

When you get fired (for cause) you have also failed to live up to your agreement. That is not the employer's fault. Not doing your job as you agreed is YOUR fault. Just like "ghosting" is.

In both cases, the employer is in the right and the employee is in the wrong.

And no, I make no excuses for shitty organizations that do not respect their employee's time, and earnest efforts. But this "every employee is a hero" crap stinks of the same odor as the feminist blathering.
02-13-2019 02:09 PM
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Post: #108
RE: Recent trend: Employees "ghosting" on their employers
(02-13-2019 12:18 PM)LowerCaseG Wrote:  Comment #3:
Deepdiver had a good post about the trades. We live in the same general area. There is a ton of work available in the trades and customers will pay a premium for people who speak english and are professional. The narrative that illegal immigrants are stealing your jobs is way off base. Yes, maybe if all you have to offer is manual labor or are otherwise easily replaceable with no skills. Illegals are attractive in the construction trade because they are productive and they actually work. Plenty of illegals with skills are getting paid $25-$35 under the table which is equivalent to $50 on the books because they work hard and get shit done. They are also 100% more reliable than americans. Sorry. Never hear any bullshit excuse from them. When I say skills I mean finish carpentry, rough plumbing and electric. Contrast this with the typical union member.

Union guys in the northeast didn't do their causes any favors, that's for sure. That said, I'm not ready to light a candle for the patron saint of illegal immigrants just yet.

While admitting to reinforcing a fraudulent market which artificially drives down the cost of labor, you make a broad assumption about Juan Valdez and his skill set. Many people in the Houston area would dispute the idea that they do top quality work. Even with pre-fab materials the construction is slapdash.

Quote:Most renovation and much of construction is done through the use of “day laborers,” or mostly Hispanic men who sit at the edges of the parking lots of Home Depot and Loewes and other home construction businesses. Trucks pull up, shout out an offer for the day’s work, and then pick up a half-dozen men to go do a job. These groups follow a kind of “buddy system” where if at least one member of the group has some experience, the rest go along with it and do what he says. A network of mostly white but also Asian and African-American “contractors” make a good living by hiring day laborers, paying them relatively little, and taking the profits which are widened by lower labor costs.

Consequently standards of construction have plummeted. Homes fall apart; doors hang at odd angles; mysterious fires are more frequent. Since government is now also minority-dominated, each group represents itself. If the workers at a home that falls down are Hispanic, and the government officials investigating are Hispanic, the event is more likely to be classified as mysterious instead of a solution found.

This is to say nothing of the future for Juan Valdez and his crew. While paying nothing into the social security or medicaid system and pocketing the difference, employers who routinely champion the use of illegal labor and smugly walk away with the profits saying "Muh! free enterprise." ignore the fact that government picks up the tab once these laborers are out of the work force, either from injury or forced retirement. I don't see boomers who got their roof done for cheap opening up their 401ks any time soon to help pay the pensions of the nannies they laid off once their kids were grown.

And no, I do not support the idea of ghosting on an employer, but I do understand why it is more popular than in recent memory.

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02-13-2019 10:05 PM
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LowerCaseG Offline
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Post: #109
RE: Recent trend: Employees "ghosting" on their employers
OK, then I assume you won't be eating at any restaurants either, because most food service establishments in this country have at least a couple of illegals working in the kitchen. Also, your comment on social security and medicaire, while accurate regarding someone getting paid cash under the table, I would estimate about half of illegals are working on fake social security numbers which means they pay in but never take out, so its exactly the opposite.

The article you cited in my opinion takes a lot of leaps and makes a lot of assumptions. That's fine it's not a scientific paper. Places like texas, Florida, Las vegas, the vast majority of the housing is under 25 years old. New houses use cheap materials. When i walk into a new construction house, especially one that is not luxury, but a middle class pre-fab house, it feels like it will blow over in a wind storm. In the northeast I would guess that perhaps 70% of the housing is pre 1930. Old houses are more robust and built to last. Even in a higher end new home, there is very little skill and craftsmanship. Everything is pre-fab. So I personally would attribute the low quality of new middle class housing to the fact that its new rather to some conspiracy about picking up illegals at home depot. BTW, I never see that here in the northeast. NEVER. Although when i go to Home Depot its never at 7 in the morning so I could just be missing it.
02-14-2019 10:09 AM
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Post: #110
RE: Recent trend: Employees "ghosting" on their employers
(02-13-2019 12:18 PM)LowerCaseG Wrote:  snip

Comment #3:
Deepdiver had a good post about the trades. We live in the same general area. There is a ton of work available in the trades and customers will pay a premium for people who speak english and are professional. The narrative that illegal immigrants are stealing your jobs is way off base. Yes, maybe if all you have to offer is manual labor or are otherwise easily replaceable with no skills. Illegals are attractive in the construction trade because they are productive and they actually work. Plenty of illegals with skills are getting paid $25-$35 under the table which is equivalent to $50 on the books because they work hard and get shit done. They are also 100% more reliable than americans. Sorry. Never hear any bullshit excuse from them. When I say skills I mean finish carpentry, rough plumbing and electric. Contrast this with the typical union member.

If you're willing to work, and with a bit of luck, you can score the same situation. Very few people willing to work, however.

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02-14-2019 10:25 AM
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Post: #111
RE: Recent trend: Employees "ghosting" on their employers
(02-14-2019 10:09 AM)LowerCaseG Wrote:  OK, then I assume you won't be eating at any restaurants either, because most food service establishments in this country have at least a couple of illegals working in the kitchen....

I can't change who is already in the restaurants working illegally any more than I can reverse the sexual revolution and eliminate online pornography, but I don't have to like it and pretend it wasn't preventable or act like it's normal. The last thing i deliberately will do is openly support "conservatives" who stand to reap pecuniary and political gain from cheat codes they build into the system while prattling on about how "America is an Ideal." Bull. America is not America because of magic dirt under our feet - culture matters.

Quote:... I would estimate about half of illegals are working on fake social security numbers which means they pay in but never take out....
You should re-estimate, because they can and do collect , even with fake SS numbers. Many of them do this for decades in the blind spot of America while we fuss about pussy hats, misogyny and twerking.

Quote:...New houses use cheap materials. When i walk into a new construction house, especially one that is not luxury, but a middle class pre-fab house it feels like it will blow over in a wind storm. In the northeast I would guess that perhaps 70% of the housing is pre 1930. Old houses are more robust and built to last. Even in a higher end new home, there is very little skill and craftsmanship. Everything is pre-fab....

A more accurate observation would be that old houses that lasted were built to last. You don't see the ones that did not last, since they are no longer here. Plenty of slave shacks on plantations and sharecropper houses in the south didn't stand the test of time, but the mansions did, termites notwithstanding. Real estate agents selling old houses to naive newlyweds gleefully misread this bogus cause and effect connection all the time. Correlation is not causation.

Either way, it took far more skill to do any woodwork or trades before the days of prefabricated trestles, pre-hung doors, zero-clearance box fire places and instant interiors. Even with pre fab materials the amount of re-work is higher than it should be, especially if the crew is led by a fellow Latin American. That part of the article was completely plausible.

Culturally, they just don't listen to each other the same as they do a non-Latino. If you don't believe me, one of them will probably admit this to you, privately. I saw it all the time in military environments where the native Spanish speakers did not gain nearly the level of trust among locals as did a white guy who spoke fluent Spanish.

Quote:"...So I personally would attribute the low quality of new middle class housing to the fact that its new rather to some conspiracy about picking up illegals at home depot. BTW, I never see that here in the northeast. NEVER. Although when i go to Home Depot its never at 7 in the morning so I could just be missing it.

Probably. The HD in Fairfax VA any time before 8AM looks like a Tijuana bus stop. Are you taking bets it isn't happening at all anywhere up there? Better check...

Illegal labor is in the Northeast too and getting worse. Even when not strictly illegal, many of the workers in trades are here on cuckservative sponsored "guest worker" visas. Lawn care pros from Brazil on "student" visas, mason's helpers on expired tourist visas, Guatamalan landscapers, apple orchard workers from central Africa - seen it all up there already. These are not jobs that Americans won't do, they are jobs they won't do in a first world country for third world wages. It goes a bit beyond blaming millennial kids and calling everyone else lazy while you abscond with the benefits of a rigged system that you impudently assist in perpetuating.

Imported cheap labor of any category is catastrophically short sighted, if you give a shit about the country. There are many second and third order effects most advocates and apologists have not stopped to consider. California already reached the tipping point - you might as well bring your passport if you visit.



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02-14-2019 11:48 AM
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Post: #112
RE: Recent trend: Employees "ghosting" on their employers
Well I'll be damned, today someone else unintentionally wrote about cheap Mexican labor and pre-fab, lookalike construction, and not just a blog post, but Bloomberg.

Quote:"Why America’s New Apartment Buildings All Look the Same"

...They can also run to the nearest big-box store to find workers. Stick construction allows builders to use cheaper casual labor rather than often-unionized skilled tradespeople....

According to the article, it's happening in NJ, MA and plenty of other places besides TX. Of course, Bloomberg is careful not to call the "cheaper casual labor" out for what it really is - cuckservative sponsored illegal immigration.

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02-14-2019 06:36 PM
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