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Diagnose this Game Problem
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griffinmill Offline
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Post: #1
Diagnose this Game Problem
Disclaimer: I usually bang girls on the 1st or 2nd date, especially from Tinder. My usual system is drinks on the first date and then back to mine or hers on the second if there is no lay on the first date. But as you'll see I broke some rules this time.

This girl is 23 (I'm 40 but she thinks I'm 33). Texted off and on for about two weeks before meeting, building comfort and rapport. I seldom do this, but the girl was cool, fun, literate. I kept the texting down to once or twice every two days.

First date was a drinks date. Two venue changes over 3 hours. Got back to hers, escalated but hit a wall after getting my hands inside her pants. She stands up and walks me to the door.

In hindsight I could've gotten the lay but my rule is never to push things; I seldom have to. But I always kick myself later with these near-misses.

I rolled off for 24 hours. She initiates a pretty long text saying how much she likes me, sorry for not letting me go all the way, but hated the fact she had to text first, and thought I was rejecting her. She asked if I thought she was a good kisser; so much qualification and approval-seeking on her part.

So far, so good.

Set up another date for midweek (probably my first error as she had to get up for work the next day). I was nonchalant about missteps because her interest level appeared so high. Went out for coffee and ice-cream. Two hour date, dropped her home but was not invited inside. Make-out in the car. This date was on her territory. I live 30 miles away, otherwise I'd have had her back at mine. Crucially, little kino on this date because of how we had been sitting. Another mistake I seldom make.

Before this midweek date she had talked explicitly about a "non-PG date at the weekend" which I had little doubt was happening, so I relaxed knowing how high this girl's level of investment was, and just went for don't-fuck-up game.

Rolled off for 72 hours, and she hadn't texted. I was hoping for a "thank you for the date" text which I always count as a sign of respect from a girl I'm hoping to pursue things with. There was no text from her. I clenched my teeth and texted her tonight, knowing in my gut that I had been ghosted, and yep - no response.

To recap, this has happened to me twice -

D1: Make-out, get back to hers, near miss
D2: More innocent date with less heat
Then: Ghosted

I'm presuming this error has something to do with:

a) Rolling back on the momentum - strongly suspect this one
b) The long roll-offs I employed frustrated this particular girl

Thanks for any advice, and is this at all salvagable?

Thanks, guys!
(This post was last modified: 03-10-2019 05:06 AM by griffinmill.)
03-10-2019 04:56 AM
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Windom Earle Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Diagnose this Game Problem
So, to confirm, she was a bit butthurt about you not texting first after the first date, then you didn’t text her after the second date for 3 days?

If so, you’ve encountered a “fragile little ego” problem, present in almost all females worth fucking - easily overcome by taking stock of her initial advice.
(This post was last modified: 03-10-2019 05:28 AM by Windom Earle.)
03-10-2019 05:24 AM
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whatusername Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Diagnose this Game Problem
Quote:Got back to hers, escalated but hit a wall after getting my hands inside her pants. She stands up and walks me to the door.

Her ASD was activated. You escalated too much, too soon.

Quote:She initiates a pretty long text saying how much she likes me, sorry for not letting me go all the way,

She's trying to explain ASD. kind of lol

Quote:but hated the fact she had to text first, and thought I was rejecting her. She asked if I thought she was a good kisser; so much qualification and approval-seeking on her part.


She is kind of giving you advise in case this happens in the future with other chicks. You should have recognized the ASD, and texted her to deal with it.


Quote:[...]her interest level appeared so high[...]was not invited inside[...]she had talked explicitly about a "non-PG date at the weekend" which I had little doubt was happening[...]Rolled off for 72 hours, and she hadn't texted[...]no response.

She wants the D, but she doesn't want to feel like a slut for wanting it. This is obvious ASD imo.
03-10-2019 07:42 AM
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griffinmill Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Diagnose this Game Problem
Thanks guys for all the help!
03-10-2019 09:01 AM
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ksbms Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Diagnose this Game Problem
(03-10-2019 04:56 AM)griffinmill Wrote:  To recap, this has happened to me twice -

D1: Make-out, get back to hers, near miss
D2: More innocent date with less heat
Then: Ghosted

I'm presuming this error has something to do with:

a) Rolling back on the momentum - strongly suspect this one
b) The long roll-offs I employed frustrated this particular girl

Thanks for any advice, and is this at all salvagable?

Thanks, guys!

I won't directly answer your question. Your mindset does not want to accept statistical probabilities. There may not be any error with a), b) or any other factor. With many results observed, a number of them will significantly deviate from the mean, there's inherent randomness in the natural world. Over long time, you'll observe, in your outcomes, however, a regression to the mean.

You can make, right away, a number of experiments, tossing a coin and taking notes of heads and tails - over long time, the result will keep approaching roughly 50/50, but over shorter streaks, you can get even 10 heads in a row - quite unlikely, as the combinatorial probability is 1 in 1024 but it informs you that you should expect once every 1024 times such an outcome of 10 heads in a row. Same with your result. Things that seem improbable, do happen (all the time). You should appreciate statistical and probabilistic thinking more to get a fuller picture of why things that happen, happen.

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03-10-2019 09:12 AM
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Noir Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Diagnose this Game Problem
This girl probably wanted to hold you down and held her pussy hostage because she knows that's her only real card.

The whole theme of your post, viewed from her perspective is pretty much deciding if she wants to give it up to you sooner or later. In the moment of figuring this out, you gave her the option of 'not giving it at all'.

IMO you probably gave off the player/fuckboy vibe. The telltale sign was her mentioning she wasn't impressed with having to message first. For all the player talk in this forum, never has this ever worked for me.

I always send a message first, I really don't care and it's worked way better than not.

Too many guys are trying to play hard to get and making girls get out of their comfort zones and message you. If I liked her company, I will let her know.

Why?

Because I know a chick that's into me is fantasizing like a school girl and overanalyzes everything that I will set the record straight so her mind doesn't assume worst.

Post-bang, it's situational (first msg).

You had it in the bag when she messaged you first and qualified after date 1. Again, don't underestimate how insecure these girls are so when you play a bit too hard to get, they go cold.

It's evident you're fuckable based off my impression you're above average looks (bang on 1st or 2nd date) and you never really need to push things. No need to overgame or try hard. Just put a vibe out there and see if she fucks with it.

I have lost girls by playing too hard to get and not squeezing properly when the chance arose.

This is your 2nd mistake - you assumed that because she lead (and she did, post-date and here) that she would invite you inside. This is a shit test in itself, you just know this girl is thinking "if he really is hot shit and wants me, let's watch him work for it". You know all her friends told her, before this date, that she has to make you work for it, etc.

You were outside her house, you could have just asked to use her bathroom, suggested a cup of tea or anything. You did the opposite and kissed her- all the sexual tension dissipated. Even after you kissed her, you didn't mention that SHE IS A GOOD KISSER (ring ring, it's me, the message after our first date).

Anything, to get in to there. Kissing her is something 95% of guys would do anyways so don't be hard on yourself but you know you have to get in there.

For all the talk of aloof, its really on a case by case basis and player dependent.

Never have I ever gone on a date where I went further in the first date, than the second date, and managed to take it further or rebound, unless I saw the girl months/years later and the 'awkward' aspect disappeared.

It always needs to be building towards something, at least in her mind. It's the whole 'giving them something to look forward to' aspect of it.

You mention a lot of 'seldom mistakes' but too many seldom mistakes = failure.

When a woman messages you or puts her neck out for you, don't assume it's in the bag. There are situations where it's a warning, that you need to up your game.
03-10-2019 09:27 AM
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griffinmill Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Diagnose this Game Problem
Update: She has responded to my text, and we exchanged about four messages today. But the vibe is slightly deflated. I'm tempted just to try and clear the air with her, but I'm not sure it's salvageable.

Thanks to everyone who has contributed so far.
(This post was last modified: 03-10-2019 07:03 PM by griffinmill.)
03-10-2019 06:54 PM
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Alpone Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Diagnose this Game Problem
Noir is right on. I've lost more girls by being too aloof than anything else. It's my #1 game error. I understand with a 23yo it's probably better to play it too cool than too hot, but on the 2nd date you should have turned up the heat and not went on a coffee and ice creme snuggle fest. 2nd dates should be more personal than the 1st (meet at her place or your place).

But yea if the vibe is going south, I would do a reset. Ghost her, go on some other dates. Then re-engage with a funny picture/cat gif in a few weeks. Her reaction will tell you everything you need to know. Be prepared to cut this girl out of the line up if her response isn't 100% enthusiastic.
03-10-2019 07:42 PM
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Korrupt Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Diagnose this Game Problem
(03-10-2019 09:27 AM)Noir Wrote:  This girl probably wanted to hold you down and held her pussy hostage because she knows that's her only real card.

The whole theme of your post, viewed from her perspective is pretty much deciding if she wants to give it up to you sooner or later. In the moment of figuring this out, you gave her the option of 'not giving it at all'.

IMO you probably gave off the player/fuckboy vibe. The telltale sign was her mentioning she wasn't impressed with having to message first. For all the player talk in this forum, never has this ever worked for me.

I always send a message first, I really don't care and it's worked way better than not.

Too many guys are trying to play hard to get and making girls get out of their comfort zones and message you. If I liked her company, I will let her know.

Why?

Because I know a chick that's into me is fantasizing like a school girl and overanalyzes everything that I will set the record straight so her mind doesn't assume worst.

Post-bang, it's situational (first msg).

You had it in the bag when she messaged you first and qualified after date 1. Again, don't underestimate how insecure these girls are so when you play a bit too hard to get, they go cold.

It's evident you're fuckable based off my impression you're above average looks (bang on 1st or 2nd date) and you never really need to push things. No need to overgame or try hard. Just put a vibe out there and see if she fucks with it.

I have lost girls by playing too hard to get and not squeezing properly when the chance arose.

This is your 2nd mistake - you assumed that because she lead (and she did, post-date and here) that she would invite you inside. This is a shit test in itself, you just know this girl is thinking "if he really is hot shit and wants me, let's watch him work for it". You know all her friends told her, before this date, that she has to make you work for it, etc.

You were outside her house, you could have just asked to use her bathroom, suggested a cup of tea or anything. You did the opposite and kissed her- all the sexual tension dissipated. Even after you kissed her, you didn't mention that SHE IS A GOOD KISSER (ring ring, it's me, the message after our first date).

Anything, to get in to there. Kissing her is something 95% of guys would do anyways so don't be hard on yourself but you know you have to get in there.

For all the talk of aloof, its really on a case by case basis and player dependent.

Never have I ever gone on a date where I went further in the first date, than the second date, and managed to take it further or rebound, unless I saw the girl months/years later and the 'awkward' aspect disappeared.

It always needs to be building towards something, at least in her mind. It's the whole 'giving them something to look forward to' aspect of it.

You mention a lot of 'seldom mistakes' but too many seldom mistakes = failure.

When a woman messages you or puts her neck out for you, don't assume it's in the bag. There are situations where it's a warning, that you need to up your game.

Absolutely and perfectly summed up the whole situation here.

I'd just put it down to a learning experience to pick up on the signs better with the next girls, despite what the "game guidebook" sets out.

About where you are now, unfortunately, you've taken it to a stage where the power is now totally in her hands. Either you never message her again and that's the end or you do decide to message her. which will give her some level of validation that you are interested. You might get a date and a bang but in reality, you set yourself to jump through hoops if you ever do want to do anything with this girl now.
03-10-2019 07:55 PM
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RatInTheWoods Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Diagnose this Game Problem
I agree with the others, main mistake is not keeping up the comfort with a few lovey dovey texts. It would involve minimum effort and made the difference here.

You may still salvage this by provided comfort game on text. Not much risk and worth a shot as its definitely bang on the next date.
03-11-2019 12:50 AM
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kaotic Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Diagnose this Game Problem
Noir dropping knowledge here.

Thing is, it's TIME, as in you're rolling off her too much and being to aloof.

Chicks have options, they aren't going to wait around, the whole wait 3 dates thing is overplayed and dead.

The best way to avoid this? At the end of your first date - tell her "TEXT ME WHEN YOU GET HOME SAFE"

That leaves the next day for you to text her at your own discretion - you have to strike while the iron is hot.

You aren't losing your frame by doing so - frames shouldn't be so rigid.

Rolling off for 72 hours was a critical misstep here - you can't expect females to make moves like a dude or to make moves at all.


2nd date shouldn't of been on her territory, at maximum, meet halfway between you guys. a coffee/ice cream date while innocent won't fly.

You should've pushed for a cooking dinner date at your place or hers or something similar, pushed for the bang.

Rejection is always better than regret, and at least you know where you stand.

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03-11-2019 01:23 AM
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