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The Complete 2019 Lviv Datasheet
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ArloDash Offline
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The Complete 2019 Lviv Datasheet
The Complete 2019 Lviv Datasheet

After an extended stay of over a year in Lviv, I present to you virtually everything I can say about the town.

This site has helped me so much over the years, so I wanted to give back in the best way possible: by sharing my experiences.

BACKGROUND:


Lviv is not exactly the type of place that many Western guys are keen on visiting.

It is a smaller, second-tier town in Ukraine that lacks the big-city feel of Kyiv and the beachfront benefits of Odessa. It is home to just under 750,000, many of whom live on the outskirts of a rather small city center. The primary spoken language is Ukrainian, not Russian. While nearly every single person here speaks both languages, they speak Ukrainian in daily life. I speak neither fluently, but a small amount of Ukrainian after spending so much time here.

The town has been under control of various regimes over the years. Historically under Austrian, Polish, German and Soviet rule, the city has been home to a great deal of history. A recognized UNESCO World Heritage Site, much of Lviv is home to stunning architecture. During WWII, Hitler liked Lviv’s architecture so much that he specifically ordered no bombing to take place as he wanted it for the German people. I didn't think I could give a damn about architecture, and even I was fascinated by the aesthetics here.

Often referred to as the cultural capital of Ukraine, much of the city center feels more like Paris or Vienna than what you would expect Ukraine to be like. Of course, a short walk down many of the town’s side streets and you are quickly reminded you are in the Former Soviet Union.

VISA SITUATION:

Americans can only stay here for three months out of every six months. While you used to be able to overstay your visa, I’ve met people who have been banned from Ukraine for an entire year for doing this. Border runs are also a thing of the past, supposedly. While you can break the law here, I don’t suggest it, as it would be pretty terrible to get banned from a place like this.

I have a contact who specializes in setting people up with temporary residence permits. Setup fees are around $1500. I did this, and it’s allowed me to stay as long as I’ve wanted.

You can DM me if you want more information about that.

COSTS:

Lviv is one of the cheapest cities in Europe right now. According to Numbeo, it is 404 out of the 441 surveyed areas regarding total cost of living.

I regularly meet people traveling from other places in Eastern Europe, South America, and even Asia and they all say that this is the cheapest place they have ever seen, one guy even claiming more than Thailand/Vietnam.

For perspective, one beer is typically 30 hryvnia ($1) (pronounced GRIEVNA). A cocktail at an upscale nightclub or lounge should run you no more than 130 hryvnias, TOPS ($5). Schwarma on the street can be purchased for 50 hryvnias ($2). A 20GB cell phone data plan with LifeCell is 100 UAH each month ($4). My apartment costs $370 a month, plus bills which are no more than $35, $60 in the winter time.

They don’t take dollars. Get an international checking account and withdraw money at the ATMs.

If you haven’t already noticed, come here with even a meager online salary, and you’re golden. The local people typically make about $400-$600 a month and seem to live just fine on it.

A fancy dinner for two (two appetizers, entrees and drinks) should run right in the neighborhood of 1000 hryvnias (about $45). Mid-range restaurants are even less.

Here are a few tales to show you just how cheap Lviv is…

After a night of drinking, four friends and I once played “credit card roulette” to see who would be picking up the bill after eating at a Georgian restaurant. Mine was chosen, and I was stuck footing the bill…for 875 UAH (about $30).

That’s four entrees, two appetizers, two beers, four bottles of mineral water for $30.

I was not even upset. I happily paid.

I once went to a strip club with two friends, a slight rarity for me. We went in. We were there for 3 hours, drank pretty endlessly, kept ordering lap dances, the whole shebang. Well well, my friend’s wallet ended up getting lost that night, and I was left footing the bill. I was honestly scared, having heard horror stories of strip clubs ripping off tourists.

It was $150 in total. Crazy.

All in all, I live comfortably for about $1200 a month.

HOUSING:

Fun fact: Virtually everyone here “owns” an apartment, as during Soviet times people were eligible to continuously reapply for additional apartments every few years. It’s not unusual to meet people who own three properties that have been in their families for decades.

If you’re into the finer things, I once toured a three-floor luxury apartment here that would have cost me all of $750 a month. I’m not hesitating when I say it was one of the most beautiful apartments I have ever seen. Mind you; these are prices I obtained by having Ukrainian speaking friends look around for me, not through Airbnb.

Should you choose to live outside of the City Center, you can find similar places for maybe $200 less.

Airbnb is a horrible deal, but looking for an apartment here is fucking difficult for the long haul. There is a whole industry of “real estate agents,” who are people whose job it is to connect people who own properties with people looking to rent. It is an antiquated model of doing business, and they typically as for at least 50% of one month’s rent as their little token for finding you the place. This makes popping in and out of Lviv at your leisure somewhat hard.

If you want to stay for six months, dropping half of a month’s rent as a finders fee isn’t too bad, and will still save money and get you a nicer place compared to Airbnb.

For less than a few months, Airbnb is still the best way to find a quick apartment, but attempt to negotiate the price with the owner and get them to switch to you paying them in cash, outside of the website of the website after a month’s stay. They will still overcharge you compared to a local, but that's okay for a short term stay.

You can always try OLX.UA, the Ukrainian craigslist, for longer-term arrangements, though you will find plenty of bait and switch schemes, real estate agents who want your money, and legitimate places all in one. Proceed with caution.

As they say, it’s Ukraine.

LOGISTICS:

Lviv is extremely small, so there is no metro. There are the standard, soviet Marshrutka's (small busses) that you can take and a streetcar as well for something like 5 UAH. Unfortunately, using these typically requires telling the driver where you are going and paying the fee.

For someone who does not speak the language, I do not even bother, and I take Uber if I need to. Local taxies are a racket, and they will gladly overcharge you if you can even communicate with them. Avoid taking them unless you are with locals. Use Uber. It’s very popular.

In typical Ukrainian style, walking is the norm here.

The girls love it.

WOMEN, PART 1:

Lviv epitomizes what Roosh refers to as “second tier Ukraine.”

Half of the girls speak English, the other speak Ukrainian and Russian. This will be your biggest deterrent towards meeting women.

They are not always receptive to standard American game, meaning puns, sarcasm and humor. Read Bang Ukraine to find out more.

I would say the average “cute” girl here is a hard 7, soft 8. The talent is better in Kyiv, looks wise. You will regularly see girls who are married by 22 with children, pushing a stroller down the street and still looking damn fine. Long hair, slender bodies, makeup, and impeccable style are standard.

It is not at all uncommon to find girls as old as 21 that are virgins, 28-year-olds who have been with one man ever (so they claim), and women who expect you to take control as the man so they can comfortably fall into your frame and be led. If I wanted a wife, I’d probably look here. I kid you not.

After hearing the doom and gloom talks about cultural degeneracy all the time and it being impossible to find inexperienced, virginal girls, I can't help but laugh. It just seems ridiculous to me when a place like this exists. I encounter girls like this all the time. Granted, they don't stay like this for more than a few years. Get them young.

For perspective: I was here for 3 hours when I cold approached a girl in the city center, using the “do you speak English” line. I told her I was looking for a specific street, shifted the conversation into how I’m traveling and was wondering if she would like to show me around the town. After a series of dates, she became my 19-year-old girlfriend who had no experience with men whatsoever. What followed was a relationship where she cooked for me (albeit not well at first, I had to show her how), cleaned my house and did whatever else I asked her. A truly loving, kind, appreciative girl who did her best to make me happy.

I met her in a few hours of roaming the streets. Go approach! Daygame is the move here.

ONS is not typical in Lviv, but possible if your game is super tight. I hate to break it to everyone who is looking to come here for a week and clean up, but my first trip of four days yielded me little more than a few makeouts. On top of that, they have a deep dislike of the Turkish people and people who look Arabic. As a black guy, I wouldn’t try coming here either as racism is an everyday occurrence, though there is a small African community.

Girls expect to be taken on dates. The three date rule that Roosh outlines in Bang Ukraine is typically the way it goes when meeting slightly more “liberated” girls, but don't be put off if it takes a few more! Do the work. It's a traditional town.

It can be fun, too. I find it comically strange that many of the girls I meet just don’t seem to be getting much attention from men, and when I take them out for drinks, invite them to my house to cook, or even go for a walk around the town, it is like they are relishing in some crazy new experience.

Being a Westerner who has the resources to take a girl out even on modest dates puts you in a higher category than many of the local guys. Then again, Ukrainian guys can be very well dressed, smooth, and skillful with girls. Lots of guys that I have met here have an innate game that many Americans do not.

Bang Ukraine outlines the general MO of Ukrainian girls and how to talk to them. While I would disagree with the book in saying that Lviv is not as extractive and harsh as the rest of the country, it's chock full of useful info despite being a few years old now.

I watch American dudes roll up to Lviv occasionally, wearing beat-up trainers and t-shirts thinking they’re gonna kill it. One guy even had a fedora.

Of course, they got smoked and left with the idea that “Ukrainian girls are bitches.”

As they say, if you can’t take the heat, get out of the kitchen. Bring your a-game here.

WOMEN, PART 2:

While many people are decrying the “fall” of Eastern Europe in recent years with the popularity of the smartphone, let me tell you that it is still 100% better in Lviv than in the United States. Feminism is a foreign term to most Lviv girls. Although many women here aspire to have a career (where they make low $500 a month), most women want to have a family and assume traditional gender roles.

On the same token, you certainly have your sluts, gold diggers, and other nefarious personality types. I have watched my friends get played by the short skirt, cleavage sporting, flirtatious euro sluts who use them as a wallet and source of novelty while they continue with their romances with the local guys. If you’re a lousy judge of character, you could get taken for a ride here pretty quickly.

Having a few chicks on rotation in Lviv is not easy, but it is doable. You have to get into the habit of going on lots of dates. Again, Bang Ukraine outlines some ideas here. What is most challenging about this, however, is the size of Lviv. The town is small enough that you could very well run into one of your plates, or even one of her friends while out with another.

Regardless, you’re running risks when dating multiple girls anywhere. I'd say go for it anyways.

VENUES / NIGHTLIFE:

This isn’t much of a “going out” type of town. The best thing you can do for approaching at night is doing a rotation between the main square, a few of the bars that are close by, and then hit a club if you want to. The town is small enough to walk between all four.

It is also worth knowing that there is not much of a typical “bar scene” here, as Ukrainian people prefer to sit at a table with friends while drinking. This can make socializing a bit harder in these places.

I’d say Lviv not so great if you're a party person, but here’s a list of some spots worth knowing about.

Google these, as I’m not going to hyperlink for you. Do some research!

NIGHTCLUBS:

1. Malevich - This is the best night club in all of Western Ukraine. It directly rivals what I’ve seen in major cities. Recently built, absolutely gigantic, state of the art sound, lighting, etc. DJs play hype-y, mainstream Electronic Music. For a typical club experience, you won’t go wrong. The talent here is STUNNING, better than what I’ve seen in Vegas even. I’m sure some of them are prostitutes (semi and pro), but this is where all of the younger girls are going now. I believe it is open most nights of the week with a decent enough crowd. Go here.

2. Fashion Club - This used to be the spot in Lviv, but not anymore. It certainly attracts some decent crowds, is centrally located next to Rynok Square, and sports some decent talent. The room is physically much smaller than Malevich, and there is a big outdoor terrace where approaching is possible away from the music. Worth checking out on the weekends.

3. Rafinad - This place is shit. Tacky, Turkish space located in a decorated basement. I have seen guys pull from here though, so it would be worth a look, but don’t expect to enjoy yourself. Clubs like this often pay “models” to hang out there and be receptive to approaches.

4, Metro - Pretty shit club, awful music, but very possible to pull from here. Very Turkish, but I've met some stunners on the terrace.

5. Picasso - Similar to Metro. Proceed with caution, not that great. Often student parties go here.

Side note: There are great pop up raves, rooftop parties, and other genuinely cool events in Lviv thrown by independent party promoters. Check Resident Advisor, Facebook and Google for these. It is very much a nice, slightly-hipster scene. This is the jet-setting, international crowd in Lviv, many of who speak English.

BARS:

1. The Drunk Cherry: Probably the first place you should visit in Lviv. They serve a homemade cherry liquor they make on site. Right on the main square, everyone stands around outside drinking. Solid place to mix and mingle, everyone stops here.

2. Pravda Beer Theater: Decent hangout for starting the night, a giant building with a brewery inside.

3. Rest Bar 13: Small bar near the square, underground. Somewhat of a hipster vibe, good cocktails, worth popping in. I've met a few girls in the smoking room.

4. Masoch Cafe: A BDSM themed bar. Weird, right? Mostly touristy, and if you go there, you could very well get chosen to be tortured by a waitress, who will take your shirt off, whip you, and pour hot candle wax on you while everyone watches. You have been warned.

5. Choven: Beer pub. Big hangout on Saturday nights.

6. Jäger Bar: A bar that has seemingly jacked the Jagermeister name. Craft cocktails, lovely scenery, decent food. Good for dates.

8. The Room Wine Bar: One of the coolest, most hipster spots in town. Decent cocktails, but all the girls love coming here because of the “vibe.” It is tiny, tiny, but a good place for dates.

9. Bar 44: Another craft cocktail spot that’s good for dates and right on the square.

COFFEE SHOPS:

The best one is Svit Kavy on Rynok Square. You can even run a little bit of game here and meet girls. The mayor of the town is often here, as are the city's power players.

Lviv Coffee Manufacture is also worth checking out, but more for going to do work.

BANYA:

GO TO A BANYA WHILE HERE!

Banya’s are open 24/7, and you can rent an entire private sauna for about $10 an hour. A great move if you’re tired of going drinking and you want to relax. I do this with my friends regularly. You can even bring girls, but most Lviv girls wouldn’t dare to go to one as the prevailing idea is that only prostitutes go to banya with men.

Banya Fortuna is my favorite one, some of the other ones can be pretty shitty. You have to have a Ukrainian person call and speak to them to set up the appointment usually.

RESOURCES:

http://www.OLX.UA - The Ukrainian craigslist. You can buy most things on here you may need and find apartments. Again, the language barrier may or may not be a problem for you.

There are expat groups in Lviv that meet regularly if you want people to talk to. Use Facebook to find them. Few cool folks, not an overwhelmingly great scene.

ADDITIONAL INFO:

You can get the best haircut of your life at Fat Tony’s Barbershop in the town center for 400UAH (about $17). I’m not joking. It’s incredible. Beard trim, Italian products, and a shave for this price for a one-hour appointment. Book an appointment with the head barber at their website. They speak enough English, and show them a picture of what you want.

Dental dare in Lviv is also extremely good and dirt cheap. I had two veneers repaired here for $150 at Rikota Clinic. Incredible work.

Olympus Premium is an extremely affordable gym for $15 a month that’s near Rynok Square. Eurosport is another that is $60, but extremely nice inside.

Kings Cross Leopolis and Victoria Gardens are two malls near the city that you can take Uber to for buying clothes, and running game if that is your style. They're located in the middle of nowhere, though.

Victoria Gardens has a nice Ramen restaurant and a video arcade that is mostly for kids...but can be a cute date spot if your girl is playful like that.

SHOULD YOU GO:

As I said before, Lviv is the cheapest town in Europe. It’s right on par with Pakistan and India price wise, minus higher rents for tourists. You get to live in one of the most architecturally beautiful places for a ridiculously low price, eat excellent food, and take in all the town has to offer for less than $1200 month. Uber rides are $2-4 usually. Budget airlines have just moved in, so the rest of Europe is just a plane ride away.

The problem is, the town doesn’t offer that much beyond this. How many times can you do the typical nightlife rotation here before getting bored? The expat scene is tiny, so making friends can be hard. Half the population speaks English, and the other half insists on speaking Ukrainian. Learning Russian is possible, but most people will not want to talk it with you. This leaves the option of learning Ukrainian, which is not a great expenditure of your time, in my opinion.

CONCLUSION:

Personally, Lviv was perfect for me. I needed to step back from all the partying I had done for years prior, work on building up my finances, work on my body, and understand what it’s like to live in a traditional culture with regular people who have not been destroyed by Westernization.

When I first arrived…I had some severe scars from being in bad relationships, abusing my body with rampant drug and alcohol use, and finances that had been decimated from living in major cities in Western Europe. I was thoroughly mixed up at this point in my life, and seriously at risk for going downhill fast.

Since then, I paid off my student loans and built up a nice cushion of emergency money. I gained 30 pounds (mostly muscle) thanks to inexpensive proteins and lots of free time to hit the gym. Illegal drugs aren’t as common here minus weed, so I nipped most of my bad habits in the bud right then and there.

And of course, I met a great lady who has been the best girl I’ve ever dated in my life. She showed me how a genuine relationship is supposed to be. Lviv forever has an exceptional place in my heart.

Today, I emerge as a new person. Everyone who knows me when I first came here tells me I’m unrecognizable today from how I was then. I can thank this town for that.

In the end, I’ve found that where you live should directly tie into what exactly it is you are doing in life. For this reason, I’m parting ways with Lviv for now, as it is not serving my mission in the same way it was last year with getting my life back on track. This is sad, but all things must come to an end.

That is not to say I will never come back. In the back of my mind, I know I can always come back here, and feel right at home.

For someone looking to lay low for a bit, run some game, and devote some time to self-development, Lviv is genuinely a great town. A five-star lifestyle is possible for a two-star price.

Lviv healed me, and I hope some of you go on to have a special relationship with it as I have.
(This post was last modified: 02-23-2019 06:38 AM by ArloDash.)
02-23-2019 06:30 AM
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RE: The Complete 2019 Lviv Datasheet
Good write up.

As someone who has been to Lvov many times over the years, many of your thoughts about the place resonate with my own.

Yes Lvov is a good city and arguably the most comfortable in which to live in Ukraine. The city has taken a swandive for foreign men in recent times since the locals gained free travel to most of EU, many of the women I knew from years ago are living in Poland or elsewhere in Europe. In addition the Ryanair crowd have turned up, with economic problems in Europe people are looking for cost effective places in which to holiday.

I would disagree it's a good place for wife/ltr though, my reasons are;

1. Finding women over 21 and under 30 is very difficult, many of them are already married, left for Kiev, or left the country altogether. So you would have to wonder why any girl with value would live in the city.

2. Many are nationalistic, religious, and don't like foreigners. You may not notice the latter at first as Ukrainians are good at subduing their emotions. The situation is much better in Kiev and Odessa as they are more cosmopolitan cities.

3. They're religious, as you say many Virgins in their 20's or older waiting for a guy on a white horse to make a woman out of her.

4. They have a very haughty attitude, they think they are superior to everywhere else in Ukraine and consider Lvov the "real Ukraine" despite it actually being a Polish city largely comprised of village peasants.

5. Physical attractiveness is arguable the lowest in Ukraine, lots of girls with pale skin, acne, and few of them partake in physical exercise, they can still be slim when they are young but that's not going to last for long.

6. There are few professional women in Lvov as work opportunities are few and far between, basically either IT or Tourism, tourism doesn't yield much money, and the IT girls are often the ones you don't want, you can find them in Choven with their male work colleagues drinking craft beer. Lawyers are better, but not many of them.

Often the best girls that you meet in Lvov are not from Lvov, any decent local women have already been cherry-picked. You will find Ukrainian girls from other areas of the country are much more open. There are other cities in Western Ukraine where the girls have a way better attitude; Chernovcy, Ivano Frankovsk, Rovne etc.

If I'm in Kiev and I meet a girl from Lvov I won't even waste my time talking to her.

Quote:For this reason, I’m parting ways with Lviv for now, as it is not serving my mission in the same way it was last year with getting my life back on track. This is sad, but all things must come to an end.

I've had great times in the city also, but understand you, it's not really a place for ambitious expats, it's a lazy little city where you can find yourself burning time walking around drinking coffees, gorging on food and alcohol. I think it's always a nice place to visit, but for me it's not dynamic enough.

Agreed that daygame is the way forward, try and meet girls from other parts of Ukraine in Lvov looking for a good time.
(This post was last modified: 02-23-2019 07:37 AM by BangBoy123.)
02-23-2019 07:36 AM
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RE: The Complete 2019 Lviv Datasheet
(02-23-2019 07:36 AM)BangBoy123 Wrote:  Good write up.

As someone who has been to Lvov many times over the years, many of your thoughts about the place resonate with my own.

Yes Lvov is a good city and arguably the most comfortable in which to live in Ukraine. The city has taken a swandive for foreign men in recent times since the locals gained free travel to most of EU, many of the women I knew from years ago are living in Poland or elsewhere in Europe. In addition the Ryanair crowd have turned up, with economic problems in Europe people are looking for cost effective places in which to holiday.

I would disagree it's a good place for wife/ltr though, my reasons are;

1. Finding women over 21 and under 30 is very difficult, many of them are already married, left for Kiev, or left the country altogether. So you would have to wonder why any girl with value would live in the city.

2. Many are nationalistic, religious, and don't like foreigners. You may not notice the latter at first as Ukrainians are good at subduing their emotions. The situation is much better in Kiev and Odessa as they are more cosmopolitan cities.

3. They're religious, as you say many Virgins in their 20's or older waiting for a guy on a white horse to make a woman out of her.

4. They have a very haughty attitude, they think they are superior to everywhere else in Ukraine and consider Lvov the "real Ukraine" despite it actually being a Polish city largely comprised of village peasants.

5. Physical attractiveness is arguable the lowest in Ukraine, lots of girls with pale skin, acne, and few of them partake in physical exercise, they can still be slim when they are young but that's not going to last for long.

6. There are few professional women in Lvov as work opportunities are few and far between, basically either IT or Tourism, tourism doesn't yield much money, and the IT girls are often the ones you don't want, you can find them in Choven with their male work colleagues drinking craft beer. Lawyers are better, but not many of them.

Often the best girls that you meet in Lvov are not from Lvov, any decent local women have already been cherry-picked. You will find Ukrainian girls from other areas of the country are much more open. There are other cities in Western Ukraine where the girls have a way better attitude; Chernovcy, Ivano Frankovsk, Rovne etc.

If I'm in Kiev and I meet a girl from Lvov I won't even waste my time talking to her.

Quote:For this reason, I’m parting ways with Lviv for now, as it is not serving my mission in the same way it was last year with getting my life back on track. This is sad, but all things must come to an end.

I've had great times in the city also, but understand you, it's not really a place for ambitious expats, it's a lazy little city where you can find yourself burning time walking around drinking coffees, gorging on food and alcohol. I think it's always a nice place to visit, but for me it's not dynamic enough.

Agreed that daygame is the way forward, try and meet girls from other parts of Ukraine in Lvov looking for a good time.

All great points. I will say, I don't have a big problem with tourists here to be fair. It's not where near as bad as lots of other EE destinations.

Though, I will say I still meet plenty of girls in university here, often studying law or dentistry, as you mentioned. Considering this, I guess you could say a lot of the girls I've met in Lviv have been from outside of there, but are just studying in the town for university. Agreed on lawyers, my god, some smoke shows there.

Lastly, you are correct regarding the haughty attitude. The city's architecture was largely built when it was a place of mobility, and communism allowed it all to be redistributed to the common people. Many guys discuss this.

In either case, it's great to see someone has had a similar experience to me.

It is certainly not much of an ambitious place at all. I'm heading to Belgrade next week.
02-23-2019 07:43 AM
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RE: The Complete 2019 Lviv Datasheet
We also have to remember that women largely outnumber men in Ukraine by far, so I don't see it being that hard to find someone really decent there. Every guy I know who comes here ends up with a pretty decent girlfriend, usually better than what they would pull at home.

If anything, I know a fair few number of women who are lonely because they actually can not find a man. This keeps my girl on her toes, because there are really lots of options here. Decent girls too, but my main is better.
02-23-2019 07:49 AM
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BangBoy123 Away
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RE: The Complete 2019 Lviv Datasheet
(02-23-2019 07:49 AM)ArloDash Wrote:  We also have to remember that women largely outnumber men in Ukraine by far, so I don't see it being that hard to find someone really decent there. Every guy I know who comes here ends up with a pretty decent girlfriend, usually better than what they would pull at home.

If anything, I know a fair few number of women who are lonely because they actually can not find a man. This keeps my girl on her toes, because there are really lots of options here. Decent girls too, but my main is better.

Although women outnumber the men by far, in the age group up to 30 it's about the same. The reason there are statistically a lot more women is because on average men die 10 years younger than the women.

My experience has been a bit different, I have known guys to pluck decent girls from Ukraine, but usually the relationship goes awry - cultural differences. From all the foreigners I have met in Ukraine in my time there I can only think of two that are in successful relationships with girls I would consider hot.

I think a guy could upgrade a bit in Ukraine with regard to looks, but everything else i'm not so sure, there needs to be some practicalities in relationships also.

A lot of people rate Ukrainian as perfect wife material as they are feminine, domesticated, attractive etc, but I see cultural differences as the main problem, they often prefer to be with their own, which is quite frustrating when you see their chosen man is clearly a numbskull.

Nevertheless, Ukraine has some kind of gravitational pull, once you leave the country it's difficult to pull away completely
(This post was last modified: 02-23-2019 08:16 AM by BangBoy123.)
02-23-2019 08:14 AM
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RE: The Complete 2019 Lviv Datasheet
That's interesting, what do you mean by cultural differences exactly?

I had a much harder time with those in the Caucuses.
02-23-2019 08:16 AM
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Post: #7
RE: The Complete 2019 Lviv Datasheet
(02-23-2019 08:16 AM)ArloDash Wrote:  That's interesting, what do you mean by cultural differences exactly?

I had a much harder time with those in the Caucuses.

Well, I speak as a Western European, the first obstacle is language of course, her English needs to be at a decent level otherwise it's frustrating for her as she's unable to express herself fully. Also it takes a lot of work to get your Russian up to a meaningful standard.

If you export your Ukrainian girl to another country, it can be difficult for them to assimilate into the local culture, she could well end up a single mother with no friends, watching TV all day and you'll see the metamorphosis from hotty to Babushka unfold in front of your eyes.

There are many other cultural differences that Westerners go through when dating Ukrainians, there's not much you have in common with a feminine Ukraine woman, the goal of many of them is to have babies, whereas in other parts of Europe women have their own jobs, are more independent, and have more to talk about. I think in that respect you will find Belgrade refreshing.
02-23-2019 08:23 AM
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ArloDash Offline
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Post: #8
RE: The Complete 2019 Lviv Datasheet
(02-23-2019 08:23 AM)BangBoy123 Wrote:  
(02-23-2019 08:16 AM)ArloDash Wrote:  That's interesting, what do you mean by cultural differences exactly?

I had a much harder time with those in the Caucuses.

Well, I speak as a Western European, the first obstacle is language of course, her English needs to be at a decent level otherwise it's frustrating for her as she's unable to express herself fully. Also it takes a lot of work to get your Russian up to a meaningful standard.

If you export your Ukrainian girl to another country, it can be difficult for them to assimilate into the local culture, she could well end up a single mother with no friends, watching TV all day and you'll see the metamorphosis from hotty to Babushka unfold in front of your eyes.

There are many other cultural differences that Westerners go through when dating Ukrainians, there's not much you have in common with a feminine Ukraine woman, the goal of many of them is to have babies, whereas in other parts of Europe women have their own jobs, are more independent, and have more to talk about. I think in that respect you will find Belgrade refreshing.

Could see that as well. I have no plans of ever bringing a girl from UA to the West, though.

Not much in terms of similarities can be true. I will say the girls I meet here are some of the least ambitious people I know, which does not impact me directly, but even encouraging one of them to get a CV and cover letter together for internships has been a chore, lol.
02-23-2019 08:35 AM
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BroodingSea Offline
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RE: The Complete 2019 Lviv Datasheet
Excellent post. But the chord running through all the advice is the same. Don't overreach. Treat it as an adventure. It will never be real life, in the sense as we know it. An adventure and an experience. Something real life, rarely is.
(This post was last modified: 02-23-2019 08:40 AM by BroodingSea.)
02-23-2019 08:40 AM
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RE: The Complete 2019 Lviv Datasheet
(02-23-2019 08:40 AM)BroodingSea Wrote:  Excellent post. But the chord running through all the advice is the same. Don't overreach. Treat it as an adventure. It will never be real life, in the sense as we know it. An adventure and an experience. Something real life, rarely is.

What do you mean mate?
02-23-2019 08:49 AM
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diego69 Offline
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RE: The Complete 2019 Lviv Datasheet
Great report @ArloDash +1.
As I am focused on LTR those days, and 19 yo cute virgin sounds very interesting option, may I ask: you mention day game- but can you describe the full process, dates etc. of how yo get into relationship? what is the age difference between you? and also how did you maintain her for long term?
I can pull in some cases those ages but its normally the promicoious club type girls and after a night of drinking, and it will be ONS (or maybe 1-2 times more) and I wont be able to maintain them for LTR.
(This post was last modified: 03-21-2019 11:39 AM by diego69.)
03-21-2019 11:34 AM
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RE: The Complete 2019 Lviv Datasheet
(03-21-2019 11:34 AM)diego69 Wrote:  Great report @ArloDash +1.
As I am focused on LTR those days, and 19 yo cute virgin sounds very interesting option, may I ask: you mention day game- but can describe the full process, dates etc. of how yo get into relationship? what is the age difference between you? and also how did you maintain her for long term?
I can pull in some cases those ages but its normally the promicoious club type girls and after a night of drinking, and it will be ONS (or maybe 1-2 times more) and I wont be able to maintain them for LTR.

Lviv is a student town, so you get lots of girls who come from the villages. You also have the born and raised Lviv girls too. Regardless, it's a small town. This influences your game strategy.

Day game is simple. Approach and ask if they speak English. Drop bait that you're visiting from abroad and are interested in seeing the town. Ask her if she's from the town, show a little interest. You may deal with the cold, standoffish Ukrainian girl vibe (which is completely okay, this is a good thing really, she's suspicious of you as she should be). If so, keep talking. Bang Ukraine goes into great depth about how to converse with them. Most of the time, sarcasm isn't understood and the conversations have to be basic.

You might also get the warmer, more Polish vibe as Lviv is right on the border. If you do, good on you. I did.

Finish the conversation by asking for a contact method and ask her if she's interested in "going for a walk" around the town because you want to see a few things, like High Castle, City Hall, etc.

Picture your grandfather meeting your grandmother. It's kind of like that.

Dates are simple. Avoid going for anything too fancy at first. I've taken my girl on only a handful of fancy dates, just because I didn't want to. Going for walks is always a winner, especially when it's nice out. You can go for drinks, but she may or may not be into that depending on what kind of girl she is. Even something as simple as meeting for a tea for an hour can be fun and exciting if there is real chemistry.

If you want suggestions on particular dates, you can DM me. Some favorites are, as I previously mentioned, walking to High Castle, climbing a ton of steps to get to the top of city hall, drinks at Wine Room, as well as plenty of cool, Soviet era parks around the town that are nice for walking dates.

The relationship just kind of happens after this...if she's a good girl, she's just going to expect you to be dating her after things get a little bit physical.

Sex with the traditional girls is obviously going to take longer. I suggest going for it at a comfortable pace, although being okay with getting turned down. Show interest. She likes that. She'll turn you down. She also likes that. It's important that you keep trying.

Maintaining the traditional girls is easy. Don't be a fuckup. Don't be a faggot. Show initiative towards life. Again, think of your grandmother in the 1950's meeting your grandfather. Dressing well and working out helps. Don't skip this part.

Be a masculine man with a strong frame who makes enough money to take her on cute little dates. You don't have to be a provider. Having your own place is a huge leg up on all the other guys in the town. It's not hard. Once you're in, you're in.

There's plenty of sluts here. The problem is lots of them don't speak English because, well, they're lower class uneducated whores. You can find most of them at Malevich during the week. That being said, they can be quite attractive regardless. I always had a trickier time with those ones as I'm a conversational kind of guy.

Despite what everyone says, fire up a dating app and if you are a good looking guy who dresses well and works out, you can pull girls who will give it up in three dates, who speak moderate enough English. Lviv is becoming increasingly more cosmopolitan, and there's plenty of girls who idolize the West and sometimes visit Barcelona, Berlin, etc. These girls are typically 7's.

The demographic of girls I was least successful with, sadly, were the 9's and 10's. As a previous writer mentioned, these girls can be quite haughty and stuck up. Often, these girls come from wealthier families who give them plenty of extra money to invest into clothes, appearance, etc. While they look really good, they're kind of drab to hang around with and not exactly my favorites. I also tend to think that as a slavic man myself, I didn't have much of the exotic foreigner advantage as I do in other places.

That being said, they're racist as hell. Some girls like Turkish guys, but they've looked down upon heavily by everyone. I wouldn't come here as a black man either.

It's a great town for relationships, not a great town for banging everything, though it can be done.

Regarding age, it's a 5 year difference. Despite the stereotype, I don't see the "young girl old man" type of thing here much.

But, I do know plenty of 30 year olds with younger 20's girlfriends. Try it regardless. I'd imagine the stigma here is less than other places.
(This post was last modified: 03-21-2019 11:54 AM by ArloDash.)
03-21-2019 11:50 AM
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Buddydowrongright2 Offline
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RE: The Complete 2019 Lviv Datasheet
+1, thanks for the report. Good stuff. I don't think I'll be staying long term in Ukraine any time soon but I've always wanted to visit Lviv for a sightseeing weekend. Maybe later this year.

"If you're gonna raise a ruckus, one word of advice: if you're gonna do wrong, buddy, do wrong right."
03-21-2019 11:58 AM
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Post: #14
RE: The Complete 2019 Lviv Datasheet
(03-21-2019 11:50 AM)ArloDash Wrote:  
(03-21-2019 11:34 AM)diego69 Wrote:  Great report @ArloDash +1.
As I am focused on LTR those days, and 19 yo cute virgin sounds very interesting option, may I ask: you mention day game- but can describe the full process, dates etc. of how yo get into relationship? what is the age difference between you? and also how did you maintain her for long term?
I can pull in some cases those ages but its normally the promicoious club type girls and after a night of drinking, and it will be ONS (or maybe 1-2 times more) and I wont be able to maintain them for LTR.

Lviv is a student town, so you get lots of girls who come from the villages. You also have the born and raised Lviv girls too. Regardless, it's a small town. This influences your game strategy.

Day game is simple. Approach and ask if they speak English. Drop bait that you're visiting from abroad and are interested in seeing the town. Ask her if she's from the town, show a little interest. You may deal with the cold, standoffish Ukrainian girl vibe (which is completely okay, this is a good thing really, she's suspicious of you as she should be). If so, keep talking. Bang Ukraine goes into great depth about how to converse with them. Most of the time, sarcasm isn't understood and the conversations have to be basic.

You might also get the warmer, more Polish vibe as Lviv is right on the border. If you do, good on you. I did.

Finish the conversation by asking for a contact method and ask her if she's interested in "going for a walk" around the town because you want to see a few things, like High Castle, City Hall, etc.

Picture your grandfather meeting your grandmother. It's kind of like that.

Dates are simple. Avoid going for anything too fancy at first. I've taken my girl on only a handful of fancy dates, just because I didn't want to. Going for walks is always a winner, especially when it's nice out. You can go for drinks, but she may or may not be into that depending on what kind of girl she is. Even something as simple as meeting for a tea for an hour can be fun and exciting if there is real chemistry.

If you want suggestions on particular dates, you can DM me. Some favorites are, as I previously mentioned, walking to High Castle, climbing a ton of steps to get to the top of city hall, drinks at Wine Room, as well as plenty of cool, Soviet era parks around the town that are nice for walking dates.

The relationship just kind of happens after this...if she's a good girl, she's just going to expect you to be dating her after things get a little bit physical.

Sex with the traditional girls is obviously going to take longer. I suggest going for it at a comfortable pace, although being okay with getting turned down. Show interest. She likes that. She'll turn you down. She also likes that. It's important that you keep trying.

Maintaining the traditional girls is easy. Don't be a fuckup. Don't be a faggot. Show initiative towards life. Again, think of your grandmother in the 1950's meeting your grandfather. Dressing well and working out helps. Don't skip this part.

Be a masculine man with a strong frame who makes enough money to take her on cute little dates. You don't have to be a provider. Having your own place is a huge leg up on all the other guys in the town. It's not hard. Once you're in, you're in.

There's plenty of sluts here. The problem is lots of them don't speak English because, well, they're lower class uneducated whores. You can find most of them at Malevich during the week. That being said, they can be quite attractive regardless. I always had a trickier time with those ones as I'm a conversational kind of guy.

Despite what everyone says, fire up a dating app and if you are a good looking guy who dresses well and works out, you can pull girls who will give it up in three dates, who speak moderate enough English. Lviv is becoming increasingly more cosmopolitan, and there's plenty of girls who idolize the West and sometimes visit Barcelona, Berlin, etc. These girls are typically 7's.

The demographic of girls I was least successful with, sadly, were the 9's and 10's. As a previous writer mentioned, these girls can be quite haughty and stuck up. Often, these girls come from wealthier families who give them plenty of extra money to invest into clothes, appearance, etc. While they look really good, they're kind of drab to hang around with and not exactly my favorites. I also tend to think that as a slavic man myself, I didn't have much of the exotic foreigner advantage as I do in other places.

That being said, they're racist as hell. Some girls like Turkish guys, but they've looked down upon heavily by everyone. I wouldn't come here as a black man either.

It's a great town for relationships, not a great town for banging everything, though it can be done.

Regarding age, it's a 5 year difference. Despite the stereotype, I don't see the "young girl old man" type of thing here much.

But, I do know plenty of 30 year olds with younger 20's girlfriends. Try it regardless. I'd imagine the stigma here is less than other places.

This is the second time you said you wouldn't go to Lviv as a Black man. Care to elaborate? Are you just assuming or do you have some actual experience?

"I'm not afraid of dying, I'm afraid of not trying. Everyday hit every wave, like I'm Hawaiian"
(This post was last modified: 03-23-2019 03:32 PM by azulsombra.)
03-23-2019 03:29 PM
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ArloDash Offline
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RE: The Complete 2019 Lviv Datasheet
(03-23-2019 03:29 PM)azulsombra Wrote:  
(03-21-2019 11:50 AM)ArloDash Wrote:  
(03-21-2019 11:34 AM)diego69 Wrote:  Great report @ArloDash +1.
As I am focused on LTR those days, and 19 yo cute virgin sounds very interesting option, may I ask: you mention day game- but can describe the full process, dates etc. of how yo get into relationship? what is the age difference between you? and also how did you maintain her for long term?
I can pull in some cases those ages but its normally the promicoious club type girls and after a night of drinking, and it will be ONS (or maybe 1-2 times more) and I wont be able to maintain them for LTR.

Lviv is a student town, so you get lots of girls who come from the villages. You also have the born and raised Lviv girls too. Regardless, it's a small town. This influences your game strategy.

Day game is simple. Approach and ask if they speak English. Drop bait that you're visiting from abroad and are interested in seeing the town. Ask her if she's from the town, show a little interest. You may deal with the cold, standoffish Ukrainian girl vibe (which is completely okay, this is a good thing really, she's suspicious of you as she should be). If so, keep talking. Bang Ukraine goes into great depth about how to converse with them. Most of the time, sarcasm isn't understood and the conversations have to be basic.

You might also get the warmer, more Polish vibe as Lviv is right on the border. If you do, good on you. I did.

Finish the conversation by asking for a contact method and ask her if she's interested in "going for a walk" around the town because you want to see a few things, like High Castle, City Hall, etc.

Picture your grandfather meeting your grandmother. It's kind of like that.

Dates are simple. Avoid going for anything too fancy at first. I've taken my girl on only a handful of fancy dates, just because I didn't want to. Going for walks is always a winner, especially when it's nice out. You can go for drinks, but she may or may not be into that depending on what kind of girl she is. Even something as simple as meeting for a tea for an hour can be fun and exciting if there is real chemistry.

If you want suggestions on particular dates, you can DM me. Some favorites are, as I previously mentioned, walking to High Castle, climbing a ton of steps to get to the top of city hall, drinks at Wine Room, as well as plenty of cool, Soviet era parks around the town that are nice for walking dates.

The relationship just kind of happens after this...if she's a good girl, she's just going to expect you to be dating her after things get a little bit physical.

Sex with the traditional girls is obviously going to take longer. I suggest going for it at a comfortable pace, although being okay with getting turned down. Show interest. She likes that. She'll turn you down. She also likes that. It's important that you keep trying.

Maintaining the traditional girls is easy. Don't be a fuckup. Don't be a faggot. Show initiative towards life. Again, think of your grandmother in the 1950's meeting your grandfather. Dressing well and working out helps. Don't skip this part.

Be a masculine man with a strong frame who makes enough money to take her on cute little dates. You don't have to be a provider. Having your own place is a huge leg up on all the other guys in the town. It's not hard. Once you're in, you're in.

There's plenty of sluts here. The problem is lots of them don't speak English because, well, they're lower class uneducated whores. You can find most of them at Malevich during the week. That being said, they can be quite attractive regardless. I always had a trickier time with those ones as I'm a conversational kind of guy.

Despite what everyone says, fire up a dating app and if you are a good looking guy who dresses well and works out, you can pull girls who will give it up in three dates, who speak moderate enough English. Lviv is becoming increasingly more cosmopolitan, and there's plenty of girls who idolize the West and sometimes visit Barcelona, Berlin, etc. These girls are typically 7's.

The demographic of girls I was least successful with, sadly, were the 9's and 10's. As a previous writer mentioned, these girls can be quite haughty and stuck up. Often, these girls come from wealthier families who give them plenty of extra money to invest into clothes, appearance, etc. While they look really good, they're kind of drab to hang around with and not exactly my favorites. I also tend to think that as a slavic man myself, I didn't have much of the exotic foreigner advantage as I do in other places.

That being said, they're racist as hell. Some girls like Turkish guys, but they've looked down upon heavily by everyone. I wouldn't come here as a black man either.

It's a great town for relationships, not a great town for banging everything, though it can be done.

Regarding age, it's a 5 year difference. Despite the stereotype, I don't see the "young girl old man" type of thing here much.

But, I do know plenty of 30 year olds with younger 20's girlfriends. Try it regardless. I'd imagine the stigma here is less than other places.

This is the second time you said you wouldn't go to Lviv as a Black man. Care to elaborate? Are you just assuming or do you have some actual experience?

It's a more racist culture in the small towns of Ukraine. They say the word "nigger" and "monkey" a lot. No, I do not condone this activity, but it's what happens.
03-23-2019 10:48 PM
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BangBoy123 Away
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Post: #16
RE: The Complete 2019 Lviv Datasheet
A girl I know who has a black Ukrainian/African friend refers to her as "Mah nigger". Said girl doesn't have an issue, she was brought up in Ukraine so it's normal for her.
03-24-2019 04:47 AM
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Giacomo Casanova Away
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Post: #17
RE: The Complete 2019 Lviv Datasheet
Wonderful report, from my experience having visited Lviv numerous times, its absolutely close to the truth. Its a place where you go when you want to step down from a fancy and tiring lifestyle. Traditional girls, not easy, but worth to spend time.
03-24-2019 05:13 AM
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RE: The Complete 2019 Lviv Datasheet
As a black guy I recently spent close to 3 months in Lviv through the winter. I’m away now because my 90 days were just about up. I had no problems with racism, at least not overtly. I believe most of any ignorant comments are made either by the true idiots or out of benign ignorance. No, not everyone will like you but most are just curious and will warm up one they get to know you and you become a somewhat of a fixture. You will get stared at a bit, but don’t take it personal or automatically blame it on racism. I made a few great friends and can’t wait to get back. The only reason I might prefer Kiev is for the same reasons mentioned above...it’s so easy to live in Lviv that it can make a person a bit lazy. Right now I’m spending time in other parts is Central/Eastern Europe, but can’t wait to get back in a couple of months.

If you want a more Western style cocktail bar PM me. There are a couple venturing out and trying to break the “table” mode.
(This post was last modified: 03-25-2019 03:54 AM by coopers317.)
03-25-2019 03:37 AM
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coopers317 Offline
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RE: The Complete 2019 Lviv Datasheet
(03-21-2019 11:50 AM)ArloDash Wrote:  That being said, they're racist as hell. Some girls like Turkish guys, but they've looked down upon heavily by everyone. I wouldn't come here as a black man either.

I know this is not a race thread, but since it was brought up here I wanted to address this point here and more directly. I don’t think the OP is being misleading. However, it is his perspective, his honest experience, and maybe even what he hears. I would offer a different perspective. In my experience and very unscientific viewpoint, if you take 10 random girls in Lviv and present them with the question here is how I would categorize them.

- 6 or 7 are probably telling you the truth. Most truly never would, but perhaps even 1 of of the 7 never gave it a thought until the question was asked and so in that moment gave an emphatic NO.

- 2 are probably either somewhat or very curious and have given it a thought, but have never met a black guy or had the opportunity. But they have seen them on television, music videos, and the movies. This accounts for a lot of the eye-raping stares.

- 1 is just flat out lying. She would.

However, in that moment they all say “oh no, I would never...!”

Think about it for a moment, these girls all live in a very homogeneous country where all of their dating and social prospects are of a similar flavor. Even the odds of her meeting a black guy in her city to date is relatively small. Of what advantage is it to her to even admit to you that she would even think about it? None. There is no upside. She would never dare to contemplate it in that moment in front of her boyfriend, potential boyfriend, or even among her social group.

My experience is only anecdotal, but if I see 5 black guys in Lviv:

- 3 are with their girl (many times both African students)
- 1 will be solo (but doesn't mean he doesn't have a girl somewhere),
- and 1 would be with a Ukrainian girlfriend.

Adjust these numbers for Kiev...or not. As a black guy you will be a bit less exotic in Kiev, but the girls are somewhat more liberal and open. So the numbers could offset each other.

I’m not sure I can count my own experience this last winter in Lviv as the girl I was with was from the eastern part of Ukraine and came to stay with me for much of the time I was in Lviv. She temporarily worked remotely and used the WiFi at the apartment. In between her work I was getting at least 3 home cooked square meals daily and smashing at will. I was in hibernation mode as far as going out too much and I suspect she wanted to make sure she was keeping me locked down.

We did walk a lot arm in arm or holding hands when out, almost annoying so. As I said though, this experience probably does not count in this context as she was away from her social circle and in a different city.

Bottom line: You will not bat 10 for 10. But if you are black, in shape, and dress with a bit of style, 1 maybe 2 of the 10 will become heat-seeking missiles, and you are the heat.
(This post was last modified: 03-26-2019 05:53 AM by coopers317.)
03-26-2019 05:51 AM
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RE: The Complete 2019 Lviv Datasheet
Yes Lviv is a lazy city, walking round and around Ploscha Rynok consuming endlessly. I keep a lot more excess weight off my body in Kiev due to the amount of walking you need to do.

A black guy can do alright there, especially if he has some status. There is a short black guy who DJ's at Malevich club, he looks like a black Gargoyle, but last time I saw he had some attractive girl about 6 inches taller than him. There are a reasonable amount of African students study medicine in Lviv.
03-26-2019 09:28 AM
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ArloDash Offline
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RE: The Complete 2019 Lviv Datasheet
(03-26-2019 05:51 AM)coopers317 Wrote:  
(03-21-2019 11:50 AM)ArloDash Wrote:  That being said, they're racist as hell. Some girls like Turkish guys, but they've looked down upon heavily by everyone. I wouldn't come here as a black man either.

I know this is not a race thread, but since it was brought up here I wanted to address this point here and more directly. I don’t think the OP is being misleading. However, it is his perspective, his honest experience, and maybe even what he hears. I would offer a different perspective. In my experience and very unscientific viewpoint, if you take 10 random girls in Lviv and present them with the question here is how I would categorize them.

- 6 or 7 are probably telling you the truth. Most truly never would, but perhaps even 1 of of the 7 never gave it a thought until the question was asked and so in that moment gave an emphatic NO.

- 2 are probably either somewhat or very curious and have given it a thought, but have never met a black guy or had the opportunity. But they have seen them on television, music videos, and the movies. This accounts for a lot of the eye-raping stares.

- 1 is just flat out lying. She would.

However, in that moment they all say “oh no, I would never...!”

Think about it for a moment, these girls all live in a very homogeneous country where all of their dating and social prospects are of a similar flavor. Even the odds of her meeting a black guy in her city to date is relatively small. Of what advantage is it to her to even admit to you that she would even think about it? None. There is no upside. She would never dare to contemplate it in that moment in front of her boyfriend, potential boyfriend, or even among her social group.

My experience is only anecdotal, but if I see 5 black guys in Lviv:

- 3 are with their girl (many times both African students)
- 1 will be solo (but doesn't mean he doesn't have a girl somewhere),
- and 1 would be with a Ukrainian girlfriend.

Adjust these numbers for Kiev...or not. As a black guy you will be a bit less exotic in Kiev, but the girls are somewhat more liberal and open. So the numbers could offset each other.

I’m not sure I can count my own experience this last winter in Lviv as the girl I was with was from the eastern part of Ukraine and came to stay with me for much of the time I was in Lviv. She temporarily worked remotely and used the WiFi at the apartment. In between her work I was getting at least 3 home cooked square meals daily and smashing at will. I was in hibernation mode as far as going out too much and I suspect she wanted to make sure she was keeping me locked down.

We did walk a lot arm in arm or holding hands when out, almost annoying so. As I said though, this experience probably does not count in this context as she was away from her social circle and in a different city.

Bottom line: You will not bat 10 for 10. But if you are black, in shape, and dress with a bit of style, 1 maybe 2 of the 10 will become heat-seeking missiles, and you are the heat.

All good points. I only speak from what my black friends there had told me.
03-26-2019 10:41 AM
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coopers317 Offline
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Post: #22
RE: The Complete 2019 Lviv Datasheet
(03-26-2019 10:41 AM)ArloDash Wrote:  All good points. I only speak from what my black friends there had told me.

No problem...just adding my 2 cents to the thread.
03-26-2019 11:33 AM
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BlackFriar Offline
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Post: #23
RE: The Complete 2019 Lviv Datasheet
Good thread. I was there a few years ago. I liked it.
04-02-2019 02:29 AM
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