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East Asian men in the dating market
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timmyk Offline
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East Asian men in the dating market
I've seen a thread about East Asian under travel category, but I don't know if there's one for dating, so here you go.

A Fairly recent movie, Crazy Rich Asian, received wide media coverage. I am an East Asian myself but haven't seen the movie (probably because I am not Southeast Asian), but I think the wide media coverage of the movie is a good sign that as we, as a society, start to see this issue of Asian underrepresentation, so I figured there's a decent chance this thread can become active with good discussions by the members.

To establish a sence of the accuracy of dicussion, I want this thread to specifically focus on East Asian men in the dating market. I am sure we have other fellow Asians who can start their own threads. I want to start off with this short video clip of a sociology lecture at Penn State:

"Asian Dating Double Standards"

This lecturer academically supports the Roosh's opinion of how East Asian men are at the bottom of the totem pole of male attractiveness. In my opinion, East Asians being ranked at the bottom seem to be true at least in the US.

A lot of people commented on how useless and a waste of time and money the lecture is, and I think it's because the lecturer only spends a lot of time arguing about the importance of discussing the touchy subject but doesn't go into detail as to why. Racial bias in dating is a touchy subject that makes people feel uncomfortable, and the lecturer doesn't really provide a solution or any insight as to why that's happening. From that point of view, I understand why people may think it's useless.

Nevertheless, it does not take a lot of research to find some strong pointers. I believe the biggest reason East Asian men struggle the most is that they are the most underrepresented ethnic group in the US media. As lecturer said, East Asian men never get sexualized or portrayed as a leader in Hollywood films.

The most obvious example is that we are yet to see a single Marvel or DC movie with an Asian hero. An actor like Ken Jeong made into Hollywood. Although being a doctor and all, he gained huge respect from the public, his acting career also exacerbated the negative Asian stereotypes like Asian men are undatable, short, and nerdy. If you don't know who he is, just watch Hangover and you will get my point.

With the growing number of Asain Male White Female (AMWF) couples, one can counterargue that some East Asian men still manage to pull hot non-Asian girls. Just search AMWF, and you will see a lot of YouTube channels of AMWF couples blogging about their dating life. The number of those contents has been growing a lot, and I think it's largely due to the growing popularity of K-pop music and K-drama in Hispanic and European communities.

If you dig in just a little further about those AMWF couples, you can find out about few common things.

1) most of the white girls are exposed to K-pop/k-drama, although the degree of their interest/obsession varies by individual.

2) The majority of those couples met each other while the WF is doing study abroad/work holiday in Asia. (mostly Korea, which is because I am Korean as well)

3) Even the small subset of couples who met each other in non-Asian countries like the US, Europe, etc. the point (1) still holds true for the girls.

These findings basically support my argument that the representation of a race in media significantly influence the attractiveness/desirability of the race by the society and that holds true for the dating market as well. Those Asian men who scored very attractive non-Asian women who are into K-pop exist because the K-media shaped the perception of East Asian men as an attractive figure.

One thing I frequently observe is that those European girls who are fairly attractive by mainstream society's standard, are looked down upon and labeled as yellow fever with some freaky fetish on Asian men.

Just like anything else, I am sure women with yellow fever with some freaky fetish exist and always it's those extreme cases that create stereotypes. But the reality is that I personally have met and dated a handful of attractive non-Asian girls who are capable of having a normal conversation with.

Compared to Europe and Latin America, however, AMWF cases are less common in the US, I think it's mostly because Kpop/kdrama doesn't have as much influence. But it's a pleasant surprise to see Kpop songs making to the Spotify Top hits list occasionally. and they actually don't sound too bad for many American ears.

Going back to the video clip of sociology class, I see a lot of people disagreeing with
the professor's claim that it requires an East Asian dude to earn quarter a million dollars more to equally compete with a white dude, everything else being equal.

Although it was hinted that the number is based on girls' response rate to guys of East Asian vs white ethnicities on dating platforms with varying income status. My guess is that everything else being equal, an East Asian dude can expect the same response rate from girls if he's making a quarter of a million more than the equal white counterpart. Anyway, the lecturer could have elaborated more on how he got the number.

What I get out of that video is that everyone has to work their niche to maximize his result in the dating market, whether it be your outfit style, demeanor, or kpop. White guy's niche turns out to be the majority of the female population, because of their dominant presence in the US media. Of course white male also dominates many other sectors from sports to the job market, but I believe the dominance in the media has the greatest influence in women's perception.

Of course, you can always improve your game, your physique, your career, etc. to reach your max potential, but considering how important the first impression is, and knowing that your looks can take you a long way, is there anything we could do to raise the ceiling for Asians as a whole? How could East Asian dudes overcome this disadvantage in game, in social life? What will it take for us to see our first Asian superhero? What are your thoughts?
(This post was last modified: 02-08-2019 06:16 AM by timmyk.)
02-08-2019 06:13 AM
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jcrew247 Offline
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RE: East Asian men in the dating market
I would think being fluent in English and Catholic would be more important when it comes to dating western women.
02-08-2019 11:07 AM
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Brosemite Offline
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RE: East Asian men in the dating market
(02-08-2019 06:13 AM)timmyk Wrote:  I've seen a thread about East Asian under travel category, but I don't know if there's one for dating, so here you go.

A Fairly recent movie, Crazy Rich Asian, received wide media coverage. I am an East Asian myself but haven't seen the movie (probably because I am not Southeast Asian), but I think the wide media coverage of the movie is a good sign that as we, as a society, start to see this issue of Asian underrepresentation, so I figured there's a decent chance this thread can become active with good discussions by the members.

To establish a sence of the accuracy of dicussion, I want this thread to specifically focus on East Asian men in the dating market. I am sure we have other fellow Asians who can start their own threads. I want to start off with this short video clip of a sociology lecture at Penn State:

"Asian Dating Double Standards"

This lecturer academically supports the Roosh's opinion of how East Asian men are at the bottom of the totem pole of male attractiveness. In my opinion, East Asians being ranked at the bottom seem to be true at least in the US.

A lot of people commented on how useless and a waste of time and money the lecture is, and I think it's because the lecturer only spends a lot of time arguing about the importance of discussing the touchy subject but doesn't go into detail as to why. Racial bias in dating is a touchy subject that makes people feel uncomfortable, and the lecturer doesn't really provide a solution or any insight as to why that's happening. From that point of view, I understand why people may think it's useless.

Nevertheless, it does not take a lot of research to find some strong pointers. I believe the biggest reason East Asian men struggle the most is that they are the most underrepresented ethnic group in the US media. As lecturer said, East Asian men never get sexualized or portrayed as a leader in Hollywood films.

The most obvious example is that we are yet to see a single Marvel or DC movie with an Asian hero. An actor like Ken Jeong made into Hollywood. Although being a doctor and all, he gained huge respect from the public, his acting career also exacerbated the negative Asian stereotypes like Asian men are undatable, short, and nerdy. If you don't know who he is, just watch Hangover and you will get my point.

With the growing number of Asain Male White Female (AMWF) couples, one can counterargue that some East Asian men still manage to pull hot non-Asian girls. Just search AMWF, and you will see a lot of YouTube channels of AMWF couples blogging about their dating life. The number of those contents has been growing a lot, and I think it's largely due to the growing popularity of K-pop music and K-drama in Hispanic and European communities.

If you dig in just a little further about those AMWF couples, you can find out about few common things.

1) most of the white girls are exposed to K-pop/k-drama, although the degree of their interest/obsession varies by individual.

2) The majority of those couples met each other while the WF is doing study abroad/work holiday in Asia. (mostly Korea, which is because I am Korean as well)

3) Even the small subset of couples who met each other in non-Asian countries like the US, Europe, etc. the point (1) still holds true for the girls.

These findings basically support my argument that the representation of a race in media significantly influence the attractiveness/desirability of the race by the society and that holds true for the dating market as well. Those Asian men who scored very attractive non-Asian women who are into K-pop exist because the K-media shaped the perception of East Asian men as an attractive figure.

One thing I frequently observe is that those European girls who are fairly attractive by mainstream society's standard, are looked down upon and labeled as yellow fever with some freaky fetish on Asian men.

Just like anything else, I am sure women with yellow fever with some freaky fetish exist and always it's those extreme cases that create stereotypes. But the reality is that I personally have met and dated a handful of attractive non-Asian girls who are capable of having a normal conversation with.

Compared to Europe and Latin America, however, AMWF cases are less common in the US, I think it's mostly because Kpop/kdrama doesn't have as much influence. But it's a pleasant surprise to see Kpop songs making to the Spotify Top hits list occasionally. and they actually don't sound too bad for many American ears.

Going back to the video clip of sociology class, I see a lot of people disagreeing with
the professor's claim that it requires an East Asian dude to earn quarter a million dollars more to equally compete with a white dude, everything else being equal.

Although it was hinted that the number is based on girls' response rate to guys of East Asian vs white ethnicities on dating platforms with varying income status. My guess is that everything else being equal, an East Asian dude can expect the same response rate from girls if he's making a quarter of a million more than the equal white counterpart. Anyway, the lecturer could have elaborated more on how he got the number.

What I get out of that video is that everyone has to work their niche to maximize his result in the dating market, whether it be your outfit style, demeanor, or kpop. White guy's niche turns out to be the majority of the female population, because of their dominant presence in the US media. Of course white male also dominates many other sectors from sports to the job market, but I believe the dominance in the media has the greatest influence in women's perception.

Of course, you can always improve your game, your physique, your career, etc. to reach your max potential, but considering how important the first impression is, and knowing that your looks can take you a long way, is there anything we could do to raise the ceiling for Asians as a whole? How could East Asian dudes overcome this disadvantage in game, in social life? What will it take for us to see our first Asian superhero? What are your thoughts?

TLDR - In the bolded part, focus on your own results opposed to "raising the ceiling" for the people in your group

yb13
02-08-2019 11:13 AM
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Lunostrelki Offline
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RE: East Asian men in the dating market
If you're an East Asian living overseas, things can seem pretty badly stacked against you. Not only do white women not really like Asian men, but overseas Asian women also ditch Asian men. Some of this is due to natural disadvantage (shorter average height, less dominant aura) and broader prejudice, but not all of it is. I'm partly Asian myself and know a lot of Asian guys who simply don't make an effort to be attractive or interesting. I know this can be overcome because I have full-Chinese cousins who work out a lot, are super confident, and do well with women.

People from northern Asia are taller and stronger, but historically they've also emigrated less. The majority of East Asians living in the US, for instance, are of southern Chinese stock, physically shorter and speaking more effeminate dialects. There's also a Chinese stereotype that the north produces officials, i.e. more extroverted and good at PR, while the south produces businessmen who are more autistically focused on making money. So there may be that to consider as well.
(This post was last modified: 02-08-2019 01:01 PM by Lunostrelki.)
02-08-2019 12:56 PM
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RatInTheWoods Offline
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Post: #5
RE: East Asian men in the dating market
Surely chinese women find chinese men attractive? There is no shortage of chinese women in the west.

You might struggle to date a 5'10 blue eyed blonde goddess, but so does a 6 foot blue eyed blonde dude.

If you are having trouble getting action, you are aiming your sights a few points SMV too high.

And yes, being short and chinese does lower your SMV in the western market, no argument there.
02-08-2019 04:56 PM
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Captain Gh Online
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RE: East Asian men in the dating market
The one thing Asian Men MUST do compete with Women... is Hit the Gym... Period!!! It's good advice overall... but for Asian men... it's almost a Prerequisite due to the perception of Asian Men out there... and the

fact that Asian Women increasingly are giving a Head Start to White Guys! Can't link due to being on Cell... but Squattin Casanova talked about this in length in one of his YouTube Vid. For any short Asian dude, being stocky ( Fit & Wide) + having a social circle is the way to go!
02-08-2019 05:48 PM
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Newguy101 Offline
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RE: East Asian men in the dating market
Never been big on those videos showing amwf videos virtue signalling "look were desirable" it really shows low smv. Its pretty cringe.

Just be the best you and itll follow through. How do non Asian look at those videos. They gonna laugh bro.
Remember a similar video of an indian dude going around asking white girls if they like brown guys. He made himself look pathetic.
I dont see black guys doing this
02-08-2019 06:11 PM
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LexisNexis Offline
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Post: #8
RE: East Asian men in the dating market
2018 was Asian Ascension where I live (Toronto). Out of nowhere I saw a lot of Asian Male-White Female couples out and about. The bottom of the racial totem pole now solely belongs to Indian males.
02-08-2019 06:28 PM
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PixelFree Offline
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RE: East Asian men in the dating market
If I were an East Asian man who grew up in a Western country, I'd go back to my home (or my parents home) country and absolutely kill it.

I have several Asian friends who were born and lived their whole life in Australia. Back in Vietnam, HK, China, Philippines, wherever, when they head home they are treated like a mini-celebrity by the females there. Literally women approaching them on the street and so on without them even needing to open their mouths.

Try not to immediately reject this advice - I know a few guys (both white and Asian) living an amazing life in Thailand, Bali etc running some kind of internet business. Weather, food, women, lifestyle galore.

I should also mention, I don't think it's to do with representation in media - it's just a variety of many factors including cultural differences, religious difference, height and so on. I would say many white women would feel they just wouldn't get along with an Asian man because they are 'too different' (without being able to put a finger on exactly what it is, or if it's even justified at all). Just little things like taking shoes off when entering homes, what is eaten for breakfast, does his parents speak English, does his house smell like fish sauce from cooking smells (like my apartment hallway does - thanks to my Asian neighbour), can he drive well, could I have a deep and meaningful chat with him about XYZ and he would 'get it', what religion are they anyway?, etc.

Not saying these thoughts are justified or 'right', just my honest take on what it is. If you were an Asian guy who was interested in a European woman you'd need to be aware of and overcome all this. You'd need to demonstrate there would be very little cultural incompatibility (assuming you are a fully Westernised man of East Asian origin).

As a side, one could argue the white guy gets represented poorly in media as well, think Homer Simpson, Peter Griffin, most white guys in ads (Gillette), etc. Having said that yes most Western superheros are white guys (just as most Eastern superheroes would be Asian guys in Manga comics).
(This post was last modified: 02-08-2019 06:50 PM by PixelFree.)
02-08-2019 06:34 PM
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RE: East Asian men in the dating market
Pixel, is not being able to drive a car well a turn-off for women????
02-08-2019 08:23 PM
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timmyk Offline
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RE: East Asian men in the dating market
I am starting to see that the questions I raised are something that can only be solved through time and probably a dozen more of next BTS (Kpop boy group). It's just that unlike Black people, who suffered very distinctive persecution in the US history, Asians have been fairly well off in general. And because of that, Asians tend to receive less attention: https://hbr.org/2018/05/asian-americans-...management

Thanks, for all your feedback tho. First time making a post here so I wasn't sure what to expect.
02-08-2019 09:24 PM
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timmyk Offline
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RE: East Asian men in the dating market
(02-08-2019 06:28 PM)LexisNexis Wrote:  2018 was Asian Ascension where I live (Toronto). Out of nowhere I saw a lot of Asian Male-White Female couples out and about. The bottom of the racial totem pole now solely belongs to Indian males.

I agree. I think it's Europe > Canada > the US in terms of the Asian Ascension phenomenon
02-08-2019 09:25 PM
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timmyk Offline
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RE: East Asian men in the dating market
(02-08-2019 04:56 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  Surely chinese women find chinese men attractive? There is no shortage of chinese women in the west.

You might struggle to date a 5'10 blue eyed blonde goddess, but so does a 6 foot blue eyed blonde dude.

If you are having trouble getting action, you are aiming your sights a few points SMV too high.

And yes, being short and chinese does lower your SMV in the western market, no argument there.

My first two gfs were 5' 9 blue eyed blonde. Not sure about them being goddess, but certainly in 6-7 range at least. I'm 5'7. Having lived in the US for a decade now, I am also probably socially conditioned by western standards to prefer non-Asian women. Based on my experience, Asian girls seem to demand more effort and work on my part than non-Asian girls of equal attractiveness. Again this probably varies depending on the region.
(This post was last modified: 02-08-2019 09:39 PM by timmyk.)
02-08-2019 09:34 PM
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RE: East Asian men in the dating market
(02-08-2019 11:07 AM)jcrew247 Wrote:  I would think being fluent in English and Catholic would be more important when it comes to dating western women.

How is being Catholic relevant to SMV?
02-08-2019 09:40 PM
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RE: East Asian men in the dating market
(02-08-2019 09:24 PM)timmyk Wrote:  I am starting to see that the questions I raised are something that can only be solved through time and probably a dozen more of next BTS (Kpop boy group). It's just that unlike Black people, who suffered very distinctive persecution in the US history, Asians have been fairly well off in general. And because of that, Asians tend to receive less attention: https://hbr.org/2018/05/asian-americans-...management

Thanks, for all your feedback tho. First time making a post here so I wasn't sure what to expect.

I think you're missing the point. Girls care alot more about compatibility and communication. It still comes down to being able to speak English fluently and being able to communicate Game to women. I think K-Pop is a start but its a very small niche. You need to cross-over into English-speaking media. More importantly, there are many conservative families in America that want their daughters to marry Catholic men, so that hurts compatibility if someone is a different religion.
02-08-2019 09:41 PM
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RE: East Asian men in the dating market
(02-08-2019 09:40 PM)timmyk Wrote:  
(02-08-2019 11:07 AM)jcrew247 Wrote:  I would think being fluent in English and Catholic would be more important when it comes to dating western women.

How is being Catholic relevant to SMV?

Its more about being assimilated into western culture. I don't think many girls want to marry muslim men either. There are many rural and suburban conservative parents that spend a lot of time growing up in a church, and it helps from a cultural compatibity if the husband shares in that lifestyle. MOst women want their in-laws to get along with there husband and there are many stories of Jewish/Christian couples getting divorced over religious conflicts and disagreements over raising children. Most american-born men understand the conservative culture of the USA, but then there are many foreign-born men that don't understand the conservative culture of the USA.
02-08-2019 09:48 PM
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Brosemite Offline
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RE: East Asian men in the dating market
(02-08-2019 09:25 PM)timmyk Wrote:  
(02-08-2019 06:28 PM)LexisNexis Wrote:  2018 was Asian Ascension where I live (Toronto). Out of nowhere I saw a lot of Asian Male-White Female couples out and about. The bottom of the racial totem pole now solely belongs to Indian males.

I agree. I think it's Europe > Canada > the US in terms of the Asian Ascension phenomenon

Out of curiosity, wherebouts are you based out of in the US?

I'd say Europe is #1 for sure out of sheer diversity & how many major cities in different countries one can plan themselves in. (not every city or country).

For that same reason, I'd have to put the US ahead of the neighbors up north due to less density of FOB Chinese packs scattered throughout the fewer major cities Canada possesses opposed to America packing in a much higher quantity of major metropolitan areas with many being more favorable than certain crap ones such as So Cal.

(02-08-2019 09:24 PM)timmyk Wrote:  I am starting to see that the questions I raised are something that can only be solved through time and probably a dozen more of next BTS (Kpop boy group).

Kpop should not really be a part of the equation since most Anglo raised chicks who dig that genre are fat & have pink hair/odd piercings.

The big issue is certain Asian males in the west expecting Anglo chicks to relate to their culture without really taking the time & effort to communicate with those same chicks on their own native level.

Same shit if you've lived or traveled to different parts of non-Asian countries too.

You're not going to get the best chicks in say Brazil where I lived if you're unwilling to speak to them on their social level (in their own native language as well).

You're also not going to get the best gals in say FSU if you can't relate to those Slavic chicks on their level either.

Sure there might be some Kpop chicks in both countries but they're once again bottom feeders.

(02-08-2019 09:24 PM)timmyk Wrote:  Thanks, for all your feedback tho. First time making a post here so I wasn't sure what to expect.

I appreciate your fortitude in making this first post on the forum; having been a lurker since 2016 as your profile mentions, it's ashame you haven't evolved as a result of all this free advice given by reputable members in the Asian threads.

It's never too late though....

(02-08-2019 09:41 PM)jcrew247 Wrote:  I think you're missing the point. Girls care alot more about compatibility and communication. It still comes down to being able to speak English fluently and being able to communicate Game to women. I think K-Pop is a start but its a very small niche. You need to cross-over into English-speaking media. More importantly, there are many conservative families in America that want their daughters to marry Catholic men, so that hurts compatibility if someone is a different religion.

Took the words right out of my mouth...

(02-08-2019 09:48 PM)jcrew247 Wrote:  Its more about being assimilated into western culture. I don't think many girls want to marry muslim men either. There are many rural and suburban conservative parents that spend a lot of time growing up in a church, and it helps from a cultural compatibity if the husband shares in that lifestyle. MOst women want their in-laws to get along with there husband and there are many stories of Jewish/Christian couples getting divorced over religious conflicts and disagreements over raising children. Most american-born men understand the conservative culture of the USA, but then there are many foreign-born men that don't understand the conservative culture of the USA.

Great point. Once can be fully assimilated into the western country they're living in while simultaneously retaining many positive aspects of their native culture.

As a guy who's half Taiwanese/half Vietnamese who's lived in North Texas for some time, here are my observations:
A) American born Vietnamese males tend to be much better assimilated here in Texas while just being more confident not just dating outside their race but also in the classroom & in professional settings where they tend to take on bigger leadership positions opposed to merely paper pushers. This ability to assimilate well into western culture in turn actually makes non-Asian chicks appreciate the culture of the male's parents more.
B) American born Chinese males in Texas tend to be less assimilated & less open-minded about stepping out of their comfort zones when dealt with the same encounters many Viet or Filipino males are dealt with. More likely to stick inside their bubbles....
C) On the flip side, many Chinese or Taiwanese males that moved here to Texas around say middle school & up work their asses off in "playing catch up" that they successfully learn how to assimilate themselves & develop many positive traits that are valued in western cultures.

^A good example of C actually stems from all the foreign students I met while doing my masters. In order to get the opportunity to study in the US, many of these students were raised to just do well in standardized tests & study relentlessly like robots. I friggin hated doing group presentations & mandatory networking with the community during graduate school, but those activities sped up the personal development & confidence levels of the foreign students (including Chinese) in my program as they were able to "add another layer" to what qualities they already possessed, which in turn gave them the ability to influence those around them on a more positive level.

My question to you is this OP...what steps are you taking to adding more positive layers to your identity?

^Your willingness to put your head down & plow through that is going to make you a much happier person overall as that will put you in a better position to influence those around you much more positively.

Your unwillingness to do that will drag not just yourself down but those around you too.

If you're not going up, you're going down. Your choice....

yb13
(This post was last modified: 02-08-2019 10:44 PM by Brosemite.)
02-08-2019 10:25 PM
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timmyk Offline
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RE: East Asian men in the dating market
(02-08-2019 10:25 PM)Brosemite Wrote:  Out of curiosity, wherebouts are you based out of in the US?

I'd say Europe is #1 for sure out of sheer diversity & how many major cities in different countries one can plan themselves in. (not every city or country).

For that same reason, I'd have to put the US ahead of the neighbors up north due to less density of FOB Chinese packs scattered throughout the fewer major cities Canada possesses opposed to America packing in a much higher quantity of major metropolitan areas with many being more favorable than certain crap ones such as So Cal.
So Cal it is Smile But yea I agree that there are better cities in the US.

(02-08-2019 10:25 PM)Brosemite Wrote:  Kpop should not really be a part of the equation since most Anglo raised chicks who dig that genre are fat & have pink hair/odd piercings.
This kind of bias/stereotypes are what I am actually trying to say. Not a fan of Kpop myself either. You may be right about a good portion of the kpop fans are below 5, but they are not representative of the entire group. My point is that they are not any different than Taylor Swift, Justin Biber, or Kanye's fans. I am sure good portion of those mainstream artist fanbases consist of many below 5s. Matter of fact, probably more than the half of female populations is probably below 5 in our standards. But these unattractive 5s of "mainstream" groups don't end up representing the groups simply because these "mainstream" groups are accepted by society. We simply ignore them bc we also belong to the same groups and we simply don't put our eyes on these unattractive girls. On the other hand, it's easier for us to recognize 5 and below girls in the minority group because we are not part of the group, so our minds dissociate with them and the moment we detach ourselves from those minority, our brains needs to categorize/stereotype them, so it's easier for our brains to keep track of these minorities that are not part of our lives. It's easy for us to stereotype them as unattractive nerdy/freaky, because first, we don't find kpop cool, and second, as outsiders of kpop culture, our brains have the need to categorize them, and what we see often are those with unattractive pink hairs.

The kinds of girls I am talking about is not the kpop western girls with "pink hair/odd piercings," but are the normal western girls (+6), who happen to get exposed to kpop and found it cool. They have normal life, career, and friend groups.
These western girls with high SMV, because the kpop media positively portrayed asian men and conditioned them to have positive impression of Asian, my interaction with them has been much more smooth. My argument is that this experience is basically what white men feels when they interact with normal girls.
PixelFree makes a valid point that this discrepancy involves more factors than just underrepresentation of Asian in media. My argument is that out of those factors, media factor is the most influential one.


(02-08-2019 10:25 PM)Brosemite Wrote:  The big issue is certain Asian males in the west expecting Anglo chicks to relate to their culture without really taking the time & effort to communicate with those same chicks on their own native level.

Same shit if you've lived or traveled to different parts of non-Asian countries too.

You're not going to get the best chicks in say Brazil where I lived if you're unwilling to speak to them on their social level (in their own native language as well).

You're also not going to get the best gals in say FSU if you can't relate to those Slavic chicks on their level either.

Sure there might be some Kpop chicks in both countries but they're once again bottom feeders.

I agree with your point that I can't rely on kpop chicks because they are such a small niche (even more true if I want to find 6+), but my point is that if a normal western girl gets positively exposed to kpop even just a moderate level, that provides enough shift in their view of asian men for me to notice/experience the significant offset of disadvantage as an East Asian. The result is the Asian Ascension that LexusNexus noticed in Canada.


(02-08-2019 09:41 PM)jcrew247 Wrote:  I think you're missing the point. Girls care alot more about compatibility and communication. It still comes down to being able to speak English fluently and being able to communicate Game to women. I think K-Pop is a start but its a very small niche. You need to cross-over into English-speaking media. More importantly, there are many conservative families in America that want their daughters to marry Catholic men, so that hurts compatibility if someone is a different religion.

The discussion I am hoping to have is not about me. By no means I am not an experienced player. My game is still probably below average, which I intend to continue improving but for now I have other strengths to make up for it.

I've had long term relationships with white girls as long as +3yrs, so I doubt compatibility and communication are my weakness. (Matter of fact, probably my strengths) I did have religious conflicts that resulted breakups but the situation I was in was either marriage or breakup. I clearly wasn't marrying at such a young age.

I came to the US in middle school, so I struggle to articulate well at times, but I have close to zero accent. Even though the majority of people assumes I am American because of my English fluency and assimilated mindset, but I always introduce myself as an int'l, cuz that shows that I'm multi-cultural.

My notch may be low, but that's because I prefer "mini relationships" over ons. I have a euro girl who flies to the US every 3-4 months to be with me, even though we're not in a relationship. I hope that gives you some idea of where I am in terms of communication and EQ level.

If there's an aspect of game that I struggle most, that'd be the fact that I have to break the stereotype whenever I interact with very American girls with little exposure to Asian cultures. Sometimes they simply won't give me a chance to show my worth, but I think that's true for any other races. There'll always be girls who won't date certain ethnicity. I'm okay with that.

My SMV is probably not up to the full potential yet, but that's because I intentionally choose to put my energy on other more important matters in my life. But I encounter these racial biases not just in dating. That's why I hoped the discussion to be not limited to dating, but about addressing the bigger issue here.

(02-08-2019 10:25 PM)Brosemite Wrote:  
(02-08-2019 09:48 PM)jcrew247 Wrote:  Its more about being assimilated into western culture. I don't think many girls want to marry muslim men either. There are many rural and suburban conservative parents that spend a lot of time growing up in a church, and it helps from a cultural compatibity if the husband shares in that lifestyle. MOst women want their in-laws to get along with there husband and there are many stories of Jewish/Christian couples getting divorced over religious conflicts and disagreements over raising children. Most american-born men understand the conservative culture of the USA, but then there are many foreign-born men that don't understand the conservative culture of the USA.

Great point. Once can be fully assimilated into the western country they're living in while simultaneously retaining many positive aspects of their native culture.

As a guy who's half Taiwanese/half Vietnamese who's lived in North Texas for some time, here are my observations:
A) American born Vietnamese males tend to be much better assimilated here in Texas while just being more confident not just dating outside their race but also in the classroom & in professional settings where they tend to take on bigger leadership positions opposed to merely paper pushers. This ability to assimilate well into western culture in turn actually makes non-Asian chicks appreciate the culture of the male's parents more.
B) American born Chinese males in Texas tend to be less assimilated & less open-minded about stepping out of their comfort zones when dealt with the same encounters many Viet or Filipino males are dealt with. More likely to stick inside their bubbles....
C) On the flip side, many Chinese or Taiwanese males that moved here to Texas around say middle school & up work their asses off in "playing catch up" that they successfully learn how to assimilate themselves & develop many positive traits that are valued in western cultures.

^A good example of C actually stems from all the foreign students I met while doing my masters. In order to get the opportunity to study in the US, many of these students were raised to just do well in standardized tests & study relentlessly like robots. I friggin hated doing group presentations & mandatory networking with the community during graduate school, but those activities sped up the personal development & confidence levels of the foreign students (including Chinese) in my program as they were able to "add another layer" to what qualities they already possessed, which in turn gave them the ability to influence those around them on a more positive level.

My question to you is this OP...what steps are you taking to adding more positive layers to your identity?

^Your willingness to put your head down & plow through that is going to make you a much happier person overall as that will put you in a better position to influence those around you much more positively.

Your unwillingness to do that will drag not just yourself down but those around you too.

If you're not going up, you're going down. Your choice....

Very well put. Completely agree with all the points you made.
(This post was last modified: 02-09-2019 03:09 AM by timmyk.)
02-09-2019 03:07 AM
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Brosemite Offline
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RE: East Asian men in the dating market
^ At least in Texas, here's what K culture have going for them...and none of them really have anything to do with K Pop
A) Korean Food - It's quite trendy now globally..Dallas has at least 2 big K Towns right now..and then another mini-one. Quite frequented by white folk & latinos.
(Side note) - Wroclaw, Poland had some pretty solid Korean restaurants when I was there...(for Western standards at least)...
B) Korean modern fashion - Korean people tend to dress well in Dallas...and are known for the sleek fitted clothing
C) Technology, TVs, and Gadgets - Everybody loves Samsung phones here as it's "chic" to have one...esp for people that hate Iphones (me included)
D) Automotives - Kias might not be that reliable..but big brother in the family Hyundai possesses more durable cars with nice interiors/exteriors than many Toyota models these days.
E) Genetics - Korean chicks tend to have great genetics..def more consistency across the board than many Chinese gals..though there are some serious Chinese cuties in the 626. Main advantage of Korean genetics actually applies to many Korean males that just squander it here in Texas bc they prefer the comfortable route to be with just Korean chicks when many white chicks are fascinated with the K-Look here.

Heck I've seen fobby AF Viet or Chinese dudes pulling white chicks in random shopping centers or at bars. Even saw a really hot blonde walking her dog with her Asian boyfriend outside of my apt complex earlier.

Take pride in being Asian as there is absolutely nothing wrong in speaking with a non-native English accent. I see white bishes posting shit on Facebook about how there's nothing wrong with a funny English accent bc "it means that individual knows a second language."

If you really want to proudly spread your culture(s) at the end of the day, you'll get a big head start learning how to really communicate with local chicks on their level. Applies anywhere.

yb13
02-09-2019 03:36 AM
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RE: East Asian men in the dating market
(02-08-2019 09:34 PM)timmyk Wrote:  My first two gfs were 5' 9 blue eyed blonde. Not sure about them being goddess, but certainly in 6-7 range at least. I'm 5'7. Having lived in the US for a decade now, I am also probably socially conditioned by western standards to prefer non-Asian women.

Well if you can get attractive western women, why did you start this thread?

Doesn't seem like you are at the bottom of the totem pole of attractiveness?
02-09-2019 03:41 AM
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Post: #21
RE: East Asian men in the dating market
Lol you can tell that professor is the kind of guy who was ruthlessly rejected by white women and had to go to Thailand to find love, now he goes around making these lectures as he needs a group to feel superior to yet at the same time having to deal with the reality that no quality white woman wants him. Father to a future Eliot Rodger...but that being said

Certain races and ethnic groups of men are undesirable to women because as a whole, they embody the very traits that women in that culture are turned off by. You can pinpoint all the statistics, point fingers at Hollywood, and blame racism all you want but the truth of the matter is the very groups that struggle in the dating market are largely full of unsexy men. I know its a gut punch and a lot to take in but it is just the plain old truth.

Your typical girl in the western world wants good looking men in great shape who can bring energy to her life, excite her, and live a life she can secretly envy.

It just so happens that men who come from cultures known for struggling with women are usually:

1. Slaves to their selfish overbearing parents.

2. Usually dry in terms of personality, they don't know how to enjoy life and have fun like a Chad does.

3. Judgmental pricks that look down on things like partying, drinking, and socializing for the fun of it; the very things that your typical hot girl enjoys.

4. Mentally and emotionally weak, needing a shoulder to cry on so they can tell everyone how bad their life is because of their skin color.

These guys are a drag to even the average man who wants to get away from their misery, how can you blame a hot girl who has tons of options to even give them a chance?

Do you think she wants to talk to Chad about the awesome parties he has went to and what he has learned from his travels or a typical ethnic guy about how tough his life is because sexy white girls won't give his skinnyfatass the time of the day?

Certain races and cultures of men do better with women because they are better men, plain and simple.

While Hollywood perception does help, white men are slaying and doing the best because they are the best.

A lot more white men put the work in, take care of themselves, build a lifestyle for slaying, and go above and beyond to ensure they are giving themselves the chance to do well.

Asian men rarely do this, the few I have known who did, they have had absolutely no issues.
02-09-2019 07:38 PM
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RE: East Asian men in the dating market
(02-09-2019 07:38 PM)a beer is enough Wrote:  Do you think she wants to talk to Chad about the awesome parties he has went to and what he has learned from his travels or a typical ethnic guy about how tough his life is because sexy white girls won't give his skinnyfatass the time of the day?

Certain races and cultures of men do better with women because they are better men, plain and simple.

While Hollywood perception does help, white men are slaying and doing the best because they are the best.

A lot more white men put the work in, take care of themselves, build a lifestyle for slaying, and go above and beyond to ensure they are giving themselves the chance to do well.

Asian men rarely do this, the few I have known who did, they have had absolutely no issues.

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with some of the things being said .

Points:
1) Most of my guy friends happen to be white or Latino in Dallas as I know a lot of the fun loving party guys that cannot get laid for the life of them. It's gotten to the point where many of them are at that "soy boy" stage of playing in kickball leagues, drinking craft beer every Saturday Afternoon, and other lousy asexual activities

2) There's something to be said about not going out all the time and being spotted as "a usual." If a gal does see you around often enough or just rarely, it'll spike her interest in you. If that same gal sees you around too often, her curiosity could dissipate.

If you lead the right balanced life where you are doing fun shit yet spending enough productive time alone, that individual will have exponentially more interesting things to talk about when conversing with women bc that healthy relationship with one self will emanate just right in social situations.

If you're partying all the damn time, that could be perceived as insecurity & lack of frame from the opposition not to mention you'll run out of things to converse about.

Then again, individuals that spent too much of their time being introverted typically have nothing to talk about in social situations as well due to not stepping outside their comfortable shell enough as well.

I've been through many stages of these instances in life a I speak from A) my observations, B) my own successes, and C) my own failures

Remember that frame is everything. There's a sales expression that goes like "first one to speak loses...." Applies to game as well.

3) I know a lot of taller Chad type guys in Dallas with little frame as they're dating way down in their miserable relationships or marriages with fat Indian, white, or Latinas.

It has nothing to do with their race or anything like that but moreso correlated with how many western men in general have become such emasculated cucks these days

yb13
(This post was last modified: 02-09-2019 08:48 PM by Brosemite.)
02-09-2019 08:43 PM
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Post: #23
RE: East Asian men in the dating market
The biggest problem for Asian males is simply the culture. A lot of Asian parents think the most important thing for their kids, above all else, is good grades and thus it contributes to a lot of Asian teens knowing nothing about girls and being super awkward when they meet them. Lots of awkward Asians -> bad experiences from female perspective -> cultural stigma that Asians are undateable.

How to fix this? There's nothing you yourself can do personally to change an entire culture's perception, asides from becoming some famous celebrity. Good thing is that universal standards for males generally remains the same so being well groomed, tall, witty, wealthy, etc. will allow you to slay women regardless of your race.

The thing about Asian women ditching Asian men is overstated. If anything, if you're specifically interested in Asians, being Asian is actually a good thing in this regard as there are many Asian women who specifically don't date non-Asians. Where it hurts is with girls of other races. It's hard pulling the hottest white chicks as an Asian guy. I've seen plenty of Asian guys with white girl 5s/6s/7s, but never with the truly knockout 8s or 9s.
02-11-2019 06:32 PM
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RE: East Asian men in the dating market
I never realised that I needed the media approval, or to make over 250K a year MORE than a white guy (so perhaps $350K+ a year) like some sad geeks said on the Internet, just so I can date white girls. Damn, all of my white girl bangs have not been officially approved.

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02-11-2019 10:36 PM
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Post: #25
RE: East Asian men in the dating market
Yeah, you can't be paranoid about the negative stereotypes perpetuated by other nerdy asians. There's jsut a lot of asian-americans and asian immigrants that are just too nerdy and anti-social that turn-off white women. The media may help improve the image, but there's still going to be lots of nerdy asians at your college or high school that white women would not want to date.

The only thing you should worry about is yourself and your social group and creating a positive image, developing strong communication skills, and working on your fitness and appearance. The money thing doesn't even really matter unless you want to attract gold-diggers and buy flashy cars to attract women. Unless you want to be a beta-doctor or beta-engineer, the high salaries are a byproduct of a college degree, not from marrying a white woman. Nobody is criticizing jewish men for making a lot of money. Money makes up if you are not fluent in english and are not catholic. The reason asian men are considered lowest on the totem pole is because they don't speak english and are not catholic. A catholic woman is statistically going to prefer to marry a catholic man first, unless she lives in an area with no other catholics.
02-11-2019 11:10 PM
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